Why do people go to Stannis instead of Daenerys?

Doubtful, one or both of them is gonna eat shit before the story is done. "Bitter-sweet" is how GRRM described the ending.

Shit like this is why I'm actively cheering for the goddamn ice zombies.

>implying we will ever get to see GRRM's ending

This. This so much.

>This.
Fuck off. Return to Reddit if you want to upvote posts.

>be the writer of a beloved book series
>write under a page per day
>be morbidly obese
>also getting pretty old
>and also not making an effort to improve my health
>people still think the series is gonna end before me

Literally every other sentence here was wrong. Stannis is far from "too pragmatic". Renly was pragmatic, because Renly was willing enough to play the game to actually promise people things to get them on his side rather than "Follow me because I am your rightful king" Stannis is a "seasoned" person who got stuck in a siege. That was his big military achievement before the War of Five Kings, and during the War of Five Kings, he didn't really do much better. In fact, now that I consider it, if we're comparing him to Daenerys in that regard, her military successes outshine Stannis's as well.

This is a good post.

>Stannis fulfilling a great prophecy
>Stannis has a flaming sword
>Stannis has awesome fire church on his side
>Stannis has a great legacy behind him
>Stannis is fighting for the fucking land they grew up in and know and love

>Daenerys is a young woman
>Daenerys is in a far away and exotic land
>Daenerys is a Targaryen who sleeps with her brother and is the mother of dragons, like all Targaryens.
>Daenerys has a weird slave army (this is what everyone else hears about her)
>Daenerys crucifies people
>Daenerys breaks her treaties with merchant lords and has them killed
>Daenerys abandons her subjects to go fly around on her dragons

>That was his big military achievement before the War of Five Kings
He crushed Victarion's Iron Fleet during the Greyjoy rebellion which allowed Robert to invade and put them down.

Only faggots care about your stupid titty show

Alright, fair enough.

...

The Night's King is the real hero.

Re lay is pragmatic? He arbitrarily decided that he had to be king for literally no reason other than he wanted to be. He could have been the next heir to the throne (the laws don't clearly support Shirene over Renly) and Stannis is fairly unlikely to produce a new son with his wife. He would have been a prince with no responsibilities and the heir apparent if he'd simply acted dutifully. But he was easily manipulated by his boyfriend's family and fucked the realm

Every other hero in GOT had to break their backs to get into the positions and status they are in. Danys got her position only because of her dragons. She doesn't know shit about politics which to other characters is a very fatal flaw but hold really no repercussions for Danys. There is whole love triangle thing that turned me off of Korra for the same reason of not being appropriate at all and makes the character not very likable (one thing to not be pure, it's another for them to play with the hearts of multiple lovers, we would call a guy scum if he did that, hell that was the reason for the Red Wedding). She pretends to caring while caring nothing about the cultures of whatever country she is in control of. Added to the fact that all her villains seem to be Mwahaha evil in a series that's suppose to be morally grey. And the reason she's doing everything is not because of any noble reason but because "muh birthright" which is bullshit since the only reason her family was in charge was because of hostile imperial takeover.

basically Deanerys whole arc is if you inserted Twilight into Berserk. Everything about it is wrong and jarring. At least the flawed but well-intentioned Stannis fits the tone of the fucking story

Daenerys was a goddamn hobo Targaryan pretender that people mostly forgot about.

Stannis the Mannis was the rough but effective master of one of Westeros's main naval fiefs, the brother of the usurper king that ousted the increasingly unstable Targaryans, and Robert's kids are all either bastards or abominations that aren't even his.
And Targaryan was founded on access to dragons they haven't had in centuries.

The Siege of Storm’s End

Stannis reluctantly joined with the rebels. Robert tasked Stannis with holding Storm’s End while he marched the majority of his forces west. When Robert was defeated at the Battle of Ashford by the Mace Tyrell (actually Randyll Tarly), it cleared Targaryen loyalist forces to move on Storm’s End. The Tyrell army set up camp outside of the walls of Storm’s End while the royal fleet led by Paxter Redwyne closed off Shipbreaker Bay.

A lesser leader would have capitulated; a lesser leader would have sought honorable terms for surrender, but Stannis did nothing of the sort. His orders were to hold the castle, and he did so at great expense. Here, Stannis demonstrates two aspects of leadership that defined his character as a commander: personal courage and loyalty. He would suffer death before disobeying the orders that his brother had given him.

Despite being cut off from the world, Stannis held. He refused to surrender for an entire year. At death’s door, only the timely arrival of Davos’s onion and salt fish kept the entire garrison from starving to death. And so, they continued to hold out against Mace Tyrell.

