How do we solve the human male fighters problem?

Stop playing D&D.

What said. There isn't a "Fighter" class or anything like that because each weapon changes how you play.

You're still fighters
Deep down, you're all fighters
You can't run from your nature

Considering you're the only one who consistently refers to it as such, I imagine we start by removing your ability to access the internet.

What's the problem? If you want your characters to be snowflakes then do a game with premade characters.

Any beefy male character really should be replaced by a woman to make the game more fun.

>Unrelatable
>Manly badasses taller than orcs who do most of the heavy lifting and fighting and protect their culture

Yeah, your pathetic ass probably would find them unrelatable.

>Anyone I disagree with is trolling

Back to *eddit with you.

I want to live in your world where there's too many people trying to have simple, functional character concepts instead of a horde of tormented tieflings, half-elves who were spurned at birth, drow-celestial-orc-gnolls, and the one guy who wants you to read his novella of a background.

To be fair, it's best to spurn half-elves when they're young, lest they start thinking they're people or something crazy like that.

I don't know about you, but the worst character I've ever played with in that regards was a fluffy goat tiefling who was more of a giant ball of fluff and innocence than a tormented by their daemonic heritage 2edgy4u to understand their pain tiefling.

he was a pretty fun character to play with, mostly because the player managed to find a balance between to naive to live and too innocent to not adore.

Neck yourself.

I too feel the human male fighter shortage.

To the anons who say there is a problem, not everyone in this hobby wants to play an edgetastic furry fantasy that they can insert themselves into at a moments notice to masterbate about being pounded by a minotaur. Fuck off, fighters are good, your just shit.

And as always when someone posts this, we get a lot of people who're seethingly, irrationally buttmad about roleplaying games requiring roleplaying.

We started out strong with two people circlejerking about agreeing while not putting up a single argument, and then two people strawmanning by implying that everyone who doesn't play a two-dimensional caricature only plays parodic snowflakes.

Let's take it from the beginning.
The male human fighter is such a common concept because most roleplayers are mundane male humans who aren't criminals and don't possess the amount of usable skills that a rogue would. This means that the male human fighter is the closest we can get to a clear self-insert of the generic player.

But wait, you say. Aren't we talking about a role-playing game? The kind of game where you're supposed to play a character you made up, and in which metagaming is supposed to be taboo? Shouldn't that mean that the male human fighter would appear even more rarely than the snowflake machine, because it's not even roleplaying for most players?

These people are scared, you see.
Scared of being called weirdoes, scared of being outed for not understanding other people, scared of venturing outside their hugbox, scared of the very possibility that they might be expected to change even for a roleplaying game, scared of not being able to use their own life experiences to solve problems, scared of the very idea of playing someone who can do something they'll never be able to do and/or scared of putting in effort.

Rather than bother to make even the simplest character with an actual personality, they settle for what they know because they don't want to take any risks. They don't want to roleplay, they don't want to challenge themselves, they just want to sit in their hugbox and tell themselves "if I trained just a bit, I could definitely do the same as this 5th-level fighter".

It's a mix between a power fantasy and the fear of inadequacy. The person who plays Generic Human Fighter Who Looks Almost Like Me wants to feel powerful through playing a powerful character, but they don't want to play a character they can't identify completely with. They can't take the feeling of the power being taken out of their hands by playing another gender, another race (except for dwarves, which are just long-lived, cranky, beardy, short humans who look like skinnier versions of the players), a class that requires knowledge/skill or a character with another personality than themselves.
They're afraid of being called weird by their fellow nerdlings because they play a character who isn't the same kind of childish power fantasy as they play, or who has differences from themselves and actually requires roleplaying.
The Generic Male Human Fighter is a dream solution for these people. It has all the reasons that a puerile, insecure manchild would want to sit in front of other people and put in effort, if only a little - it's relatable, it's socially safe, it's easy and it's possible to imagine the character as yourself because their background is sparse and their personality is just the player's.
However, this results in a parade of the same characters over and over again, with a habit of solving problems in the player's way and handling things from the player's viewpoint. It causes group drama because the player can't divorce themselves from their character. it causes unrewarding or nonexistent roleplaying, it creates an unhealthy tie to the character because it's "them in game", it creates overly careful and metagamey gameplay, and in the end the effect is actually worse than just playing a boardgame.

