Warhammer 40k general

When did hull points even show up? 5th? 6th? Or is it new to 7th?

6th

I'll agree there I can't count the number of times I lost a rhino to a glancing hit in 3rd. You were better off foot slogging than using anything with less than AV14.

I won't say I love Hull points, but I will agree that they make them more worth taking.

Yeah, now anything without special rules to give it special saves just dies if anything looks at it too sternly. Much better.

>/pol/ OP
>Grognards
Oh no, it's starting again!

I think hull points are good. But I also think the vehicle damage table is retarded, most of the results don't do anything since half the vehicles in the game ignore crew stunned/shaken either entirely or on certain dice rolls. Imobilized and weapon destroyed should be more typical of the result of a penetrating hit.

Continuing this idea. I forgot to add to "cons":
-can't hit your own units nor multiple units

But you can work around these. On my more finalized idea blasts would be changed to nova-like abilities. You'd scatter the central point and hit everything within X''. Flamers could work somewhat like line psychic powers, ie. draw a 9'' line from the shooter, every with at least one model under the line suffers nDy hits.
I also thought about unit sizes and how it would affect them. Obviously small units would suffer from this. I think this would be good thing against monsterous creatures, like if you shoot a stormsurge with battle cannon, instead of just potentially loosing one wound it could lose more. And before anyone spills the beans about nid MC's, in their current states they are fucked no matter what and need revamp in their codex. Against non-MC units some sort of max hit cap (like the current unit size) could be appropriate.

So to summarize the changes:
-no ambiguity from using blast markers/templates. They are not hard to use but especially in heated manchildren wars they can cause or further some spite and argument on if some units are under the blast or not etc. Dice are fair to all in their random way.
-Reduce the neccessary items needed to play. Any self-respecting player ALWAYS remeber to bring everything you need to play. Except those times they don't. Human errors happen but what I learned from the military is that less moving parts thing has the more reliable it is.
-Unit formations. You don't have to spread out against blast. In fact you can't. It takes away counterplay which is bad on itself. Then again it would make playing 200+ model armies more bearable. I mean I could take 40 minutes to max out perfectly the coherency of my six guardsman blobs every turn. Also with small blasts they are too binary of being totally useless or maximum clustermurder unless they were barrage of several small blasts.

What are you talking about? Las guns are still only strength 3 AP -, Tau Plasma (the most common thing I face) is S5 ap 5. And my bolters are still S4 AP 5.

The only shit killing things by looking to sternly at them are those few things (Soul Grinders and a few Psychic Powers) that have eyebeams.

And to be clear. I'm not claiming my idea is better system than the current one. I was only playing with the idea and speculating the changes it would cause.

>You'd scatter the central point and hit everything within X''

That's literally the exact same as the current system except now instead of a template you're trying to figure out what all is within x with a tape measurer.

Living in fifth edition was like being a dinosaur after the meteor hit. You could see everything dying and new changes that would ruin the ecosystem taking over and you know you're among the last of your kind.

You know, I don't hate soul grinders, even though they're creatures that are monstrous in nature, yet are somehow statted as vehicles.

Do you usually go around pointing out obvious things? Is this how you live your life?

>Tyranids should ally with Space Marines to smooth out any shortcomings with their terribad codex.

Oh boy can't wait to receive everything that makes your army good.

I played 2nd, 3rd and 4th, skipped 5th and 6th and started again in 7th. It's like being a dinosaur and waking up one day to find everything that was normal and good dead and gone and replaced with highways and air pollution.

Test piece for when GW finally release Death Guard.

It's work in progress. What do you guys think?

Why bother to blank out his face on the posts when it's blown up to max size behind them?

...

Probably because the design team figured chaos demons needed some kind of vehicle other than flimsy chariots, and had enough Monstrous Creatures.

Something something, genestealer infiltration, something something.

It's all I live for.

Subsequently in 8th edition carnifexes will be AV11 vehicles because tyranids have plenty of monstrous creatures.

How about all the things that made your army scary?

Like Instadeath from a single wound from a Hivetyrant. Or Lictors that can appear where ever, disappear, then reappear so they can't be shot, and can murder a whole squad a CSM in one turn.

