How come the force is so underpowered?

We should probably get this out of the way and be done

Yeah go fuck yourself. NuCanon is a ball of shit that should never have seen the light of day.

Go back to wanking off to Wendig.

Shitty writers devolving the Force down into power-ranking garbage and 'x-men power-lists' and I'm supposed to feel bad that they chucked the whole thing into the bin. It's uncreative shits like OP and those pandering to them that dragged the old canon into the mud.

Yeah, that's the reason why cutting off all this EU bullshit was actually the best thing Disney has done to the franchise.

Go read Tales of the Jedi, then weep for what has been lost.

Without getting into whether it was good or bad, it was necessary. Disney want to do stuff with the license, not retread old ground that nobody cares about and try to sort the dross from the good stuff.

They appear to be importing the good bits into the new canon anyway, while leaving the shitty stuff behind.

Thanks for summarizing what I think about the new canon in a non-offensive way.
People who unironically bring up Starkiller still need to fuck off, though.

Which all one could really ask for, I guess

It was mostly the fact that there were practically no barriers to entry for EU writers.
While this gave you good stuff that was a bit out there, like kotor 2 and the kotor comic series, you also got shit like the Suncrusher and Traviss crap going under the radar.
The really shitty EU writers also had the nasty habit of trying to one up each other, rather than creating antagonists that were dangerous in ways other than force power levels, such as Thrawn.

>KOTOR 2
>Good
Pick one and only one. Anyone drinking the Kreia-aid should be banned from the star wars fandom forever.

Suncrusher and the whole NJO bullshit i can do without but the rest is at least readable without popping a bloodvessel.

I'll pick both, and smile at the fact that Luke canonically took the Kreiapill.

That was a Sith, and he required a meditation chamber and a focus to do it.

>If anything truly is possible with the force
What gave you that idea?

>KOTOR 2 was bad for bringing up a valid criticism of the Force
It was so good it dictated the plot of the latest Star Wars.

If you are referring to the TLJ teaser, what Luke says is with 99.9% certainty taken out of context.
It's going to be something along the line of either
>"It's time for the Jedi to end their exile and return to the fight."
or
>"It is time for the Jedi to end, and a new tradition of force-users to take their place. You are the first of that tradition, Rey."

I'm pretty sure the whole push is towards neutral force users, given the whole thing about balance. Light and dark are lies, the force is the force.

>Implying this is not the result of KOTOR 2
The Jedi Order rebuilt after the council was slaughtered as a changed organization that was interventionist as fuck and suffered a millennial long backlash for kidnapping kids and toppling governments in favor of the Republic

I'm more than fine with the direction they're taking with the Force and the focus being more on it as a philosophy/religion along with trying to discover or rediscover how it all fits together. Leave the power-wank in the garbage where it belongs. Also, if this turns out to be a case of needing to kill an orphan for every good deed you do in order to achieve some fucked 'balance' and that's what being a 'grey jedi' boils down to, Star Wars will have truly lost me.

Hopefully it'll be more along the lines of 'The Jedi expecting people to act like unemotional robots was really fucking stupid', embracing the wholeness of human experience, both passion and control, rather than rigidly clinging to one or the other.

So... exactly like the New Jedi Order.

Every bittersweet story of love and loss has had the same message. You can love someone, realize that the time you spent together was important and precious, but when they go, you find a way to make peace with that, cherish the memories you made together and keep them in your heart while moving forward. Doesn't mean you don't do everything *ethical* in your power to save/help them, but no one is omnipotent, nor a god (at least not those this message is usually given to).

All it's saying is to not give into despair and use that connection as an excuse to self-destruct or commit unspeakable atrocities in the name of lost love. Easy enough to get viewers to accept this view when the loved one is already in the ground but try to do so when they're all still alive and suddenly accusations of being a heartless monster who shuns love and attachments start flying around. Most fans seem incapable of accepting this message and Anakin couldn't wrap is dumbass head around the concept either.

Don't know if the fault is with the viewers, the creators, Lucas or all of them. 'If you love someone, let them go' can't be that hard to wrap one's head around.

