Fantashits get wrecked by AoS patricians general

when the thing you like was made by destroying what the other person liked it's pretty understandable why they would be angry

I think this is the crux of it. WFB fans are salty that their setting was destroyed for the sake of AoS. They aren't blameless victims - AoS fans shouldn't be bullied for switching/enjoying a new game that caught their eye, but the animosity is there and deep and not really something that's 'irrational.' The logic is emotion-fueled and could be flawed, but it's easy to understand the reasons for the back and forth. No one likes being told to just go away and give up and that they no longer matter if they don't join with the new thing, and no one likes being shat on for just liking something.

I think both sides are shit. The 8th Ed/9th Age holdouts are grognards too stubborn to realize their game is dead. The game probably -did- need to make the jump to a beer and pretzels warband game.

AoS is just ridiculous though. It strikes me as a parody of Warhammer created for some TV show or webcomic. You pay 25 dollars for a single guy who looks like an 80's action figure and has a retarded grimdark name. have no idea how this is making money desu.

>The 8th Ed/9th Age holdouts are grognards too stubborn to realize their game is dead.

Fuck me for holding onto 15 years of investment, right? And the best thing is, my Army won't ever get new models, and even though I can technically play AoS with my existing models, or at least thats what people tell me, whats the point? Brettonia is gone, her fields are ash and the Lady is dead.

I honestly hope AoS does well, because I don't begrudge people for enjoying something. But GW will not get another dime from me and fuck you for calling people grognards for holding onto something they loved.

AoS is just 40k forcibly shoehorned into Fantasy, it's bad, and you should feel bad for liking it.

>fuck you for calling people grognards for holding onto something they loved.
It's pretty standard practice for the GWIDF whenever someone says they dislike something GW did. You can choose to engage someone in a discussion of mostly subjectivity which likely won't come out with a victor - unacceptable for a shill. OR, you can call them a grognard, in a nerd-variant of Godwin's Law, declare victory and move on.

It's annoying as shit, because it's like half of them don't have a sense of scale. If WFB was a two or three year old game that went under, you could call people names for being attached. My father had been playing the game for 10 years before he bought me my first model for my 16th birthday, and that was 15 years ago. My Bretonnia army is older than my son. Of course people are going to be miffed.

I just hate the art direction or style or whatever you want to call it on the new gw models they are catastrophically noisy to the point where it's a huge unfocused mess.

Attempting to paint one of these models would be awful all the excessive detail.

Can someone explain why people play Stormcast/Snorecast/Samecast/Borecast?
>OP in the lore
>great saves
>even their ranged guys have heavy armor
>only weakness was low movement
>Since posterboys need to be OP, give them the ability to teleport, making their low movement not a problem
>Literally has a unit for every situation
>all look same

Fuck em

>Attempting to paint one of these models would be awful all the excessive detail.
I do agree with this. I hate painting the Blood Angel Tacticals, they take fucking forever. I don't mind it with commanders and heroes and such; but I don't need a regular dude I'm getting by the dozen covered in extraneous details.

I just hate what they did with the Undead, especially the ghouls.

You have no honor sir.
Flesh eater courts are the left over brets

Fucking this.
I know you are just an attention whore, but kindly choke and die.
AoS doesn't need this. WHFB doesn't need this

at least us old WHFB players got Total Warhammer....$100 for base game and DLC's is still cheaper than converting to AoS. Even though GW is still getting my shekels

By the time they complete Warhams Fantasy it'll basically be starting a new army. The New World is going to be its own game (IIRC they're planning a trilogy. Hopefully #3 will combine the two if they're going to be dicks about it and not just make one)

I will forever resent AoS for destroying WHFB. I will also forever read the lore of WHFB and collect, paint and play games with the miniatures for as long as I possibly can.

You can go and enjoy AoS all you want. I don't care. But there is nothing it can do to bring me in and have me forgive that it killed a setting I love.

