/mtg/ - Legacy General

Spice Edition

Whats the spiciest deck you've sleeved up or your favorite sideboard spice?

RESOURCES
>Active Legacy Forums
mtgthesource.com/forums/forum.php
mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5

>Current Legacy Metagame
mtgtop8.com/format?f=LE
mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy

>Find/Browse basic lands by their art, by sets, by artists, and more
basiclandart.tumblr.com

READINGS
>Top 5 Breakdown (May 26, 2016)
channelfireball.com/articles/the-top-5-legacy-decks/

>Miracles: The Match-Up Everyone Should Know
channelfireball.com/articles/how-to-defeat-miracles/

>Utilizing Cabal Therapy (Old but still good)
channelfireball.com/home/legacy-weapon-therapy-session/

..................................

Common Legacy - Decks You Should Prepare to Face
>Miracles
>Delver variants (Grixis, Izzet, BUG, RUG)
>ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
>Death and Taxes
>Eldrazi Stompy
>Shardless BUG
>Lands

Uncommon Legacy - Decks You Should Know About
>LED Dredge
>Reanimator
>Infect
>Stoneblade
>Burn
>TES (The Epic Storm)
>Elves
>Painter
>Maverick
>4-Color Loam
>Nic Fit
>Sneak n Show

Rare Legacy - Decks You May See On Occasion
>Enchantress
>MUD
>Goblins
>Merfolk
>High Tide
>Aluren
>Food Chain
>12 Post
>Belcher
>Pox Control
>Blood Moon Stompy variants
>Tezzerator
>Sneak n Breach
>Stax (White or Black)
>Deadguy Ale
>Landstill
>Affinity
>Oops, All Spells

Mythic Legacy - Decks You'll See Once a Year
>Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils (DDFT)
>Cheerios
>Nourshing Lich
>Non-Eldrazi Moon-less Stompy variants
>Spanish Inquisition
>Ux Omnitell
>Parfait
>The Cure (Kavu Predator + False Cure

Other urls found in this thread:

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sldd/
myabandonware.com/game/magic-the-gathering-duels-of-the-planeswalkers-9zu
mtgtop8.com/event?e=14131&d=284094&f=LE[/spolier]
deckstats.net/deck-12777248-4da76418c022614e22f8756045789050.html
mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy/full#online
channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-metagame-analysis-october-2016/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

I've been testing Thalia Stompy recently, thinking its about time to take it to my LGS. I'm still debating on Reality Smasher vs Lodestone Golem

25 LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Karakas
5 Plains
3 Wasteland

24 CREATURES
2 Containment Priest
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Thought-Knot Seer

11 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
2 Smuggler's Copter
2 Umezawa's Jitte

SIDEBOARD
1 Armageddon
1 Containment Priest
2 Disenchant
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Rest in Peace
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thorn of Amethyst

Been testing Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in my sideboard as a way to fight Miracles in UB Landstill. It's been not terrible so far.

Dead format
Dead thread

Like pottery

Spice you say? I'm still trying to make nourishing lich work. So far only managed 2-3 in an mtgo league and 1-3 in a gp side event. Deck fucking blows no matter how you slice it but it sure is spicy.

Will these replace the Onslaught cyclers in loam lists?
+Fetchable
+Sacs to KotR
-Hit by land-type hate

I'm retarded.

Why not just play soldier stompy and ain't chrome mox better for these type of decks as you can lower the landcount while still being relevant to get into 3+ mana. How about forgetting lodestone golem and going with trinisphere to kill opponent brainstorms, combo pieces?

I dont know if they'll replace them but I expect to start seeing them. Honestly wouldn't be suprised to see them as 1 of in slower grindier decks. Helps against flood late game.

I currently play Abzan Company and Naya Burn in modern and want to get into legacy, but I can't decide whether I want to get into NicFit, Delver, or some kind of Stoneblade variant. Help?

Maybe
You can fetch for them, but the Onslaught ones only cost 1 to cycle.
I'd say yes because you can fetch for them but I'm not certain and I play a decent amount of 4c loam

Do you like winning? If yes: Delver.
Do you like winning with someones Casual pile? If yes: Nic Fit.
If no to both: Stoneblade.

>bought into 2 tundras 2 volcs this
week
>desperately trying to ebay other cards to feel less bad about it
>nothing selling

when does the pain end my dudes

Will this see play in Aluren?

