/hhg/ aka Horus Heresy General

I'd play them but I'm too loyal for that shit.
Why do you ask?

The false emperor tricked you loyalist scum

Luna Wolves here, not Sons of Horus.

We have Iron Warriors, Death Guard, Ultras, Word Bearers, Imperial Fists, Thousand Sons and some awooos but the Warmaster's legion never appears in the threads. Kinda sad

>oh gee this one guy stole some warp power to give humanity a chance at ruling the galaxy unopposed
>better bring on 10 millennia of suffering galaxy wide

Isstvan 3 survivors is a bit of a stretch for me so I chose to stick with DA.

Tricky paint scheme, boring characters, bland (if good) rules. Not much makes them really worth playing.

Give some phosphex to this guy

>stole some warp power

If only Abaddon had EW and/or unique weapon...

Same. Luna wolves. Their iconography, color scheme, and legion culture before becoming the sons of Horus is way more appealing and aesthetic.

Their legion rules are good too even though they're basically the sam as SoH

>stole some warp power

Yeah, EW and a paragon blade instead of his sword/gun would be good. Makes him combat survivable and also is a nice reference to his current sword/fist combination in 40k.

I don't play it, I have only read Galaxy in Flames (back in 2007 I wanna say, whenever it came out), but man. HH is so interesting.

What is it about it that I like so much?

Is it because legions of space marines are fighting each other? And like, the marines of the HH are more human than their 40k descendants?

Is it because a lot of the equipment looks like it's out of the 1e era?

I dunno. I just really like HH. Should I go back and snag the first two books?

Also what books would hhg rec?

HH is way more accesible now, if you like it you should give it a try

So this is what I made out of a crappy phone and way too many hours on a bus

HQ
Valdor
275 pts

Elite
Hetaeron Guard Squad
Arae-shrikes, Melta Bombs
217 pts

Achillus Dreadnought
Dreadspear
240 pts

Achillus Dreadnought
Dreadspear
240 pts

Troops
Sentinal Guard Squad
Vexilla, Arae-shrikes, Melta Bombs
182 pts

Sentinal Guard Squad
Vexilla, Arae-shrikes, Melta Bombs
182 pts

Sentinal Guard Squad
Vexilla, Arae-shrikes, Melta Bombs
182 pts

Custodian Guard Squad
Arae-shrikes, Melta Bombs
172 pts

Custodian Guard Squad
Arae-shrikes, Melta Bombs
172 pts

Heavy Support
Galatus Dreadnought
250 pts

Sagittatum Squad
Arae-shrikes
187 pts

Sagittatum Squad
Arae-shrikes
187 pts

Total: 2,501 pts (sue me)

Sentinals deep strike onto objectives with Sagittarum for fire support, custard creams deep strike when needed for a counter charge, the dreads smash into the tough shit and the companions escort valdor into challenges, plus they always a marmalade melta bomb in their helmets in case of an emergency

Im actually really happy with the aesthetic of this list, nice and symmetrical with all the models I like. I know it isn't optimal, but the vehicles are fucking ugly, expensive and pure cheese from what I've read, so their absence is fine by me

Is there any other reference about LW culture beside Black Book 1? Book 1 was too brief.

I think the game is more enjoyable than 30k by quite some margin. It's just more expensive to get into because often times you need to buy a GW kit plus a FW upgrade kit for your models.

How do you fluff your forces, if you do?

Just this page from book VII.

I like Saggitarum even though most think they're over costed because it's hard for them "to earn their points back".

After trying them over and over I think I've got them figured out. They have to be used in conjunction with your other dudes. I found they're great for allowing my other units to charge multiple times a game by preventing them from getting bogged down against large squads or against things like dreadnoughts. They're brilliant at keeping blobs and tough units to the right size to allow your melee units to then cut through them in 2 assault phases so you can move on and charge again with little recourse.

They're also great at popping vehicles when up close.

They really are support. I just wish they had relentless so they could fire on the move and their bolt weapons had heliothermic detonation. It would make them nasty against mechanicum thallax, scyllax, ursarax, and vorax.