True, I'm still waiting for my fuzzy rat friends
but they plan to make an army for every major faction, so its the price of 1 army for access to every army.
Plus its on Steam, so ya know, sales n such. Already seen 50% off base and 25% off all dlc.

They are combining maps with first expansion confirmed.

Oh, neato.
So I guess the reasonable prediction then is (assuming they didn't already say so and I missed it):
First Game: What we got
Second Game: New World with Skaven, Remaining Elves, and... Orkz and Warriors of Chaos again?
Third Game: Further east with Chaos Dorfs, Daemons of Chaos, Tomb Kings, and Ogre Kingdoms

>Third Game: Further east and south in the New World with Chaos Dorfs, Daemons of Chaos, Tomb Kings, and Ogre Kingdoms
Fixed

>all look same
This is the worst sin IMO. A lot of the hate for the AOS could have been avoided if Stormcasts were only one type of unit among many in Sigmar's army.

DEUS VULT

It didn't kill fantasy.

other fantasy players killed fantasy.

Sigmar was a response to a shitty, toxic community.

GW wanted them to fuck off and stay fucked off.

So now the community is toxic? Man, I don't remember that at all being the 'reasons' fantasy died when fantasy actually died. Are you sure you're sticking to the right script?

I mean, the fact that getting into it was extensive as hell because armies had become bloated was a pretty fair point if we ignore the fact that there were always lower point games going on and the existence of an actual game using WHFB models that was essentially a small scale skirmish game as well as the large number of used, discount, and knockoff brand models.[/spoiler] Or you should stick to the fluff having nowhere left to go, that was true if we ignored the fact that anyone with a decent brain could keep the fluff going with support from all the works in the setting. Alternatively, the best reason WHFB died was because it just wasn't selling enough and no matter what anyone says the reason it wasn't selling was because it was just not popular anymore, not the fact that GW had done their best to not support it by dragging their feet and leaving entire armies in the dust, where stingy with their incensing for fear of a videogame becoming more popular with the game, and intent on marketing so little that some people assumed it died long ago.

Nope. It's community is at fault for killing it by being shitty and toxic. Two impossible to measure metrics that are totally subjective.

I understand a lot of people may enjoy the idea and how it kind of frees up the faction, and I can even recognize how fun it can be to have a faction that thinks they're sane and glorious when they're really not. But I think it feels shallower than the Strigoi who, despite their madness and primal nature (which is in strong contrast to the sometimes insane but generally decadent and intelligent vampires of other bloodlines), are clinging to the remnants of an ancient Empire, and are motivated by a desire for vengeance or regaining what they lost, compared to 'I'm mad you're mad we're all mad here.' Instead of their army being a menagerie of the scrapings and leavings of other forces made dangerous by the worst beasts of the night, and for AoS they end up making it a madhouse of whoever they touch.

Then again, I am biased as fuck - I did not enjoy the direction they took with ghouls, even back when they were still in WFB. The hunched over Gollum look did not do it for me - I was interested in how they were really only a step above zombies, but were unique for actually being living servants, not undead.

Played Fantasy, missed End Times, then started in on AoS because that was what everyone else was doing.

At first, I liked the game until the more WAAC opponents learned how to table everyone else on turn 2. Now they're ITC champions or whatever and just want to bend me over on the weekend when they don't have anything better to do. Fuck that, I'm out.

My other mistake was thinking the game was balanced like MTG did to their game recently. But points is like Open Play, only slowed down, IYKWIM.

I just want a dedicated Vampire BT instead of ANOTHER Stormcast one
I love playing Papa Nurgle, but i always have a special place for pic related and his faction

Except Mannfred

Fuck Mannfred

This shit is so fucking retarded.

WHFB is still there. It still exists. The lore all still exists. The models and rules are there.

Play WHFB. Who fucking cares?

$0.00000000000000000001 has been deposited in your account user, GW prime thanks you for your help in the information war against old models.

>falseflagging the thread

This is actually a question I've asked a lot myself, since old editions of RPGs are still played. I've never really got a good answer.

