Warmachine/Hordes General

>I own mk2 griffon spam which doesn't seem as good anymore
It's still good.

Another problem with net decking is that all the big cons etc are their own little meta. Sentry stones don't do shit in my meta because I have 3 players who run defender warded errants. 14/18 vs ranged fucks over stones hard.

Anyone knows where can i find mk2 rulebook?

This general is about as dead as the game
Glad I sold all my crap before mk3 came out

>wow this general is getting buried by the constant flood of 40K and Age of Shillmar threads, here's my chance to shitpost
I'm sorry that your playergroup doesn't extend beyond the boundaries of this shitty website, user.

Are Minions viable as a full army, especially from a newbie perspective?
I love the appearances, I think I understand the playstyles, and I like the idea of playing an uncommon army.
I'm well aware that they have a smaller roster to pick from, but it still seems to offer enough options for multiple list options.
Similarly I have heard that they are weaker on the power curve, but as far as I am concerned that just means I'll learn quicker.

Specifically, Rask & Arkadius. Both run in theme?

Any advice welcome, or potentially a decent Mk3 tactica.

Yeah, minions have plenty of good stuff these days. The new theme force for Gators is good and outside of themes you can mix and match Gators and pigs now which is pretty great.

Does legion have any attrition game or am I fucking retarded for every trying to play them that way? I always feel like I'm just pressing my face into a grinder until I see an opening in my opponents defenses to plunge a dagger/angelius. If the opening never comes I get steamrolled

They shouldn't be playing for attrition really. maybe thagrosh can but that's about it

Rolled 4 (1d6)

Making a tough check

Stay Death

It's overpowered

>tfw I lost a game because my opponent made 4 successful no-knockdown tough-rolls with his caster.

Could someone point me to that old forum thread that lists the contents of every NQ issue?

Minions are one of my main factions, specifically Pigs in theme. I started the game years ago with Cygnar, still love the faction, and am great with all my lists, but my Pigs have a special place in my heart. I tend to play my Pigs a lot more on point than my other lists, they just clicked with me. I can provide my list if wanted.

doesn't sound too awful, Makeda3 endures gunlines v. well and also plays a mean scenario game. If you have Chiron I'd slot him in her list - Counterblast OoA POW 15 3d6 from Makeda alongside a Counterblast boosted POW 15 3d6 spray from Chiron himself thanks to Vortex is solid deterrent tech against heavy assassination and he compounds the anti-ranged component of most builds you'll use.

Legion plays attrition awkwardly with Fyanna and certain Twins lists leveraging Star Crossed Guard Dog DEF 18 Rhyas for free value swings that recur since you just feat Rhyas back (also Thags as mentioned). I'm not sure how sufficient those are now into Khador tiers (particularly Strakhov2 Legion of Steel which seems insanely solid as an infantry block given the Feign Death and very high ARM coupled w/ select burst output via Last Stand CMAs and the boggling amount of board space it occupies top of 1) or Heavy Metal Cygnar which operate in different ways and I don't think they do so hot versus Amon either but IDK really. JVM ran a v. funky Rhyas1 list leveraging Proteus and Rhyas' feat turn to jump him 18-20" and secure downtown assassinations - you might have more success utilizing that since it's v. difficult to avoid the 4" Chain Strike followed by the base hop in2 4" Chain Strike at MAT 8.

That and the fluff/aesthetic behind the faction and how they act/do things is super entertaining.

Grymkin aren't getting a Battlebox btw. Source: WIll Pagani on CID Forums.

"We are aware of this issue. There will be no official battle box, but Journeyman Leagues will have a battle box equivalent. This will be announced with the 2017 Journeyman League packet and will not be decided until all points are solidified to their final values."

Also the Wanderer's lost Admonition for Repudiate, his Trump Arcana has changed to "can transfer a hit for no Fury" and the FA on the Gremlin Swarms in Dark Menagerie is probably going to 3 or 4. The Witchwood also lost its corpse collecting and its RAT dropped to 6 and cannot be played in Dark Menagerie anymore.