Haven't decided if I should go with dead Orks base or dead Marines base.

A lot of it is indirect. So for instance you'll see a description of another legion say, "in contrast to the Luna Wolves _____ was done this way". The rest is in the novels.

Basically you get the feeling that they behave like wolves but not in a space wolf "I'm literally a wolf" kind of way. They behave like wolves in the way modern day elite soldiers behave like wolves. Where rank and ritual mean less than reputation, competence, and action. A hyper aggressive hyper competitive world that's not necessarily adversarial with itself. Where those who can't carry the weight are relegated because there's always someone willing to step up, but not in an egotistical way like the emperors children.

Magnus implies Jaghatai has a Psyker gift... is he referring to Jaghatai's swordsmanship? Speed?

PWEAS GIVE FEEDBACK FOR MWY INCOMPETE WITEFAGGOTRY WEEEEEEE

I think it is implied that many of the Primarchs have at least some latent psychic potential. Lorgar, Curze, Sanguinius and Mortarion certainly do.

pastebin.com/mA7g2mKa

All primarch making all humans kneel automatically out of pure awe is a psychic ability.

I like portraying them as a Terran Luna Wolves remnant that was sent away before even the events of istvaan iii were planned.

To add a little more, I fluff them as having been very resistant to the warrior lodges and were therefore relegated to long range patrol in quiet sectors. As Terrans they're loyal to the emperor first and some even remember conquering the sol system. Even though accepted and well integrated with their Cythonian brothers, they didn't see eye to eye on everything and saw the warrior lodges as an attempt to secretly stratify a legion outside of outright merit and competence.

Mortarion? He's just a sneaky git, unlike Corax who literally is casting invisibility all day long. Regarding the sorcery, anyone can use sorcery as long as you use the correct motions and remember it's "leviosa", not "leviossaaa".

Hey, it's nice.

Oh man I forgot to tell you.
I read it yesterday and looks pretty cool to me. I see word bearers more like Babylonians but nomadic tribes where the other side of the coin in ancient Mesopotamia so it makes sense that Colchis had lots of them. I really like how you write but I am not english so my knowledge of the language is questionable

no, it's not, it's psychological issue relating to humans being unable to comprehend and also fearing the superhuman traits and physiology of the space marines/primarchs embodied in an otherwise human form

Thwank you

I'm still working on my forces fluff, which I'll run by you soon with questions, but mine personally is gonna use the ending of "A Wolf of Ash and Fire" as the starting point

This
They have a lot of indirect references to where they stood in capabilities, but the other thing though is that they have a really loose command structure in that the person in charge tends to be the best suited for the job and not the highest ranking officer

What's a better choice on heavy Support squads; autocannons or missile launchers?

Statistically, Autocannons are the superior choice on both weaker targets and weaker vehicles- anything short of MEQ and AV12 is taking more damage from autos, however Marines and AV13+ will require missile to do good damage.

I really wanna buy some but not too sure of which, anyone have experience?

Well since you have said yourself that missile launchers are better against marines and heavy armour you should probably take them in AV13 Wargame: The MEQ-ening

Depends on your meta. If you need to kill lots of Rhinos? AC. 3+ MCs? ML.

Note that there are better marine woodchippers out there than missile launchers.

I kek'd.

>play Reaping DG
>have both

have 2 of both or hell have 4 of both and swap them out as needs be

Fair points. What's fun and tough though is my meta features a pretty big variety of armies and playstyles, so tailoring is pretty ineffective- in campaigns, though, I suppose I can build as I need.

>implying that's not what I'm already doing

I'm taking two seven-man squads in Rhinos to hold backfield objectives and lay down fire. Do you play DG? Is four HS squads actually viable?

>stole some warp power
The inquisition would like a word with you

My mom's dick would like a word with you.

What does the current lore say then?

Read through black book V, pretty ticked. Ultras get like 5 pages of history and the Word Bearers get pretty much 1...just about Calth. Where did it all go? Is there another book??