Following the Battle of the Trident and the Sack of KL, Ned Stark moved his army to relieve the siege of Storm’s End. The Tyrells dipped their banners at the news of the results of the Trident and the approach of Ned Stark and swore fealty to Robert Baratheon.

It is not explicitly stated that Stannis knew how important his task was, but I’d like to think that Stannis was keenly aware that his efforts tied up one of the largest contingents of Targaryen loyalist forces. I’d also like to think that he understood that simply holding Storm’s End for honor’s sake was not enough reason to hold it for an entire year. My guess is that Stannis saw the strategic value in holding the castle.

Good news!

Everyone else is so incompetently power mad that it'll be series breaking for them to not win!

>"Bitter-sweet" is how GRRM described the ending.

Eagerly anticipating it coming out in 2039 from whatever _____anderson finished it from his notes.

Being undead doesn't seem all that bad, anyway.

Amphibious Assault: Dragonstone
After holding Storm’s End for a year, one would think that Stannis would be given a respite from war. But this was not to be the case. Stannis was then tasked to take Dragonstone, the traditional seat of Targaryen power. Utilizing part the turncloak fleet of Paxter Redwyne and building a brand new fleet for his brother, he prepared to invade Dragonstone.

Although we don’t know much about the particulars of the battle itself, we do know that he commanded the invasion of Dragonstone from the deck of his flagship, Fury (ACOK, Davos III). This gave Stannis the best command and control of his forces – perhaps the single-most important tactical aspect of leadership. We also know that Stannis was successful in seizing the island fortress from the last Targaryen hold-outs. But amphibious assaults coupled with sieges are among the most dangerous and difficult tasks an army and navy can perform. His utilization of joint warfare was most likely key to winning the battle there. The fact that he was successful speaks volumes of his tactical adaptability as we do not have evidence he commanded a navy before.

In fact, the only real ‘black mark’ is that Viserys and Daenerys Targaryen escaped to Essos – a ‘failure’ that soured the already cold relationship between Robert and Stannis. But I tend to feel that Stannis is justified in having a grievance against Robert, who blamed him for the loss of the last two Targaryens.

>not wanting Aegon to win

Full pleb

>implying that all his notes aren't in locked in a device that's set to burn them all when his heart stops beating

>Rightful king of Westeros who always keeps his word and believes in actual justice

>Histrionic psychopath from a line of psychopaths who rules according to her feelings and crucifies hundreds of people on a whim

By pretty much every metric, Stannis is the better man and the better ruler.

>her military successes outshine Stannis's as well.
But her military successes gained her literally nothing, rendering them meaningless. She stole one city, ruined it, and then left and allowed it to collapse into ruin. Then she stole another city, ruined it too, spent several months getting rekt by the resistance and then burned it down by accident and flew away on a dragon.

Stannis's failures all stem from unexpected circumstances, but Dany's failures were all entirely predictable. Nobody could've seen Blackwater Bay coming, that was Tyrion being a genius, but anyone could've seen the Meereen fuckup a mile away.

Battle of Pearl Harbor (Battle of Lannisport) Battle of Midway (Fair Isle) and Operation Downfall (Great Wyk)

The Greyjoys struck before Robert could assemble. Victarion Greyjoy and the Iron Fleet sailed into Lannisport and burned the Lannister fleet that was preparing to sail against the Greyjoys. This brazen surprise attack put the Iron Throne on defense. Ironborn raided the West and Rodrik Greyjoy laid siege to Seaguard. Basically, the Greyjoy rebellion got off to a great start, and it may have continued except for a certain Master of Ships.

Stannis, being the master of ships, joined the royal fleet with his former enemy, Paxter Redwyne and sailed north on the Sunset Sea. Off the coast of Fair Isle, he laid a trap for Victarion Greyjoy. Here’s how Victarion remembers it:

The memory of Fair Isle still rankled in the iron captain’s memory. Stannis Baratheon had descended on the Iron Fleet from both north and south whilst they were trapped in the channel between the island and the mainland, dealing Victarion his most crushing defeat. – ADWD, Chapter 56, Victarion I

Stannis’s careful selection of the point where the Iron Fleet was decisive in destroying the Ironborn’s greatest advantage: seapower. With Ironborn seapower destroyed, Robert and his army could move easily into the Iron Islands and destroy the Greyjoy Rebellion.

The actions of Stannis and his fleet cleared the Sunset Sea of the Iron Fleet and allowed for Robert and Ned to ferry soldiers into Pyke for the main assault against the base of Greyjoy power. And while Robert took Pyke, Stannis led the successful invasion of Great Wyck.

user please.

They're probably just on a computer from 1985 that will get thrown out by accident.

Hey user.

