Song of Swords: Pike block edition

As in real life.

>but assault rifles--

Armies that don't consist of raving durkas tend to use their assault rifles in single shot mode 99 percent of the time.

This isn't clearly reflected in the rules, but rifle cartridges fired in space ships can pierce the hull and release a deadly gas contained in the superstructure. So pistol cartridges are the biggest round you can use most of the time. In the close, stop and pop quarters of a ship, SMGs are fantastic. Dat +8 dice.

b-buh muh suppresive fire

Sorry, void ships and not space ships. Real ships aren't made of whale bone.

Mooostly the job of the guy with the SAW, but even then a section of troops can suppress fairly well with rapid single fire too. Burst/auto fire is just not terribly commonly used by riflemen outside of emergencies.

Does it make sense for historical SMG troops to use SMGs in the current system?

I wouldn't know, I haven't been looking too deeply at Ballad. I just know that most of the time, modern professional armies tend to use their rifles in semi-auto mode because this is just plain better than spray-and-pray 99 percent of the time.

What?

I was drawing from 's point and wondering if it had much validity and if it would render things like Soviet SMG platoons/companies as ineffective fighting forces.

Two questions for the thread:

First, if an user made a character creation program for you, would you prefer for it to be web-based, or would you rather have it be a standalone application? It should also be noted that whatever choice you all make, it will still be capable of exporting the character as a txt.

Second, any idea how long the most recent rules are going to stay 1.9.9? I really don't want to build this thing and have the rules change partway through. That's just demoralising.

SMGs are really fucking good, so they work pretty well as in history.

1. An application means when the rules DO update, you'll need to make a new application. A web based program would be updateable, no?
2. Do it anyway you absolute madman

Except at 200m when a guy with a Republic Arms 1776 can just remove most of your chest by sneezing

Yeah but is that actually a problem?

Are you walking around outside of cover? Are you never entering buildings or cities? Submachine guns excelled in urban combat, within buildings, on streets, where range is much less important. Obviously if you're in an open field, a rifle will do better, but most actual engagements are going to happen at closer range.

RAW a 1776 functions as well at 10m as 200m and can still be used to make peoples' respiratory systems turn into mist from behind cover just like an SMG

Agh but my friend I can pull a full-auto with my Blish 19 and get far more dice on demand instead of having to aim first.

Some more differentiation for close-quarters might still be nice though.

gib thoughts

I don't hate it but I'm not sure if I like it.

I was thinking of the bonus from Full Auto halving with each range increment you pass. Would that help? Anything you particularly don't like?

+2 dice for aim-shoot is a lot fewer dice than +8 for full auto.

I don't think it needs to be any worse, I'm not sure I like how range as whole works right now but I don't have the expertise to say if it's realistic or not.

Bumping for interest.

Does anyone have some advice for statting up some simple mooks, or perhaps some simple mooks already statted from your private games?

Also, I assume the best way to learn the combat is to build characters and throw them at each other?

Generally speaking I just give mooks 5s in everything and 8 proficiency. 13 CP is a good number.

Anyone looking to start up a game/group?

Anyone else looking at how many people backed the project from your general area and excited that other people who post here may be near you for some in person games?

>mfw 2 other backers in Brisbane

Drive round and round the city screaming "Sarah Gizka did nothing wrong" until they find you.

>Brisbane
I'm sorry for you user.
>tfw melbourne

Say I have four fighters, two teams of two.
And they fight for a while in a pitched melee, or maybe this happens just because theyve declared strangely and everyone targeted someone else, but
if A has init over C
and C has init over B
and B has init over D
but D has init over A
then who goes first?

I regularly move between these two cities!
Small world I guess.

...

Everyone dies?

The game goes on hiatus indefinitely.

I'd just start with whoever had highest ADR and go from there.

Does anyone have that picture of Gizka wearing the pepe hat? I need it.

Online game when?

Holy fuck the autism in this weapon list. I'm genuinely impressed.

What do you mean?

Come on now we know what he means, it's a much better reaction than "Justify your knifes" guy.

i dont know, the weapon list seems like it was made in a hurry, some stuff appear arbitrary to say the least.

I am open to such a discussion. No guarantees of anything however.

Well you're not going to use them all in one campaign unless you're running something very odd.

play a game where everyone is an eccentric german noble who uses some weird foreign weapon to fight
>khopesh
>urumi
>yari
etc.

A lot of that is the result of us goading Jimmy into statting things out, and him rolling with it.

You're supposed to not use them because you're supposed to be inside ships, and rifle rounds penetrate the ship's hull and risk killing everyone inside.

Good luck hitting someone at 200m with a 10m pistol

>RAW a 1776 functions as well at 10m as 200m
What? No it doesn't.

>RangeIncrement
>Theweapon’srange,firing past a weapon’s range increment grants the target +1 Defense permultipleoftherangeincrement."

Uh... It's a 200m rifle? It does 20 damage with 25 AP and counts all chest hits as chest (vitals)

10m is inside 200m friend. No range penalty. I assume you're the user who thought it was a pistol? That's the RA 1991

The best way to learn combat is to have someone teach you. If that's not possible then you want very similar characters who differ in only a couple of ways, and fight with them using basic maneuvers.