We've known this since Grymkin were originally announced

Thanks for sharing though?

What the fuck is a grymkin?

Fair folk types.

Would it be safe to assume they're at least getting an all in one box like Cephalyx did?

So it's okay to mention the list and how often people use it but not see the lists themselves? A little backwards...

I'd like a little rule clarification please/
Rush says that "Target friendly Faction gains +2" movement when advancing as part of it's normal movement..."
Charging is a part of normal movement correct? So if I were to charge with a Rush'd Dire Troll Mauler, he would charge 5"+3"+2" for a total of 10" right?
Also do warbeasts/warjacks need to spend focus/fury to make star attacks?

>Charging is a part of normal movement correct? So if I were to charge with a Rush'd Dire Troll Mauler, he would charge 5"+3"+2" for a total of 10" right?

yes

>Also do warbeasts/warjacks need to spend focus/fury to make star attacks?

no

Going to a 16 player Steamroller in Southport, England in an hour or so. I've seen pictures of the tables already and the terrain is both sparse and tiny. Apparently the LGS's best player is Cygnar, and frankly I'm not surprised if their tables are this much of a shooting gallery.

Opinion time!
What is the worst heavy jack in the game, and why is it the Mad Dog?

Newish Trollbloods player here.
I'm liking the synergy between Ragnor, A Mauler and an Axer with rush/pulverizer on the Mauler and rage on the Axer.
Who might be some other warlocks I would want to look into?

we've all been there my friend :(

So does Julius intend to give Llael back their land, or is he about to create the Greater Swan Reich?

Considering he's trying to marry the true heir to the Llaelese throne, my money's on the second one.

And don't forget about all those poor Thurians in Ord, yearning for righteous Cygnaran government.

No worries. The armies of Cygnar shall bring them democracy! Or monarchy in this case.

That's a funny way to spell Reliant

Even in-faction, the Berserker is worse than the Mad Dog. Even now, I would consider a Mad Dog if my opponent played something 75 points of 12/12 infantry dudes I can trample over.

A Berserker on the other hand, I would never ever play.

So, with Goreshade switching, what other warcasters/warlocks would you want to see jumping between factions?

>Bane Lord Zoktavir

Pls PP. You can replace him in Khador with a Doom Reaver caster or something.

Hoarluk "I change my mind, humans are cool now" Doomshaper.

Cygnar is his home anyways. :D

You will never get Lola, give up zombie-scum.

How many out and out BAD warjacks are there? I look through warroom and don't see many that I can't find a use for anywhere.

I don't know crap about hordes, though. How many of those are "unplayable?"

I mean, almost any Warjack has its uses. Slap a couple buffs on one and throw it at something, and most likely SOMETHING'll happen.

The issue with "bad" warjacks is they're mostly just sub-optimal choices. It's hard to beat a Crusader for the role of "beatstick" because it's cheap, fairly tough, and has a POW 18 mace that hey, might set something on fire. Hard to beat that! Bring pSevvy, drop two down with BoV for dat arc, and enjoy the efficiency.

I agree with , it's not that there's outright BAD models it's just that there's models that do what the not-good choices do better, like the Prime Conflux vs. Prime Axiom. In a vacuum, the Conflux has some good shit and it's priced very well. But when the other option for a single point more is arguably the best colossal in the game, why would I even make it a choice?

I know that the Night Troll is generally considered unplayable, but that's the only one I can really think of off the top my head

I don't even play Cryx, I just think it would be super cool.

Imagine a character unit of Bane Butcher and three spectres disguised as his dead wife, egging him on and come hithering him toward the enemy. Few spells, but placing the spectres in certain places grants cool effects. Putting one in melee range of an enemy model grants members of Butcher's battlegroup Boundless Charge when targeting that model, putting one in B2B with a helljack gives it Dark Shroud, keeping one on Butcher gives him an extra FOC to boost/buy attacks, etc.

How viable would me a mainly ranged cryx army, now that they have gunmage satyx and the new character pistol wraith?

That's actually really dumb. As per MK3, your actually supposed to have a lot of varied terrain, so shooting galleries ARENT a thing...