Hey that's a great idea, just giving your tanks wounds to make up for the only way to stop them.

I'll let the Nid players at my store claim their Carnifexes and tervigons have AV14.

GSC should be allies of convenience with any faction capable of sexual reproduction.

GSC with a purple riptide wing please.

Please explain how lictors murder an entire squad of 3+ boys who can overwatch that lictor everytime it hits and runs and 3A's

Is lictor's being scary the reason I haven't seen them on the table top since 4th? They just scare their owners into not playing them?

LOL classic cat poster! Keep up the good work man.

This is a wholesome suggestion. GW hire him.

Don't your carnifex have 4 wounds? Immunity to Instant death because they are T6. Are only wounded by Small arms fire on extremely lucky rolls and have the ability to insta gib most HQ's? Oh and they have a 3+ save. They are actualy better than most tanks since they have living battering Ram?

That's because they have an amazing statline.
135 points for a 13/13/11 walker, ws3 bs3 i3 a4, that ignores shaken and stunned on a two plus, 5++ save, a power fist and a 3 shot autocannon with optional skyfire.

5 points for rerolling all saves of 1.
15 points for fleet, +3 to run rolls and rending incase he loses his claw.
15 points for shrouded and defense grenades (which he can throw to blind squads, thank you FAQ)

The only time lictors could do that was in second edition when they could take biomorphs, biomorphs were good and they could drag a dude out of his unit with their flesh hooks.

How can we make Lictors and Raveners great again? I haven't seen them on the table for a decade.

Would rules to assaulting after deepstike need to be added or does their stat line need tweaking?

Okay maybe I haven't played anyone but 1 tau player and 1 Eldar player since 4th...

But I still I remember fighting 'Nids and there shit was scary as fuck. Hell I bought the 4th ed codex just so I could learn their units and figure out how to kill them. Lictors were the bane of my existence.

3 wounds, it costs almost 200 points with equipment, can only move 6" a turn and will panic if not in synapse range.

It's like a dreadnought but more expensive, easier to kill and has to take leadership tests.

Also because squads were small and lictors had better statlines they could drag a segreat put of his squad, see if it would blend and go to town on the rest no problem.

Death Guard when?

>shittypicture/10
Seriously dude, if you want some input put some effort

Trying to make a Kill Team from Dark Vengeance, and going with WYSIWYG, otherwise I'd remove the plasma gun from the bike and add another marine.

Would this just get my shit kicked in, or would it be capable enough?

4th edition was the last Hurrah user, deathbeetles and sweeping assaults. I would agree with you that in 4th we were scary. However in this decade we're a shadow of our former glory thanks to this man.

Nids are the ottomans before dissolution, a glorious past but now truly the Sick Man of Europe.

Transition from being a high cost individual to a brood killed them.

They should go back to being 1 model units, make them a monstrous creature, buff their statline, give them access to biomorphs, actually have good biomorphs like warp field and extended carapace and give their flesh hooks precision shots and have it drag a model 2d6 toward the lictor.

>Would rules to assaulting after deepstike need to be added or does their stat line need tweaking?
Both, they could stand to be T5, as well being able to charge the turn they arrive.

200 points? Dear shit did they nerf Carnifex since 4th? That Bastard should be 160 points, WS3 BS3 S9 T6 W4 I1 A4 LD7 SV 3+ Fearless. (IB - Feed and Living Battering Ram) with +2 I on the charge. Taking Armor Pen on 2d6 with S9 should rip apart any thing.

How bad did they nerf this guy?

Raveners suck shit because instinctive behavior doesn't work.on fast units and because they inexplicably can't deep strike, even through a tryon tunnel because wording. Beyond that the only issue with them is cost.

A little bit of both. Lictors need to either be Carnifex-tough in terms of wounds and sustainability in order to get stuck in with a unit and actually last long enough to be terrifying, or they need the ability to run in, kill any model they want in the unit, then fade away.

Raveners just need to be a warrior template that can deep-strike and charge, or they need good weapons platforms. Since 'nids don't traditionally hand out their good shooty guns at all, that probably means giving them access to a Bonesword-like weapon and more attacks.

Pretty swingin amigo

Do you think that somewhere in the deepest, darkest, most ancient vaults of Terra, there's a Glock 19?