There's a middle ground between "male human fighter without background or personality" and "fursona snowflake", and it's called "every kind of person or concept out there that's not a human male who hits things and only that".
There's nothing "creepy" or "weird" about playing a character who's not you in disguise - that's what roleplaying is. Create a character, detail that character, play it - every element that resembles you is a point you're not roleplaying on and thus a point where you're relying more on your own personality than your ability to tell a story, act or solve problems.
Snowflakes are bad too. They create characters who're "interesting" on the surface but have too few points to relate to, and they're mainly defined by how they don't interact properly with the setting rather than fitting into and playing off it. Because they're defined not by being interesting people and only by being special, snowflakes look interesting on the surface for some, but they end up being unrewarding and boring to play because they gain their specialness only from standing out.
People can self-insert and get spergy about it even when they're not playing a fighter - some people can imagine themselves as elves or wizards, but by far the most are most comfortable with the class they think they'd be able to do the easiest.
Get mad all you want, but I’ve been a LARP GM, played in dozens of different groups and known too many roleplayers – I know enough to say that the people who only play Generic Human Fighters tend to be defensive, insecure and irrationally protective of “themselves”, especially when they’re faced with the fact that they’re not perfect and would have to try to even get close. They’re the cheapest power fantasies out there, because even when you play a rainbow dragonwolf blackguard 22/winged disciple 12/summoner 30, you still have to at least make the effort to imagine something.

>human
>short human
>shorter human
>gay human
>green human

>fighter
>forest fighter
>urban fighter
>uptight fighter
>gay fighter

stop pretending to be alpha /pol/

>The Assassination of the Human Male Archetype by the Coward Bluehaired SJW

It's spelled "boipucci," dumbass.

I don't believe I ever said (you) were trolling.

The problem I've had is with the kind of player that presents himself at a fantasy table with his male human fighter and starts complaining about why is a AL adventure or a FR module so unrealistic. Shit son, the dude to your left can make the skies rain fire, but the tiefling rogue to your right is the problem?

That's what the combat feats are supposed to be for. Personalizing the class to a particular weapon.

It's just not good enough because no feats let you have as much effect on the world around you as a spell, and combat feats only help you be good at combat, meaning you don't have the tools at your disposal to contribute in any other manner.

In cape-fic, characters solve this problem by having better tools. Wonder woman is just a high level fighter, but she has a bunch of magic arms and armament to compensate. But in DnD, ALL the classes get magic items, especially the ones that don't need them as much because they get crafting feats easier if not even free.

As such, Fighters lag behind. The solution would be to either give them more budget, restrict the budget of other classes, or make them always have a discount.

what in fresh hell is "bwa-poochie"

This. Some of my favorite characters have been male human fighters.

I've played young, old, gay, and straight male human fighters. The trick is to just not self insert. And besides, it's not like players never self insert as wizards anyway.

So what's wrong if you as GM make characters for players? That fixes the problem and guarantees players need to roleplay instead of self-inserting.

Za Duchie comrade?

> The person who plays Generic Human Fighter Who Looks Almost Like Me wants to feel powerful through playing a powerful character, but they don't want to play a character they can't identify completely with.

I want to play Doomguy and punch and slash with swords because that appeals to me. There's no compensation involved, no insecurity involved. There are times when I just want to punch and slash, and not cast spells or shoot arrows or let bears punch for me. And you assume people just exclusively play Human Male Fighter for some reason.

Get your pop psychology masturbation bullshit the fuck out of here, that's the worst kind of posting by fucking far.

>You can't run from your nature

Fug

To be fair, sometimes they can be. But yeah, fussing unduly about wanting to make something besides yet another human when the campaign allows for it is pretty lame.

TL;DR

You're wrong.

Wizard is arguably easier to self-insert because they're fantasy equivalent of scientists and thus appeal average nerdy player more than a fighter would do. They're mechanically scary to new players though and I would argue half of this "human fighter" problem is actually caused by mechanics.

Human female fighter.

youtube.com/watch?v=N3472Q6kvg0

Wonderwoman is actually a demigoddess.

You take the responsibility out of their hands, drain their passion for the game and pressure them so hard it's practically impossible for them to enjoy the game.
In addition, that makes the game your story and only your story, where the PCs are tuned to be only what you think is interesting or that the players need to play.
Players will have a hard time self-inserting if they're not playing their own character, yes.
But on the other hand, it makes it harder to improvise, it makes it harder to get invested in the character, they might not end up playing what they wanted to, and most importantly they don't learn on their own.
They don't learn what makes a good character.
They don't learn what their own preferences are.
They don't have any control over the style of the game or the roleplaying they want to do.
They're babysat and looked down upon by a GM who ignores the players' role in the game completely, crippling their ability to learn, try, study, research and fail on their own.
Once or twice is good, and there are even some players who like to have the GM make characters for them because it throws them a screwball. Making characters for everyone because you don't trust them to be able to make their own is incredibly condescending and takes them out of the game.

I've always liked half-elves for some reason, probably because of Baldur's Gate. They're neat without being snowflake.