>'The Jedi expecting people to act like unemotional robots was really fucking stupid'

This was never the case though.
They warned against too strong attachment but they clearly had relationships and emotions.

You appear to have quoted the wrong person, as what I mentioned has absolutely nothing to do with TLJ - it's from Tales of the Jedi: the Golden Age of the Sith.

> I don't know shit about the setting
> let me postulate about the setting in absolutes
go fuck yourself

>I don't see Darth Vader force crushing planets or anything like that.
Where's the problem?

Starkiller was about being a "bad" force wielder in that he used it only for UNLIMITED POWAH to becoming a good grey jedi in that he embraced both sides of the force

In the Darth Plagueis novel, Plagueis gets near death during an assassination attempt and starts throwing Force telekinesis blasts that tear the assassins' bodies apart, leaving the room covered in their gibbed chunks.

Always thought that part was cool.

The impression I got from Luke is "The only way for the Sith to well and truly be defeated is for the Jedi to go down with it, as each feeds the other"

So yeah, New Jedi Order with a different name

A: SBP could beat up almost any setting, thats a shitty example and you should feel bad for using it.
B: Darth Nihilus can eat planets,

Only one Sith has been described as specifically this powerful. Since him, they've had to build Death Stars for things like that.

You might want to take the mouse cock out of your mouths, seeing as they now canonified this retarded idea that Palpatine was trying to achieve immortality by pulling an Evangelion and turning everyone into tang.

Oh, i get it, you're one of those retards that thought Kreia wasn't just being the devil's advocate to make you think about your actions and their consequences.
You really did think she advocated shitting on every beggar for the fun of it.
Poor bastard.

No, simply convinced that untalented shitstains will inevitably degrade and strip away any subtlety, meaning or depth (if the current creators can even achieve this, but at least they seem to be giving it a try) giving to 'balance', the philosophies one can find about/within the Force and any spiritualism they manage to insert in there all the while mouth-breathing retards will happily shovel that shit and praise the notion of killing an orphan for every life saved because all that matters is being able to shoot lighting and choking whoever, whenever while proudly proclaiming to be a 'gray jedi'.

The Force is generally underpowered compared to other universes (speaking in terms of average force user vs average superhuman of other universe), however combat precognition properly applied is a really strong ability in small scale combat.

A Jedi properly trained for combat, instead of diplomacy and monastic life whose main form of combat training consists of what is essentially the laser sword equivalent of yoga, is (when acting alone) a very good assassin, bounty hunter, bodyguard, thief, or fighter. When acting in groups, their combat vulnerabilities almost vanish and they become highly effective battlefield soldiers. If the necessary concentrations cannot be achieved, they can instead be paired with mundane soldiers as highly versatile multipurpose support troops (capable of healing, removing smoke or poison gas, detecting hostile organics at long range, using combat clairvoyance to detect enemy sniper fire, supplementary long range communication with other force users, etc.) while also being highly effective close quarters defense and improving the mobility of the unit due to being what is essentially a living shield that throws your opponents attacks back at them.

Gray Jedi were a mistake.
There needs to be some material that hammers home the obvious so spastics finally grasp it, namely that Lightning isn't primarily electrical power pulled out of their ass for X force points; it's the physical manifestation of somebody hating you to death via the force.
You CAN'T do that shit and still claim you're anything other than Dark side, because the mere fact you hate somebody that badly and are willing to act on it means you're already fucked.
Same with choking. Sure, superficially it seems the same as just pushing someone around but applying the pressure elsewhere, but the fact remains that mentally your primary goal is inflicting pain, rather than attempting to defend yourself or others.

>The Force is generally underpowered compared to other universes

Which is why crossovers and Universe v Universe threads are cancer.

Well, I do like to think about that sometimes, since a lot of the stuff I'm interested in basically boils down to "You're weaker than the other guy and you can never be stronger, but you have to beat him anyway". In my experience, the Force tends to be a good fit for that because it greatly expands a characters tactical options while only notably increasing their raw power if the writer sucks.