I have a question for you.

Do you have anything negative to say about this post?

Martin does all his writing on typewriters.

>implying fAegon has a claim to anything other than a shallow grave in Pentos

Come on, user.

Jokes aside didn't he confirm he writes all his books on DOS?

Because Stannis is a mannis who works hard for every scrap while she's a SUPER SPESHUL little girl just handed her most valuable assets. In the real world, much less this insanely brutal nightmare she'd be a puppet or dead within a week if the universe didn't keep tripping over itself to hand her shit. Free dragons, her domineering brother dead, her husband dead, etc.

Yeah, I was sure I remembered reading something about him still using the same word processing software he started with in the 80s.

>He arbitrarily decided that he had to be king for literally no reason other than he wanted to be.
>wanting to be king
>arbitrary

Yeah, gonna agree with this. There wasn't anything arbitrary about Renly's ambitions. Foolish and impulsive, maybe, but not arbitrary.

Renly took the opportunity to declare himself king because he rightly assumed no one would willingly choose Stannis's brand of autism over someone like him. Thing is Renly would've been just as terrible a king as Stannis. If Stannis's biggest flaw is he takes everything too seriously, Renly's was he never took anything seriously. Cat herself mused how Renly's entire bid for king was basically throwing a giant Renaissance Faire. Yeah it won a few hearts and minds but Mace Tyrell is a pretty poor ally when you get down to it.

Is he the night's king

Compassionate rulers are shit rulers. The best kings are those completely willing to kill people or get people killed to do what needs to be done. If Danny was a Roman Empress she would get shanked by her Praetorians for being weak. Stannis however would be able to rule.

Dany had no problem murdering people she didn't like. That's how she got the Unsullied.

>Stannis however would be able to rule
Not for long. Everyone hates Stannis because he's a joyless sperg with no compassion at all. He would've been an iron-fisted dictator and those breed rebellion regardless if the rebellion is just or not.

If Westeros was filled exclusively with Ned Starks he'd probably be able to rule pretty well but that's not the case. By the close of Book 5, the closest thing to Ned 2.0 is a teenager who's more interested in stopping the impending zombie invasion, and even then he just lay down for a dirt nap.

You're aware that Daenerys is going mad, right?

Her brain is slowly being eaten because of too much incest. She's going to be one of the mad Dragon-Kings, with a stash of living WMDs.

Basically, shit is going to get fucked up.

Does it matter? Stannis is dead.

You know, thinking about it...Doesn't that just start the cycle of incest all over again?

I mean, Daeny is his aunt, right?

>I mean, Daeny is his aunt, right?

In the show yeah. In the book Jon's origins are still kind of ambiguous. Personally I like the idea Jon actually is Ned's son even if that kind of spits in the face of Mel's spidey-senses.

Interestingly, the book sets up a conflict between Dany and Aegon. A second Dance of the Dragons.

Didn't Varys say he's been working over a decade to make the perfect king?
And doesn't Aegon have the madness of his family?

Television or Books? Makes a hell of a difference. Book Stannis is a good man. Show Stannis is a child murdering fuckwad.

Still probably a better ruler than Dany could ever be regardless.

A compassionate ruler is one who acts like Danny, she was driven to end slavery. A smart and politically adept King or Queen would only do such a thing if it did not weaken their position.

And people can only rebel if there are people left to rebel. Look up the Harrying of the North. If people do not comply, you genocide them.

Daenerys would never work in real life because she gives her people too much freedom. People don't want actual freedom, they want the illusion of it.

Yep, the Stannis/Daenerys argument essentially boils down to popular appeal and its realities.

Daenerys is the cool, popular choice with the peasant appeal and prophecies to bolster support, but GoT shows the reality of giving a sheltered early teen the keys to power through ancient rights/dragons, she fucks up repeatedly because she is all dreams and wishful thinking with no expereince or practicality.

Stannis is the opposite, no awesome prophecies or dragons(although he does hire a witch) he isn't exciting or the chosen one but...he actually knows how to run a kingdom and has practical day to day logitical knowledge.

Its essentially image versus function.

Because he's the one rightful king, do you not understand how lines of succession work? Targaryens lost the throne fair and square Dany can go get fucked.

>“Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day.” Donal Noye

What did he mean by this?

>it's a showfags jerk off Daenerys without knowing about the Siege of Meereen and what happened to Astapor and Yunkai after she abandoned them episode

This, stannis won the war as much as his brother. He pinned half the enemy forces for the duration of the whole war.

he means that Robert was the most effective ruler because he was more pragmatic than Stannis but less faggy than Renly

Stannis is the rightful heir to the throne. End of story.

...

