Amonkhet Spoilers

Which is baffling, since it's printed on the Cycle cards.

>NWO making magic great!

Do any of the spoiled cards so far look like they might boost some standard madness deck?

.>I enjoy playing 3 mana do nothings as a draw go control deck in a format where losing on turn 4 is common

card sucks

>Hopes for Embalm and Exert?
Not really excited for either. The whole sadomasochistic -1/-1 counters on your own dudes seems interesting though.

>Are brick tokens a gimmick?
Of course they're a gimmick.

>Will someone find a way to make infinite bugs with Nest of Scarabs?
Already been done in Modern, Standard is a matter of time.

>Things you'll be loading into your deck?
I run vampire tribal, so either nothing new, or a whole new deck.

>Thoughts on cycling lands?
I tend to run very few lands, so they aren't going to help me any.

Anything that discards
Anything that gets a bonus from discards
Cards that can bring back discarded cards

That's shitty.

The reason I brought it up was that cycling is an activated ability, the cost of which is discarding a card. So after cycling the card, the game would see that you discarded a card. Theoretically, I thought someone could stifle the cycling of the card, but you'd still draw from the discard.

But I just looked it up, and the game has a specific rule for this: whenever an ability triggers on cycling a card, it triggers upon the discard cost being paid, not the resolution of the cycling effect. Which is counter intuitive, but okay.

This is true, but it only works with the above ruling, otherwise the effects wouldn't be simultaneous.

>Kefnet the Careful can't attack or block unless you have seven or more cards in hand.
Gross.

This is going to be the number one judge question at prerelease.

WotC's own dumb NWO policy is going to force them to print a reminder on how a goddamn Or clause works.

How soon until they just get rid of the stack entirely?

Yes, but some people would think it doesn't count as discard because it's inside brackets - it counts as cycling and not discarding.

You'd be shocked what the minds of inexperienced players come up with.

>be WOTC
>have a shitty standard with no good control cards and 70% of the meta is two decks
>one of those decks is a w/u/r/g combo deck that relies on a creature
>prints a 3cmc green creature that prevents countering creatures

now imagine it was 6 instead
card is actually on the playable side and might actually be good

unfortunately Wizards has once again run into the problem where a card is "too powerful" when rounded down but completely unplayable when rounded up

they probably wanted this to be 6.5 cards in hand but that doesn't work

imo they should start rounding down for blue and red cards while green a white cards can remain rounded up for the next 4 or 5 sets. They have had their 2 years in the sun, time for other colors to have fun

I kind of feel like Green dumb aggro could be workable.

Turn 1: Blisterpod
Turn 2: Exemplar of Strength, kill the pod
Turn 3: Crocodile of the Crossing, swing for 9, gain 1 Life
Turn 4: ???
Turn 5: Victory

Or something along those lines, at least.

>imo they should start rounding down for blue and red cards while green a white cards can remain rounded up for the next 4 or 5 sets. They have had their 2 years in the sun, time for other colors to have fun

Stop.
Pendulum ideology is why we have color imbalance in the first place. Continuing the cycle doesn't do anything good, it just leads to the pendulum swinging back two years later and undoing everything.

Right now WotC is fiddling with a number of colors. There have been experiments with Blue to give them removal that isn't just a catch-all like Counterspell, meanwhile new mechanics are being added for Red and other mechanics are being aggressively costed, like Kari Zev's Expertise and Wrangle being potentially usable unlike Act of Treason.
This is a solution that moves forwards into new territory and offers actual solutions instead of merely a redistribution of problems.

Pendulum ideology is a mistake.

Wowzers. I even actually like the red one, and can't come up with any defense for this blue one at all. Wretched.

Changing blue to fit the NWO is also a mistake though, because the NWO sucks, and should not be further developed.

Creatures have power creeped their way into absurd and unfun territory thanks to the marketing department and NWO.

>pendulum ideology was a mistake
I agree but I would rather the pendulum be permanently on the blue side and have green and white go fuck themselves

the literal two most boring/worst colors have been the best for too long and that needs to change

its time for white and green to be the shitty splash colors and get the filler shit mythics and rares for a while

and the problem with them testing these new effects is that they fucking suck
the wrangle effect is terrible and will always be terrible meanwhile Green and white have had removal since forever now and have been taking mechanics from the other colors for the last few years with 0 real limitations
green has basically completely enveloped black and red and taken multiple core mechanics from them and white has just been constantly given the most undercoated overpowered cards in the sets
while blue is left out to die with nothing every single set and red gets even worse

maybe don't print shit green and white cards but just print blantantly broken and overpowerd blue and red cards ffs so that people don't have to play midrange value shit

>I would rather the pendulum be permanently on the blue side
No you don't

>Changing blue to fit the NWO is also a mistake though

What did he mean by this?
NWO refers to the policy of linking card complexity to card rarity, among other simplifications designed at making the draft environment less confusing for new players.
Take Into Custody is common.