In a crossover with, for instance, Marvel, a Force User should be unable to go toe to toe with Spiderman (assuming no lightsaber or Spidey destroys it quickly because he's not an idiot), but their support abilities (stun, push, mental effects) could give them the edge necessary to win, especially since their version of combat clarivoyance is less prone to backfiring.

>I'm more than fine with the direction they're taking with the Force and the focus being more on it as a philosophy/religion along with trying to discover or rediscover how it all fits together.
This scene makes me hopeful that at least some people working on Star Wars still get it.

Can someone tell me why Superboy Prime is so overpowered that he was the example as opposed to just Superman?

youtube.com/watch?v=HMUKGTkiWik

If you think of the Force as magic that melts people and destroys planets, I'm afraid you've missed the point entirely.

Because he doesn't have super strength/durability/flight

He's Ultra telekinetic, so he can "hit" as hard as he wants, fly as fast as he can imagine, deflect any amount of damage directed at him, oh and punch holes in reality.

did he died??

Are you sure that wasn't written by Dr Seuss?

yes.
Maul is kil

Its happened on a few occasions. Jedi masters are capable of containing dark side rituals capable of razing continents.

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Superboy Prime" bullshit that's going on in the crossover system right now. The Force deserves much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself became a Jedi for 2,400,000 Credits (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with the force for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my mind.

Jedi Masters spend years working on the force and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest powers known to mankind.

The force is thrice as useful as comic powers and thrice as powerful for that matter too. Anything a Cape Hero can cut through, a Jedi can cut through better. I'm pretty sure the force could easily bisect a Krptonian in full sunlight with a simple mental slash.

Ever wonder why DC never bothered crossing over with Star Wars? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Jedi and their force of destruction. Even in the jedi civil war, Sith soldiers targeted the men with the force first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? The force is simply the best power that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the crossovers system.

EU Palps could body hop and create fleet-destroying hyperspace-breaching force storms. (Which was the worst part of Dark Empire, the various B-plots were all better.)

Nah, he just got sliced in half. He's shown an ability to come back from that before, so we can't be sure.

Yeah, he dead.

>Wizards being gods is frequently a balance issue

if magic isn't strictly better than what you can accomplish physically, why even have magic? I mean that's the sole reason magic exists in stories,to solve problems that can't be solved otherwise.

because wizards are nerds that can't pick up heavy stuff

because magic is an alternate way of looking at problems. Why pick locks when you can just kick doors down?

No that's Post-Crisis Superboy. Superboy prime is explicitly the Superboy from golden age/silver age comics making him immune to kryptonite and able to do nonsense things that happened in those comics

long story short, compared to the power levels that exist in his universe, Superman isn't overpowered at all.

>Why pick locks when you can just kick doors down?

why specialize in lockpicking or breaking down doors when magic lets you do both?

because whenever you unlock a door using magic, it summons demons. sometimes thats bad

Judging by how Disney is finding new ways to fuck things up harder, it's not.

>he didn't believe
That is why you fail.

Reminder that "Gray Jedi" are canon and Bendu, The One In The Middle is the strongest canonical force wielder the current canon has.

Nothing they've done is remotely as retarded as the Vong.

Nope.

Gray Jedi aren't canon. Palpatine still is far and away stronger than anything that Bendu has shown, if you would actually bother to read Lords of the Sith.

Gray force wielders are canon. And Emps dies to getting gently tossed off a cliff.

Bendu laughs off AT-AT fire and becomes one with the force on the same level as Obi-Wan and Yoda.

Bendu, along with The Father have been shown to be above both Jedi and Sith while taking the "Gray" route of the force. This is canon and anyone who disagrees doesn't understand the whole point of balance in the force.

The only thing that Bendu has done that is anywhere close to on par to with other known canon Force users is that storm thing in the finale.

As for "gray"? He's not. His idea of being in the middle is being apathetic until he's forced not to be.

Or the man I hate is so bad he will make all the maniacs throughout the history look like lambs. It doesn't make me a good man but it does justify the use of lightning.

>apathetic until he's forced not to be.

Yes, and? That's the whole point of neutrality. This is why the Sith and Jedi fail in every endeavor, they are using the force to conform things to their ideals instead of just letting the force "be."