Night Troll was actually used for assassination at Adepticon, p sure it killed Kaya3 for a win in a later round

Legion's lucky in that basically all of their heavies are good to great and have decently well defined roles.

Once you go down smaller things get dicey. The lessers are all pretty bad in MK3 and compete points wise with Legion's great support solos. The Afflictor is cheap for a medium beast but really can't do much turn one dude a round into an Incubus, which is pretty underwhelming. Teraph is alright and sees play occasionally. Raeks and Nightlurkers are real good shit.

The Nephilim in particular are a mixed bag. Bolt Thrower is good but won't slot into ever list. Protector and Bloodseer have some very niche uses. Soldier is still very underwhelming as an offense focused warbeast even post buff, since for 3 more points you might as well upgrade to a Neraph or use those points on a Nightlurker.

Huh.
Well I suppose a Rage'd Night Troll could do some serious damage to a caster with a free charge.
Was Kaya3 knocked down?

You also forgot that conflux is not supported nor synergizes with anything except A SINGLE jack in the entire faction.

What the fuck is this shit OP? No link to previous thread and no command links in the op either? Fucking worthless.

I have no idea. I know that that act changed how I look at troll lights, and as a result I picked up a Swamp Troll and named him Shrek.

that's true too, yeah. I really want more support for the Conlfux, and I'm hoping that we get it in the form of a new caster

My Assault Kommandos are still in the mail. Now I have to wait til monday/tuesday.

And when they're here, I can't even pick up my Forge Seers at the store on the same day, because they release on the 12th.

Just got back from a relatively competitive Steamroller. Went 1-3.

Hoo boy are Venator Slingers shit :^)

They're a jam unit that sometimes does work.

And when you can stack buffs/debuffs for them, they can do a shitload of work.

I'd rather just bring Swordsmen for the same points since they're basically guaranteed to get work done.

It's not the same points when you consider the UA is what lets them get work done, Swordsmen don't have AD, and they're sure as shit not guaranteed to get work done.

Who said anything about the UA? 13 points for MAT7 PS13 is already a sweet deal if they're just jamming half the time. This is just me comparing Slingers to Swordsmen in a vacuum though. Obviously you'll always want the UA because you tend to play Swordsmen with Makeda1 or Xerxis1 for those dumb turns.

But one thing I'm definitely going to do is start using Ferox and get hold of Rhadeim. One guy at the Steamroller won 2 rounds with Rhadeim assassination out of nowhere. Xerxis1, Stir the Blood, pop feat, leap behind for pseudo MAT10 PS14+3d6 ARM piercing. That's a dead warcaster right there.

It would be Llael still, but Cygnar has a Personal Union over it. His kid would be the king of Cygnar and Llael. I don't forsee Cygnar actually annexing Llael for while yet.

;_;7

He was never great or even very good. Why are you so devastated now?

I feel your pain

Not so much devastated as using a tongue-in-cheek tone to notet that all the Garryth hype during Mk3 spoilers didn't pan out.

It's hard being a hands-on assassination caster with a glass jaw.

Triumph. this was true in mk2 as well.

It's a shame too, because shield+heavy gun is my favorite warjack setup.

There was no real hype.

People looked at him and realized he was viable now. But other warcasters are much more viable. Garryth sees a lot more casual play than he used to, as he can now be a genuine assassination threat, but he doesn't appear in tournaments.

>tfw PP isn't taking my LGS's order
Fuuuuuck I want to fight something more than just battleboxes

What? PP doesn't fulfill orders, that is what distributors are for. Or your LGS is lying to you.

I hope they're not
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what they are doing

PP supplies product through distributors, which is what your store can order from. Distributors may be out of stock for some products but restock regularly. Your LGS should be able to get most things within a week or two.

Since everyone starts with Khador, I decided to against the grain and play Cygnar as my first faction. Is there anything essential outside of the Starter Box I need?

Junior Warcaster, Squire. And a Charger or two.

Does anyone know where I can download NQ #19? The link in the OP doesn't have it anymore.

>Your LGS should be able to get most things within a week or two.
Only if he's within the US.

