Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

>Tau will strike first on a charge
>Necrons can now be an assault army

I don't want to live in a world like this.

Is there a way to get just the nuNecromunda rulebook, without having to purchase a metric fuckton of orks and terrain I don't need?

>I5
>I2
>Unwieldy (I1)

>tau bitch
>having full head of hair
>having eyelashes
>having tits
>having curves
They look like shrivelled old wrinkly balding japanese men with top knots

I may be unwieldy but that also means I have the most smashing power!

Then play 7e still - where is the problem?

>actual melee armies that used to benefit from their high initiative now have no advantage from it
Just when you think GW might turn things around, they come up with ideas to make next edition even worse

Literally when

I honestly wouldn't have an issue with charging adding +2 to Initiative or something instead of removing it.

It should only be +1.

Then they can have a very short simple rule that says "models get +1 to their Attacks and Initiative in a turn they charge".

Yeah, it's just SO GREAT in the current system where you can take all of the risks of charging, get shot in overwatch, and then strike last. It makes low initiative assault armies just so good. That's why Orks and Tyranids are just smashing the meta right now.

>Initiative being removed
Never was that even hinted at anywhere, stop the fearmongering.

Yeah, that'd be pretty neat. Otherwise i don't see a real point in playing any of the traditionally close combat armies.

When you are a male and having sex with female. At least I'm okay with this

Tyranids have high initiative. This change hurts them.

Except they won't do something logical like that, they'll just pull rules out of AoS.

Did the leaked necromunda stats have I?

Favourite 40k Podcasts? Looking for something to listen to. Already listen to Canhammer and Allies of Convenience (when they actually publish), and something else with a competitive focus would be interesting.

...

Yes let's break the core rules to buff Orks instead of just... buffing Orks.

It sure makes more sense for Orks charging my Genestealers to strike first! Fuck you.

>Implying tyranids ever get to charge at a unit out of terrain
>Implying tyranids ever get to charge

And no, it only hurts them if they're the unit not making the charge, and then it only does so for 1 round of combat. It's such a tiny change, if you're seriously going to charge at a good assault unit ,you're probably not the best player to begin with.

>What is Age of Sigmar

Not when charging through any terrain piece or cover to be fair

I wonder if they'll scrap terrain entirely. In Sigmar Terrain basically doesn't exist and you just walk over it and sometimes it provides casting or leadership de/buffs

Only on the turn you charge. Just like in WHFB.

Why exactly?

You think there is no conceivable way that charging Orks could ever, within the fluff, land the first hits on Genestealers?

First for Necron Trannies!

Dude your genestealers have like Move 7 and probably a "can run and charge in the same turn" rule, while orks have move 5, if you get charged it's your fault

So then they can change the rule for terrain instead of letting Guardsmen hit before Hormagaunts, Warriors, and Genestealers.

And it still hurts them if they're the unit making the charge because they're paying for higher initiative that doesn't FUCKING DO ANYTHING if they're already hitting first anyways.

I've always wanted to make a Blood Axe army that's been hired as mercenaries by some dubious planetary governor on the outskirts of the Imperium, who've taken to copying their human allies just a little bit too much.

Of fucking course not, do you even read the fluff?

Why do you think Genestealers are Initiative 6 and Orks are Initiative 2? You think they just threw darts at a dartboard to pick those stats, that they don't represent anything?

An Ork hitting before a Genestealer is like a Grot punching harder than an Ogryn.

>Genestealers charge into Ork lines
>Kill a bunch
>Next turn Ork player charges back
>Somehow gets to strike first now even though the Genestealers would still be faster than them

Finding opponents, etc. I mean, try finding a game of 4th edition 40k or whatever the last good edition of fantasy was (5th? 6th?).

>Implying everyone doesn't always move onto the new edition

YES! Ork Commissars!

Yes, it means that positioning to get the charge on your turn is meaningful, i.e. introduces tactical depth. Not to mention that it makes no sense in the current rules for a unit charging in, taking the risk to do so is effectively punished.

Or they could do both. Again, it actually introduces positioning elements into the game.