That has nothing to do with why the Jedi and Sith failed. It just means he's a lazy fuck who gets involved when it suits him.

Magic isn't about solving a problem better than mundane means, it's about cheating alternate solutions more suited to your abilities into being.

Rather than be good at the original game, you just change the rules.

TIEmy Whimy.

The point of the force is that you never *need* to get involved. The force knows what its doing. Jedi and Sith constantly throw off the balance fighting for their ideals instead of just chilling and actually trusting in the force. This is told time and time again and yet people don't seem to get it. Probably because the writers keep changing, but still. This is the direction Disney is taking canon. "Do the right thing and it works out in the end."

>Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

>you just change the rules.
>not realizing that changing the rules just for yourself is always better than any other alternative

There was reasons why ancient stories and myths are about more physical inclined heroes than all powerful wizards. They actually could change reality, that why the ones who possess magical abilities are sought of by those who don't, and in most narratives are treated as plot devices instead of full fledged characters.

That is why magic without complex rules and limitations makes for bad design and makes any player capable of magic immediately better than others.

Jedi have nothing to do with imbalance in the Force - or at least, they shouldn't even at their most problematic. The prequel era Jedi had a shitton of problems, but they STILL didn't upset the Force as much as the Sith did to the point where a prophesied hero was required to return things to how they should be.

And before you go
>muh misread prophecy means he was supposed to kill the Jedi too

No. We have Word of God that the destruction of the Sith, not the Jedi, was the focus of the prophecy.

Because the Sith were the fuckheads who imbalanced the Force in the first place, and it is THEIR power that was causing the Jedi to go blind.

Kryptonite and magic sources from his own universe have the same effect on him as they do with Superman. Thing is, in his universe, Krypton was completely obliterated. meaning no kryptonite and he's never in his own universe because that one got retconned out of existance.

As for him being overpowered, he's no more powerful than a normal Superman. He just happens to have an armor that stores yellow sunlight and gives him more of that than a Superman without it would have, meaning more power. Take him out of his armor and you get a regular Superman.

The Jedi where still blinded by their own goals and aspirations. This is shown when Yoda goes down to the force planet to finish his ghost training. He had to defeat his darkside aspect of himself, by not letting it control and tempt him, but also by accepting that it was apart of himself. This is very telling because his darkside took the form of pride, of being on the moral highground. Which is where the Jedi lose out as practioners of the force. Balance is the way of the force. Not Light vs Dark.

This is why the Jedi die out, and the few left all become hermits. They finally realise the power in time and patience and letting the force do its own work.

I entirely suspect to get a more clear message similar to this is the next movie. "The Last Jedi" indeed.

Why should it be all-powerful? Mind tricks, telekinesis, far-sensing and some combat precog are already good as is.

Anything more would make other PC classes irrelevant. Magic should give a small advantage, not make blasters obsolete.

>because whenever you unlock a door using magic, it summons demons

So basically only when you accept not wrecking shit up is the best course of action you get the power to better wreck shit up?

Maybe you should play more JRPGs.

Balance is not equal parts light and dark. It is not walking the middle path.

The Dark Side is Not A Good Thing. You use it, and it messes with your head. It's addictive.

The Jedi had the right of it when they say don't use the dark side. It's going to end badly. And every single person who has turned to the dark side has done some terrible things or end with a terrible fate.

It's worth noting that the Prophecy was about the destruction of the Sith, not the Sith and the Jedi, and not the dark side as a whole.

The dark side is natural, but its overall influence is minor. Even the biggest dark side cults outside the Sith basically might have control over maybe a single system.

But what the Sith did, (even if we don't know how) altered the balance to the point where it was actively blinding the Jedi, blunting their ability to even use the Force.

The prequel era Jedi absolutely had a problem with pride and hypocrisy, but by no means was it something that required them to be the focus of a near-genocidal elimination.

By the way, the Prophecy? Again, we have via Word of God (George first mentioned it in the RotS extras, and JJ and Kathleen Kennedy reiterated it the summer before TFA was released) that the prophecy was fulfilled at Endor, when Anakin Skywalker threw off the mantle of Darth Vader and caused the death of Palpatine.

