Tfw avacyn died for a plot convenience

I thought Kaladesh was a pretty great plane... nice aesthetic, the Aetherborn are a cool B race, it's just that the story is shit as usual.

He was already a villain.

My problem with Kaladesh as a plane is that it's this retardedly optimistic place where no one seems to want for anything in spite of supposedly being under some iron-fisted government's bootheel. It's not even like it's some sort of North Korea-esque cover. The place is just that great, and that's why everyone wants to topple the government? Other issues I have are that there's this whole world but we only really get to see much of Ghirapur, making the place feel really small, and it doesn't really seem all that alive to me. Things just exist to relate to the plot, as far as I can tell, aside from maybe that Lord of Luxury guy and the other Consuls. Even in Ravnica there are these weird minor factions outside of the guilds, but it seems like all these little machine shops in Kaladesh are there just to be footnotes on the long list of "People that joined the rebellion." Aetherborn are pretty cool, though.

Kaladesh was THE SHIT. The story was just shit, though.

Not this shit again

But we literally saw only one city
Thats it
Literally one part of the plane
Its not even a fucking city plane

I would guess the artificers are at the top of the food chain while the poor workers/plebs are treated like shit.

Phyrexia will fix everything, take over everything, make everything one and compleat then Jace will abandon reality, fleeing to a fresh realm and collapsing the tunnel behind him.

They aren't going to win you mong.

Jesus this is hack story telling 101, they lose and retreat from Amonkhet so they can have a training and teambuilding arc. Then we get return to Amonkhet: Rebellion Boogaloo where they inspire the populace to turn against Bolas and his evil ways, THEN they beat him with friendship.

Might be giving them too much credit. I fully expect these morons to beat Bolas in one block, no buildup and an awful climax.

I'm sick of seeing these the same characters invade every new plane. There is no tension because they will never kill off a Gatewatch unless they absolutely have to and it will just be some kind of pseudo death and they'll come back in a year or two.

Just pretend that Sorin went to the butterfly farm to play with Garruk. At this point, I don't even want them to come back so they can keep playing forever.

They've had pretty generally good stories over the years. Theros was fantastic story wise. It got dragged down in a disappointing block, but that's besides the point. Khans was good for the first half, like SOI. Zendikar, Scars, and Innistrad were all good.

The storytelling has been hack for the last three and a half blocks. How will this be different?

I want Garruk to hunt them all down.
Go full slasher movie with it.

>>when he comes back he'll probably be a villain and nahiri will join the gatewatch to kill him
Now you're just pushing your view of Wizards onto them. Nahiri vs Sorin was always meant to be two ancient powers who think themselves beyond good and evil duking it out, with both doing some pretty shitty things. Say what you want about the storytelling quality, they're not going to let someone who attempted genocide onto the Good Guy team.

I don't see that happening.

The demographic the Gatewatch is aimed at thinks of Bolas as the main bad guy of the series.

And given that the Gatewatch just got their shit pushed in by Amonkhet's sand wurms, I really don't see them beating the guy constantly hyped up as the reigning king asshole of all planeswalkers power-wise.

Given Nahiri is the reason emrakul went to innistrad, I sincerely doubt the gatewatch would accept her

This is probably the reason that so many of the native characters of Innistrad died, they can't kill the Gatewatch so the only way to raise the stakes and create tension is to murder swathes of the planes actually interesting characters without regard for how it will affect the plane moving forward.

I feel like innistrad is still going to be interesting.

We still have large swathes of humans, werewolves, and vampires. Sigarad's flock of angels are still alive, Olivia is alive an given how little angels are looks like she can indulge a bit more freely.

I'd have hope except the guidebook went out of its way to mention ONLY Sigarda survived Emrakul's manifestation.

Realistically, with only one angel and no afterlife anymore, humans on Innistrad are fucked nine ways from sunday, but they're not going to let one of the most popular planes descend into monsters killing each other because there's no humans left.

Guidebook?

The only thing i remember reading was from the dnd innistrad stuff that says the host was okay

>maybe with ugins help
Ugin getting involved would do the opposite of that. Probably the only thing which could get Nahiri and Sorin "on speaking terms again would be learning that Ugin knew the Eldrazi could be killed and deliberately chose not to, thus putting Zedikar and (indirectly) Innistrad at risk.

I enjoyed Khans a lot. Maybe it's some rosy goggles, being that I got back into the game since Invasion, but it was fun. Time travel is always a crapshoot, but I liked the characters mostly. Then we've had this gatewatch bullshit, which is heroic and great and all, but I miss Planes being Planes, and that's that.

