Is it realistic for there to be atheists in fantasy worlds where gods literally come down and fuck shit up regularly?

>Is it realistic for there to be atheists in fantasy worlds where gods literally come down and fuck shit up regularly?

Despite us having pictures of the earth from space, despite there having been people who have looked at the earth from space and from the moon- there are still people who unironically believe the world is flat.

So, yes.
It's completely within reason to have some people be atheists despite the contrary.

People believe vaccines cause autism, the world is flat, that the Holocaust never happened, and that there is a god.

Even if you saw Zeus at the supermarket every Thursday people wouldn't believe it.

Write it like this:

Atheism is the belief that divine power can come from inside humans rather than from gods. Bam. Atheist cleric.

No, but any setting where the gods just show up to random assholes and still tries to take itself seriously is shit. What's the point of faith when you can make a collect call for Jesus to see what his plans are this weekend?

This is the conclusion I came to when I asked myself what it meant for my Dark Souls character to have a high faith stat but no covenant.

Sort of. Only in a manner similar to Planescape where you know they exist, and are powerful but you aren't willing to acknowledge them as "Gods" just powerful

True dat- But honestly, abominably stupid people aren't much even for NPC, unless the game is comical.

> Literally everyone in the kingdom has an INT score of 1.5 somehow.
> The Lich became evil because everyone around drove him him mad with their absolute retardation.
> He just wants to usher in a new age of not being retarded.

Folks in this setting believe in gods despite contrary evidence, why not the other way?

Yes they are deniers and faithless and their fate is to rot on the wall once they die and never reach a proper afterlife..

I thought the wall got torn down?

Nope, some new god came in, made it ten feet taller.

>that the Holocaust never happened
There is absolutely zero real, scientific proof for the Holocaust.

A better term would be alatry rather than atheism to identify those who do not worship/venerate the gods but recognize they exist.

In all likelihood the position of atheism would be redefined to denying the assertions of the beings that call themselves gods and the status they claim that affords them rather than asserting they do not exist.

The Athar have it right. After all, anyone who visits the Astral can see oceans of dead "gods", so were they really gods or just cosmic faith leeches?

>3. Depending on exactly how the gods intervene in the world, one might go one's whole life without actually seeing any gods, so one might assume they're just the equivalent of an urban legend.

I feel like there'd probably be wandering priests, out proselytizing. If the gods can intervene, you'd probably have clerics etc walking between towns, spruking their god, doing minor spells (cure wounds etc) in return for a few coins or food or whatever, just advertising,

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html

People will believe whatever they need to.
Also, what if they were homeschooled and grew up far away from any god events?

Even so, that could be attributed to that man's personal power. Like a walking healing potion who tells you about how great his god is. You see this in a lot of subversive fantasy where the healers are actually using their religion for political power even if they are using healing magic for the good of some people.

>records of Jews claimed to have been imprisoned, many of which have already been proven to have been false like lampshades made of skin and holocosters and fatal masturbator machines and old men who claimed 'it was real in my mind'
>testimony from tortured prisoners
Where's the scientific evidence, user? Oh wait, it's illegal to investigate the holocaust in any country where there might be evidence.

Look, a fantasy atheist.

please take this back to /pol/ or /b/

People are atheists in our world where YHWH regularly comes down and fucks shit up regularly, so yeah

Show me proof that isn't eyewitness testimony or gotten from tortured PoWs. You can't.

Came here just to post this, glad that someone beat me to it.

...

The earth is flat dipshit. What do you think we fought the Civil War for?

>camps had crematoriums during one of the worst typhus outbreaks in history, while allies were bombing supply lines
Wow, I'm shocked.

>Camps had crematoriums that are capable of incinerating the entire population of said camp in a week.

Also? Worst typhus outbreaks in history? Get real. I suppose those gas-tight doors they ordered were also to contain the typhus? i.imgur.com/Ikvhwvf.png

And can you cite to ANYTHING suggesting that supply deliveries or other problems happened at Auschwitz because of Muh Allied bombing?

>Camps had crematoriums that are capable of incinerating the entire population of said camp in a week.
Not remotely possible.

I always thought that Deus Ex Machina is a crappy way to end a good story, but given the genre (and the fact that he wrote that one with Neil Gaiman), that might actually have been appropriate.

Considering Auscwitz was, in theory, supposed to be holding 30,000 inmates, and you have the Germans own documents saying they could do 4,756 people a day, I'm sure the arithmetic isn't too hard for you.

>the Germans own documents saying they could do 4,756 people a day
Which I'm sure are absolutely impossible to fake
That's disregarding how long it takes a MODERN crematorium to get rid of one body.
So where's the scientific evidence, user? Do you have any?

Blind Io always seemed to like tossing lightning bolts around.

It doesn't help matters that, when they realized they were going to lose, they destroyed as much evidence as they could, concerned that people might be a bit curious where all those people disappeared to. Also, can you guys please go back to /pol/? The only genocide we support around here is goblin. Bat-eared little fuckers.