Is Molik Karn is insane as he reads on paper? Never played against Skorne before.

You should have seen him last edition. Current Karn is reasonable.

Karn is good, maybe even great, but suffers from having a big "FUCKING SHOOT ME" sign over his head. If you can deliver the Molik Missile, shit's dying, but he can be something of a crutch for inexperienced Skorne players, as his gameplan is "get him upfield and apply sword to face". He works well with another big threat, like a Bronzeback, as the enemy will likely only be able to fuck up one before the other gets in and starts doing work.

my LGS in Canada also gets things within a week or two

Super newfag question... Can anyone post a rundown of playstyles for each faction up to date?

I don't really think factions have playstyles anymore, there is enough caster diversity that every faction does everything.

I play circle and people would say high defense/movement shenanigans. But one of the most played casters in circle is Baldur2 which is a high arm beast brick skew.

Same with skorne, they would say slow/high arm faction but I Play a ton of makeda 1/xerxis2 which has fucking spd 8 beasts flying around the board.

I might get a few not 100% correct, as I only really play 3 of them, but have seen enough of them played to give a general rundown.

Convergence of Cyriss: Every piece is a cog in the machine. The clockwork faction is very much that; like clockwork. Order of operations is key, as the trickle of Focus through your jacks, and shenanigans from support pieces, help to bring the full potential to your faction. Aesthetic: Art Deco living robot people.

Cryx: Debuffs EVERYWHERE. Debuff your opponent to make your *just slightly* lower statline (than average) turn into a *slightly* higher statline (than average). Some buffs too. Lots of Soul and Corpse token usage here. Corrosion is their tool of choice. Aesthetic: The undead. Also, Satyxis ladies (horned demon pirate ladies). Great Rack.

Cygnar: WW2 era America with Lighting. Trench dudes, lighting usage on half the faction. JUNIOR + ARCANE SHIELD. The "elite" faction, you could say? Everything is just a liiiiiittle more expensive, point wise, but just slightly higher quality (see Stormblades). No "Heavy" infantry in-faction. They use Mercenaries a LOT. Aesthetic: Blue, yellow, and gold WW2 America. With Crazy Lightning Scientists(TM).

Khador: WW2 Soviet Russia. Here is your rifle, here is your ammo. The "infantry" focused faction. The faction (for fluff reasons) do NOT have ANY Light warjacks. Instead, they use dudes in Ironman Mark 1 style powerarmor as their "light 'jacks." Will usually take just a few 'Jacks and lots of infantry. Aesthetic: Ice and wintery themes, Soviet Russia, RED, FOR ZA MOZALAND (and the Empress, she p cool).

Legion of Everblight: Little fuzzy on this one. Lots of support pieces, usually plays warbeast heavy, with a few units backup. Buffs and debuffs abound. Eyeless Sight is their signature tool (it lets you ignore a couple effects in-game related to LoS). Aesthetic: DARGONS. You like Zerg/Tyranids, right? Mix those with a LITTLE Cthulu.

1/?

Protectorate of Menoth: Holy Zealots from the desert. VERY much the "force your enemy to play YOUR way" faction. Buffs for your 'Jacks and Units, and Debuffs and Detriments for your Enemies. CHOIR FOREVER AND ALWAYS IN EVERY LIST. Fire effects on 90% of the faction. Fluff-wise, their God Menoth is VERY MUCH giving His power to them in battle. Aesthetic: THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU, YOU HEATHEN HERETIC SCUM. Ordo Hereticus.

Retribution of Scyrah: Another one I'm a little fuzzy on. They have a good amount of Stealth, and LOTS of 'Caster assassination options. I like to think of this faction as the "Glass cannon knife in your back." Little less durable, but has the potential to f stuff up. Some key support pieces, and some solid good infantry options. Aesthetic: Elves. Magic elves. With lots of space-ship looking gear. Rounded and silver everywhere. Futurism look.

