Well Veeky Forums I'm basically making an irish revolution in a high fantasy setting...

Yeah, if you can make the Not!Irish headhunters and all around horrible people then you should be good.

And why Viking Irish Op just steal everything you can from the Tain and stuff and you will have plenty to make the Irish faction look bad.

Not all horrible just rob all the historical stuff like being able to kill the people down the road because they have a different last name while stealing all there cows.

I think the real issue isn't whether the players find the Irish guys morally repugnant. The fact is one side clearly has a lot of personality, and the other doesn't. OP's elves seem like a cookie-cutter Sneering Imperialist faction who just want to rape civilization into the world around them.

Play up the dividedness of the Irish then, the original Normans were basically mercenaries invited by a butthurt exile Irish prince. Make the Elves mercenary adventures invited by a noble to give him an edge but the elves realise there strong enough to tell him to piss off before carving out there own kingdoms.

i can understand not wanting to tackle sch issues, but nothing weird about making vikings rape, it's one of their more confirmed tropes.(like the other user said you don't need to make them see it directly, just see the afftermath, maybe even just suggest what was done,, like"they destoryed our house and my daugther, oh god, how could they do that to an innocent girl?")

Exactly. Give the Elves some justification for existing beyond just fucking up the Vikrish. Maybe some Greco-Roman aesthetic?

Also, maybe life under the elves is safer. Sure, you've lost cultural supremacy, but outdated practices like the wergild and weird pagan sacrifices are gone, plus a codified system of laws instead of cutting the hands off thieves.

Have the Vikrish have some weird custom like the Indian sati, maybe mixed in with the Wicker Man or the Blot. Read Charles Napier's quote on Sati, and make the elves like him.

this, an easy way to give a faction more appealing could also be the general sent there being very likeable for the players if you can make an interesting personality you won't need the whole faction to be appeaing.

No reason to go that far otherwise it just turns into bring light of civilisation against barbarian group 649.

Not if the elves also engage in some pretty brutal bullshit, like intentional mangling food supplies or doing some kind Janissary/Lost Generation stuff.

The elves aren't gonna be able to commit big evils or anything btw, mostly because they are a fairly large monarchy and all the other ones (Dwarves, humans, and the smaller folk) are always keepin an eye on them. I'm not quite sure how to justify them taking the place over though.

Make your players witness one of their human sacrifice rituals. Easy way to redpill them on the Irish question.

Give the elves good reason to have invaded. Maybe the Celtvikings used to launch massive raids, slaughtering innocent villages and burning down monasteries.

Remember the 'Rome always fought defensive wars' meme, or maybe china subjugating the steppe nomads

Make it a small lapse in Monarchical oversight, Some elves go on there little Irish adventure take a load of land before there Monarch takes a closer look at the adventures and starts sending over officials to make sure there not up to anything shifty.

Why not make it a battle between two good ideals?

If you just add something to make the vikings look worse, like "they fight for free speech and a future for their children, but they're also rapists", there won't be a lot of interesting discussion other than "should we join these good guys, even though they're rapists?" and that's pretty dull.

Possible weird shit that makes the Celtics Vikings a less obvious choice:
-Weird religion (Ritual sacrifice?)
-Destructive cultural practices (Cannibalism?)
-Racism (FUCK elves/dwarves/not-humans)

Can anyone think of other stuff? Maybe some king of oppressive social caste system?

Cannibalism might be a bit to far, everything else would be spot on though.

Would it help or hurt to make the elves a very religious nation? Like the emperor is often "god-chosen" and most things are related to their gods.

Would it be good/bad to make either the vikings or elvish gods actually be false gods?

Make the elves really sympathetic and genuinely kind? If they're being a bunch of arrogant dicks as usual, it's no wonder that the Galowglass want to be rid of them.

Have them both do shit that makes it hard to justify one or the other e.g the left are child murderers and the right will fuck the economy so hard it crashes as hard as the world did when Rome went to shit.