Republican arms Wrath of God 1776 is a pistol

But now I see there's apparently a rifle also called the republican arms 1776

Yeah it would suck to fire that at a guy with 23 Defence RS desu. I can see where you found the flaw in that plan

What things in particular, quadman?

Virtually all of it!
Why is a sidesword 7+1p but a rapier 6+0p? Why is a montante 7+2c while a zweihander is 7+3c? Why does flammenschwert have draw? What criteria determined the draws and +c of all the sabers, tulwar, and katana? Why are clubs better at parrying than swords?

Well, the answer is complete arbitrariness. The Montante and Zweihander are cases of bad naming. They're supposed to be just slightly different versions of large two handed swords, but instead use two different names for the same sword. The Flammenschwert has draw for unfathomable reasons, probably their guess as to what the flame blade actually is for. It's such a small level of draw it never comes up anyway. Tulwars are better at cutting purely on their reputation among the British as "better at cutting". Clubs are better at parrying for some reason, but they also get your hand fucked up if you mess up with it. The rest are completely arbitrary, to give some differentiation. It's hard to name things as slightly different variants of the same weapon, and none of these have any standardization.

How would you guys stat an early xiv century coat-of-plates?

Should I just use stats for brigandine?

Use brigandine, maybe with a tiny bit more weight.

Why are brigantine stats so bad?

Thats what I thought, thanks.

Wasn't the tulwar based on that video by scholagladiatoria guy? Basicaly that the ball at the end of the pommel forces you to use deep draw cut? Other than that its a killij.

This game says it has realistic combat. How can combat be realistic if everything is arbitrarily statted based on the writer's feelings?

That can't be so. In game stats the kilij and tulwar are very different. The kilij is longer, has thrust 8+0p instead of 7-2p, and parry 7(2) instead of 8(2). And less draw. If the video said they're the same sword, these swords are totally different

No I didn't meand that the video said its the same sword. I meant that based on it, jimmy took kilij and forced a permament deep draw cut maneuver on it. So that why its shorter range and greater draw. Annyways that was the gist of an answer i got some months ago when asking about why such a big difference between kilij and tulwar

Well that feels a little unfair, a lot of time has gone into research and there comes a point where you must simply eyeball variation for the sake of difference. Some things have gone weird as they have been tweaking but the list of weapons around them have stayed the same.

If things have different names they're like referring to different things, like where we have a bastard sword and a longsword and we know those are just the same thing but we use different names to refer to variations on that same thing that are otherwise grouped together.

Lamellar.

Wearing a Brigandine over mail, as a Coat of Plates, gives you 6/7/5 which is pretty fucking good. Alone, it's a bit oddly lackluster against cuts but will stop an arrow or a thrust better than any mail. I'd give it 6/6/4 personally, but it's pretty good armor as is. Especially if plate armor doesn't exist yet.

Things are getting changed quite frequently. Weapons have all changed since the last update, and they'll keep changing. If you have any ideas or concerns about weapons, this is exactly the time to voice them while they can be made less arbitrary.

I take it ballad would be able to handle a campaign set in a slightly magical setting with 1925 tech level? Want to run a fantasy settings First World War and thought it would be better the sos to handle the tech and magic.

Oh yeah Ballad is your girl.

Good will definitlly give it a good read. Is it magic system at lest workable compared to SoS?

I think the club's parrying ability was based on a Matt Easton video.

Montante and Zweihander represent different variations of greatsword, one of which has a less tip heavy blade and thus does less cutting damage but is easier to thrust with.

Similarly, the Sidesword would be tip heavier than the Rapier, thus the higher TN, but with a bit beefier blade and thus higher damage.

Ballad is designed for inter-war to late WWII style tech.

It just about complete so that's a step up, it may be a little strong but it's super cool and it works. I love the Way of Five, right now I'm terrified of someone with blink and a grenade launcher.

The only unfairness is claiming to have realistic combat when your weapon stats are mostly arbitrary.

Did weapons all change or did they say the same? You are sending me mixed messages. The question is why are things started the way they are? All my questions above were answered with "they just are." Here's another one: why do warhammers have AP swing but not the lucerne hammer?

I saw that video. All he said was you can party with a stick. He didn't say it was better than a sword.

Where does it actually state the interaction between shield bashes and parries? Do I need shield proficiency to bash?? Can I do a double hit with a sword/shield? Does shield AV stack with armor AV? Are shields mandatory if not two handing? They seem super good

Also what the fuck is a Hilt Push and is it good? More importantly though, is it COOL?

Hilt Push is when you lock blades with your opponent and push. It's very good in the sense that you can both declare attacks and they automatically defend against each other, and yes, it is the coolest!

>Where does it actually state the interaction between shield bashes and parries?
>Can I do a double hit with a sword/shield?
You'll find your answers in the maneuver text.
"Special: Weapon Defense Maneuvers made against a Shield Bash are made at +1 TN. Shield Bash cannot be
performed as part of any Simultaneous Maneuver, Off-Hand Maneuver or Double Attack."

>Do I need shield proficiency to bash?
No such thing, but Shield Bash is a universal maneuver.

