Is it true that Abortion doesn't exist in D&D?
My DM says that it doesn't exist and that's ridiculous. In a setting with magic far more women would be making choices that benefit themselves at the expense of their children's lives. If you can burn a person to death with a magic fireball I guarantee you can burn an infant to death with some magic poison or kill it with magic tongs or something.
Look, I'm not one to be rude, even on Veeky Forums, but your DM is retarded and can't even research.
Whose realm is more magical, yours or his?
Here's a quick check list to verify if the setting has abortions
A: do they have forks long enough to reach a uterus
B: are there whores?
C: is the setting dark enough to allow it (pretty much anything under 1000% noble bright)
If you answered yes to all these questions congratulations! There's abortions
Forreal though, punch a pregnant woman hard enough, throw her down a staircase, drink too much alcohol. There's a million ways to end a pregnancy.
Of course, if it's acceptable to dispose of unwanted newborns than the potential danger of most of these abortions is probably outweighed by the choice to do that.
Forgot to add that you don't even need a fork cuz "if there's a will there's a way" and that way is a sharp kick to the womb. Because guess what if you're sucking dick for money a pocket knife abotion isn't too far of a leap
>900% noblebright
>women are murdering their own children because those children might burden them
>things that didn't happen
>My DM says that it doesn't exist and that's ridiculous.
Maybe he wanted to avoid autistic political arguments in his game?
even outside all the violent, unsavory options listed above, it's unreasonable in a fantasy setting that there wouldn't be any witch, sorcerer, or other individual who couldn't muster up a curse spell to render an individual barren. Given how much many cultures care about succession, genealogy, and maintaining the family line, especially amongst nobility, I would consider it a go-to curse to punish nobles who double-cross spellcasters and the like. Hell, it would be a go-to for hags of all sorts to make people miserable, even!
Honestly it might be difficult or too expensive to access for common folk, and might generally be used to afflict or harm, but it should by all good sense exist.
That'd make more sense to use as a contraceptive than an abortifacient, wouldn't it? When used with benevolent intentions, at least.
If he insists there isn't abortion, I have one single suggestion.
Invent it.
I wouldn't be surprised if there also happened to be some sort of abortion or miscarriage spell they could use, if they wanted to mess with some noble but not badly enough to go through whatever hassle is involved in permanently cursing them.
It does, but your DM probably doesn't want something like abortion grimdarking up his campaign; especially if they know its a hot button issue/sore spot for other players.
Why do you even need to know if abortion exists in D&D in the first place? That's not something an ordinary player would try to bring up.
Also, as a counter to the other ideas of how abortion logically exists in a fantasy setting, I'd assume that fertility deities are stronger than you average Hag, and could undo/block an abortion spell.
What's with the dang reproduction threads?
I blame the weird dwarf erp thing from a few weeks ago.
D&D isn't a setting. It is a shitty set of rules.
Fucking this.
And I'm a pro-choice hyper liberal XX.
Why do people say that women are oppressed when they have to decide which members of the next generation live and which die?
>discussing abortions in D&D
Fucking hell...
If magic were real women would definitely kill their kids a lot more often though. As it stands the process of them murdering a child is still pretty traumatic.
Yeah especially when they can't even be bothered to find a dumpster to leave it in so they throw it out a window instead and then don't face a murder charge.
>all these people pretending to care about children to meet their daily conservative christian points
DESU, you play D&D to fight monsters and explore fantastic worlds; not sit at the table and having a political discussion about real world topics.
Hey man, at least we have elves and dwarves not fighting each other. You can't have everything.
>dispersing a handful of undifferentiated cells is the same as killing a child
Let me answer your question with a question: can you resolve the issue without bringing real world political bullshit to the table?
Cause given what we've all heard, you sound like "that guy".
Plus, if the DM says you can't, you can't, quit being a faggot and adapt to the situation.