The best answer I can come up with myself is this: WHFB was destroyed in a meta sense. The game, models, lore and rules are still intact, but the people necessary to play the games were divided. Some dropped the game the moment the End Times ended and the series was apparently over; some people jumped ship to AoS, leaving people who still preferred WHFB in the lurch. There's no official support to add any sort of legitimacy, or to keep potential players interested - all there is is what is static and there, and there would be no new tournaments or lore changes.

It doesn't hurt that there's no unified agreement on what should be played - some play KoW, some play 9th Age, some still play editions of WFB - usually 8th or 6th. You'd think variance would be good, but lots of anons seem to have trouble finding people to play with at all - these choices seem to be made on an individual group basis, not enough to keep a whole community who prefer something other than AoS alive.

This is a difficult when the idea is to have several people with several armies to play with, and it almost has to be in the flesh. It's not like a videogame where you could have multiplayer with a buddy or even hotseat, or an RPG where you could scout out a few folks who want to play the same system online.

You can have all the models and lore and rules you want, but if you can't find someone to play with you, it's as useless as that stack of board games you only bring out when someone's visiting.

Never played FB, but AOS has:
1. Shit fluff (MOBA tier, maybe even worse).
2. REALLY shitty models (MOBA tier, maybe even worse, again). Newmale dwarves are fucking unholy.
3. THE most toxic community i`ve ever seen (weebs, mtg-retards and others have nothing on them).
Sometimes i think its all complex viral posting, memming - its just surreal.

The game was killed by lack of sales. That lack of sales had two main reasons- the aftermarket was so massive there was no point in buying brand new, and the community had very little in way of "pull", making it fairly stale compared to even 40k, let along stuff like Xwing. As someone who played since I was 10, in the last decade or so it was just plain shit to get into- large initial investment as you said, plus the existing groups tended to be pretty inbred and insular, and, in Europe, drooling morons with their "clarifications" and "european championship" mods made it even harder to get into it- you first had to learn rules, and then find out everyone was meta-obsessed and your list is shit.

On the plus side, they are now happy as they can be with the 9th Age, where no one can threaten their fanfiction.

I don't dislike AoS. It's a nice game for kids and people who want to play an excuse to roll dice without tactics.

My lad

We might not have formations yet but an all soulblight list is hella viable bud don't worry

Support it with some misc summoned Death stuff and you're extra good

The 'clinging to the ancient empire, motivated by vengeance or reconquest' schtick has sort of been taken over by Deathrattle, but I know what you mean. I miss the distinct vampire bloodlines, but they were already kinda doing away with them into small subfactions rather than distinct lineages in WHFB anyway.

Hopefully the Soulblight battletome gives us something to work with.

>if all you want to do is roll dice and paint figures then AOS is fine
>I preferred good models and a good game
>I prefer more grounded fantasy with more realistic armours and themes
>This makes me an asshole

you literraly discribed whfb.

Maybe, but i also described AOS. Ah yes:
4. AoS fanboys ALWAYS take any form of criticism as personal offence from "fb grognards". I dont even recall seeing single fb mini in my lifetime, to be honest. But i`ve seen plenty of moba-trash aos garbage, thank you very much.

no u

Nah. In retrospect WHFB sucked too. What has happened these days is the brass at GW has finally realized that they have always sucked at making their games any good and were always just selling miniatures. Luckily there is a tabletop renaissance going on... Sorry lads! it's not happening in Nottingham!

Damn straight
>double digit yearly market growth
>gw shrinks

I play Xwing tho.

Checkmate atheist

But GW miniatures have retarded proportions and fucked up scale. How is that good?

This has always been a shit argument, and another user has covered part of the reason that lack of official support is a problem.
WHFB isn't a game like chess, where a huge proportion of the world knows the same consistent rules and the pieces required are simple and cheap to acquire, and could be made by anyone. Warhammer games are an expensive niche hobby with a diverse range of editions and many specific models produced by one company that rigorously defends its IP.

