Exalted /exg/

Make a clash attack (Fervent Blow). Note the damage you did. Make a counterattack (Flashing Edge of Dawn). Add the damage you did with the clash to the counter. Continue through the steps of Flashing Edge of Dawn as normal.

When a guy attacks you in melee at any time, you can activate Over-and-Under Method for 7m, 1wp.

This allows you to activate Fervent Blow for free to Clash that attack (even if it's not your turn in the initiative order). (see pg202 for special Clash rules)

After the opposed attacks of Fervent Blow's Clash are resolved, but before the actual damage and other effects of the Clash are resolved, you then activate Flashing Edge of Dawn for free.

Resolve the attack roll generated by the counterattack generated by Flashing Edge of Dawn, but do not resolve damage yet.

Now, if Flashing Edge of Dawn's attack was successful, add the damage it would've done to the damage that Fervent Blow will do.

Resolve Fervent Blow's damage n' such.

You have now activated a single Charm (disregarding anything else you want to modify it with, like multiple excellency uses)! A Charm which didn't even count as your action this round! I hope all the math was worthwhile to say, narratively, "A guy was gonna hit me, but then I hit him instead."

One roll in Fate. Just saying.

>One roll in Fate. Just saying.
BS. Fate Core has no such ability and *if* you add that in, you can add it in however you want. I could require you to suceed at an athletics roll to negate the opponents attack before you can the fight roll and still require you to activate an aspect to be able to act out of turn in the first place.

So yeah. You're just saying BS.

Think we're going to get actual stats for third circle demons this edition?

It would depend entirely upon the character for me. If I were a Dawn for example, all of my Charms, every last one of them, would be put towards either killing my enemies, or not being killed by them. If I were a Zenith, I'd put them towards social-fu, to bend people to my will, etc.

Also "meaningful alteration" is a pretty variable term there. What one person considers meaningful will be different from what another does, and you can do a lot, and I mean A LOT, with just piling dice up. Dice are how you resolve pretty much everything, after all.

I'm having difficulty parsing what this question is actually asking.
For one, you're going to have to define what you mean by 'dice trick' because if you just mean charm that interacts with the mechanics then I'd like as many charms to be like that as possible. Also for some reason you seem to think that whatever a dice trick is doesn't allow new and meaningful decisions.
Mind giving me an example of each type?

Probably first quarter 2018.

So, here's the narrative we're trying to tell: "GuyA attacks GuyB with a sword. GuyA misses and is hit in return by GuyB's sword."

In unmodified Fate Core: GuyA rolls a Fight Attack. GuyB defends with Fight. They both roll once. GuyB succeeds by 3, parrying GuyA and putting the Aspect "Wounded" on him to disadvantage him in the future. On GuyB's turn, he's free to do whatever, because he hasn't used his action yet.

One roll on each side, no special abilities.

In Exalted: GuyA spends four hours figuring out what combination of Charms to use to modify his attack against GuyB. He checks off some resources and looks up stats on his ongoing permanent and scene-long Charms and his various artifacts. He compiles a spreadsheet of bonuses to roll an attack against GuyB.

GuyB activates Over-and-Under Method. After posting on Veeky Forums to figure out how the poorly wording fucker actually works, he spends another four hours figuring out what combination of active and indefinite abilities will modify his first Clash. Does he want to reroll 1? Get double 9s? Double 8s? Do 10s get doubled on Decisive damage or is that just Withering? Do I have a Charm that does that? Shit, if I spend 5 motes this round my Anima will flare. Will that give me enough for the next round to add my +2 Soak Charm?

For good measure, he looks up the page reference the Charm gives to make sure he's doing it right. He makes his first Clash attack. It succeeds! He then makes a counterattack, which has its own special rules (which required errata from the dev, so lets hop on the Exalted forum for that shit), modifies it with a bunch of dicetricks, parcels out his resources, and makes another roll.

Then he rolls damage and spends an hour and a half going over his damage Charms and on which step of attack resolution they can be activated on. GuyA then counters with some defensive stuff to modify his Soak and Hardness.