At least it'll be another good staple for Patron of the Moon EDH, r-right?

We can dream

>kept clinging to the wrong translation because muh wijjards
you're pathetic.

Let's face it, that's not the case.

Almost every non-conditional counterspell released these days is rare, whereas the more complicated, conditional ones are uncommon at most.

The non-conditional ones we have though have some kind of second effect to them though
How many new players do you think will know how to actually counter triggered and activated abilities with Disallow?

The good common/uncommon counters we have just say counter spell of a certain type
>Dispel
>Ceremonious Rejection
New players can pretty easily understand what it means to counter an instant

There was a standing invitation to post a correct translation if you were aware of one.

>Confirm Suspicions
Investigate is a key mechanic of the set. Investigating three times isn't particularly complicated, nor is the most basic form of counterspell.
>Overwhelming Denial
A core mechanic of the set, plus "can't be countered" on top of the most basic form of counterspell. Maybe this deserves to be uncommon, but certainly not rare.
>Scatter to the Winds
A core mechanic of the set, plus the most basic form of counterspell.

That's the first thing I thought about honestly.

I remember when it was that way.
When green was the Loser Color, solely there for new players and their wurms while everyone else played Real Magic.
When one of the top decks of the format was always some form of blue-based deck.
Yes, it's gone too far the other way now.
Doesn't mean it needs to go straight back.
There needs to be a fucking midpoint.

The dumbest part of this is that it will make things HARDER to understand for new players, not easy. When something from a past set with a discard trigger is in play and someone cycles a card, a new player will be convinced that it doesn't count, after all, all of the other cards specifically say cycling is different from discard, right?

Whenever a player discards a card, do X. (Cycling is discarding)

Please apply to Wizards and write card descriptions. It's baffling when some schmuck on the internet makes things more clear than they can.

Honestly, what I'm guessing happened is that they all started as just being 'Whenever you cycle a card' and at some point they decided to add regular discards as well. And the person who did it just went through the database, searched for that line of text, and added 'or discards' and then they just shrugged because it worked.
Because they've used the other style wording before on cards.

>seven or more cards

Fuck, do you think that's restrictive enough? How about you have to be at 20+ life too

If this translation is accurate I'm kinda upset because this guy sucks pretty hard. The gods feel super lacking in design which is disappointing.

>counter triggered and activated abilities

How many times do you think this is actually relevant in a limited environment? Because the answer is extremely extremely low.

Stop sucking NWO's cock

I feel like making this now

>How about you have to be at 20+ life too

That doesn't seem too hard.

>Standard legal
The gods so far are trash in Modern. They mostly read "Pay loads of mana, opponent discards PtE/Dismember"

At least the Theros gods had some passive effects in Enchantment-mode that common removal wouldn't hit.

Well if you're playing on Victory for turn 5, then turn 4 should be Onward.

This feels like a shitty version of Temur Battlerage.
Is there a single good Aftermath card they've spoiled yet? This is the third one.

No, that's the white god.

>Okerta, God of Solidarity 2W
>4/4
>Indestructible, First Strike
>Okerta, God of Solidarity can't attack or block unless you have 20 or more life.
>3W: Create a 1/1 white Zombie creature token with lifelink.

>first strike
Ha.
Wizards is just going to give it Vigilance.

Nah, it has a bow. First Strike's the only flavorful option for it.

But what use would an indestructible creature have for First Strike?

wither and infect.

...

>playing your wincon on curve as a control deck
Come on, son

>implying it won't be Reach

Considering that they decided against putting wither into this set, I'm inclined to say they have no reason for first strike.

magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/amonkhet-down-business-part-1-2017-04-03

>what if the gods were designed for modern?
>laughing_dismember.jpg

More proof that Wizards hates Blue.

More proof that Timmy cracks the most packs you mean.

Why stop at Blisterpod when we can go to Modern and use Young Wolf?

Yes I do, I want to rage at Blue decks so hard that I throw in the towel and play a Blue deck just to beat other Blue decks and then truly understand what a beautiful world the world of draw-go and Counterspell stack mountains culminating in who draws the first Thrun is.

You know, just like high school Magic.

Oh no he fell for the blue boogeyman meme.
Preorder your Serpopards today while it's only $9.00

The big problem with Blue is that it holds a near monopoly on stack interaction.

Which makes them unfun to play against, and get's you the occasional cards which specifically disallow being targeted on the stack.

Which is why they had the split counters for the longest time.

No really, that was unironically the most fun I've ever had playing Magic, and I want to play it again.