You have it the wrong way, OP. Celts are the elves and the Limey British Roundhead Bastards are the Vikings. Although, the Vikings had plenty of influence on the Irish, like the red hair, and the city of Dublin. But the English themselves are a Germanic people, the Anglo-Saxons. Most of Irish folklore is based on old Celtic myth, even the Dulahan. (Japs have it wrong on that one, they aren't just Celtic Valkyries. Neither is Morrigan)

The major problem here is that Vikings influenced both cultures, to a huge degree. But, using the idea of this war being something that's been going on for a long time, that could work. Going for so long, you can't tell who the enemy is so easily, they've been here so long. Just like in Ireland, the line shouldn't be so cut and dry. But if you're going to try and use real world settings in a campaign, make sure you get them right. The actual events are usually far more interesting than just viking versus elf, and can give a campaign better mileage.

While the mainlander elves are snooty imperialists, have a bunch of culturally divergent Elves who were planted in the irish/vikingland so they'd stop causing bother in Elfland.
They're not as snooty, and have become somewhat irish-viking-ised, but they've been there for several generations and will fight to the death to keep their new lands.

Well I think that settles that, since you guys were pretty helpful, you got any ideas for leaders? I need ones with exploitable flaws

The Elf is too convinced of his superiority to conceive of the other side having more competent leadership/planning and the Celtic Viking man is too invested in his family.

I like the viking man idea but I feel like the elves are already stuck up to much. Would being extremely religous be to easily exploited?

The leader of the !vikings is the Braveheart; a charismatic leader with good strategic sense, great fighting skills, and superior ability to rally his troops. A real knockout guy, that nobody really cares about challenging for that position (at the moment) because they feel he's best for it.
...until he disappears and the biggest, baddest, strongest brickhead from a long-rivaling clan claims he defeated him in combat to claim his honor and throne, with new strength or sorcerous powers that are mighty fishy but noone dares question, fearing for the loose alliance they have as is. Players tracking down the injured/entrapped/magically beguiled former leader optional.

Well, considering that religion was a major factor in the conflict, I think that might actually be appropriate.

Just make it like the actual Irish revolution: make the elves very civilized and (for the most part) gentle overlords. Have them give the vikings civilization, full citizenship, schools, roads, and everything they'd give an elf, and have the Vikings STILL be upset at that for some reason.

How about the leader actually being somewhat crazy and thinking his God is talking directly to him?

Maybe it was the fact it was all forced. Maybe it was giving all the English the best land. Maybe it was when you forced us to cross the river Shannon, where the only things we could farm were rocks and potatoes. Maybe it was how you belittled us. Maybe it was when you forced us to abandon our culture. Do you know why in Riverdance, only the legs move? It's so that when the redcoats come by, they'll only see the top of you over the fence, and won't shoot you for dancing.

Maybe it was how you were such assholes about the whole thing. See, the Vikings, the real ones. At least they were honest about why they came to Ireland. They wanted loot, and land. But the roundheads were just assholes, and pretended to be something else.

well theres and I believe that the British were quite against Catholics.

Is that definitely why the arms are stationary?
I'm norn irish, and I've never heard that, and a couple of my mates do irish dancing.

To be fair, as a prod you ain't wrong about the rest of the shit the brits gave yous

The most exposure to Irish dancing I had was when I was at a girl's birthday barn party/céilí, and I tried to do the whole dance thing.
The girl I was doing it with had to send me away for being far too pished for it. I have no ragrets

Vikings took a good amount of slaves and didn't see anything wrong with it, which should fulfil the bargain unless they're into slaves

How do I get more in touch with my heritage?

Or should I fuck off for being a goddam narrowback?

Calm the fuck down paddyfaggot. Firstly, I'm a Leaf, not an Anglo; you don't need to be an Anglo to be sick of the Irish.
Secondly, you guys didn't (successfully) rebel when there were redcoats shooting you for dancing. You don't get to play the Asshole British card when the Brits weren't being assholes to you.

I'd be more inclined to pity your situation if you weren't such cunts about it. "muh north Ireland" this, and "muh revolution" that. I get enough of that shit from the Burgers.

Just make the elves seem reasonable and advanced. Maybe the vikings lost a war they aggressed and that gave elves the land.

Well, it's what I heard, which isn't always the truth, but it's what they told me. Of course, the truth is probably less interesting, and I doubt they'd actually get shot for dancing. Probably just a fine.