Eventually, GuyA takes damage and a wound penalty that disadvantages him later.

I find this more likely to be when we see Dragon-Blooded. Arms is in three months, minimum. DBs will still need to be worked on for a while before the Kickstarter even happens, as they've said they don't even want to try that until the book is finished this time.

Wow, literally 8+ hours? Are GuyA and GuyB just illiterate?

Hyperbole aside, he is right that doing this in Exalted is going to require more rolling and more lookups than it would in FATE.

But if you're already the sort of player who doesn't go into panic attacks upon seeing levels of crunch above the very basic, this isn't going to be a fucking problem for you.

Honestly user, this is kind of a horseshit example and a pretty terrible strawman all rolled into one.

It doesn't take nearly that long to make an attack roll or decide what charms to use, unless they seriously have some kind of mental disability. Shit, it doesn't take more than a few seconds if they're doing it right.

You're /dramatically/ overplaying how complicated this is. To an absurd degree.

Trips do not lie. If you can handle any edition of D&D, then you can handle Exalted 3E.

Not really. He's not using an apples-to-oranges comparison. The situation could also be modelled by a mundane clash attack, with roughly the same amount of maths as the Fate example.

No shit, if you add 700 magical powers, it complicated the system, but 700 magical powers would be complicated, regardless of whether the base system was Fate or Ex3.

Fair point. Solar Counterattack could do it too in just one go, provided you wanted your attack to be decisive. Over-and-Under is just there to make your riposte hit potentially extra hard.

Firstly, I appreciate that you were able to parse my dramatic hyperbole. Your ability to not take everything at its most literal is a kind of superpower here, I think.

You are also correct that there exists a certain kind of person who is willing and able to put forth the effort to shoulder Exalted's mechanical load with little, if any, detrimental effect on the pacing of the game (though, I'd argue, with little benefit).

However, I would like to put forth the following.

One. nobilis.me/doom-and-gloam
This is a game being run by the current head developer of the line, being played in by a mix of people that have contributed as writers for Exalted and their personal friends. They still constantly have to stop and ask how things work, and take time out to look things up, and rely on the GM to give them cues for stuff, and occasional go "Fuck, I dunno how this works. Uh, lets just do X." and so on.

Two. These general threads, going back years, have always been rife with people complaining about not having groups or, more so, having shitty groups. Or aggressively accusing one another of never having actually played the game to cover for the fact that the accuser has not actually played the game.

Perhaps, then, that this specific kind of individual is (1) uncommon, (2) often overlaps with personality traits that make them undesirable to play with for other reasons.

Perhaps a system that does absolutely everything Exalted does, but has less of a system mastery barrier, and therefore a wider potential player base, would be a positive thing.

imgur.com/rXP7RFY

This is why you don't engage with the Exalted fandom on the internet.

Fate fans and their "it does absolutely everything your system does" bullshit.

I would counter however that the game still seems to be thriving pretty well despite rules checks and occasional uncertainty, and the players don't really seem all that bad to have at the table.

And hell, even when I last played FATE rules lookups and especially asking the GM for cues happened plenty.

It's not the problem of the reader to recognize hyperbole, user, it's how it completely muddies your point and makes you look like a bitter jackass.

PS so does the unsolicited plugging for fate as the answer to "how does charm work"

We better. And they should be Solar tier, in terms of power.

Or else what, user? What are you going to do if you don't, or if they aren't?

Post on the internet about it, obviously.

Have some art for being a cheeky little monkey.

I'm a gorilla, thank you.

Either way, they lose nothing by actually statting things out. The worst that could happen is they put out shitty stats for something, in which case, they can be eratta'd or ignored anyway.

I feel like Third Circle Demons are probably tied with Deathlords for the strongest NPCs in the setting that actually should have at least some stats.

On consideration, maybe my frustration is that, in having played in and GMed multiple campaigns of both Fate and Exalted over the course of years (starting at around the same time; when I branched out from D&D), and enjoyed both, I've come to a situation where I feel I can properly articulate why I think Fate's steamlined nature is superior for telling the same kind of story, but I don't think I've ever been given a proper explanation for the opposite perspective.