Oh, that is the current lore. It's just that since the 3rd edition seriousening of the lore and subsequent decades of constant clusterfuck retcons, everyone has to basically live on their own little headcanon island to make any sense of the ungodly mess that is the setting.

>Do you play DG?

Yes. 2 tactical blobs, 2 heavy support with missiles and autocannons, and 2 support squads with chemical flamers and plasma guns.

My personal headcanon is that the giant portal on Molech is actually one of the paintings from Super Mario 64 and the Emperor had to go hoofing through the place collecting the stars. He then used a bunch to power himself up and used the rest to make his sons.

Book 2, starting at page 136.
It ends on page 155.
It's all Word Bearers.

Book 5 is just the stuff on Calth as you said.

>two seven-man squads

I don't talk to dicks that talk back. Less so if they're S10 AP1

>implying She Who Thirsts doesn't have the D

>2 Support squads
Not worth it imo, but that's probably because every time I take flamers or plasma my guys just kill themselves.

I'm building a list for 2500-3k, might I ask if you have a 'standard' list for that size?

I was going to add Armourbane, Fleshbane, Soulblaze and a chance of D, but those are the Emperor's Blade stats.
Turns out Guilliman works the Emperor's Dick in battle.
Well done, user. Now the secret is out.

>Guilliman works the Emperor's Dick
I swear I wrote "wields", kek

>kill themselves

Flamer squad suffers 0.5 unsaved wounds per turn. Plasma squad with a combi-plasma apothecary suffers 0.74 unsaved wounds. You must have been rolling badly.

Flamer squad with rad grenades and CCWs can also charge in and finish the job after blasting something with their flamers. They might not be the best against marines, but any levy squad should be hurting from some S4 Shred templates followed by 20+ S4 attacks vs. their T2 (so no FNP for them due to ID).

Why is there a vocal minority that seem to rally against the Psychic phase in 40k/30k, when it is such a fundamental and integral part of the lore, and therefore should be represented on the tabletop as such.

Oooooh, I hadn't thought of that. Sounds like really good fun.

By the way, what's the deal with Daemon Allies? Can only WB take them or can I grab some Plaguebearers as friendos?

So Jaghatai already knew about the warp before/during the crusade, and he argued with the emperor about keeping the imperium in the dark.
Did all Primarchs know the 'truth' ?

Because people remember when psychic powers didn't help push the game toward being a card game-style combo fest, where victory is mainly achieved by your ability to think about the game harder than the developers did.

In fairness though, the problem is less the psychic phase and far more the bullshit that is contained in the rulebook lores.

Hey there, it's Auxilia user again.

What do you think of my mechanized assault list ?(I'm currently hesitating between this and a siege oriented force)

Is there something to improve ? (I'm sure there is)

WB only for now (and traitor Militia with the right HQ).

Angelus promises daemons and diabolism, so it's possible non-WB will get daemons in some fashion. I got a DP and a unit of plaguebearers waiting, and planning on getting some nurglings as well.

>"So long gay Chaos!"

I think most of them knew of the warp, but I don't think most understood that there were malevolent intelligences akin to deities that were made up of and had control over the warp.

Lorgar made his pilgrimage to the eye of terror to confirm this.

I think the Khan had the most rational and mature perspective on the matter.

Yeah, I've been chillin with my 40k GUO and some plague drones, I can't tell for certain but beasts of Nurgle also seem like fun.

Oh well, Angelus save us and all that

For now, there's always the option to ally with WB, get Layak as their HQ and make a small Troop unit with Dark Brethren as plague marines. Then use Layak to summon daemons.

Out of curiosity, what would be good "standard" anti-vehicle work?

I'm the DGanon asking about various gear, as of right now my main heavy Support come from 3 Quad Launchers w/ shatter shells, a kheres-mortis, some Land Raiders packing at least 1 chainfist, and the aforementioned HS squads.