Kotor 2 with the restored co,tent mod that adds in actual relationships with your friends makes the great relationship stuff, with atton and visas actually becoming something other than cardboard characters,

Regardless of version kriea is just shit who decided in her sinility that she wanted to make her own suicide a homicide.

In other news, who else thinks the tirered stacks look on SSDs looks kinda dumb? The pointy shape is nice, but the stacks look kinda fat and bloated in my opinion. The avenger class or whatever sorta ruined the look for me...

Pretty much. Blame taoist/karmic/buddhist influences on Lucas.

The Light side is just as "destructive" and seductive. It is just imposing your ideals on other people and destroys the balance it lays with the darkside.

And George as "Word of God?" Laughable. He's slightly more credible than any Star Wars dweeb after selling out. If you want control over your vision, dont sell out your life's work to mega corporations. Creators have no control over how the message of their work is percieved anyway. They're usually the last ones you want to ask, because they are so lacking in an outside looking in perspective on their own work.

magic also allows you to do impossible things like turn invisible and throw fireballs

>The Light side is just as "destructive" and seductive

Destructive maybe, but only in specific circumstances. Seductive? Not at all. There's only been like two characters in all of Star Wars official media who felt a "call" to the light, yet the dark side is all about that temptation of power in the here and now.

The George quotes are from before he sold out. And yes, he is credible - he's the one who came up with it and let others play in his playground - but ultimately, he was the authority on the Force and what it means.

I agree that insiders shouldn't be telling people how to interpret their works - but George isn't doing that. He's stating a fact about a written-down prophecy in-universe and how that prophecy is fulfilled.

You don't need to be called to the light for it to be seductive. It's seductive because it's percieved as the right thing to do, but it often isn't. Palpatine corrupted the whole of the Jedi by trapping them in a catch-22. Go to war and save innocents against the darkside, or remain neutral and do nothing to help. Since the Empeor goaded them into the war, he caught them up in the imbalance he caused, weakening their vision. The actual right thing to do was to just let the Emperor hang himself by letting the prophecy finish, but instead the Jedi went to war and died for it.

So in the end both fell to the prophetically brought balance, it ended the Sith and Jedi. Whether George agrees or not is irrelevant, because it's right there in the story that both sides fell to their own temptations.

>So in the end both fell to the prophetically brought balance, it ended the Sith and Jedi.
That not true and you know it.

>When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be
>I am a Jedi, like my father before me
It's right there in the story that at least 1 Jedi exists in a universe with no more Sith. That he now questions what balance actually means and realizes that there is so much more to it doesn't somehow validate a whiny madman slaughtering fucking *children* in some fucked-up cosmic act of 'balance'.

>yfw people don't get the point of "Judge me by my size do you?" & "No different. Only different in your mind"

>That not true and you know it.

Of course it's true. Both the Sith and Jedi were wiped out. We have one "Jedi" who really has no connection to the Jedi of the past other than some light couching from Obi-Wan, who basically told him to kill his father which is wholly un-Jedi like, and from Yoda, who at that point was breaking away from the Jedi order way of things and evolving into hermit mode beliefs.

We'll see if Luke is the last Jedi or not in the next movie, and if Snoke actually considers himself a Sith or not. Until then we're all just guessing on the phrophey's lasting effects.

We already know that Snoke is not a Sith. The Knights of Ren are not Sith either, nor are the Acolytes of the Beyond from the new books.

They are all dark side traditions, but the Sith have their own knowledge, rituals, techniques, and traditions that set them apart from other dark side groups.

Check out something else than the god damn movies, you fucking normie.

You say that now, but I wouldn't be surprised if they sprung a "Surprise! We were totally Sith the whole time!" moment in the future. With the way TFA was just a carbon copy of A New Hope, I can totally see JJ complaining that they can't just waste the Sith as characters.

This sounds dangerously like semantics, but I guess not every dude that uses Force powers, a red lightsaber, wears black and is evil is a Sith.

What would happen if you took a Khyber crystal the size of a planet and condensed into a singularity the size of a marble and then let it power a light saber?

How strong would it be?