How does Exalted's granularity in terms of its multitude of powers, its buckets of dice, and its many-step resolution process better convey the fiction of a group of demigods unleashing their will onto a world that is lesser than them and reaping the consequences?

There is an answer, certainly, because as we can see, merely suggesting the opposite causes vitriol in all these Exalted superfans. So there is an answer! They just can't articulate what it is.

Why does a Magical Super Ninja require a discreet power to suggest that he may balance on a leaf, and another to say that he can strike swiftly, and another to say that he deals great harm to those he strikes? Why can we not simply agree that these are things a Magical Super Ninja could certainly do and, when there is conflict in our agreement, we roll dice? Why must we catalogue his every trick and power, and create a list of all the powers that he explicitly *cannot* do, until he purchases them?

Sure, we can do these things. They might not even harm our enjoyment. But why do them at all?

You could turn the argument around completely and ask why not have discrete powers for these things. My ability to drive a car or carve wood has nothing to do with my ability to drive a battle tank or sculpt wood. They're just different approaches to answer the same problem. What you should be explaining is why you prefer one over the other, but you should also understand it is a matter of preference, not objective quality. Your taking issue with how Exalted's designers chose to answer the question is someone else's issue with how Fate's designers chose to, otherwise.

Deathlords need more logical stats though. The last 2 editions basically gave them everything PC's could ever have, retarded mote pools, plus a shitton of extra advantages atop that, and no weaknesses ghosts should have, plus they went out of the way to make Charms that should work on them, not work on them.

I understand they want "hurr I'm the boss type enemy", but shit. A Deathlord probably could've reasonably just walked into Creation at any time and punched a direction to death with half the shit they had access to. They didn't even need any plans or Contagions or whatever, their raw rule shit was more than enough to topple the setting.

Generally, 1e and 2e combat was 'balanced' around the idea that charm activation and action-tracking was going to be your big tactical choice. Since the game did not really present or push a battle-map or similar means of tracking character location information, the onus of 'meaningful game decisions' landed on 'Can I activate a Charm? What Charm should I activate? Can I afford to activate This or That?"

Like- any Simple Charm is intended to be a very clear "I am powering up. Do not let me power up." gameplay challenge. Of course we understand the whiff/splat nature of the game much better now, so that stopped being a fun choice.

Related to that, exalted 2e especially seemed to... 'want' for lack of a better term, more non-attack actions to happen during combat. You spend time readying weapons, taking movement actions, activating Charms and so on. And other mechanics denied you from attempting flurries like unstable footing or mounted combat.

And, fundamentally, one has to ask the critical question- are you here to play a combat game with game-style tactical choices and decisions, or a more narrative experience? 2e Combat in particular tried to do both and kinda stumbled hard.

Think of it like this- some people want 'combat' to be balanced from mortals up to say, Solars or 3rd Circles; they want any combat to feel like there's always a meaningful ebb and flow between players and opponents. That mortals can be threatening, or DBs, or 1cds, and so on.

Other people want the game to make statements of 'I am immune to the petty ire and steel of mortals- come face me, supernatural might alone!'

A lot of 2e Exalted was actually implicity intended to almost sort challenges into 'Are you supernatural or not' and a lot of people disliked that.

Back to the earlier question- some of the reason why Charms are so granular is because it's easier to remember instead of having a kind of large, all-in one 'Exalts do this' blurb to refer to.

Why use dice and rules when you can just think about a magical super ninja and jack off?

Group A prefers heavier rules with less "Can I do this, guy running the game?"

Group B prefers lighter rules and doesn't mind leaving more up to GM adjudication.

Your preference is not better than mine because you make ostentatious walls of text.

Also fate a shit, you a shit.

Personally when I played FATE I always found it to be a little bit on the swingy side; it was somewhat difficult at times to stack enough bonuses to make a major influence on the range of the Fudge dice. Not always, mind, but it happened enough times to note it.

But yeah, honestly, I feel the answer is just going to be one of preference.