GW releasing new editions of their game meant there was always a current agreed upon ruleset that strangers playing the game could meet up and play with. With the release of AoS, and even to some extent with overpowered armies in 7th and the stark changes to rules in 8th, the playerbase split between multiple preferred rulesets. There is also no longer a hope that GW will release an edition that everyone agrees shows better playtesting and response to player feedback.

continued
In terms of models people can continue to play with those that they already have, but many armies have already been discontinued and there is no guarantee that more won’t follow or become sufficiently unrecognisable that the models become useless for WHFB. Many companies produce cheap alternatives but a lot of them don’t quite fit with WHFB, and again there’s no guarantee that support will continue. If you want to add to your army or buy a new one you may struggle.

Finally, GW support and a unified community brought people into the game. It’s tough for new players to start an expensive niche game when there is no guarantee of how easy it will be to get the models and rulebooks you want, or even find people to play with. Over time this kills the game, as the playerbase shrinks from people moving around or dropping the hobby for whatever reason without more new blood to replace them.

>picrelated
>patrician

>tabletop renaissance
Wut?

>but an all soulblight list is hella viable
Nope

>AoS shitposting
>falseflagging
Yeah sure m8

It's not still all there though. The Tombstone Kings and Bretonnia have been wiped off the face of the story for one. This is flat out wrong.

>Tombstone kings
I have no idea why my tablet thought that autocorrect was necessary

>Story
And yet didn't catch this one. Store.

Its a thinly veiled WHFBfag "aos is bad" REEEEposting thread

Should be pretty obvious

>investment

Do you really think buying miniatures is an "investment"? That's really sad

Theyre not OP in the lore
They have above average saves, but not the best in the game
They've always had teleporting abilities. The new book actually makes them worse at teleporting.
They have a good variety of units but they dont specialize in anything. There are faster armies, better shooting armies, better defensive armies, and harder hitting melee armies.

>So now the community is toxic?
Have you ever met a typical WHFB player?

They're some of the least enjoyable people to be around on the planet

...

>Theyre not OP in the lore
>best armor and weapon
>immortal
>not OP
yeah sure.
>They've always had teleporting abilities. The new book actually makes them worse at teleporting.
>They have a good variety of units
Well that's already means a lot in game where most of armies are scions-tier armies.
>better shooting armies,
Only 2 and current meta based around shooting

They dont have the best armor or weapons
Theyre not immortal, the reincarnation process takes a heavy toll on their soul

Here's a list of factions that can make a better shooting list than Stormcast:
Seraphon
Sylvaneth
Freeguild
Bonesplitterz
Highborne
Dispossessed
Tzeentch
Skaven (Skryre)

If I'm being generous I could list Tomb Kings (Skeleton Archers + Ushabti + Catapults), Beastclaw Raiders (Thundertusk), and Warriors of Chaos (Hellcannons).

Kharadron Overlords also look to be a shooting-focused army, so it's very likely they will be better than Stormcast at shooting

Stormcast are very good at beating other shooting armies, but they need to rely on melee units like Concussors and teleporting in Retributors/Protectors to close out a game - Judicators, Prosecutors, and Raptors don't do enough damage on their own.

I never played WHFB or AoS but AoS just seems like they decided to scrap the original setting and create a new one which is intentionally made more like WH40K in the hopes that it will sell more than it used to.
They're alienating an entire userbase of dedicated people who played WHFB for decades only for the sake of getting their pockets filled with a little bit more money.
Seems like a dick move to me.

Your reading comprehension is mediocre.

I agree and am saddened every time I have to think about it

>They dont have the best armor or weapons
Sigmarite are the best metal in MR.
>a heavy toll on their soul
On their memory and personality yet still they didn't became something like Rubric marines, they turning into more celestial creatures (according to their battletome).
>Seraphon
Almost fireslayers-tier army.
>Freeguild
SCE units outranging all FG shooters
>Highborne
>Dispossessed
Not an army, without good artifacts, formations (and according to GW FAQ you still can use old SCE broken Deathwing formation).
>Kharadron Overlords also look to be a shooting-focused army, so it's very likely they will be better than Stormcast at shooting
Yep each new battletome is more powerful to push sales forward.