Kobolds deserve it even more. Out of all the little low level trash races, those ones deserve it the most.

Kinda? It'd be a different form of atheism though, the sort which accepts the existence of these beings, but thinks they are simply very powerful dudes rather than capital g God, and that God himself doesn't exist.

>they destroyed all the evidence and that's the evidence

Find me scientific evidence the Great Pyramids exist at all. Find me scientific evidence that the founding fathers existed. Find me scientific evidence the world didn't start 5 minutes ago and all your memories are made up.

>Which I'm sure are absolutely impossible to fake
So, now you're just making shit up?

>That's disregarding how long it takes a MODERN crematorium to get rid of one body.
1875 crematoria could do it in 45 minutes. Could the Nazis do no better? ia902607.us.archive.org/11/items/cremationdead00eassgoog/cremationdead00eassgoog.pdf (Page 124-125). You can of course, accelerate the process by things like multiple burnings, as thicker bones like the skull and thighs take longer but are of a comparatively small volume. And of course, children take less time to incinerate than adults.

>So where's the scientific evidence, user? Do you have any?
Why are you asking scientific evidence for a historical event? What the hell are you even considering "scientific evidence"? You certainly haven't provided any evidence of any sort, just your own pathetic incredulity. I mean for fuck's sake, the Rwandans killed about a million Tutsi in 3 months. If the Germans went that fast, they could get your 6 million Jews in a year and a half, far less time than they were actually running those camps.

One of these things is not like the others

Except Deekin.

Is it the holocaust thing or the god thing?

>Why are you asking scientific evidence for a historical event?
Are you actually fucking asking that question?
>the Rwandans killed about a million Tutsi in 3 months.
So where are the 6 million bodies? You can find them right? Mass graves and shitloads of ash?
>Find me scientific evidence the Great Pyramids exist at all
Sure. There's multiple sources from thousands of years of history and you can even go and see them today.
>Find me scientific evidence that the founding fathers existed.
Sure. Again there are multiple sources.
>Find me scientific evidence the world didn't start 5 minutes ago and all your memories are made up.
I can't. And if that is true, that doesn't make the Holocaust true. In fact, it means the opposite.

I didn't say ALL the evidence, loli girls. Folks admitted as much at Nuremburg, not that that matters any to you. Any evidence contrary to your belief is considered to be planted by (((them))), so your position is impossible to disprove. Like the guys who claim that Dinosaur fossils were planted by Jesus, to test our faith.

Doubly so for Deekin, because it's his fault the little rats are so fucking prevalent now.

>thread is on a subject that people with no gaming experience think they can speak on
>gets invaded by newfags from /pol/
Every time. Great work mods.

>Are you actually fucking asking that question?
Yes, I am. Given that scientific evidence is garnered from experiments, and you can't exactly go out and re-create events that happened decades ago, I'm not sure what the hell you're even asking. It's like asking what color is Beethoven's 7th symphony.
>So where are the 6 million bodies? You can find them right? Mass graves and shitloads of ash?
We can. In fact, that link I sent back upthread contains locations of mass graves, not that you read it.

>Folks admitted as much at Nuremburg
After they were tortured, yeah. Is tortured testimony now seen as fact when even eyewitness testimony in your average murder trial isn't accepted as absolute proof?

I'm only pretending to be a racist

Holocaust

Jury is out on the existence of God.

Deekin was the best character in NWN.

>Given that scientific evidence is garnered from experiments
Show me the experiments then. Show me the scientific evidence. YOU CAN'T BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING ILLEGAL TO INVESTIGATE THE HOLOCAUST IN ANY RELEVANT COUNTRIES YOU FUCKING FAGGOT.

All it takes is one dragon who's peeved you killed the help, or is actually honorbound to protect them, and BOOM! All of your crops are burned.

Out of a list that includes bland generic barbarian, bland generic cockney thief, bland generic cleric, bland generic power mad sorcerer... not much competition! Kill him and undo the plague of kobold bullshit that infests D&D anymore!
Kill them too! If a dragon shows it's ugly mug all it's doing is telling adventurers "hey, loot here!"

When in doubt, do as Granny Weatherwax does. Don't encourage the buggers.

Sure,

>Zeus is just an overgrown air elemental
>Odin is simply a wizard with good PR
>Osiris is clearly the product of advanced necromancy

Worlds in which magic is real can offer alternative magical explanations for miracles and gods.

To confuse the molemen, duh.

Doubly so when the gods themselves can be killed.

Nah, I'm just here to laugh at you. Fuck back off to /pol/ now, the grownups are talking about people as dumb as you are in fantasy games.

>can't show actual, scientific proof
>lmao laughing at you
>obviously it's true because my superiors say it is :^)

>my sources count but yours don't
i guess that's what i get for being baited by /pol/

Uh huh. Congrats, you win the argument. Now go to bed.

They do have the whole Portfolio things going, though. They're tied to whatever their domain is on a fundamental level.

That's not solving much, the crops are burned! Killed or not, the damage has been done. In Beowulf, even though he killed the dragon, his kingdom still fell, because it burned the crops and left the people weak, and they were conquered. By Swedes, I think.