The granularity in Exalted's powers help me realize the fantasy of playing as one of the Solar Exalted whose powers are derived from his skill. Your example of Magical Super Ninja doesn't work because each Exalt is highly individual and not all of them are capable of balancing on leaves or striking swiftly. Ten Leaf Kon, the Solar, has far different abilities to Perfect Soul, also a Solar.

That is my main complaint with rules lite Exalted systems, everyone feels the same. Plus, I just enjoy the crunch aspect of Exalted.

Yeah, I don't want to see no "lol mask of winters has every goddamn solar charm" shit.

Because user, it is fun, to some, and they make the world feel more real, to others.

Now, for people who I do not count myself as one of, rolling dice is fun. And for some of these people, rolling dice modified with their signature power, supported by charms chosen for their mechanical efficiency poses an interesting puzzle. A game, not one of roleplaying, in that moment, but one of logic. Solving the puzzle of how to win the fight becomes the enjoyment, not the winning itself.

The other reason is that the more granular the powers, the more coherent the relative power levels become. What happens when 2 magic fate ninjas fight? Does the elder win? The one who trained harder? What if the one who trained harder trained in a weaker technique? Instead of putting this to arbitration the answer becomes simple. "Roll the dice, fucker" Not to say you can't have a coherent world without that granularity, just for some, like I, knowing exactly how strong someone is compared to another, instead of trying to reverse engineer from how strong someone is supposed to be feels much better.

The first thing that strikes me is that losing that level of mechanical granularity makes almost all exalts similar. If you simply have the trait 'can do cool things like balance on leaves' what makes one exalt different from another? Sure you could make them all into individual traits, 'can accomplish amazing bodily feats' 'can sway nations with his songs' 'can pierce a swallow from one hundred yards with an arrow' and so on, but at that point why not go all the way and make cool fun flavourful charms?
And that brings me to realize it's ultimately personal preference. Sure you could represent things in a more streamlined way like FATE but at the end of the day some people simple do not like that. They find it bland and boring for no particular reason, and like playing with all the mechanical bits instead.

>So there is an answer! They just can't articulate what it is.

Seems like people are perfectly capable of articulating why that is.

That whole having entire charmsets thing also made them completely monolithic. Sure lover was supposed to be this seductive social beguiler, but she also had every melee archery thrown dodge resistance awareness and war charm. She could totally 360 no scope one shot a tyrant lizard. Outside of their very few unique powers fighting any one deathlord was precisely the same as fighting all the others.

>Why does a Magical Super Ninja require a discreet power to suggest that he may balance on a leaf, and another to say that he can strike swiftly, and another to say that he deals great harm to those he strikes? Why can we not simply agree that these are things a Magical Super Ninja could certainly do and, when there is conflict in our agreement, we roll dice? Why must we catalogue his every trick and power, and create a list of all the powers that he explicitly *cannot* do, until he purchases them?
>Sure, we can do these things. They might not even harm our enjoyment. But why do them at all?
Same reason we classify him as a Magical Super Ninja in the first place: Structure. Sure, we can classify him as a Magical Super Ninja, and doing so might not even harm our enjoyment, but why do it at all? Because if we don't, the thing we're dealing with gets fuzzier. Can he run up walls? Shoot eye lasers? Translate the writing on an ancient temple wall?

If we just know he's Awesome, these questions are hard to answer. If we know he's a Magical Super Ninja, they become easier. If we know he has spent 6 xp to purchase Infinite All-Seeing Eye of Ancient Arts Long Forgotten, it becomes really, really simple. Different people will prefer different breakpoints, but it shouldn't be hard to see why people might prefer a different spot than you do.

...That's true!

But I'm not so much making an argument as, earnestly, asking "why?" As in, no really, give me your completely personal and subjective opinion. Why are these things good? Why do they feel good? Why does their absence feel bad?

I feel like I've made my own opinion plain. I don't like discreet powers because they feel constraining. My ninja can either balance on a leaf or he can't, no middle ground, based on whether he bought the Charm. And there are many Thrown Charms that all describe that I am good at throwing in different ways, but all I care about is how good I am at throwing, and not in what ways! The many ways, +damage here, +initiative here, etc, etc, they just feel like they get in the way of us telling the story of this ninja.