>Does shield AV stack with armor AV?
Yes.

>Are shields mandatory if not two handing?
Not necessarily, some of the dedicated parrying daggers can be better with a lower TN and an automatic success from the Companion Weapon special rule. It's also much more conspicuous to carry a shield around a city than a Main Gauche or Truncheon. There's also the fact that most shields are fairly easy to Hew at this point, and that is not a good thing.

youtube.com/watch?v=Wq9XltdITQY

How accurate is he on the history of longhair in feudal times?

Pretty much my stance. Any other Aus/NZ anons interested in an online game?

What do you mean by arbitrary? They are all an attempt to approximate the qualities of the weapon being portrayed based on what we know of them and how they were used in the closed way we can. What would make it non-arbitrary?

Weapons have been tweaked over time and will indeed be tweaked in the future, I don't personally see it as a burning indictment of the game right now. We'll autism it out, fine folks like yourself will get on Jimmy's shit and that'll carry us home.

To answer you on the hammers, I don't actually know it's a big list we'll bring it up when Jimmy comes back around.

Your Discord?

They are definitely changing, and they have changed quite a large amount already. They will keep changing, so more complaints about them are very important.

Not really any idea how discord works but my number is #8650 if that's what you need to add me.

There is no such thing as the monolithic medieval or feudal haircut. Long, short or otherwise.

What style was in fashion entirely depended on where and when you are talking about. Then as now fashions changed over time and we have plenty of accounts of older generations complaining about young peoples shameful habits including whatever new hair fad was in vogue.

Sometimes very short hair was in fashion, think of the distinctive Norman haircut sported in 1066. But just a generation or two later fashionable Anglo-Normans looked pretty much as whathisface in the video, to the consternation of monks such as Orderic Vitalis. Another couple of generations and chin length hair was the new hotness though many wore it shorter.

It is true that Germanic (including the Norse, English and the Franks) cultures, especially in the Early Medieval period, did use hair as a mark of social status with nobility generally wearing longhair and slaves very short. Germanic laws treated damaging a persons hair very harshly and the French especially thought that the King's hair had mystical properties to the point that rivals to the throne might be forcibly shaved.

The Catholic Church generally advocated shorter hair thanks to Paul's admonition in 1 Corinthians 11:14. However what precisely constituted short hair and how much people paid attention to this varied wildly over time and space.

The current bar for when long hair begins is pretty low by historical standards, but hair past the shoulders was considered long even by medieval standards and while in vogue in many times and places it was not the norm by any stretch of the imagination if you consider medieval Europe as a whole.

Beards of course add another whole dimension of complexity and what beard went with what hair again varied massively.

The rest of his history is varied to say the least, but that is unrelated to the topic of hair.

>What would make it non-arbitrary?
Consistent criteria, of course. What you have now is highly inconsistent. Why does one saber have +1c draw 3 and another +0c draw 4? What decides what level of damage or draw a blade has? Other than curved swords have draw (except for the flammenschwert) there's no answer. Someone said sideswords are 7+1 instead of 6+0p like rapiers because it's a heavier and thicker blade. That's a start but it doesn't at all explain why a khopesh has swing 6+1c or why zweihanders have thrust 8+2p compared to montante's thrust 7+1p. And is the writer really saying montante thrust exactly as well as sideswords?
Why do clubs parry better than swords? Because the writer watched a video, apparently. Will it change when he watches another video?
You say "we." Are you one of the writers? Or is the weapon list an amalgamation of fan entries?
It seems different weapons of the same type (sabers, maces, thrusting swords) have different stats just because. Having different stats based on the writer's feelings towards them does not lead to realistic combat, and yet this game claims to have realistic combat. I don't believe its claims based on the answers I'm receiving here.
There are more oddities. Why is a claymore a 2handed sword but a basket hilted claymore is 1 handed? They look like completely different swords. So you have different names for slight variants of swords (longsword and bastard sword, zweihander and montante, gladius and short sword) and the same name for wildly different swords (these claymore)!
What is a tesshake?
And if TNs are about nimbleness like someone said above about sideswords, why is the large 2 handed club swing 6+1?

One more thing. If I am reading the weapon attachment rules correctly, you can put a reverse hammer on a club? Isn't that just a warhammer then?

And the hammer part swings at TN 7 while the club continues to swing at its own TN, which may be 6? TNs can't be about nimbleness if I read that correctly.

You seem confused none of the stats are arbitrary they are all decided upon after careful thought. No it's not the stats that are arbitrary but the the names. Which is completely realistic because every sword in it's native tongue is just "sword" (except the messer which is just knife)

Need your number and name (:

Fuck right the hell off.

Reverse attachments are smaller (therefore lighter) and less effective than weapons designed around that reverse attachments function. The situation with clubs is a bit of an oddity because of their low TN, yes, but think of it more as embedding a large lug into a bat than rebuilding it into a hammer. And you then need to hit with just that lug rather than anywhere on the bat.

>You seem confused none of the stats are arbitrary they are all decided upon after careful thought.
I cannot tell if you are joking or serious. Other people in the thread admit they're arbitrary and I see little consistency to them.