Age of Sigmar is the sequel game to the popular Warhammer Fantasy Battle. After a rough start, it received the General's Handbook as a large rules update last year that heavily improved the gameplay. It is currently among the 5 most successful tabletop strategy games on the market.
It does not have a rule allowing chargers to go first in assaults and has an entirely different assault system compared to its sister game, Warhammer 40.000.

>*Kommizar

>Dude your genestealers have like Move 7 and probably a "can run and charge in the same turn" rule, while orks have move 5, if you get charged it's your fault
This is a retarded argument, 40k isn't an RTS game where you can be microing the faster units to always be taking advantage of their speed. By nature of being turn-based it's going to catch things out of position - this is exactly the problem that initiative is supposed to fix by giving the faster units the edge of striking first as they should.

Then find people with same opinion about new edition as yours if it is so important to you
Then be the first one who stay in old edition and try to make your own group

Overwatch should halve initiative (rounding down) if you use it. Meaning you're more likely to be run down, and you've given up some of your combat power in order to use it. It means very high I means more since I6 strikes at guardspeed after overwatch, and I4 strikes with orks after overwatch, but I3 strikes after unless they don't overwatch.

Which they will have the next turn. Because Chargering units strike first, then follow initiative. You know like Warhammer fantasy. Like they said in the Adeptacon release. They aren't going full AOS.

Mea culpa

Yes, they had.

>Yes, it means that positioning to get the charge on your turn is meaningful, i.e. introduces tactical depth. Not to mention that it makes no sense in the current rules for a unit charging in, taking the risk to do so is effectively punished.
What in the fuck are you talking about? You are never punished for charging. It already grants bonuses - more attacks, more strength with furious charge, hammer of wrath, etc. It lets you actually make use of your melee attacks instead of the alternative which is not charging, not getting to punch things, and then getting shot at full BS instead of snap shot with Overwatch. It doesn't "add tactical depth" to make slower acting units unreasonably better and completely remove the advantage of faster things.

Because Genestealer fluff is always about them getting the jump.

>a large rules update
>large
>core ruleset are still the same 4 pages

>It is currently among the 5 most successful tabletop strategy games on the market.
Nope this top about miniatures, not games
Also
>AoS
>strategy

>all these stormtroopers have met horrible death at hands of daemons and red corsairs
Feeble humans.

They could change either the charging through cover rules, or the actual tyranid units by giving them rules that allow them to assault into terrain without taking an initiative penalty (why doesn't move through cover already do this?) and/or actually give their assault units their equivalent of assault grenades like they do in every other army.

The problem with tyranids is tyranids, not the assault rules.

>Mum, the kids won't let me play!
>Well honey, you just start your own friendship group!
>End up sitting in corner of field, alone, every breaktime.

Didn't work when she said it, won't work when you say it.

Adding a rules is not an update?
>Nope this top about miniatures, not games
Yes, it's one of the top 5 games in USA

If you want to be a salty troll than try harder at least. Also it's a 40k thread, not AoS

>Which they will have the next turn.
Assuming combat doesn't end in one turn and leave them stranded in the open.

There is no reason - absolutely no reason - for an initiative 2 unit to strike before initiative 6 just because they tired themselves out more first by running forward into the combat. Once they are both within striking distance it's going to be the ones with the faster reflexes and physiology that's going to get the first hits in.

This change better not go through or I'll just houserule it out and won't play games with the salty orkfags who want unfluffy rules for biased shitty reasons

Numbered post for post your models/most recent thing you've worked on.

Well, if you can't make something on your own then you are tied to GW decisions - I'm sorry user

Exactly. Just like the problem with Orks is Orks, and there shouldn't be some stupid blanket "hurr charging units hit first" rule fucking things up for everyone.

+1 initiative on the charge would be fine.

>You are never punished for charging.
Have you actually played 40k? I can't imagine anyone who's got more than 5 games under their belt going "yeah, dedicated assault units are fine". Until instant teleport charge nonsense came in, there were almost no units with any meaningful assault abilities seen.