What sort of awesome story 'beats' have you had, when you've slammed your character sheet on the table and said, "No, motherfucker! This Charm says I can fucking throw this shit in exactly this way! There is no ambiguity here, so get thee fucked!" Does that happen? I dunno, that's sort of how I'm imagining the "discreet powers are better" thing going. They're discreet, but they're defined.

Aspects and such are less defined. The beats I enjoy are about that ambiguity. I ask the GM, "Can my ninja pin his shadow to the wall with a shuriken?" and the GM says, "I dunno, can you?" and I say "Fuck yeah!" and cool things happen. Cool things that couldn't happen if I needed a Charm to do that.

What is the cool beat that happens with less ambiguity and more definition? It's not an argument, I'm not putting you or your favorite game down, I just want to know!

A lot of you guys posted your opinions while I was writing this.

Just wanted to say 'thank you'. I've been posting here for years and never got good answers like these.

Yeah, I never want to see them having that stuff ever again.

This was also another problem. I really hope they do a better job with the DL's this time around, and don't just push the "PC+5" button again.

>I ask the GM, "Can my ninja pin his shadow to the wall with a shuriken?" and the GM says, "I dunno, can you?" and I say "Fuck yeah!" and cool things happen. Cool things that couldn't happen if I needed a Charm to do that.

Actually, Charms are there to facilitate doing things easier/without a roll. Not that they replace the ability to do so without a roll. Your Exalt can balance on the thinnest branch with a roll if he succeeds, but a Charm might let him do it automatically.

I was rolling dice and coherent power level user.

I suppose the best way to describe the difference is that between a group storytelling game and a more competitive mechanical one. When things are defined you have a much better chance of a mechanically cohesive and enjoyable mechanical experience, and the less defined the better chance of a satisfying group story creation experience.

I personally prefer the latter but I'm also autistic about relative power levels so when victory is achieved it means more that "The DM in 3 seconds didn't see anything wrong with your idea and so let it happen because any deeper deliberation would ruin the game flow." That kind of experience can be fun, especially in a one shot like Fiasco, but when I'm playing tens of sessions of game I want to make sure me and my players are getting what they deserve, and not just the coolest "visuals" in their story

At least not until they earn. And if you earn it, it always means that much more.

I agree Deathlords should be started, but 3CDs aren't just folks with superpowers, they're often conceptual things that don't engage in the same way as a humanoid would.

I'd like rules for engaging, say, Ligier, but fighting Ligier should be like something out of Shadow of the Colossus (but more abstract) rather than swording him to death.

Impossible should be the province of charms. I get what you are saying, but not limiting a character in any way is worse than limiting him too much. The best art is born from limitation.

The more freeform a game is, the more often it drives itself into a wall. Very few people feels empowered when everything is equally possible. Exalted is in a perfect balance between absolute power and absolute limitations, and that a big part of what is so interesting about it.

Pinning a shadow to a wall is a Thrown or MA charm. You can get it. Like all charms, you can even buy it on the fly, provided you have the xp and prerequisites. What you can't is simply willing it out of thin air.

Everything should be susceptible to the good ol' fashioned murdering. One thing Exalted was always pretty up front about was just killing your problem was a way to solve that problem.

Note it might not (in some cases, definitely not) be the best way to resolve your problem. But a good ol' murderin' should always remain an option. So should every other possible way of dealing with a problem. I'm not advocating only swording something in the face until it goes away, just that it should never NOT be an option to deal with something.

...

>I'd like rules for engaging, say, Ligier, but fighting Ligier should be like something out of Shadow of the Colossus (but more abstract) rather than swording him to death.

Mm, I'm not sure I totally agree, at least in the case of Ligier. Some of the...weirder 3CDs like Munaxes, I could see being handled that way. But crossing swords directly with Ligier should be a totally valid thing.

>Pinning a shadow to a wall is a Thrown or MA charm. You can get it. Like all charms, you can even buy it on the fly, provided you have the xp and prerequisites. What you can't is simply willing it out of thin air.