>posting in bait thread
Basically every society has extensively used abortion and infanticide. Even in western Europe exposure was rampant barely 200 years ago
Iron Heart Surge. Dammit Veeky Forums. How the fuck have you forgotten about this?
Because there are bible-thumping men (and some women) who insist women are breeding hosts and exist only to bear children. Literally, creepy politicians and their voter base making their locales into their magical realm.
Hell, it made the news in recent weeks, should be easy enough to Google that. Here, about halfway down - search for "host" : theintercept.com
> not real world topics
Kinda the same reason we frequent Veeky Forums you hypocritical faggot. Abortion doesn't exist in fantasy because magic.
Unlike IRL, women can make periods go away with a potion until they're ready to take the antidote and have kids - if ever. Simple.
whatever helps you sleep at night.
>tfw I kill thousands of children every time I wank.
>tfw gf kills one child a month just by being alive
Hey, womb-boogers are people too! And if you rub one out, that's like millions of potential children you just murdered, Pol Pot!
>I've been taught to dehumanize the victims of a eugenics program
Wow really makes me think
If I kill any person, does that mean I really killed like a million people when all their gametes die too?
>en.wikipedia.org
>"mismating shots"
Is that when the dad empties both barrels to the black man he catches with hid daughter?
I don't see why not.
On a more serious note, if your GM is requiring you to to carry a pregnancy to term in game, your GM is a piece of shit. Do the world a favor and stab him to death before he rapes someone.
>TO
>TERM
Why is it that mentally ill people always throw that phrase around?
There are all sorts of herbs and curses to cause infertility and the book of vile darkness has such magical pettiness as killing people's families and friends, it would stretch disbelief for me if there wasn't SOMETHING to cause miscarriage.
I could even imagine a clever demon/devil in disguise offering services and secretly claiming the unborn souls.
There are canon herbs and spells to make people infertile though IDK how they interact with ongoing pregnancies. I think at least one relevant herb was in the forgotten realms campaign setting.
>desperate gm makes unborn babies immune to damage in an attempt to stop the player's abortion quest
>this only worsens the situation as the players use the new rules to build an invincible battle-fort
Mama really needs this bonus!
We don't use any of the bad books in our campaign though
I guess all medical professionals are mentally ill then, because that's specific technical terminology.
I take it you've never heard of a miscarriage either?
>doesn't deny that he's mentally ill
>I believe that a lump of matter lacking even nerves is somehow a person
>meanwhile an actual person with actual consciousness, thoughts, memories, hopes and dreams should be forced to undergo a series of irreversible, potentially life-threatening biological changes
>also after I've forced the person to allow the lump of matter to turn into a real human, I will then try to cut off any and all support to that human and its mother, and if the father is dead or gone and she has to raise the child alone I will blame that mother for all of society's ills
>i've been taught to dehumanize the victims of a eugenics campaign
If we're operating under your non-standard definition of 'mentally ill', which somehow includes every person with basic natal education, then yes, I suppose I must be.
Shit man, the greeks fucked an abortion plant out of existence. Whores regularly got abortions because their pimps needed them to work.
>eugenics campaign
What?
Not DnD, but hell, Pathfinder's goddess of death and birth strictly prohibits the practice. Honestly the only Veeky Forums piece of material I've seen that even mentions abortion.
It's a CONSPIRACY!
> A cell incapable of developing a fetus on its own is human because it contains 50% of the DNA required to develop a functioning human.
More to the point spontaneous abortion happens all the goddamn time (it's the kind of thing that's only been picked up on because of widespread pregnancy testing at a very early period; historically it was "oh, I missed a period, must be stress, hey it's back"). If you assume any fertilisation means that a child has been created, then humans are designed to murder babies.
Or you accept that's retarded and join the rest of the 21st century.
Holy shit, user. Its just a fucking game of pretend. Get a grip on yourself.
>Welcome to my fantasy game about swords and fireballs and killing monsters to steal their treasure
>Well I as a player want to be able to masturbate with ground up zygotes and vaginal blood as lube, so you have to describe it for me.