>It doesn't "add tactical depth" to make slower acting units unreasonably better and completely remove the advantage of faster things
Yes it does, because now getting the charge matters more. They get to strike first for a single round of combat, at which point normal initiative kicks in. There is no example in almost any game other than 40k, or in real life for that matter, where a charge is not devastating. Initiative rules are currently broken because units can die before striking, despite doing all the work. That's nonsense. If you don't like it, tough - get used to it.

Overwatch should also use Initiative. Tau might be great shots and have great guns but are very slow. They should make it so that you need to win an Initiative check against your opponent to even get to Overwatch in the first place, if your troops can react in time. Give Orks a special rule forcing the opponent to re-roll that or give it a flat reduction on the roll as the intimidation factor they have or give them a bonus to it because They're really fired up! and Overwatch would be far less reliable.

Or tournaments, or organized events, 'nids players, Chaos Players, or against any one who ever played Warhammer Fantasy.

I'll just post an amusing Terminator I have. Word to the wise, industrial sandblasters are not a good substitute for dettol to remove paint.

>Adding a rules is not an update?
Mostly GHB added points and just fixed most obvious holes in rules.
>Yes, it's one of the top 5 games in USA
Nope it's top-5 non collectible miniatures.
>If you want to be a salty troll than try harder at least.
> if you dislike AoSofication of 40k you're troll
Go back to your general

>or the actual tyranid units by giving them rules that allow them to assault into terrain without taking an initiative penalty (why doesn't move through cover already do this?)
Because Cruddace was on the design team for 7th and used the opportunity to nerf Tyranids even harder after he already fucked two of their Codexes.

The guy is literally the saltiest dumb faggot in the field of game design.

>What are trukks?

dat realistic battle damage tho

Hey Warfags, Non-40Ker here and I have a lore question for those that are in the know.

Concerning Imperial Guard troops:
I understand they don't match up to a Space Marines or Eldar, but compared to your average imperial citizen are they basically Rambo or Captain America?
I know there is the PDF and a world's general militia/army below them, I assume that the IG are recruited from the best of the best- AND there is millions of worlds to draw upon. So while I understand a basic IG is no match for most other traditional 40k units in universe- that doesn't mean they are shit, just everything is better.

So are your run of the mill IG's basically near peak prefect soldiers? 90% accuracy, great reflexes, top endurance? Or are they no different than soldiers that you'd see in today's world?

So it fixed rules but didn't fix them? Funny troll, make some other tricks

Jesus Christ, user, what made you think they were?

>>You are never punished for charging.
>Have you actually played 40k? I can't imagine anyone who's got more than 5 games under their belt going "yeah, dedicated assault units are fine".
Your argument makes no sense. The problem is that assault is weak compared to shooting. Charging isn't more punishing than receiving a charge - once you're actually IN combat as a dedicated assault unit you're fine, and charging to get there is always better than being charged.

>Yes it does, because now getting the charge matters more.
It doesn't need to matter more, it already gives you more fucking attacks and a slew of other bonuses with the right special rules.

>There is no example in almost any game other than 40k, or in real life for that matter, where a charge is not devastating.
It's not if you're charging enemies who are more skilled and faster to act than you in close combat.

>Initiative rules are currently broken because units can die before striking, despite doing all the work. That's nonsense.
That's not nonsense, that's working as fucking intended, because the units that are supposed to do work and get killing done in combat, with a few exceptions, HAVE HIGH FUCKING INITIATIVE which is supposed to actually count for something.

>If you don't like it, tough - get used to it.
Fuck you, the same can and should be said more accurately to the fucking Orkfags who want the game to make less sense and fuck over every other melee race just so they can get a buff.

They are the best segments of a planets PDF and become professional soldiers. I wouldn't say they'd be rambo though as many PDFs only provide basic training so the bar isn't very high.

>People actually getting upset that Orks might improve

Like most things in 40k it depends from world to world, with some worlds having literally rambos running around and some just cavemen with axes and simple lasrifles.

It varies on home world and where they're drawn from but most of them are literally just bog-standard human soldiers drafted into service and given a lasgun and the instruction to use it.

Ok now at least you have a suited tyranids war veteran, I mean, he looks just as if he had gone eaten and then spitted out lol

I hope orks get monumentally better

The problem isn't Orks improving, it's the core rules being made worse overall to improve them instead of just giving Orks a special rule to give them an initiative buff on the charge.