Not a functional one at least. The corrosion/rust/whatever time effect, would make it unusuable after thirty thousand years.

A stabber pistol?

That guys exagerating.
They've got that statline exceot are A3, but are only 120 points. Now have D3 hammer if wrath hits instead of +2 I on the charge and can by S10 2d6 pen crushing claws for 15 points.

You can make them 200 points if you really want to but ~150 after adding some guns or biomorphs is typical

>what is grav
>what is force
>what are the other bazillion things that cause instant death
>what are random charge distances
>what is overwatch
>what is shooting in 7th editionin general
>what are assaulting into cover penalties

Carnifexes are the lowest value for points monstrous creatures in the entire game right now, a CC carnifex will be shot yo death by regular infantry squads in one shooting phase and will lose in CC against almost any other MC, even cheaper ones.

So where do you draw theine between streamlining and dumbing down?

Considering how bike work you should be fine

I wouldn't discount DAOT preservation techniques. The Mona Lisa and a Gutenberg Bible still existed at least as late as the Horus Heresy.

Close combat carnifexes are literally worthless, they're better off with twin linked devourers in almost every situation save for trying to kill a high AV vehicle and they're still expensive as shit compared to similar units in other armies.

They're not the most badly overcosted unit in the codex, probably only 20 points above their actual value, but given the huge expense of the most simple upgrades they're not a strong unit.

Eh, I've found just going with twin scythes with adrenal glands for fleet works well enough in pairs running up with the hormagaunts.

Do they still have FnP? or am i imagining that.

They can be given it by a friendly psyker, but I'm pretty sure they never had it themselves from 3rd ed onwards (dunno about 2e)

Predetermined to hit and to wound rolls. They may seem similar to existing mechanics but they render the stats of the target irrelevant which removes a lot of nuance from army building since all you need to do is maximize wound dealing efficiency without regard for the nature of possible things you might face.

No. Literally nothing in the tyranid codex has feel no pain.

noice

TLDs and adrenal glands is what I do. The only thing you lose is 1 attack.and it only costs 30 points more for legitimately useful shooting that your opponent can't ignore.

Warlord with adaptive biology. Check mate chitinskin.

>I2

He gets FnP after he has taken a wound. So the unit as taken and as placed.on the table at the start of the game does not ever have feel no pain.

Grav: I have the least experience with this as I have never faced it but...What is Regeneration? It can't insta gib you as far as I know. Only wound you on a 3+
Force - So don't like a socerer or Libarian into melee with the Carnifex? Even then it isn't as bad as 3-5 when force wasn't a seperate psychic power he has to use that power in his psychic phase. He can't use it on your turn. Squish him on your turn.
Other sources of ID: You mean Tyranid Boner Swords, and double your toughness? Nothing is S12. You're fine.
What is Overwatch? A joke hit on 6 wound on 6 since the average infantry gun is a S3 or 4 Save on 3+ You're fine.
Assaulting into cover: Don't frag spines remove that problem?

>flyrant takes wound
>fails grounding check
>takes another wound
>gets shot to shit while grounded
>gets assaulted
>if it survives to its next turn it has feel no pain

So he failed his FnP against the grounding, and the shooting, and the assault. If he gets it after he takes a wound isn't that right after he takes the wound.

No, he gets FnP on the beginning of the next turn, not immediately

No, he doesn't get his FnP until the start of his next turn.

I had the choice of blood angels or Slaanesh marines but because I hated the rules chaos had I went with blood angels.
But after building so much of them I'm still eyeing up the new EC rules, I wish I knew they were coming before I started.

Indecisiveness is my vice, I think I'll buy some chaos marines for shadow war. The desolation kit comes at a discount, right?
I'll file the chaos stuff off the rhino and use it for my blood angles, units I need for both armies at a discount + some scouts!

But then, what do with the boyz?

The best is when you flyrant perils, in your psychic phase, grounds and then has to eat an entire turn of whatever your opponent wants to do to it and if it survives that then it gets feel no pain.