Pinning a shadow to a wall should be a Charm. Pinning a person to a wall (via clothing, or just by putting an arrow/whatever through them so hard it pins them to a wall) should be either a roll, or something you just do with a Charm, but can and should be both.

>crossing swords with Ligier
>not doing the Eastern Tango and competing with trying to lead the dance

Yeah, I agree with this too. Honestly, if violence isn't the honest-to-god correct answer to a problem at least every once in a while, then you basically relegate the Dawn Caste to being at best a largely-agency-less meatshield minion for the rest of the Circle, and at worst an absolute damned liability.

I play more Dawn Castes than Zeniths, admittedly.

never been one for Dawns myself, though ExalTwitch's been doing a good job of giving me other thoughts.
Stupid sexy Rey

I've got my copy of 3e open and I'm having this really weird time reading through Charms. I didn't actually expect to find food for thought here.

I'm more used to the "lel faggot desu" responses, like that one user up yonder. And, when I've gone to Fate communities asking similar questions, the typical response is "But, user! You are one of us; do not concern yourself with those heavily mechanical peasants. Let us simply put our hands to our mouths and titter smugly about how long it takes them to resolve a conflict." which is pretty much the same thing but with more words.

But now I'm filled with more curiosity.

I'm looking at Fire and Stones Strike and for the first time I'm like "Fuck, I dunno. Maybe this exists for a legitimate reason." Conceptually, that line of thought is outside my comfort zone, but I'm there right now.

As I page through the core book, I still feel viscerally offended by the craft rules, but from what I've seen, that's this board's general consensus anyway. I find myself being glad that the one player in my gaming circles that was super into crafter-type characters also resolved not to play 3e until Alchemicals or Infernals came out. Which will likely be never, so I have thusly dodged a bullet.

To be fair, Dawns were completely useless in every way for 2 entire editions (until 2.5/Dawn Solution came about anyway). So not playing them was just not intentionally gimping yourself.

Now though, due to Supernals, they're the only way to really get your murderboner on.

Likewise I will freely admit that I probably would have had somewhat less enjoyment from Ex3 if I weren't mainly a Dawn and Night player who never really was into playing Craft characters in either previous edition anyway, because I do acknowledge that Craft is the most problematic of the game's systems.

Honestly, I can't name a single game that ever did crafting of any sort well. This doesn't excuse 3E crafting, but it just raises the question of why no one can make a decent crafting system. Shit just needs to be done easily and quickly, and crafting systems in games often want you to spend months of downtime on the most ridiculous things.

Congrats. You've learned a lesson most don't: engage with a game on it's own premises, mechanical or otherwise. Don't assume it's shit because you have an anchoring bias towards whatever thing you like.

Now if only we could synthesize this attitude into some kind of airborne pathogen, we could fix gaming culture because we'd be getting rid of tons of useless bickering.

And have one last character art for the night, guys.

>Deadly Beastman Transformation
>Literally worse than the ones the QCs get in the book
Dropped so fast it burned up on reentry

I think a good general life tip is to do as says, and engage something on it's own premises.

I may utterly despise D&D for being a combat simulator and bad at facilitating any experience outside of that, but I can have reasonable discussions about its pros and cons without enjoying the game. Likewise, I may not enjoy a movie, and still be able to call it a fantastic film.

You don't gotta like it, you just gotta take the time and figure out if it's doing what it's supposed to do, assuming you're trying to have a discussion on it. What it's supposed to do may have 0 appeal to you, but that doesn't mean it's not appealing to anyone

In the same way that constraints help any creative development. I already have difficulty shutting my brain up with the combinatorial nature of the possibility space. I really do appreciate it when a system tells me what my character can't do in more explicit terms so that I can see the boundaries. It also ends up giving me a really good sense of back-and-forth when I create characters since I can bounce from concept to mechanics and back again, using the implications to further hone what I'm creating.