>So it fixed rules but didn't fix them?
Yep because ruleset still full of poorly designed mechanics

Some worlds send the cream of their planetary defence forces to the Imperial Guard tithe. Some less loyal worlds send the worst of their planetary defence forces to the Imperial Guard tithe because they want the best soldiers for themselves.

Some have a lottery of citizens, or just conscript civilians and train them specifically for the tithe, or open it to volunteers.

Some just empty their jails or send arbites into the under-hives to round up assorted gang scum to be crammed into uniforms in the hopes the Administratum believes they're proper soldiers.

Some death worlds just announce they've got 800,000 places available for a one-way trip off-world and take whoever survives the resulting melee for the tickets.

>They're really fired up!
This only ever applies when its detrimental to the orks.

Depends on the World they're recruited from. Catachans are literally a regiment of Rambos because they grow up on a Death World. If you aren't tough, you're dead. A lot of these higher quality regiments have become the Regiments of Reknown that have become famous in the Imperium and have minis in the game.

However, the Imperium needs a ALOT of troops and there's nothing about quality in tithe requirements. So there are plenty of regiments that would just be normal human standard.

>nitiative rules are currently broken because units can die before striking, despite doing all the work.
Here's what will actually happen:

Your unit of I5 hormagaunts spend 3 turns footslogging across the board and being shot to shit, then the turn before they get to charge a unit of I2 necron warriors charges them and wipes the unit out.

Lol.

Have you considered the fact that my Boyz are dead 'ard, and your cockroaches are a pack of squishy panzees?

If it isn't at least I4 then its a useless fucking buff against anything you need melee for.

Varies massively.

Soldiers from death worlds like Catachan are all Cpt. Murica/Rambo tier in their abilities, whereas others, like Savlar Chem-Dogs are just violent criminals who are generally off their heads of narcotics at all times during battle.

You're making a lot of assumptions based on profoundly incomplete information.

>>What are trukks?
Bitch, have you seen what happens when you field trukks?

11 boys 1 nob inside a trukk.

Thing gets exploded, now you suffer 6 wounds, one on the nob, and one saved, 4 die.
Motherfuck, now you have to take a leadership test and fail it. Fuck, your boys just murdered d6 more motherfuckers (and for some reason they hit harder now then they do in CC.). 3 more die.

Now you're stuck in a shitty peice of terrain, with a 5 man squad of boys, and when you finally do get to charge, you get overwatched AND swing last.

That's not even helpful. Here user
>Dead 'ard! : Any model with this rule may make an additional melee attack at Inniative if slain.
Boom, Nobs aren't a liability, and do something helpful.

...

>showing that you are a 1d4tard who never plays fantasy or 40k

fucking
BASED

You could give Orks an impact attack similar to Dark Eldar cluster caltrops, to represent their charges being a wall of meat and spikey metal hitting you at high speed, so anything charged by Ork boyz takes 1d6 S4 hits before any attacks are resolved. Then they go back to being slow in subsequent rounds.

I don't really see any "obvious holes in rules" and "poorly designed mechanics" in this easy to start and play fast miniature game with 4 pages of rules but okay user - I understand that you prefer your 200 page rules game based on completely different mechanic.
They are both two different and separate things but I'm okay with your opinion - mainly because it's just an opinion, nothing more

We're just going to have to get the old ideas of Initiative out of our heads and no longer think about shit like "Ohh but a Genestealer is so swift in the fluff, an ork would never strike first"

In Fantasy a Skaven always strikes before an Orc, Skaven Initiative ranges from 3-5 most things being 4, Orcs are mostly 2 everywhere. this is backed up by the fluff portaying Skaven as quick but weak, and Orcs are slow but tough

In Sigmar none of this matters or exists, there is movement, leadership, and saves.

Orcs AND Skaven typically have poor saves/leadership

You want Skaven to strike first? charge them in during your turn, not much else can be done

>Scions
>Beating Eldar

The most unrealistic 40k art I've ever seen.

Custodes or Sisters of Silence Codex anyone?