Is Warcraft the only setting where Orcs are an actual major race instead of being cannon fodder?

No, they destroyed the fucking elven homeworld in Spelljammers.

Elder scrolls orcs are a good example. Warlike and reviled, yeah. But they can get along fine in society.

TES Orcs are punching bags.

>both have pretty valid reasons to hate each other
Are you kidding me? Orcs were the invaders and aggressors from day 1!
The only mistake that Terenas ever committed was not to put all the orcs to death once he had them in camps.

>Killing a shitload of elfes
>bad

Hi Proudmoore.

The only problem I have with warcraft orcs is they went through all the trouble to be smart in 3 and then in WoW they went back to full retard constantly.

>abloobloo I'm a humanigger I attacked fucking Trolls alongside my elven fuckbuddies and dindunuffin but when Orcs attack me ithey are eeeeevil :(

Trolls deserve every bit of shit they get. Fucking savages. muh vol'jin

Humans deserved Scourge as well.

Who is Kosak?

The head writer for Warcraft since Cataclysm

So everything the orcs have done from Cataclysm onwards is his fault

Scourge should have been playable.

It is. In Warcraft 3 you fucking WoW playing normie cancer.

Well why didn't it stay playable?

>What are the Forsaken
>What are Death Knights
>What are scourge are mindless slaves of the Lich King and not suitable for a game about adventuring

>spend all your time working for peace
>make massive concessions to get it
>get nuked anyway
>people hate you when you are mad about this

Being Jaina is suffering.

I'm not mad at Jaina

I'm mad at the writers for ruining Jaina and everything related to Jaina

Imagine how I feel mate. I liked Arthas.

>every race is one dimensional as fuck and both Orcs and human factions are lame because they don't act like people at all they are caricatures of some trope

This describes Warcraft characters perfectly.

Seems to be a theme with Blizzard, either everything going well for characters or everything going poorly.

Reminder that the lore past WC3 is complete shit tier and the cancellation of Lord of the Clans robbed us of the best part of Warcraft. WC3 would have been so much better with LotC lore behind it.

Lord of the Clans if not canon? Since when?

It's mostly just retarded writers. Jaina was Metzen's waifu in WC3, hence her role. She was mostly forgotten in Vanilla, because that was mostly wild flailing and beyond that, nobody remembered Theramore even existed.
Then somebody Kosak showed up with a giant retard-boner for WC2 and everything that was even loosely affiliated with non-retard Orcs had to go. Hence Thrall becoming pussywhipped, Orcs regressing to complete dindus, Rexxar and Drek'thar becoming literal whos and Theramore getting nuked.

It has Deathwing as Alexstraza's son and dragons just as big, assholish lizards and not Aspects, so go figure.

>Cataclysm forced Deathwing in to the big roaring fucktard role
>Every piece of media beforehand writes him as a Lucifer-like great deceiver with amazing charisma and a fondness for playing the long game
>Deathwing used his pure fucking charm while in disguises to get Stormwind to lower its defenses
>Was able to learn about orcs in person with nobody any the wiser

>>have battleships with cannons instead of going ''hurr fuck technology''
Tolkien's orcs are the most technologically advanced race in Middle-earth.

Kosak is a shit writer

In other news, water is wet

>Kosak

What was it exactly that he wrote that made people hate him? I don't pay attention to who is writing what.

Genocidal army invades someone's planet.
Genocidal army commits mass extermination of native life.
Genocidal army still retains same name, same flag, and still reveres the same genocidal psychopaths.
Genocidal army claims that the "bad stuff" they did was demonic mind control that they're not culpable for while still idolizing them.
Trust me, if you use Warcraft style orcs, the PCs will generally not notice the difference between them ruthlessly exterminating humanity because "my noble heritage and proud tribal traditions" vs default orcs.

If anything, Warcraft orcs are more contemptible because of the way they engaged in depraved behavior like normal orcs while playing the self pitying victim.

>warcraft
>being it's own setting
Um, try again sweetie

Thrall is one of the few reasonable characters in Warcraft alongside Jaina which he propably fucked without a condom in front of his Horde.

Not quite, frostwolf orcs were always more geared towards diplomacy, and they're the ones who were in charge of the horde during most of warcraft. Whenever the warsong orcs were in charge massive wars happened.

>Warcraft orcs better than warhammer orcs

stopped reading there

>kill your own father because of a disagreement
>take the power of an ancient thunder god
That power is what corrupted her, she's a lost cause at this point and will likely do something retarded and wind up dead

They could kick their fucking ass easily WH Orcs can't even deal with scrawny humans who serve as target practice for other races meanwhile Warcraft Orcs can hold their own against planet destroying demons and humans who look like bodybuilders on average.

Everything from Cataclysm onwards regarding the main plot

Minor zone storylines were written by other people, but the general story of each expansion from Cataclysm to Legion is his work.

Garrosh was being corrupted by an old god, the warsong orcs are already war like as is.

It's canon that on average it takes two humans working together to kill a single average orc in warcraft.

I actually thought this was a cool idea with bad execution, the leader of a Chthulu cult being a warrior instead of the usual mage. I think that might work for a setting.