A GM has a hard time saying "no" to a cool idea so the tendency is that looser systems trend towards "awesome." If you want to make a tragic campaign/narrative, this works against you. When the system outlines what a character can't do in more explicit terms, it is essentially telling the player "no" in place of the GM, who can use GM-player goodwill for more meaningful denials. Looser systems can compensate for this by getting the player to also pitch against the PC sometimes, but this doesn't afford the GM much control over the nature of the tragedy and that can diminish cohesion. It also complicates the player's role at the table and most players tend not to GM because they can't take the added complexity of wearing many hats.

I love light, narrative systems in that they let the group cover so much more ground than crunchy systems. I love crunchy systems in that they reveal scene resolutions that the group couldn't have thought of without concrete prompting. Light systems don't get in the way at inconvenient times. Crunchy systems inherently back me up when my brain goes "but the established reality doesn't let you do that!"

I'd be interested in hearing how you typically run really restrictive narratives (e.g. fatalistic tragedy, horror, psychological) using a light system, without everyone effectively being a GM (e.g. Polaris).

By the same token, if every problem can be solved by sufficient application of violence, every other caste becomes nothing but cloak-holders for the Dawn.

I'm not saying their shouldn't be any violence required to dispatch Ligier, but it should be one step (possibly the last) of a process of dismantling him. If Ligier represents Malfeas pride and potency, then killing him should be a process of humbling and disempowering him. Overwhelming him in martial combat may be necessary, but not sufficient.

>By the same token, if every problem can be solved by sufficient application of violence, every other caste becomes nothing but cloak-holders for the Dawn.

True, but I never really implied otherwise.

>I'm not saying their shouldn't be any violence required to dispatch Ligier, but it should be one step (possibly the last) of a process of dismantling him. If Ligier represents Malfeas pride and potency, then killing him should be a process of humbling and disempowering him. Overwhelming him in martial combat may be necessary, but not sufficient.

That's a bit more reasonable, I think. Give the issue hooks for every sort of character to be able to make a meaningful contribution.

Does that include the manufacture of magical items?

I'm guessing it's because you made it extremely clear how much you hate Exalted and its fans every time you "honestly" "asked". Your "question" was simply a variation of

>Why are you all so stupid that you like this?

This is not the kind of question that you ask when you want an answer. This is the kind of "question" that you announce when you don't think there even is an answer and want to make that clear to everyone.

Don't look at Fire And Stones Strike. Look at One Weapon Two Blows.

The reason I suggest this.is because while FaSS has been pretty much the exact same thing for 3 Editions, 1W2B had changed each time. In Ex1 it was a straightforward action multiplier; hit twice instead of once without dicepool-splitting. In Ex2, mass Flurries became a core system element so it was relegated to a somewhat shit soeedbump.

In Ex3, though, it's something quite different. I didn't even realise this until I ran a campaign with a somewhat under-optimised Dawn, but the current One Weapon Two Blows is actually an entire combat approach hidden in a single Charm. The ability to make instant Decisives after pulling someone from high to low Initiative actually encourages you to create a character who doesn't max out JB and doesn't use artifact light weapons etc etc as the basic rules would suggest. Instead, you want to go second, eat up the initial attack and then come back with a two-up of deadly force that bypasses the game's inherent construction against single-turn kills. The way both the player and I approach the mechanics shifts immensely once this is in play; I can no longer rely on l tick-ticking up and down the Initiative track with my NPCs until one can Crash them.

And that's from one Charm. There are dozens and dozens and dozens of others that have similar (and often much more subtle - note Excellent Strike's ability to shut down "I feed on your failure" mechanics) ability to modify the expected mechanical flow of the game. The game's framework becomes contextual; not a sandbox for concepts like light games, but an ever-shifting maze of possible options.

Running Exalted 3E was a constant flow of surprises for me. You don't get that from FATE.

Do we actually know wtf happened with OK Holden and Morke? Did RichT just finally get sick of being docked around? Did Holden virtue signal so hard his Twitter caught fire?

All I can find is people Darkly Hinting and some griping about Miracles of the Solar Exalted. What actually happened?

So what is Exalted, like really? I know you told me OP, but almost any system can do that. What makes Exalted so good?