The rhino kit just comes with extra chaos bits to add on, no filing required.

r8/critique pls

Grav cannon with amps. 5 shots, wounding on 3+ with rerolls. It can insta-gib him with just a bit of luck. Basic grav gun doesn't get to reroll wounds, but it still has 3 shots.

Grav guns are AP2 Salvo weapons, and are normal special/heavy weapons in SM armies, you get entire squads of devastators with grav cannons and bike squads qith grav guns. So no, regenerating wounds on a 4+ isn't going to do anything at all, regeneration also costs 30 points.

Also there are force guns now, all grey knights units have force weapons and there's an absolute plethora of weapons that cause instant death.

You don't understand. Grav wounds on armour save and is AP2. And a minimum size squad of grav Centurions puts out 15 shots. Five plasma guns will kill a Carnifex. Sternguard special ammo will kill a Carnifex. A 5-man squad of missile launcher devastators will kill a Carnifex. A ten man squad of Fire Warriors will put out 30 S5 shots with an Ethereal nearby, 40 shots if there's a Cadre Fireblade in the unit. Dead Carnifex.

I played against my mate's Corpse Thief formation of five Talos Pain Engines backed by another formation that grants them 4+ FnP, re-rolling 1s. Each pain engine is T7, 3W, 3+ armour. I dumped 30 grav shots into that unit and outright killed three of those things.

Carnifexes are terrible.

But the desolator kit is a significant discount, right?

Reminder that you'll never get shto with 1 grav cannon with grav amp. It'll be 3 because centurions.

I assume chapters have been gifted heirlooms of our time by hive worlds and IG commissar lords for acts of valor.
clip related, somewhat
youtube.com/watch?v=OwqWe0wz0fY

Carnifexes are also worse than taloses in terms of overall usefulness and survivability yet cost the same (and upgrades for taloses are cheaper).

Frag spines don't exist anymore, you have no assault grenades in your codex.

Not that it matters much when carnifexes are I2.

/thread
Vehicles are a joke, and have been since 6th edition.
Make vehicles great again.

This.

It must have been unholy guidance that made me derp at math and buy only 40 MkIIIs when I really needed 50. Now I can buy a set of new death guard and mix them with the rest of the MkIIIs.

There are flesh hooks, but there aren't any units that can take them other than warriors.

Yes and you still won't need to file anything. It's worth getting.

The baneblade granting zealot is bubblewrapped by infantry squads that return to the opposing side of the board outflanking with extra movement on a 2+
The infantry squads grant each other cover saves.

1850 Renegades & Heretics: Vraks Renegades Unending Host

HQ
Renegade Command Squad
Arch Demagogue, master of the horde, covenant of nurgle, 4x Disciples
chimera, flamers

Troops
Renegade Infantry Platoon
20x PCS, Demagogue, x3 melta, sigil, meltabombs, militia training
20x Infantry Squad, x3 plasma, sigil, militia training
20x Infantry Squad, x3 plasma, sigil, militia training

Renegade Infantry Platoon
20x PCS, Demagogue, x3 melta, sigil, meltabombs, militia training
20x Infantry Squad, x3 plasma, sigil, militia training
20x Infantry Squad, x3 plasma, sigil, militia training

Renegade Infantry Platoon
20x PCS, Demagogue, x3 melta, sigil, meltabombs, militia training
20x Infantry Squad, x3 flamer, sigil
20x Infantry Squad, x3 flamer, sigil

20x Plague Zombies

6x Renegade Sentinels, autocannons, camo netting, militia training

Lords of War
Renegade Baneblade, militia training

How the fuck is this balanced?
An army that can destroy a broken Vraks Renegades list without fielding a single rapier laser, as long as I don't roll a hand full of 1's.
If Renegades are still playable in 8th I don't see a counter to this.

Tyranids should be fucking scary. Assault out of deep strike would be a good start. Assault through cover. Make GS fast moving, and, high initiative. Take away that stupid feed penalty when out of synapse range...

My thoughts. Damn you Cruddace.

Maybe if the shit didn't get wreck due to a paint scratch it wouldn't be so bad.

Only Penetrating hits can destroy a vehicle. You can still glance it to 1 HP, but you'll need something to pen the bloody thing.

I'd say give it an armor save or something against glances.

Flesh hooks aren't assault grenades anymore.