>Sigmarite are the best metal in MR.
Its not
>Seraphon
>Almost fireslayers-tier army.
Theyre high tier, lmao youre retarded
>Highborne and dispossesed are not armies because i said so!!!
okay kid

heres your last (you) i hope you make it last

>Theyre high tier
Nope, Sylvaneths, SCE, Tzeench and TK are high tier
>because i said so!!!
>what are Alligeance system are
Also
>unironically comparing armies without battletomes
>heres your last (you)
>i-i-it's the bait
Guess half posters of AoS general are baiting too.

I hate it because its such low-effort shite, the artwork is digital as are the sculpts and the whole thing comes off as some warcraft rip designed to snare teens.

The basic concept is flexible and it could be great but then you get khornes blood legion of bloody skulls that live in the land of the blood skull mountains, armed with their skull taking blood blades.

Nice bait.

I'm in the middle of painting my Librarian terminator and my fuck it's easier than painting the regular marines because he doesn't have retarded shitty tassles everywhere like a curtain. I've decided that unless absolutely necessary I'm buying the regular SM kit for whatever I'm adding to my army and using the odd BA specific bit to make it look right.

People who weren't buying in any significant numbers. Alienating an inactive customer base is no-brainer.

>AoS is just ridiculous though. It strikes me as a parody of Warhammer created for some TV show or webcomic.

This. Both the fluff and the models are like someone tried to make an intentionally retarded version of Warhammer for parody purposes.

>the community that spawned the excellent faction forums
>the community that always made large events lively
>the community that supported the game at the highest level up until 2013
>toxic

The fantasy community was toxic as fuck tho, I remember going to the gw on battle nights and all the 40k players would be having a good time, making jokes and talking about 40k. Then there was the fantasy players, sitting in the backrooms and making comments about how shitty they thought 40k was, how their game was sooooooo much better blah blah blah. I played both games so I saw how people acted. The toxic 40k players were waac fags that would pout if they lost, the toxic fantasy players were just grognard holier than thou assholes

Are sales any better now, though?

>in any significant numbers.
>in any
>people still kept game in top-5 untill 2013
>even after last two editions

There has been one quarter where AoS has entered the top 5 best selling games.

It has been out since 2 years.

That's a no then.

I don't like the whimsical setting. It reminds me of a cheesy cartoon.

Considering GW has been reporting amazing financial results, they certainly aren't worse. They plan to make 8th ed 40k more similar to AoS, so clearly the game must've established itself enough.

>GW has been reporting amazing financial results
>amazing
>about as high as they were in 2012

What's the point of this debate? Both are objectively inferior to 40k.

Yeah, it was cool when I was a teenager and in my early twenties. As I have gotten older I have lost a lot of respect over how much in the setting is shameless plagiarism from much better literature.

I'm glad that it gave me a bunch of references to check out, though.

Black Library was also always 99% pure shit.

It's funny because I have played 40k for 15 years and I can't remember a time where WHFB players were like you described.

If anything they were mostly friendly and helpful.

You're right, 40k is even a more massive turd

For my group it was the lack of point values, just supposed to put whatever you have down. By the time Generals band-aid book came out, we had moved on.

I genuinely can't tell if OP is a false flag AoSfag so butthurt flames are shooting out of his asshole or a salty Fantasyfag so butthurt flames are shooting out of his asshole.

>whats the point? Brettonia is gone, her fields are ash and the Lady is dead.
user ;_;.

Of course, he is an AoS shill.

The square bases just make more sense for a medieval battle game where your dudes are supposed to form a battle line.

See, the thing about changing 40k to be more like AoS bothers me. Isn't that putting all your eggs into the AoS basket?

Rules have no granularity at all.