The Artbook, I mean. From what I recall, their "expanding" on what the fuck happened in EM went on to say the Host of Herons is dead but STILL didn't say a goddamn word about what happened after Emrakul was sealed.

That storyline annoyed me so much, and the worst part was that it didn't end, it just...stopped. What the fuck happened after the big fight?

To be fair, Ugin's exact words were "I don't know if it's possible, and it certainly isn't WISE." But yeah, he probably did have his own agenda regarding them, one Bolas was very keen to disrupt.

There's another thing; the wards didn't fail despite the centuries Nahiri was AWOL and Sorin just peeked in occasionally. They were deliberately broken by Nicol Bolas, and it's dollars to donuts if Nahiri HAD been there all that would have happened was Bolas slaughtered her centuries ago so she wouldn't interfere.

LATE NINETEENTH, EARLY TWENTIETH CENTURY THEMED PLANE WHEN

I 'member, user. Ravnica/Mirrodin/Kamigawa books weren't perfect but they kept you engaged for longer than five minutes at a time. Interesting characters and genres mixed in at every turn. The planeswalker novels were even decent, and I definitely wanted more after the weirdness of Test of Metal.
It's a shame. Wizards' target demographics and focus groups care more about lesbians, chad and deus ex machina than storytelling

At this point I'm optimistic enough that it just can't happen. We've had the Eldrazi being (mostly) molested by friendship and Ajani beating Bolas initially with his stupid ult.
The Jactice League have to lose, and badly. I can't get anymore apathetic with this fucking story after the last few blocks, I'm a sure a lot of people agree

Eh, BFZ was pretty good apart from the ending, but with antagonists like the Eldrazi you can't really write anything amazing as a climax without either stabbing it with plot hooks or just blowing everything up.

The real problem is that we have EVERY one of them every time, instead of 2-3, which is where a lot of the writers are most comfortable.

Nahiri in "Campaign of Vengeance" : "I'm done being a warden, and Zendikar will never again be a prison. Emrakul had to go somewhere. You just made the decision a simple one."

The attempt to hurt Sorin was of course the point, but she knew that people were going to die in troves nevertheless. And it's not like she knew anything about the post-mending world, so she's probably more stuck up in her views than most. She had quite the hard landing.

Would be interested in seeing what she's up to, honestly. She would make for an interesting villain, being a god dethroned who took a pretty hard fall.

Certainly something more interesting going on in there rather than the regular manateers stuff.

I feel like a lot of the animosity people have about post-Origins storytelling is misdirected at the concept of the Gatewatch, rather than implementation. Every time we now see some super-doomsday scenario that they just HAVE to become completely immersed in rather than simply being supporting cast to an independent story, a way to keep consistency and pacing in the overall story while still experimenting. I think this is mostly because they've pushed the idea that the Gatewatch has to have all of its members at any one place, instead of splitting up the crew so the writers have design space to flesh out the planes while 2-3 of the Gatewatch play observer and occasionally make a wave.

What era was that again?

Kaladesh was generic but it wasn't BAD.

BFZ block was comically bad.

Origins was bad mostly because of all of the retcons, BFZ was just comical because of Nissa's autism, KOZILEK FROM SIX POINTS OF view, and the entire ending

SOI block was actually pretty decent, and had great ending stories

Kaladesh was again, generic, but much better than BFZ, plus Gatsby was an ok character

Amonkhet seems not total garbage so far

There's hope that they'll finally kill off members of the Gatewatch when Nicol Bolas slaps their shit in Hours of Devastation.

The consulate is not meant to be antagonistic. There are bad people as in any form of gubmint, but Wizards went out of their way to make it clear that the aether revolt only went down because of Tezzeret's infiltration and manipulation, and that otherwise the Consuls are mostly genuinely well meaning and benevolent. There've always been renegades who disagree that aether should be government regulated but its just differing political views and isnt to my knowledge intended to be interpreted as hard right or wrong.

Im sure a lot of the world is well expounded upon in the artbook. It just so happened the story this time was a rebellion in Ghirapur so thats what showed up on cards.

I actually kind of want "Gatewatch" planeswalkers to appear, I just want them to not be the origins 5 all the fucking time.

Have Narset and Ral be the ones trudging along a plane trying to fix shit instead of Jace and Gideon for the 12th time.

Kaladesh is the max limit of technology we are going to see.

Some people have already said it, but Gideon is probably the one getting the axe (because Bolas doesn't give a shit about immortality), or at least be mortally wounded.

Bolas has no sympathy for furries

psst no one who complains about that aspect of the kaladesh story actually read any of it, because if they did you wouldn't have to explain that to them

I don't mind recurring characters, but the Gatewatch fuckers have overstayed their welcome, not to mention the endless rehashes of the same shit.