I think I'm in love. Please have my abortion?
I'm . One, I'm not . Secondly, is right. Thirdly, I'm not mentally ill; and I'm not a guy.
Single mothers are the worst thing to ever to America!
But birth control, family planning and sex education are wrong!
...
...
That's not the argument user was making, you disingenuous faggot.
>advocates for murder because "it isn't a human until it's out of the womb!!!"
>calls anyone else on the planet disingenuous
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You know what's really crazy? I heard hitler liked dogs.
You know what's really crazy? I heard that the founder of Planned Parenthood was an outright public proponent of eugenics and surprisingly enough, Planned Parenthood kills more "racially impure" children than any other cause on earth.
Those crazy Democrats, am I right?
Planned parenthood didn't offer abortions until four years after the omninazi you're painting died but sure, when's facts ever gotten in the way of a good hate?
>/pol/ hates black people
> constantly shitposts about PP because "its a secret eugenics plot to kill black babies!"
At least keep your retardedly edgy ideology consistent
Margaret Sanger was anti-abortion you absolute weapon.
>we didn't get to put our plan into motion until four years after the person who planned it died
>hundreds of millions of murders later that means it never happened
Abortion's not murder unless you're literally retarded in which case I see why eugenics is your snarl word.
Whaaat? Nobody would ever be less than honest with an image macro of some famous person saying things! It's preposterous on the face of it.
>marxists claim to hate racists and claim to want disarmament because muh children
>constantly bitches to have the government fund a racist child murder and mammograms service
At least keep your retardedly edgy ideology consistent
Margaret Sanger was anti-abortion.
"Before going farther I wish to quote the very Reverend W. R. Inge, Dean of St. Paul’s Cathedral, London, who has written that “the real alternative to birth control is abortion.” It is an alternative that I cannot too strongly condemn. Although abortion may be resorted to in order to save the life of the mother, the practice of it merely for limitation of offspring is dangerous and vicious. "
Sanger, Jan 1932
It's just kind of hilarious that the anti-choice racists are trying to pick fights with an anti-choice racist. And she still comes off better because she was living in 1932 when essentially everyone was.
>I need to push my political agenda if I'm ever going to purge all these negroes
>Better tell the absolute truth at all times in public
>Oh but I also support abortion in certain circumstances
She can't even stop supporting aborting for the duration of one quote where she's lying about not supporting abortion.
>is proved wrong
>"Y-YEAH WELL SHE LIED"
come on man accept you're an embarrassment already
It's pretty funny that socialists and democrats meet at the intersection of their eugenics politics
Can you just go back to /pol/? I'm sure they all miss you.
What part of "planned parenthood is a eugenics program founded by a proponent of eugenics and it murders millions of children almost entirely of "impure" races" did you prove wrong again?
Um... Don't worry, sweetie, I'll wait
>mfw I banned everything from abortion to faggots to avoid any kind of political flaming at the table
He was apparently right-on on that.
Goalposts, man, they're shifting. You supposedly proved that Sanger was a eugenicist who wanted to abort black babies (nice weasel on "impure races" though). Sanger hated abortion, so that's clearly not true and the only defence against that is "all reported and published views on that were lies", which is "blatantly make shit up because I'm losing" territory.
Planned Parenthood is a birth control programme founded by a proponent of eugenics. She was born in 1879; a lot of old-timey people had shitty views about racism and eugenics. There's a good chance any given thing in america is and it doesn't change good work it does today because literally nobody cares about that.
Abortion isn't murder of a child unless you're braindead and think that a clump of cells is the same thing as a toddler. If this is the case, again, humans are built to murder babies and have done so for hundreds of thousands of years. Additionally, Planned Parenthood's biggest service by miles is pregnancy testing (1.2 million) which makes a mockery of the "It's just for abortions" stat.