Stannis is a boring, stick-in-the-mud, by-the-book person and that's the type of ruler he'd be. Law to the letter every time.

Danny is young and has no idea how to be anything but a conqueror, which she thinks is the same as being a ruler. It's not.

Because for all of Stannis' many flaws he had a strict code of honor and principals. It had been made abundantly clear that he valued talent over lineage, his skill as a combat leader and as a just ruler were likewise unquestioned by literally everyone in the book. He and Eddard are two of a kind. Stannis doesn't play the game because he doesn't give a shit. Just like Eddard. He's stubborn and set in his ways but for people who have gone through the books or the series or are just sick of the constant politics of real life a guy like Stannis has appeal. He's there to do his job. He'll do it well, without complaint, and he'll throw people that try to play politics against him off a wall. That's pretty in vogue right now. Stannis is everything people want out of a leader. Someone fair, competent, and free of corruption. Stannis does what he does because he's technically the rightful king and frankly everyone fucking knows it so he's doesn't really have incentive to legitimize his claim.

>her husband dead
How was this a good thing for her? He JUST agreed to take his Dothraki and conquer Westeros for her.

He means he was gay for Renly.

Renly is gay?

But her house were rulers for 300 years

Daenerys is loved by everyone because she is young, a woman, and she has dragons. She is also an incredibly poor leader, constantly making rash decisions motivated by whims and flimsiness, and unable to grasp the simplest politics. She wins by virtue of having the biggest hammer of the world and a large amount of plot device.

Stannis is hated because he is stern, uncharismatic, and often not understood by those around. He is also a just man, deeply preoccupied by the values and ethics of justice, a military genius beyond measure, and a good politician.

Daenerys is the leader everyone want. Stannis is the one everyone need.

It doesn't really matter that Renly was so frivolous, though. First off, his army was so ridiculously huge that he would have won the crown even without being a skilled strategist. No other army was a match for those numbers. And as for ruling, I don't see a problem there either. All he has to do is make friends (easy for him) and make sure the small council members do their jobs.

...

I don't care about either of these dumbos. In fact, I'm just waiting for the Others to wipe out all of Westeros, then jump out of the books and eat GRRM. He's too bad a writer and too fat to live.

>He is also a just man, deeply preoccupied by the values and ethics of justice

Tell that to his daughter.

They're in different fucking countries.

This.Unless Sweden crashes and burns soon, there won't be a Sweden left in 2100.

>Wouldn't it be better to go for her

>All he has to do is make friends (easy for him) and make sure the small council members do their jobs.

Renly's too much of a dumbass and a pussy to hold the kingdoms together. And a kinslayer on top of that - one who doesn't even follow the rules of the kingdom he purports to rule? At least Robert's rebellion had a pretty good justification. Renly's rebellion? Its only justification was that his army was bigger. Yeah, that sets real great precedence. If he succeeds, what he's doing is just set himself up to be overthrown by the next guy who manages to put a big enough army together, which is gonna start being real easy to do now that he has even further undermined the legitimacy of the throne.

we talk of book!Stannis, not the abomination that is D&D's caricature

Dungeons and Dragons?

I'd pay good money to see Jon Snow get killed again.

Hate the little shit more than any sane person should hate a fictional character.

>Now sheathe your bloody sword, or I'll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found.
Yeah.

David Benioff and DB Weiss

This.

"I'll send a raven across the Narrow Sea, and tell them that I support the usurper over there, instead of the usurper over here!"

Ah, yes.
Those motherfuckers.
What a pair of tools.

Stannis = Putin.
Here you go.

>Lawful Lawful vs le chaotic good meme

Stannis is the principled choice. He might as well have written Meditations.

>implying daenerys is good

Reminder that the future Hand Ser (Lord?) Davos will fix any problems the Mannis' unbreakable will could cause.

>who is Olga of Kiev?

who

A woman from kiev

But Aegon doesn't have any dragons

If don't know if this is bait or you're this retarded.

You're aware that the Dance of the Dragons is because both were members of House Targayen, right? The fact that actual dragons were involved are basically incidental.

The civil war shouldn't even have happened. God damn hightowers

>Pretends to be redpilled
>Doesn't even know history

Daenerys is a complete shit leader who Mary Sue's her way to victory every time. Basically everyone does everything for her because of XYZ reason. Stannis would have made a solid king, but his extremes and burning people isn't

The ideal kingdom would be one with Ned Stark on the Throne and Post Nose Tyrion as the hand. Ned could be substituted for one of his kids or Jon. King needs to be someone who believes in doing what is right and is strong enough to make tough decisions. The hand needs to be someone smart enough to ensure that course of action happens.

Everyone else is pretty shit at it.