How many more iterations of Gideon "turn into indestructible man with damage prevention" do we really need?

IIRC, Ajani slapped Bolas shit.

The story and gameplay of mtg has been slightly off since the original innistrad block. The return to ravnica and theros blocks were decent and everything after imo was a huge step back for the game as a whole.

>How many more iterations of Gideon "turn into indestructible man with damage prevention" do we really need?
I was browsing a spoiler thread yesterday during a lecture and had to stifle myself from laughing after seeing someone bring up "Gideon tribal"

I imagine they'll kill Gideon
>The DM of the Gatewatch has told Gideon that Okhetra is infallably Lawful Good.
>There will inevitably be betrayal and they'll kill off Gideon.
>Everyone calls the Paladin (Gideon) lawful stupid for believing the DM even though detection of allignment is not a roll but just a factual check.
>Gatewatch tips their collextive Fedora's at the concept of religeon.
>Move on to next plane.

There are 6 variants of Gideon now. You could run up to 24 Gideons in a single deck, even if it doesn't make much sense due to the Planeswalker rule.

I think one of would be good enough, mono white super gideon friends.

Put Trials down and then just put another down whenever he dies.

>because Bolas doesn't give a shit about immortality
This. His touch alone destroys any mind. Don't even care if you can't die if your brain empty.

T H I S
H
I
S

As someone who got back into Magic around Origins, I was excited by the concept of being able to consistently have recurring characters I can relate to or am at least familiar with, but having to shove 5 foreign characters into each setting leaves no good room for the plane itself! Why do we need 5 bloody Gatewatch reps at once when at least 2 of them do jack shit each block (Gideon and Chandra in SOI, Nissa and Jace in KAL)? Making a rotating cast and cutting it down to 3-2 people lets the story breathe instead of cramming in crap like Jace's stupid one-off in AER or Liliana just chasing off Tezzeret by herself.

So far it looks like Gideon (and Jace?) are going to be carrying the story this time around.

Gideon's got his god waifu and at least in the stories so far Jace has done the most stuff.

>mfw they will make Ravnica the new center of the multiverse amd shit on dominaria.

I doubt Jace is going to die.

I mean it would be great but I don't think it's gonna happen.

You don't know how much I was rooting for Nixilis during that BFZ story.

Can you imagine the amount of paperwork he has waiting for him back in his office?

I wonder how poor Lavinia must feel.

Mono-W tokens feat. Oath of Gideon and Trials for shutting down blockers?

This is the closest thing to MTG lore thread, I just want to know why someone would write stuff like this.

magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/impact-2017-03-29

>HOLY FIERY RIVERS OF REGATHA WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THAT THING AND DID IT JUST EAT LILIANA NO WAY WHAT THE HELL DIE IN A PILLAR OF FLAME YOU BIG FAT STUPID WAIT DID NISSA JUST SAY THERE WERE MORE COMING OH GEEZ YUP THERE THEY ARE GET OUT OF THE WAY I'LL ROAST YOU ALL GIVE BACK LILIANA YOU STUPID SONS OF INBRED BANDARS—

The writer for Dragon Age joined creative and since no one there cares about Chandra at all they're just following his lead.

Dunno man

I kind of want to see Sorin escalate.

I liked the Sorin vs Nahiri plotline. It paints both characters as being essentially sanctimonious pricks with varying levels of fucking lunacy and a near complete disconnect or seeming lack of awareness, or perhaps a lack of care, regarding the long-term consequences of their actions.

>fucking lunacy

Carlos I'm going to banish your beaner ass to the Shadow Realm for that

The Gatewatch is so overcrowded that they have to remind the readers that certain characters are there

I would love to see multiple blocks, probably spaced out, about those two trying to fuck over each other and causing planar catastrophes in the process.

You can try

>Two petty and angry planeswalkers shitting up multiple universes over their grudges
just like the good old days

That would be a fucking riot.

Talking about that, what's your speculations on how Nahiri will probably try to attain a longer lifespan?

Stone-cyborg Nahiri would probably be a personal favorite. Think about it, she could use her own body as a weapon and a source of magic.

>Talking about that, what's your speculations on how Nahiri will probably try to attain a longer lifespan?
I dunno if she's into the "continue to be immortal" thing. We already have Lili and Bolas for that.

I dunno, fucking up the life of an immortal vampire would probably be easier if one was immortal themselves, no?

And she is probably still quite adamant in her ideas of being an oldwalker, she has been a newwalker for what, a year? That's not a long time to erase ideas woven in 6000 years.