As for the ludicrous allegation that Planned Parenthood exists to exterminate the blacks, this has never been true. MLK himself praised the work Planned Parenthood had done to provide the same services to black women as they did to white women. This meant giving all women a choice. I'm not surprised a greater proportion of black women need abortions than white women; having less access to healthcare and less income to spend on childcare are associated with being poor, shockingly, and black people tend to be poorer, because racism. But nobody's forcing black women to choose abortions and there's other planning services which PP also provides which they were instrumental in making sure black women got.
I'd accept an apology but failing that more autistic screeching is good.
>they just murder children it's not eugenics because I've been taught to dehumanize them so they aren't children
Um... try again sweetie
For context this is "Black people don't trust white people, so we don't want them to start spreading rumours this is an extermination programme". Which is a pretty reasonable thing for a black person to assume and for a white person concerned with reproductive health to want to ward against in the early 1900s in the US.
>literally making excuses for a philosophy that advocates the genocide of people who are different
Well I guess you are a marxist so it really does make sense
You're sure murdering my braincells right now.
>poorer, because racism
Oh sweet summer child
There's two types of campaigns, GM-created and collaborative. If the GM creates the whole setting and says nobody practices abortion or would ever even conceive of it, that's the truth of the setting. If the setting is collaborative then if you want to include something like that in the game, talk with your GM but he still probably has final say on what is and is not kosher.
D&D is mechanics, not a setting. Saying that D&D does or does not include a certain social practice or cultural phenomenon is like telling somebody that pick-up trucks do or do not contain poodles.
Please explain what traits a foetus shares with a 5-year old.
Your reading comprehension isn't amazing, is it? The quote's about her trying to set up the unfortunately-named "negro programme", the initiative to extend planned parenthood services to black people since segregation was still a thing. There is no genocide except in your insane logic.
You realise this entire topic is bait and nobody under forty who's allowed by papa to touch a computer actually seriously thinks any of that, right?
Personhood. If you murder a pregnant woman it counts as double homicide.
>This is what black supremacists actually believe
There are people that will want abortions, for a variety of reasons.
There are methods, both mundane and magical, to achieve an abortion.
Abortion exists, unless the GM specifically states that it is either biologically impossible in this world, or the gods forbid it or something.
Is this racism or reverse-racism I'm losing track of the /pol/ diarrhoea tap.
Foetuses aren't people. They don't have consciousness, reasoning, self-motivation, communication, or awareness.
>I've been taught to dehumanize the victims of a eugenics program
>I feel gratified by repeating what I've been told to think
>child murder and mammograms service
PP has zero accredited mammogram clinics in the US.
Zero.
They are a straight murder mill. Sixty million and counting since 1973.
THEY AREN'T PEOPLE YOU FUCKING SHITLORD
YOU CAN SELL THEIR TISSUE FOR HUMAN MEDICAL RESEARCH
BUT THEY ARE NOT PEOPLE
>sixty million
Fucking hell. Just ten holocausts, no big deal.
>>I feel gratified by repeating what I've been told to think
which is EXACTLY what you're doing now
But can you dehumanise something that's not a person? Makesuthink.
>anti-choice racists
Are you saying that everyone who is "anti choice" is racist as well?
>Please explain what traits a foetus shares with a 5-year old
-A unique genetic code created from parts of both parents' genes
-Functioning organs: brain, heart, muscles, bones...
-Sensory apparatus and ability to feel pain
-An incompletely developed mind and decision making pathway
-Active metabolism that depends on oxygen and sugars (or ATP, depending on how low-level you want to get)
-The inability to survive on its own without care from adult members of the species
So if you're okay with ending one, you ought to be okay with ending both, right? Or is the closing of the Foramen Ovale the thing that Makes Us Truly Human?
Protip, I didn't even start on the ethical and philosophical commonalities between an unborn and a 5-year-old; since you spelled it "fϾtus," I assumed you were one of those "science only, no such thing as human rights" types.