Skorne Empire: I have the least experience with Skorne, unfortunately. No one I play with regularly plays this faction. They use lots of Blood magic, and they punish their foes in ways aside from just with damage. Some good buffs, and debuffs. A few key supports. Less shooty options than most other factions.
Aesthetic: Persian 300. Lots of body horror. Flesh pain hooks in most of the flesh. HORABURU SAMURAI DESU kinda faction, with their "Hoksune Code" thing. Kill the enemies while you stare into their eyes and call them a bitch. Guns are for bitches.

2/?

Warmachine is the MTG of Miniature wargames, what did you expect?

Trollbloods: The only faction you could call "Neutral Neutral." Looooooots of buffs. Buffs everywhere, all the times. Out of the whole faction, 95% of it is on a Medium or larger sized base. VERY few things in this faction can be considered "small." Also kinda "order of operation" faction, like Cyriss, but not in quite so much of a rigid, clockwork way. Very fluid order of operations, to meet the need of the turn. Aesthetic: Big blue trolls. Rocks growin' out of em. Their dudes; OI, YA LEIK UR HAGGIS 'N MEAD, DONCHA LAD!? Their beasts; FEED ME MOAR.

Circle of Orboros: Forest druid people that are trying to keep the World God from waking up and fucking everything. Harder to hit, faster than average. Movement shenanigans on quite a bit of stuff, but slightly less so than Mark2. 3/4th of their faction are Werewolves and Satyrs, and things like that, and the other bit is Stone Golem themed things, which are the opposite. Slow/high armor. Aesthetic: Green, stones, wood, gold. Lots of fur pelts/furry creatures.

Mercenaries: Grab-bag of things. Every piece can be brought with the other Warmachine factions, or made into a Mercenary-only list. 4 main themes within; Pirates, Dwarves, Mercs for Hire, and oh yeah, the MIND FUCK(TM) guys. Pirates are the traditional kind of theme pirates. Dwarves are not your DnD style dwarves, no beards/booze. Mercs for Hire is most of the stuff here, which can be split up via fluff-things, but not really playstyle/aesthetic. And Cephalyx. The boogiemen of the city. The dudes you hear whispers of in the night. Lots of mind powers, and enslaved humans. Can ONLY be taken as a Cephalyx army, or a few pieces can be brought into Cryx.

3/?

Minions: Hordes version of Mercs. Pig-men and Gators. Pigs are very much the scavenger faction. Lots of bits and pieces from other factions they have clashed with, on their weapons/armor. Crazy Doctor Man turned some pig-dudes into mechanical monsterpigs. Gators are very Cajun. Lots of Undead/Death magic. Amphibious on 99% of their stuff, meaning they give no fucks about water.

Take into consideration that in each faction, there are options that are completely different than the "Norm" of the faction. And each faction has a few different playstyles you COULD get out of them. Basically, my suggestion, is to find a few factions you jive with aesthetically/thematically. Out of those choices, look deeper and see what kinda playstyles they offer, and go from there. In my opinion, theres no reason to play a faction that you dislike visually/thematically/aesthetically/lore-wise, just cause they are "DA BEST." Play what you enjoy, find what works and what makes you have the most fun.

4/4

This. You either play a meta list or lose.

How many years did mkii and mki exist?

Only if you're bad.

Fuck no. 19 points to annihilate a single model is pretty shit considering he will NOT survive a heavy going on him. If Skorne had access to Greivous Wounds outside of a single upkeep on Makeda3 to my knowledge, he'd be MUCH better since he could charge in, slap something twice, sidestep back, then move another 5" back.

Unless you're looking at the Mk2 card, in which case yeah he's insane.

the nerf to sidestep/change of bond to sidestep really gimped his niche as a laser guided scalpel with anyone but a makeda and in conjunction w/ the meta shift towards multi heavy box spam (with a substantial portion of competitive lists running up to 8-9 heavies) its not tenable to run a 19 point heavy unless its presence amplifies your own list exponentially (i.e. Chiron and Zaadesh2).

You mean the nerfs to:
>Sidestep
>His bond
>Makeda1
>His animus
>The Bronzeback's animus
>Puppet Master
>The initial removal of free charges
Gimped his niche.