Definitely not. I would rather protect Aluren and I have my own counter magic for that.

Whe you give up on saving money and fully submit to the cardlust.

Drop unnecessary luxuries like gas, electricity and food.

Delver has a great early game and fares better against combo decks than nic fit. However if your meta is all midrange with very little combo nic fit is a lot more fun. Plus the value from Vet Explorer + Therapy gets me hard.

That being said: of the two main delver variants, BUG is for the Patricians while RUG is for insufferable tryhards that stifle your first fetchland.

At least he'll have the cardboard for winter shelter right?

>RUG
>Main

Are we just pretending like Grixis hasn't been the best performing Delver variant lately?

Hey doomsday guy,
What do you think about Sacland Doomsday as an introduction and transition into DDFT? The deck looks really fun, but I don't have the cash for 4xLED and Duals at the moment

You definitely give up some power but it's a good entry to doomsday if you're on a super thin budget. I haven't seen an updated list so I'd be interested in what one looked like. Not sure if anyone has touched it recently. If you're going to transition it into DDFT I'd get the led's first because you could play those in SLDD. You can also get away with just 3 LED's in DDFT so you can reduce your costs that way too.

Whats the overall better deck, R/G Lands or Infect? Don't know what to take to my local tournament

The primer on the source is old as hell, but nothing much has changed with the deck recently. Most notably was the addition of AD.

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sldd/
That's the list I'm planning on running. Manamorphose and RoF both seem kinda clunky. The deck also feels weird without brainstorm, but without fetches, I don't think they're worth playing

>Serpopard
>Can Snake

The absolute madmen.

This is all said without being super familiar with the piles in SLDD but...

Chain of vapor main is probably not needed. Lab man covers most of that ground. Could swap it for a chromatic sphere or another protection spell or a tendrils main which reduces the cost of certain piles. Likewise there may be better sideboard cards than chain. Massacre seems bad because you need a swamp. I'd play a death mark or something instead.

I just saw you have a tendrils main so disregard that. Should put the 4th decay in the boaRd I think. Youre a little slower than normal ddft so you likely can't win before CB/chalice/whatever comes down. Gonna need that decay, or a kgrip or something.

I forgot about the massacre clause, that was a bit on an oversight on my part.
Chain is probably getting dropped. Maybe I'll replace it's sideboard slot with a push or something. AD mainboard sounds like a good idea. Grip seems too expensive for this deck. With only single-shot mana, I don't think I can afford a 3 mana disenchant

I originally played doomsday in EDH, where Lab man is the only way to go. This whole counting to ten thing is kinda new for me.

You'll get used to counting to 10. If you already have some experience building piles it'll come easier.

This is what I have been taking to recent legacy events. I like that it can play the aggressive delver game, but also slow down and grind value. I have also had good success against miracles (although the people who I play against aren't that experienced). I am definitely open to suggestions/spice that I can add.

Notion Thief is pure spice and a huge swing if you time it right. Are you sure it's worth being in red just for 4 maindeck bolts? I realize the card in insane but it seems like a lot of stress to put on your manabase.Punishing Fire package

I just really like bolt and red blast and they are great with snapcaster. I realize this is not the optimal delver build, but nobody where I play really punishes my greedy manabase so I just run 4 colors and call it good. notion thief is sweet, I might try it instead of the jace in the board.

Fire Covenant is spicy AF and almost always a one-sided wrath in delver builds.

The deck started as a mashup between Eldrazi and D&T. It's actually better against combo than it would look at first glance; It's almost always going to jam Thalia, GOT or Chalice turn one often followed by TKS turn 2. After sideboarding you get access to 2x thorn and an extra containment priest if you want it. I do think some number of Trinisphere should be in the list, maybe trim 1x Jitte and 1x Reality Smasher to get them in? The copters are in there to counter the higher land count, allowing you to loot away land drops you don't want and fly in for damage at the same time. I've just never really liked soldier stompy, this list might not be as good, but it's a hell of a lot of fun and doesn't really seem to have too many horrible matchups.

So I've been thinking about taking the plunge and buying into legacy. Out of all the decks I've tried on xmage, Shardless BUG has been my favorite deck so far. Is it safe to take going into an unknown meta? The only decks that I've had problems with so far are faster combo decks like reanimator/TES, but I'm assuming there are more matchups that we aren't suited for that BUG Delver could deal with a lot easier.