My wife who I know for a fact would play UB viciously is playing RWx aggro because she never knew the joys of casting a good counterspell in her life. Our marriage is failing because she never learnt control magic and thinks my modern BGx deck is an oppressive control deck. Fuck you Wizards, I want to step into the reality where Blue continued to be a good colour till today.

Just get rid of the stack already.

I actually don't understand why people dislike blue decks. It forces interaction and thought. You literally have to interact with your opponent because half your cards are reactive whereas with green and white you just ignore your opponent entirely, play your fatties and hope you win before they do.
Kinda like RDW but with even less thought because with rdw at least there is some math to figure out what the most damage efficient play per turn is.
With green/white you just play the Hughes value card you can each turn and k is you will win eventually so there is no sense of urgency and you don't have to play smart

yeah, I'll be fine with blue when I can bolt their spells off the stack. Giving only one color control of the stack is total horseshit. And don't give me that "black has a counterspell too" line, because that I can at least pay life to get rid of.

Because, that interaction and thought is entirely on their side of the table.

Without blue at the table, your thoughts are "If I attack, do they have something that will foil my swing? Will I be open to their counter swing damage? Will the flash in a defender or do they have a trick that would let their current defense turn the tides, like a deathtouch combat trick?"

With Blue, it is "will they even let me have a thing to do?" that dominates that.

Now, quick fast decks generally are the counter to blue. A good Zoo can likely beat a control deck, just because their creatures are generally 2/3's for 1cmc.

But that's still the thing, Control is only fun for the controller, and the mirror matches end up being no fun to watch either.

Though, a good deal of it is just the flaws of MtG that have been there since day one... not to mention the power creep.

>Giving only one color control of the stack is total horseshit
Green has control of the board
White gets control of pretty much fucking everything
Black gets to look at your hand and pick and choose what you throw away, and murder every creature you play before you get to tap it
Red is complete garbage right now, other than pump spells

No?
Your bolt is multi purpose
My coubterspells only counters

If people are salty because their on curve undeecosted battlecruiser card got countered by a dinky little 2 drop spell they should stop sucking ass at the game and learn to play matchups properly, but coubterspells, and punish.

This whole
You should have only specific coubterspells for very specific sumituations bullshit needs to stop. It shouldn't be on the blue player to pick out a draw the answers they need at the perfect time, it should be on the opponent to play smart and make the blue player waste resources to open up avenues of attack

>the power creep.
Love this meme.
The only thing that's been improving in power over time is the creatures. And even then, all that's been happening is creatures getting pushed up to the power level of noncreature spells.

I don't know what the complaint is. I know a guy who played back in Odyssey and all he does it complain about "power creep"
He threw a fit over pic because he thought it was going to be another Disciple of the Vault.

Green also has Collected Company, Ancient Stirrings, and Traverse. Blue is typically the card advantage/manipulation color but Green has basically taken Blue out of the game on that front

>your thoughts while playing are simple damage calculations

Yeah probably not even thinking that far as a white player honestly. If I resolved a Gideon ally of zendikar I'm actually just fucking attacking no matter what because combat math and thinking doesn't matter. I played my undercosted, overpowered card on curve and now I mindlessly swing every turn until I win.

That is how white and green currently play in standard and that needs to change
Making blue overpowered again to shut that shit down is the best way to do it

What are you talking about? Burn vs Control is some of the most interesting magic to watch and play. Burn players playing around counterspells, having to think about what to pitch to a counter and what to keep, throwing out fodder to keep blue from holding mana to draw. Meanwhile blue is in a desperate survival mode where every card counts. If I play a counter on their creature now, do I just lose to bolt later? A lot more interesting than: I disintergrate your guy then swing with heart of kiran.

>Making blue overpowered again to shut that shit down is the best way to do it
FUCKING PENDULUM IDEOLOGY

I'd rather the damn thing hang in the center instead of swinging back and forth. Too bad that in this metaphor, not having a shifting color balance apparently means the clock is broken, i.e. that Magic is dead.

I would rather it lean on the side of control, even if it isn't blue. Timmy strats and agro strats should be the mediocre to bad way to play the game for new players while forced interaction and complex thought processes taking into account 3-7 turns in advance should be the highest level and most successful way to play.

Things like. T1 toolcraft, t2 HoK, you scoop? :^)
Shouldn't be in the game

green holds the monopoly on no-interaction, whats your point?

I've admittedly only been playing since Khans and keeping up with spoiler season since Fate, but I can't remember a more boring first two days of spoiler season

I have to agree actually. I went ahead and got some red expertises and wrangles (trash cards really) because I was hopeful for Exert cards I could steal and smash with for maximum gain.

But they're just spoiling garbage so far. Usually they've dropped more than one tasty card by now, but even the Gods are disappointing. All we've got is the scarab spawner, which will never be anything more than a janky brewing tool.