If you really don't do it to compensate, you could prove it a lot better than with an angrily defensive reply. You were obviously impacted enough by what I said to make you mad, which means that you have an emotional attachment to your way of playing characters.
If you want to punch and slash, you could punch and slash as a character instead of a caricature (you yourself used Doomguy as an example, which shows that you trust more in the Internet to make characters for you than you trust in yourself to work for it).
Psychology becomes "pop" when there's no actual weight, truth or theory behind it and it becomes just pure doubletalk and buzzwords. I don't get the feeling I'm wrong when it comes to any of those in your case.
You're not making a good example, you know that? Saying nothing doesn't make you witty, it only shows that you have nothing to say, witty or not.

What problem? I almost never see human male fighters. There's a reason one of the standard jokes about fantasy RPGs (especially 3.5 and its derivatives) tends to be that PC parties tend to be populated more by things that look like variations of Zelgadis of Slayers than by anything out of Lord of the Rings.

I don't see any problem with it. I've found fighters in 5e to be consistent, heavy damage. With backgrounds and archetypes in play they can be pretty diverse in and out of combat. Out of combat it weeds away special snowflakes which is always nice.

I think one of the mistakes of games like 3e D&D and pathfinder was to give fighters a very limited set of skills to work with. They can't do much, and that limits their options for growth and to highlight interesting talents. Then you throw armor check penalties and low intelligence on top of that so they're even worse at everything. Casters get utility baked into their spells, so it's not a problem for them. Giving 3e/pathfinder fighters more options would really open up the class, though I can't see the core of those games changing at this point, only house rules.

That guy's retarded in my book for the exact opposite reason. Fighters tend to be a bit underpowered, but you can make them work, and I like scrappy underdog types. My DM tends to run meat grinders, so I end up doing a lot of lateral thinking when I can't just hit it to death, it's fun.

Are human male fighters GOAT?

You have autism.

Because if players wanted to play someone else's character they's pick up a modern Triple A Vidya Game.

GM baked characters are fine for a one-off (especially when it takes half your newbie team two hours to make a character) but if you want your players to be engaged and willing to RP the last thing you want to do is tell them how they're going to act.

And that's the only counterargument you have.
See, you just gave a perfect example of "pop psychology" - only buzzwords and empty posturing.
It doesn't matter jack shit whether I put up more arguments than you think is "normal" to do, but whether or not you're wrong.
Thank you for at least providing a clear answer to that.

And yet gets all her powers from the suit.

Bracers of Deflection, wears a Returning chakram as a tiara, lasso with a permenant zone of truth effect, boots of flight, +5 Bodice with armored kilt, belt of strength.

Without them she's just a peak condition human with a lot of martial training.

>A huge wall of text to imply human male fighters are somehow less creative than your dragonborn fursona with enough weasel words to keep a doughty Canadian trapper employed all year.

I'm not even reading just replying lol.

But male human fighters aren't a problem, they are solution.

I smell a furfag.

>You were obviously impacted enough by what I said to make you mad, which means that you have an emotional attachment to your way of playing characters.
>you mad
Wonderful.

>Psychology becomes "pop" when there's no actual weight, truth or theory behind it and it becomes just pure doubletalk and buzzwords. I don't get the feeling I'm wrong when it comes to any of those in your case.

Psychology becomes "pop" when some halfwit on the internet whose never taken a class in his life decides to use what he saw on TV was "Psychology" to look smart and try to discredit someone else.

Here's a layman's psychological proposal; people like to hit things. Society does not like people hitting things. Tabletop Gaming provides you a safe area for you to pretend to hit things without real-world consequences. Some people would rather create a character that lets them hit things than someone with a complicated and troubled backstory or someone who casts complicated spells and has to remember all his DCs and dice rolls.

Freudian psychoanalysis is important for having started modern psychology, but if you really think every single aspect of human personality (...that you don't like) can be traced back to insecurities or abstract forebrain concepts you're an idiot.

>Thinking Aragon and Boromir are badasses means you like Hitler
>Using terms intended for feral canines later proven not to actually apply to their social structure.

Fuck off faggot and go see a shrink.

Why is there no martial god-spawn class? Sorcerers exist so bloodline stuff is a thing, and it seems so common in fiction, and would fix the fighter because no more "a normal guy can't" complaint.

Like, nearly every Greek hero is a half-God with some free magic items given to him by the gods.

Made for Human Housewives(Male)

Considering what the full-blooded elves got up to in that series, the fact that they're only half is certainly a point in their favor.

Pathfinder has Bloodragers, which mechanically are Barbarians with a small toolbox of combat-based spells.