Anyone here have any experience playing the deck? Any spicy 1-ofs that I might not have heard about/seen before?

It's BUG dude. Basically the opposite of spice.

In my experience, shardless is a deck that is at its best when you adapt it to whatever metagame you are facing. I feel like the deck has a lot of flex spots, and what you put in those will determine how well you perform against the decks you face. The sideboard also has tons of options to choose from, so you need to have some idea of what you are going to face in order to properly build it. That being said, the deck has a lot of raw power behind it and you will always have a chance to do well. Its just if you want those last few percentage points, deckbuilding skill is more important than in other decks.

As for spice, you could play a white source + meddling mages in the board, or maybe try out yahenni's expertise instead of a second deluge

Where's that mono-red Sneak player that posts in here

How do you deal with Death & Taxes

>tfw you play against a guy on xmage who kicks your ass and gives really good pointers and deck tech when you say you're going to concede

You have two real ways of dealing with D&T, combo out faster than they can resolve hate or grind them out. Turn 1/2 Sneak/Breaches for Griselbrand/Worldspine Wurm will almost always win you the game against D&T. If the game goes longer they will Revoker Sneak Attack and your life gets much harder, basically requiring you to Through the Breach a fatty or hardcast an Inferno Titan. When you sideboard bring in any sweeper effects that you have, Kozilek's Return or Fiery Confluence are great here. I'd recommend cutting some number of Chalice/Blood Moon to get the sweepers in; The are generally much better and often allow you to trade 3 for 1. If you have slower hands in this matchup it can be pretty tricky, but overall I think that Sneak and Breach is favored over D&T.

Thanks dawg, got an event on Sunday and I'm running a tweaked version of that list with Combustible Gearhulk you posted a while back

Why 4x Blood Moon in the main? Seems like more of a sideboard call

Blood Moon just wrecks the shit out of a lot of decks. There's a huge portion of the legacy meta that just flat loses to a turn one blood moon if it resolves. Pretty much any BUG deck, Lands, Eldrazi, Infect, Loam, and Delver (minus UR) either can't beat it or are severely compromised. Blood Moon also gives you another must counter threat against a huge number of decks that makes your Sneak/Breach more likely to resolve the next turn and win you the game. It's true that sometimes it's a dead card like in the Miracles or Sneak and Show match up, but it gives you so many free wins that I don't think I could ever sideboard it unless the meta was really weird. If I was playing in a meta overrun with spell based combo I might run Trinispheres main over Blood Moon.

do I play Esper or straight UW stoneblade?

I'm a man of Esper myself, I just love casting thought Seize with Stone forge and brainstorm though

which do you feels stacks up against miracles better?

I'd say Esper because of the discard and if you're running lingering souls that's really good against them too

Also, good luck! Let us know how it goes! I'd also be interested to see your tweeks, I've been messing around with my own list since I last posted it.

ban terminus

I don't think they will, even if I don't see how they could change the metagame without banning some cards...

I mean, even burn decks start running Top, 50% of the meta plays 4 delvers and/or 4 shamans, and 90% of people play FoW.

Either they start banning stuff, or they print a 7/3 hexproof flying trample for U.

Thing is this is just what happens to Eternal formats. Eventually there is a clear best deck and the format is mostly solved, banning cards can mix things up but then the dust will resettle and a new king will be crowned. Its just the way it goes.

This. The power level required for cards to create new decks or oust old decks is so high that they are extremely unlikely to get printed, or if they are, stay legal. The closest we've gotten to that in a quite a while is Leovold and Noble BUG pushing out Shardless to an extent. The only time you really see legacy get truly shaken up is when something is probably about to get the ban hammer like when Treasure Cruise and DTT were legal and pushing large swaths of the meta out of playability.

The problem with TC and DTT is that they give a huge advantage to decks that are already at the top of that hierarchy.

I'm still convinced that banning some cards (like Top) or unbanning others (like Wheel of Fortune) or even printing something real new (like "counter target creature spell unless its caster pays 2" for G or W)

>The problem with TC and DTT is that they give a huge advantage to decks that are already at the top of that hierarchy.

Yes and no. DTT took Solidarity from a solid tier 7 to tier 1 overnight. TC took UR delver from a good, playable tier 2/3 deck to tier 1. DTT also made Omnitell ridiculous as it gave the deck an insane way to reload. TC and DTT also made Shardless unplayable, Miracles joined the DTT fun, but was overall a bit worse, Stoneblade variants pretty much died. The result was actually a mixed bag, some tier 1 decks got a lot worse, or stayed the same and lots of lower tier deck got better or became insanely overpowered.