More like

>anything Warcraft better than anything Warhammer

Warcraft is basically the worst kind of fantasy.

They're both shit.

Yet it still shits on Warhammer.

The Warsong were warlike, but they fucked up so hard in RoC that they should be docile poodles. But Blizzard needed to jam the Horde into Ashenvale somehow and decided that Battlegrounds are a good idea, so the retardation started there.
It's ironic, Proudmoore was proven 100% right and Jaina seems like a naive idiot now, when back in WC3 Orcs demonstrably had a bunch of level-headed folks around that warranted the trust Jaina gave them.

What's your point? Even FR has the main orc faction being ruled by a reasonable guy.

FYI, There is a custom campaign for the Lord of the Clans based on the novel.

Behead him. Now. So many crimes. So many.

The fuck is FR?

Jesus, and I thought Knaak was a haack.

Fuckbegotten Realms, the lowest common denominator of D&D settings.

Yeah, but most people think of the movie orcs, which were literally just ooga booga retards incapable of doing anything unless somebody told them to.

>The fuck is FR
Its only the most popular official rpg setting of all time despite being utter shit

Think of what board you are in and try to reason what could FR possibly stand for.

I don't fucking play tabletop I thought this is a Dawn of War board.

>Forgotten Realms
>popular
What? I know its supposed to be the default setting but I know so few people who care about it.

Even /v/ knows about forgotten realms m8

Almost all the dnd games are set on it.

Isn't that pretty accurate?

I don't fucking play RPG games.

Its by far the most popular D&D setting of all time by a huge margin. Nothing comes close.

You have the stats for this? I am genuinely interested in what the popularity of settings is.

It is the official 5e setting
Always gets the most splats in every edition

I might be wrong but i cant think of a tabletop rpg setting that is more popular.

And despite all this it manages to be so bad and boring

Its still common knowledge on both boards

Elder Scrolls

This is what has me wondering. Forgotten Realms does not have a particularly strong identity outside of it being the official setting, so much so that I have played modules from it without realizing they were part of forgotten realms.

Literally how new are you?

I just came here from Reddit to discuss Minecraft and Game of Thrones.

>It is the official 5e setting

It is not, but most modules set it in FR by default. The closest 5e has to an official setting is the Manual of the Planes cosmology (Planescape with the memes stripped out).

>I say, Degaine, isn't it Turdas?
>Indeed it is, Reynald! By the Nine, I almost forgot it was time to sack Orsinium again!

It's the greater planescape with the material plane being Toril.

Its essential to remember that FR is very much the opposite of default -- FR simply doesn't use the same cosmology of Planescape, Greyhawk, and even Dark Sun and Birthright (although their Shadowfell analog is of much greater relevance than, say, the Outer Planes).

The default setting for D&D is the multiverse that includes all campaigns.

About the most you can say is that most APs feature FR by default, which is very different. The DMG, and even Volo's, makes no reference to the FR cosmology.

Meanwhile Greyhawk, a vastly better and more well-developed setting, gets no love at all. Thank goodness tabletop allows me to set my campaign wherever I so please.

What I like about Elder Scrolls Orcs is that they seem fine, their culture is fine and they very much are probably the nicest elves you can meet.

It's just bretons are racist cunts.

>Spend time working for peace
>Make Theramore a vanguard for the Alliance to attack horde heartlands.

Funnily enough orsimer are the nicest race in tamriel XD

>It's just bretons are racist cunts.

"Breton" is a funny way of spelling "literally everyone."

Do any Greyhawk modules cover its titular dungeon besides the very memey and lol randumb xD 2e one?

Except ironically, Nords and Imperials.

nobody seems to care about the Strongholds in Skyrim.

Then what are you doing in this thread?

Greyhawk is a city-state in the setting, not a dungeon (though it HAS one, if you're thinking about Castle Greyhawk). Personally, I use the setting for its established lore and setting rather than the modules. It lets me run a fairly solid campaign while I work on my own setting.

To be fair, they have more important shit to worry about and even the Orcs in Skyrim admit to being a race in decline.

>Nords
>not racist

the fuck are you on about

Nords are still racist, but in the Deep South style. They'll be super vocal about it, and everyone else thinks it's their defining trait, yet in spite of this by and large don't actually give a shit when it comes down to individuals.

Warcraft was a fun RTS, but holy hell its lore and worldbuilding suck ass, EVERYONE is a fucking demi god or mage and everythings so OTT and its just all so so high fantasy shit

Not like Warhammer where every named character can pulverize a dozen imperial spearmen or Orcs right?

Shame about what was happening in high rock.

I've noticed a trend
people just don't like high fantasy anymore

Did you just pretend that Warcraft is high fantasy?

Possibly, I thinks its more that the high fantasy works that are still continuing have all gone to shit.

Are you gonna pretend it's not?

I miss warcraft two when the Alliance genocided its way across Draenor.
Fuck Orcs.
Tauren are pretty cool guys, they can stay.
But seriously, fuck orcs.

More like Orcs fuck humans lol. Thrall fucked Jaina and she squirted another Well of Eternity it's cannon I work for Blizzard.