You guys did it right. You waited, and waited, and when the time was right, you asked very politely, if it's not too much to ask, could we perhaps become independent? We'll still put the Queen on money, and treat the Quebecois like shit. (They aren't helping matters. Only Canadians who are assholes.) Honestly, it actually worked, and you didn't have to make any car bombs to do it. Where I live, we still get folks being bitter about the whole thing. I just like complaining, I'd never actually grab a gun and go shoot a Brit. I'm not the fucking Punisher.

And don't get me started on those asshole Americans. Usually they're fine, until Saint Patrick's rolls around. Then, for a whole fucking month, we have to deal with questions about green beer, and leprechauns. (If OP can make those bastards work in a campaign without going full Warwick Davis, I will eat my hat.) We don't even drink on Saint Patricks, we only keep the bars open for the tourists.

Dinnae start calling yourself Irish, for a start. Don't start voicing opinions about Irish politics, especially norn iron. Especially if you're in norn iron.
And honestly if you start calling yourself Irish, we're more likely to make fun of you than get angry.

I know that all sounds very negative, but if you say "My great-grandma came from Letterkenny" or whatever, it's cool, it's not a bad conversation starter seeing as we all know each other though never imply we all know each other, even though there is at most 1 degree of separation between Irish of the same generation.

Assuming you're a yank? Honestly I think you lot are loud and a wee bit annoying, but yous are generally nice people. I mean I've been to America twice and every American I've met has been pretty dead-on. Most people I know feel the same way I think

This, but take it a step further and have them cannibalize their weaker slaves.

Why do our people refuse to name the Elf?

>We don't even drink on Saint Patricks, we only keep the bars open for the tourists.

erm, what are the Holylands?

That might fit better with the elves, but I play Dorf, so my opinion might be biased.

Instead of going Viking, why not go Celt? Is it the "naked, covered in blue paint" thing that's so off putting? Or the preserved severed head in a jar of honey thing? I get it. Vikings are cool. But why not?

I am accepting that leprechaun challenge.

Nah, I just felt like vikings because my players recognize them and they have a much more easier design to plan an area around.

How about the Vikings are very socially stratified.
As in the Not!Vikings conquered the not!Celts centuries ago, and their society is currently Viking descended clans lording it over the native celts, and from which bloodline one is descended basically defines one's social status.

While the Elves are imperialist, they are relatively egalitarian, so long as you embrace their culture.
While "Old Money" are pretty prevalent in elvish culture, recent advancement has left a lot of room open for "new money" in the form of hard working merchants and industrialists, which could be any race in the Elvish empire

Good point. Common motifs, easier frame of reference, badass beards. Plus, great sailors, which can open up a game world.

I unironically loved the Leprechaun movies. I know there's a part of me that should be peeved about cultural appropriation or some such nonsense, but seeing Ice-T (or Ice-Cube, I always get the two confused somehow) go toe-to-toe with Warwick Davis makes me smile. But going full Warwick in a campaign feels like cheating. Also, never put the franchise in space. It never works, and it's always stupid. Remember Jason in space? Although the liquid Nitrogen kill was classic...

King, Jarl, Thane, Freemen, Thralls. These are not just words used in Skyrim. It wasn't a caste system, but it was certainly stratified, and the only way to move through it was either to make a name for yourself as a warrior or explorer, or lose everything and find yourself rowing the oars on a ship trying to find Newfoundland. Vinland, whatever.

>King, Jarl, Thane, Freemen, Thralls. These are not just words used in Skyrim. It wasn't a caste system, but it was certainly stratified, and the only way to move through it was either to make a name for yourself as a warrior or explorer, or lose everything and find yourself rowing the oars on a ship trying to find Newfoundland. Vinland, whatever.

As the guy who suggested that, historical scandinavia had democratic-based structure thingsgeddit?
But they were just for free landholders.

I'm thinking in this colonised land the ruling class are these "free landholders", while nearly all the not!Celts are serfs/thralls to them.

Hell, you could even have the not!Viking homeland as being more egalitarian than not!Ireland, just because there's more legally free landholders and the like.
Either that or not!Scandinavia developed like the real world while not!Ireland stagnated due to being a culturally divided backwater.

What should I do for the viking base? I'm thinking it'll be made of ships they raided kinda smashed and just nailed together to make a fort.

bump

Make them sadistic fucks with blatantly evil gods.
Like... In Micheal Moorecock, to summon their gods, the Mabden roast a cage full of slaves alive.

This