>unbanning others (like Wheel of Fortune)

If you want to see storm be absolutely ridiculous that would be one way to do it.

>banning some cards (like Top)

Honestly, if your looking to weaken/kill Miracles you ban Terminus/Counterbalance not top. Top is used in plenty of fair non-blue decks as a way to help them keep up with blue decks running Brainstorm and Ponder. The only real argument to be made against top (without consideration to miracles) is that it can cause time issues if people are slow at playing/don't know their deck.

>"counter target creature spell unless its caster pays 2" for G or W

This will literally never happen. It breaks the color pie in very fundamental ways. The closest you will probably ever get to this is Mana Tithe.

As a Miraclesfag; the best way to weaken the deck without outright killing it (which a ban on Terminus would do) or actually making the format significantly more retarded (which is what banning Top/Counterbalance would do)... is to ban Mentor.

Without Mentor, Miracles has a far more reasonable range of good/bad matchups. Namely, DnT-Eldrazi-12post are FAR harder to beat without Mentor. 12post is essentially impossible pre-board and even post-board if it has ways to deal with non-basic land hate you are still kind of fucked.

Which is incidentally why Big Eldrazi is a 0.01% matchup for Miracles right now. Ban Mentor and these decks can definitely put a damper on it's metagame percentages.

As for Unbans, we went over this in the previous thread. Earthcraft, Mind Twist, Frantic Search, Goblin Recruiter, and Mind's Desire are all RELATIVELY safe unbans.

Wheel of Fortune, Memory's Jar, and Windfall are fucking retarded cards and you should feel bad for even implying they are remotely safe. They are probably right behind the Delve spells, Mishra's Workshop, and the Power-Nine on the list of 'Shit that should absolutely never under any circumstances be let out of Vintage'.

>Wheel of Fortune, Memory's Jar, and Windfall are fucking retarded cards and you should feel bad for even implying they are remotely safe. They are probably right behind the Delve spells, Mishra's Workshop, and the Power-Nine on the list of 'Shit that should absolutely never under any circumstances be let out of Vintage'.

Was in response to:

Just played about the silliest match I've ever been a part of. Opponent's on some kind of mill deck. Hedron Crab, Archive Trap, the works. I catch them pants down game 1 and go off. Game 2 I board in Emrakul and nothing else. I'm on the "sit and wait until I can natural tendrils" plan since Doomsday-ing around Mill is a pain. It took SIX Emrakul triggers before they scooped it up. I don't know if they didn't realize what was happening or if it took them that long to figure out they had no outs or what.

>Unbanning Wheel of Fortune
This kills the Legacy.

Yeah well, maybe I fucked up suggesting Wheel of Fortune. I just looked through the banlist and took one almost at random, without thinking through too much. Should have said Mind Twist.

Anyway I don't give a shit, when you can drop a fucking Emracool turn 2 on the board and no one bats an eye, why not spin the wheel of fortune and fuck the format even deeper.

Why don't I ever see this in legacy?

Because decks that want to play that kind of thing have burning wish.

I tried it out in a storm list and it blew. Half your life is a lot.

Because either your deck can use Cunning or it can use Burning instead? Death Wish is fucking dicks.

I'd rather spend half my life to draw 4 cards, no one will expect that

Can I get advice on a filthy fucking casual deck here? I feel like the modern players will bully me if I ask there

Does it have old cards?

Go for it.

as long as you don't pretend its a competititve legacy deck we welcome casuals

yes and
ok!

So I recently found myself semi-frequently playing with a group of turbo casuals. and when I say turbo casuals, I mean people who play angel tribal and theme decks. So I wanted to build something terrible and fun to play at their level.

So digging through my old bulk box for ideas, I found a play set of dragon arch. one is in pretty rough condition, but I figure I can throw them in some ultra-pros and they'll be fine. I also have a few copies of supply//demand. so my initial thought for the deck is a multi-color creature toolbox deck.

Do you have any ideas for lines of play I could include in the deck beyond "tutor progenitals, slam it into play, win game" ?

forgot my picture

Watchwolf and Fleecemane Lion are undercosted multicolored beaters.