It feels pretty solid to me, and short of a flare-shielded Spartan/Typhon I think I'm a-okay. What flaws could I run into?

Nah, thanks for the idea but I don't like summoning, it always feels douchey. And personally I don't like the current plague marine models, though with the new release things may change

Some because it is part of the reason the current psychic system sucks dick. And then you have Taufags who can't stand the fact that some armies have something they'll never get, and therefor are even willing to try and get everything psyker related banned as a houserule (I've seen this happen)

My main 40k army is GK (endless suffering) but I'll admit the psychic phase feels like bloat.

I'd not mind if more armies had pre-given powers (helluvalot quicker) and/or they balanced out powers so there's not blatantly usless and OP ones.

Plus killing the psychic phase (or at least it's style) would be nice, something akin to cyberthurgy would speed things up quite a bit.

Honestly the biggest current problem with it is time, so much bloat in the process it just gets tedious. Armageddon looks promising, though

How is the psychic phase part of the lore? We've been perfectly capable of doing psychic powers before it.

>Hetaerons
>no paragon blades
For what purpose?

The issue with the psychic phase, and psykers in general currenly, is that unless both players have a decent amount of psykers one player can only just sit back and twiddle his thumbs whilst his opponent is rolling for generating psychic powers for psyker number 7 or calculating how many warpdice he should use for each power to guarantee getting the most important powers off and maybe have some extra dice left.
And don't get me started on random psychic powers ... good luck keeping track of who has which psychic power each game. I've played 40k Thousand Sons for the better part of 6th edition and once in a while in 7th, and neither me or any opponent ever didn't need the piece of reference paper I wrote for every single game.

Read the first two
Fulgrim
Legion/Praetorian o Dorn
A Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns
The First Heretic/Betrayer/Know no Fear
Scars/The Path of Heaven
Vengeful Spirit
Master of Mankind

This is true of your opponent's entire turn, though. Even without a dedicated phase, all those powers are still going to be happening, except minus the figuring out how many dice to use for each. And without that, there'll probably be more powers cast since there's no reason for each psyker not to cast every single power he has rather than using all your dice on only 2 or 3 powers.

It's subtle... Jaghatai could sort of sense that the Warp was there, and had daemons in it. Not much more than that. Kind of like Sanguinius, who had dreams affected by the Warp.

Well I wouldn't mind buff and debuff powers to be consiledated alongside reserves and all 'start of movementphase' actions into some sort of command phase, and witchfires to become part of the shooting phase again.

I played in 2nd ed., when the psychic phase was even more of a card game-style combo fest than it is now. Some of those were crazy. In 3rd ed. it was toned down heavily and I kind of liked it that way.

An entire phase of the game that one player doesn't really participate in is dull. More importantly, there's too much randomness right now - some powers do too much, others are fine. It would be totally tolerable with some tweaks.

Most did not know or believe that the Warp was full of daemons. The Khan did, and likely Mortarion. Magnus did too, but thought he could control them. It sounds like Sanguinius didn't, surprisingly enough - if he didn't, few others would have.

It's a lot less douchy than taking Vulturax! Daemons are not currently on anyone's list of cheese complaints.

couldnt afford it without dumping stuff I need

I've got a Daemons Battleforce, a trio of Flamers and a Bloodthirster just waiting to become a part of my backlog.

Sure, but I'm not taking a Vulturax either.

Plus all the summoning is psyker shit, which last time I checked mort wouldn't like

So Blood Angels will have Lamentii and Sanguinary Guard.

That's a lot of guarding for being the Shock and Awe legion.

Guard troops got their name because, as the elite fighting units, they were used to guard the headquarters or most important locations and people when not on combat duty.
This only increased the prestige of already superior units, and thus competition to get into them, ensuring Guards units always had a high caliber of recruits.

Nobody ?

>So Blood Angels will have Lamentii and Sanguinary Guard.
They will have Sanguinary Double Wounding guard. Fuck lamentii.
Sanguinius, stoy crying :'(

I'm more interested in that Siege list you hinted