Flavor-wise they're people who could be sorcerers but have decided to take a more martial route in their lives. They have "Bloodrage" and bloodline powers. I love the class, it adds some depth to the Fighter beyond "hit things in a different way" while still letting me solve the majority of problems with an attack roll.

The problem with having a "demigod" class that's explicitly better at fighting than the average human is that it would have to compete with the Fighter. If its better than Fighter than you've just obsoleted one of the core classes to the game. If its weaker than (or the same level as) the fighter, then how can it claim to be divinely gifted at fighting when just a mundane human picking up a sword and fighting can do better?

In order for your idea to work it has to pretty much be baked into the setting. Good news is there are systems like that out there. I know Exalted has the baseline PC power level be "blessed by the gods". I can't think of too much else, though, so you're on your own if you wanna look.

If there were no human male fighters, my lolipire character would have no one to smug at and endlessly tease

I say there is no problem

>later proven not to actually apply to their social structure.
Completely off subject, but is this true? Haven't heard of this.

Might be bait, but fuck it

This seems less like an argument against MHF and more like an argument over bad roleplayers. MHF has plenty of roles to take

>deserting soldier
>town guardsman out for revenge after his village is razed by bandits
>crotchety old spearfisher who lives out in the wilds
>combat instructor
>drunken mercenary lout who thinks with his wallet
And so on. If you wanted to discuss behavioral trends in bad roleplayers, you could've just said so.

As I remember it turns out wolf packs are families. The 'alpha male' is actually their father.

Yes, the original studies done on wolf social structure was done on a wolf pack in captivity.

Later on, studies of wild wolf packs showed they didn't that structure. In fact a typical wolf pack is a mated pair and their children, and status is based on age.

knowledgenuts.com/2014/01/11/the-alpha-wolfe-is-an-outdated-myth/

Please tell me more about your webcomic starring a katana-wielding half-demon-half-angel with one wing of each.

>Being this mad that the HMF got the princess and your tryhard elfbard didn't

>Get mad all you want, but I’ve been a LARP GM, played in dozens of different groups and known too many roleplayers

There's a point where it's obvious you aren't trolling and are just retarded.

This. Everyone who complains IRL about adventuring classics is some filthy, scrawny hipster with a gross beard or landwhale with wannabe anime hair.

Or maybe I want to be a human fighter because I want to be Lancelot, Roland, El Cid, Ajax, El Cid Fafhrd or Conan, which is every bit as detached from reality as you playing an elf wizard

I rewrote the sentce and forgot to erase one "El Cid"

...

You do not fix that is not broken

This. Wizard is THE bait for self-insertion neckbeards.

Irenicus did nothing wrong.

5e decapitated 3.5 and pissed on its corpse.

Yes.

You never gave any arguments, though, just projecting with a bare hint of purely anecdotal experience contained in a wall of fatuous text.

You sound like the kinda guy who would play a half-werewolf-half vampire trans drow multiclass made of like 6 different things.

>>combat-based spells
>SPELLS
See the issue?

>Pathfondler

Nah.

That's why I play paladins. All the fightan, and I get to preach about Freedom&Justice©

Nice autism, duder.

El Cid deserves to be there twice.

A Half-Elf Sorcerer (Orc Bloodline) 1 with the Half-Drow Paragon feat
and the Racial Heritage feat counts as a Human, Elf, Half-Elf, Orc,
Drow and one extra Humanoid race. Note that possibly this extra race
does not need to be a player choosable race. If you choose the Stone Giant race you can get access to the Earth Touched feat which lets you obtain much more spells.

>it would have to compete with the Fighter.

I'm very clearly implying upgrade/replacement. Regular fighter has no place in myths and stories. All of those fighting men have supernatural abilities afforded to them through bloodline or other cosmic shenanigans.

And don't say "but some are just basic humans" because Sorcerer has a "paragon human" style bloodline that makes you fearless and plot lucky, which is something that all those "just humans" exhibit.

Name a problem magic can solve and sufficient strength of arms cannot.

...

I'm not talking about Irenicus, I'm talking about the bitch elf queen who took everything from him EXCEPT his incredible arcane power and then dumped him on the rest of the world, thinking it wasn't her fucking problem anymore.

Breathing underwater

This image always captivates me for some reason.

Wasn't there a version with blue eyes?

Her strength doesn't come from anywhere, she's naturally super strong. It's one of several gifts she received from the fucking gods after her creation from clay, so no, she's not just a regular human. She also has mid-level super speed and reaction times, which is how she can deflect machine gun fire with her bracelets in the first place. They don't magically deflect projectiles, she has to physically block stuff with them.

Save a mermaid and receive kissu from her. Alternatively, be so beast you hold your breath a long-ass time like Beowulf.