I actually think that even in theory a Planeswalker team is a really bad idea.

Up till now, the story of Magic has been about the struggles of Planeswalkers against each other. The fact that they're all different colors is what makes this interesting. The last time we had a Planeswalker superteam was Scars, and that was only because Venser and Elspeth was forced into it. Turns out that when you get people who have completely different philosophies into one team, it doesn't turn out well. Who would have guessed?

Outside of her getting FUCKING PISSED at Sorin, she seemed rather level headed.

What if she discovers New Phyrexia? Think about the possibilities.

Gilded Age if you're a burger

Yeah, and it makes me sad :(
> everyone's favorite historical period except for mine has been/will be represented

Industrial age?

>Getting pissed enough to ruin a fucking plane just because you really dislike a dude who likes that plane
>Level headed

For an old walker.

Yeah, she is pretty level headed, and after she dealt with Sorin (or so she thinks at least), she's probably content until she sees his ugly mug again.

Again:
>"I'm done being a warden, and Zendikar will never again be a prison. Emrakul had to go somewhere. You just made the decision a simple one."

She knew that loads of people were going to die anyway, so why not guide that monstrosity to a place that would hurt this asshole. It's still bad, but it's not willing genocide -bad. It's redirecting a flood that would destroy a village to another village of your enemy's. The end result is still the same, a lot of people dying, but your enemy suffers from it.

What are the odds that Garruk exists again?

What are the odds that they don't write him shittily?

100%

0%

As long as they don't take a 180 on his character like they did with Nissa I think I could handle it.

This is why I don't really want to see the old favorites come back. I'm scared of what the writers are going to do to them.

I was never really into Katmandu, but he seems about what you'd expect out of a relatively chivalrous mono white walker.

Outside of dead people, who else would they bring back? Karn? Koth?

Yeah. You're pretty right though. They already fucked with all of the fan favorites.

If the gatewatch shits on Bolas I swear to you I will never read the plot again. They can't fucking do that.

I'm still pissed they had them "kill" ulamog and kozilek with normal fucking fire magic, no matter how much "special mana" is on zendikar.

Though at least they more or less said they weren't actually dead.

Let's be honest, the Eldrazi were terrible antagonists in the first place. It's never a good idea to write a villain that can't lose lest everything be destroyed that isn't the only villain in the series.

They will probably manifest again in some other form, to be honest. The versions on Zendikar were just basically fragments of the original titan. It's like trapping an octopus to glue versus chopping off a limb. That's why the original trio's plan worked for so long.

Eldrazi are weird.

I'm probably a bit biased because for a while my experience with magic was just playing commander and I usually got my friend's braids+eldrazi deck, but the titans were incredibly symbolic of magic to me, second to bolas, (my friend had an M13 box) and to see them treated like that really upset me. Even moreso after I had heard so much when I was starting to play about how Zendikar block was so amazing.

A lot of the original Eldrazi cards were amazing to me, a good example being It That Betrays. Meanwhile half the ones in BFZ were boring, though I suppose that's what happens when you need a set of them instead of 3-4 from each brood.

The only Walker option that could come back is probably Jaya Ballard, since we don't know if our universe's Jaya is dead or not.
Though, with how much they've been fucking up everything and everyone in the lore, I hope they don't remember she exists.

Like, the Eldrazi aesthetic is just so... Majestic.

They're powerful devourers with alien powers and aesthetics. Also they have some of the best names for cards. It That Betrays is a nice example, and one of the rare new examples is It That Rides As One.

Sad that they mostly filed off that naming convention in later sets, it really emphasized the alienness of them.

Their set-up was great, the execution however... What I mean is that they could write something far more interesting instead of what they did.

What if they lure one of the titans and seal it on a barren plane? what if you trap one in a infinite loop of magic bullshit? what if they try to kill one collapsing the plane with a very dramatic sacrifice of one of the protagonist? I don't know, do something crazy. Imagine having them all of them separated in different planes, wotc could release one in 20 years, in 30 years release another one, etc. NOT FUCKING KILLING THEM.

Fuck I was mad when I was reading that ending. fuck your jacetice league maro.

They are like that because they were oldwalkers. It's why Liliana is a bit more unhinged than the rest of the gatewatch. It's why Bolas works as a 1 dimensional keikaku weaving super villain. The neowalkers won't live long enough or see enough fucked up shit to reach that mental state.

I quit after the SIXTH story that had nothing happen except seeing Kozilek show up from ANOTHER perspective

>expecting an MTG story to be good

It's always been shit. Anyone who thinks it was never not shit is blinded by nostalgia.