The high flying part.

With the right amount of charm, I can fly as much as one mile in the air. With sorcery I can fly several miles in the air, and very fast too. No other game is high flying like that.

D&D is low flying and slow flying too. Godbound is pathetic flying in comparison. The flying levels of WoD is usually so low I don't even.

How realistically can someone use Striving Aftershock Method and a high defense to just keep making grapple over and over again, relying on the bonus dice granted for giving up control to keep slamming the enemy with decent dicepools

>No other game is high flying like that.
[space game noises]

Space flying is no flying. Space isn't air. Checkmate.

But mister sir, what if my space game allows me to make a character that flies through the upper layers of Jupiter or the clouds of Bespin?

If such a game existed, it would be a higher flying game, alright.

Exalted will always be the highest flying in my heart. You can't remove that bond.

Let's be honest 2e was pretty much the following decision-tree

1) Did you have access to a paranoia combo

if NO then you die,

if yes then 2) can you maintain your combo through an extended period of time through 2-dice stunts

if No then better hope you are only fighting DBs or spirits

if yes then 3) can you spam instadeath attacks (grand goremauls, bad touch, instagib attacks) whenever your opponent burns through their essence pool

if NO then avoid most solaroids and if yes welcome to the big time.

Combat was incredibly slow and incredibly predictable because your essence pool/essence burn rate/paranoia combo basically dictated everything. You could just look at the stats and not really have to play stuff out at all and indeed it was often better to just handwave instead of playing out an incredibly long and boring duel.

2.5 improved this some but fundamentally the paradigm was broken just broken in a different way than 1e and the scene-long persistent defenses which made solars invincible.

My experience with 3e is still limited but in general the paradigm has been shifted but of course it makes a bunch of old time players mad that essence 1 solars can't effortlessly curbstomp a shit-ton of DBs at chargen anymore.

Boohoo

? Why did he get banned?

Because some forums don't find wishing violence on real people acceptable. As far as I'm concerned, such forums have their place, too. Veeky Forums with its anonymity is great, but actually moderated forums with established usernames have both advtantages and disadvantages compared to that.

>threaten someone over the internet
>cyber bullying is bad
This is a problem? I mean he could be shitposting

Your point, user?

I don't think he should get banned just because he wants someone to get beaten up

Okay. The moderators at SV disagree. This is because people expressing their desire to see other people getting beaten does not foster the kind of atmosphere that place strives for. It is a good thing that forums are allowed have their own rules instead of all being forced into the same mold, so what's the problem here?

After testing the combat, my ST has decided we won't be switching to 3e. Tell me fun storytimes to cheer me up.

Killing Ligier may not be the best choice. It might not even be the choice you want to make. Killing him might cause so many problems that, under no circumstances, would you ever want to kill him.

But killing him should always at least be an option on the table.

Wait, why?

For the love of God, at least 3E uses turns

1) Did you have access to a paranoia combo
if NO then
2) is your ST interested in breaking the game when you won't just because of leftover antagonism from tactical boardgames / D&D or perhaps just to prove a point
if NO then
3) congratulations, your group seem to indeed be able to do which many roleplayers cannot, have fun with their pretend games. Enjoy Exalted!

The problem is that the other user is Notanautomaton and pissed at getting banned.

RichT used materials cut from Core for Miracles. Since it is material cut from the book Holden and Morke were contracted for they didn't get paid for it. Since it's material published in a book they were not contracted for they didn't get paid for that either.
That's the TLDR from the two developers. Rich has not given OPP's version and never will, given how he seems to be made a nervous wreck from the slightest hint of questioning or criticism.
You know what I think? Rich and Holden/Morke are each overblown assholes in their own way and they pretty much ruined each other. Fine by me.

What's funny is, Holden and Morke knew this was OPP policy for years. They saw the same thing happen back in 2nd edition when they were working on Broken Wing Crane. They signed their contract with Rich for 3rd edition, knowing well in advance that he could and would do something just like this.

And then they get their panties in a twist when he does the thing they knew he was going to. Fuck 'em.