If you're going to make that a thing you need to stop making the stack blue's secret clubhouse nobody else is allowed inside.

All five colors can interact with permanents.

Blue can interact with spells, and Red can kind of sort of in a shitty way if Wizards is feeling generous.

Expand it so other colors have ways of interacting with spells or get fucked and learn to play with permanents like everyone else.

>Blue can interact with permanents
You're really reaching now.

White also has some ways of messing with the certain spells/abilities. Aven Mindcensor is even getting a reprint, so I feel obligated to reprimand you.

>I'm going to pretend bounce isn't a thing because it strengthens my argument

OK, buddy, when you want to argue honestly about this let me fucking know.

literally
Take into Custody
was just printed

it's an actually pretty good card
it's not bolt
but it's not bad

try to stay up to day

Please tell me what bounce spells are being run in competitive matches right now. Because the large majority of creatures played in metagame are either so cheap that you don't care if they get bounced, or they have amazing ETB effects and getting bounced is just a bonus. Bounce almost never even breaks even in card advantage. Get the fuck outta here.

I wouldn't mind seeing some new counterspells in different colors with the right themes

Red has conditions and deals damage, breaking concentration.
White exiles temporarily with conditions
Black could have some conditional interaction as well

But like others above have said these colors do get stack interaction (with the exception of red because lmao red sucks as much as blue thanks maro) with creatures especially which are just better forms of counterspells

Reprint mana leak in standard and see what happens

Hold up.
You stated Blue could not interact with permanents. A staple Blue effect that interacts with permanents was posted.
Now you demand that the spells be run in competitive matches.

Calling out bad argument techniques is a shitty technique itself, but what are you doing user?

There are two definitions of NWO:

The stated definition, by WotC, which refers to what you stated.

And the actual definition, which is the shifting of the color pie and game focus to accommodate the whims of the marketing department. The power shift from instances and sorceries to Creatures is the main example of this.

...

You can't seriously be arguing that bouncing is on the same level as other permanent interaction. I mean, green gets can't be countered, which is basically protection from the stack. Does that count as green having "stack interaction"

This is pretty desperate, user.

>I agree but I would rather the pendulum be permanently on the blue side and have green and white go fuck themselves

It's funny that the the one blue-centric format is is also the most balanced and challenging format. It's hard to encourage skillful gameplay when green, as the designated "windmill slam creatures until someone loses" is top dog. Green should've been the graveyard recursion/sacrifice color desu.

Echoing Truth sees some competitive play in modern. Paradoxical Outcome sees some competitive play in legacy/vintage, and standard too IIRC.

I would also love to see blue bee updated for the current design philosophy but they refuse for some reason

Like imagine a small blue dork that had
>tap 2B counter target noncreature spell

That would be cool and powerful but it will never ever happen because blue and red design is stuck in the 1990s where they should play with only instant and sorceries but is is meshed with new design that says instant and sorceries have to suck

So those two colors suck and are reduced to shitty splash colors at best and completely unplayed at worst

Give me grewn elendra give me deciphle of the ring(but cheaper)

Give red real creature with haste and decent effects

And stop giving undercosted Timmy wet dreams to green and insane value engines to white

The level of permanent interaction was never in question. Only that such an interaction existed. That condition has been met.

If you would like to state new conditions, very well. But acknowledge when the old conditions have been fulfilled so we can avoid any confusion in our topics.

Oh, and cyclonic rift is an EDH allstar, and sees a very small amount of play in Turns and UTron, in modern.

I'm sure boomerang sees play in pauper.

All I'm saying is bring it more into line so the colors stack up better on both fronts.

>Green focuses mostly on the battlefield and has weak stack control
>Red has a battlefield focus and burn but interacts with the stack a bit more with things like redirects and copying spells
>Black remains the best at killing creatures and planeswalkers but gets some options that let you interact with things on the stack to turn them to your advantage at a cost to yourself in the vein of Imp's Mischief
>White gets answers that have answers on both fronts, having conditional or temporary creature removal and either soft-counters or delaying of spells on the stack
>Blue can have more hard-counters and effect changers now that more things that interact with cards on the stack exist but has weak battlefield interaction outside of its bounce and tap-down

I just don't appreciate the "you must be at least this blue to have what is considered a skillful deck or participate in this playstyle at all" mindset.

Did you really think I meant that blue had zero interactions with permanents?
Is this what autism is like?

They tried with Reflector Mage, but it was too strong for Standard and got banned.
RIP.
Now they won't risk it again and we have to wait four years.

Where do you think you are?

I would be happy to see this but I am being realistic

Wotc aren't smart enough to do something like you suggested so the alternative is
>you just be this blue.
And I would rather have that than our current absolute shitfest