Civic Saber and the Jund Hackblade-type cycle are a nice synergy alongside Transguild Courier, Knight of new Alara and Might of the Nephilim.

Just unban Survival of the Fittest.
Why is that card even on there?

I would play the hell out of this card

Because it's pretty fucking broken. It enables Reanimator style decks that can blow up in your face super fast or grind you out with silver bullet creature packages.

That art is fucking awesome though.

I thought it would be played in an Abzan value deck with DRS and Vengevine plus silver bullets like Teeg with Survival for draw engine.

If survival was legal tomorrow the deck I'd try to build would be BUG. This gives you access to DRS for ramp and incidental grave hate, Decay/Force as catchalls, Vengvine for beats, Leovold and a smattering of other hateful creatures, Fetches and Brainstorm for filtering, and a reanimation package containing Griselbrand, Tidespout Tyrant, Iona, and whatever else you wanted. It'd actually play similar to BUG Alluren but with a much faster, easier to assemble, and more resilient "I win" button.

That actually seems really good. Is there any card on the banned list that doesnt benefit blue decks if it comes off though?

Maybe necro/bargain?

Necro and Bargain would be abused to hell and back by the storm decks of the format, which are blue. Necro/Bargain would probably also enable some degenerate UB Combo decks like they did back when they were legal. The only cards on the banned list that wouldn't give blue a boost that I can think of are Mindtwist, Goblin Recruiter, and Earthcraft. Cool thing is that Twist, Recruiter, and Earthcraft are a few of the more likely cards to come off the banned list.

recruiter will never come off. it just won't happen

Why is this allowed?

It's not even that good. One of the cards that is highest on the list of potential Unrestrictions for Vintage IMO

Like, in a world of Dredge-Workshops-Oath-Gush. Library is just not all that great. It's a card that is only good in the Blue mirror and if you are playing Gush since that allows you to refill your hand so quickly. Otherwise, outside of your opening hand - it's close to a dead draw.

Except it's really good in the gush decks that make up a large portion of vintage right now.

Eh, it's a card that is good in that deck - but if it weren't there, they'd hardly even notice it was gone.

Like obviously Library is a powerful card, and every once in awhile it single-handedly wins you the game.

So I've got a BUG Control list that has served me well in a podunk meta but I'm moving to the big city soon. I'm picking up a leovald but other than that are there any good spices floating around for the general meta?

Fauna Shaman is as close as you get.

I want into mtg, is duels reccomended? Do people even play it?

Get the old one instead
myabandonware.com/game/magic-the-gathering-duels-of-the-planeswalkers-9zu

It's faster and more fun to play.

Post list and we can help

bump

what's the most fun stoneforge mystic deck?

best: Death and Taxes
most fun: mtgtop8.com/event?e=14131&d=284094&f=LE[/spolier]

deckstats.net/deck-12777248-4da76418c022614e22f8756045789050.html

r8

Dude, you would play TNN in a duel?

I've been running 1-2 copies of grand abolisher and it has been working pretty well, but I do like that CatSnek works against chalice and counterbalance while being easier on colors.

What's the reason Miracles is allowed to single-handedly dominate the format for 3+ straight years again?

Miracles and delver have been a solid 50% of the meta for that entire time but WOTC dont care.

Atleast there's more variety between Delvers than whether you die on turn 10 to Mentor or 30 to angels. Miracles is almost more than all viable Delvers put together.

It just speaks to the grasp the cantrip shell has on the format. Its pretty much pushed midrange completely out and the only other viable decks are either niche engine decks (elves/loam), straight combo (many that also run the cantrip package) or hate bears.

>Miracles and delver have been a solid 50% of the meta
Not really. I'll Refer you to:
mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy/full#online

Adding up Miracles+Delver variants = ~37%, a far cry from 50%. Are these decks over represented? Yes. Are they 50% of the meta? Not even close. Also, Keep in mind that these are online results, which don't properly represent how popular D&T is in paper due to the cost of Rishidan Port online. This most likely reduces the % of delver in paper as it's actually a pretty budget deck to build online.

Found the article about paper legacy I was looking for, It's a little out of date, but mostly jives with the current online results.

channelfireball.com/articles/legacy-metagame-analysis-october-2016/

Delver decks = 17.6%, Miracles = 16.6% for a total of 34.2% overall metagame share, which is pretty in line with what the 37% online results taking into account the increased number of people that play D&T in paper.