I agree. This isn't the place for that bullshit. Here, when we talk about race, it's usually why people hate elves, or why gnomes are useless. Get out, or go to a Warhammer thread, where everyone is a space nazi anyway.

W-what about pre-4e tieflings?

Meh. Kind of boring, right? At least Aasimar got some good buffs, and make good Paladins. Tieflings weren't even the best choice for rogue, or Warlock, and you'd think they would be made for Warlock, literally.

Pre-4e, of course. Post 4e is a completely different matter.

I'm not sure true atheism would be a thing, but antitheism definitely would

FUCK THOSE FAGGOTS THEY BUILT A BROKEN WORLD I MEAN GODDAMN LOOK AT IT

2e tieflings are the greatest. 3e tieflings are already on the path to boring, generic, lame demons-but-totally-playable-guys! shit, and 4e was a travesty in every way, tieflings just being one of the ways it fucked everything up.

Easy enough, use the mulched kobolds and dragons to grow super crops! Have a druid or priest cast Plant Growth, starvation: SOLVED.

>Show me the experiments then.
What experiments? You can't make a scientific experiment for ANY historic event you retard. What, are we going to re-create the English civil war to see if the Roundheads REALLY won the way they say they did? The very concept is non-applicable.

> YOU CAN'T BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING ILLEGAL TO INVESTIGATE THE HOLOCAUST IN ANY RELEVANT COUNTRIES YOU FUCKING FAGGOT.
Which is why guys like Chris Browning, Robert Van Pelt, Peter Longerreich, and Richard Evans are all in prison? Oh wait, they're not? Whaddaya know, it looks like you can investigate the Holocaust and nobody gives a damn as long as you're actually subscribing to good academic historical discipline.

Druids: We're kind of broken! Not as explosive as Wizards, but we get to change shape, make it rain, call lightning, and grow weed.

Psst: Nothing you say will ever convince him. You can't have an argument with someone who isn't willing to have their mind changed by facts. All you're doing is helping him convert a potentially good thread to /pol/shit.

>They're tied to whatever their domain is on a fundamental level.

Are they really tied on a "fundamental" level? How can you be sure that link isn't something artificial and temporary. The domains may simply be metaphysical resource certain beings have learned to tap. Thus the being claiming to be the "God of Death" would more accurately be described as "some guy who learned to draw power from Death." That's exploitation, not divinity.

It's also pretty clear that on a lot of planes, the gods draw power from faith as well. That makes them faith leeches, occasionally giving some power feedback but clearly not as much as is coming in. I say, purge the parasites!

I don't think a purge is necessary, merely a renegotiation. Mechanism need to be put in place to ensure Faith Based Entities provide an adequate return on investment for their faith providers, and that they follow through on the promises of beneficence (protection, rain, an afterlife, etc.) which have been used to secure their faith supply.

No god is too big to fail! No more bailouts!

>I do not deny their existence, their extreme power, nor their ability to grant powers to those who sublimate themselves, but it was they who told us they were "Divine." A shepherd may appear as a god to his flock, but that does not make the shepherd a god, merely a much stronger being than his sheep. Are we to take it then that every being of sufficient power relative to us is a "god?" They are powerful, and some worthy of gratitude for their good works, but evidence of divinity, save divinity as retroactively defined by them, has not been given.

You have a point.

Sure. Folks who think they're not gods, they're just powerful things. If they were really gods, we wouldn't be able to understand them and they would annihilate reality by coming into contact with it. Easy.

Hi, welcome to Veeky Forums. We like talking about games. Now get the fuck out. There's a containment board especially for you.

Atheists in such settings usually believe the gods are charlatans. The Gods are just strong entities cultivating a mystique and myths around themselves. Their importance is lauded mostly by themselves.

Or they may believe that Gods are just manifestations created and empowered by the ritual worship of mortals. Basically gods are just very large spells.

Also an atheist just wouldn't trust that the gods weren't part of [creation event].

Do you take the gods at their word user?

Again, the Athar. The Athar do believe there IS a cosmic power out there with a grand design, just that the so-called "gods" are sure as hell not IT. Wish that more Planescape stuff was still around, but they fucked it up even by the end of 2e with the retarded faction war/new faction bullshit.

You can believe Gods are real when there is direct evidence that proves it
But that doesn't mean you have to believe in the Gods

So... what if I pull this on my campaign as DM?

>Player hands a sheet with the atheist word written in the alignment space.
>"Are you sure about this?"... "Are you aware Gods and Goddess literally have come down to earth to hand quests, answer prayers, and so on?"... "Ok, whatever"...
>Game session goes as normal.
>Atheist player goes on a rambling about his character not believing in Gods because...
>"Yeah, yeah, whatever, a bolt comes crashing down and strikes you in the head. You lose half of your current HP and fall unconscious for the next 2 hours"... "user, there are settings where worshipping some entity leads to you being flayed alive, you got out easy"...

Based on actual events
Who was in the wrong here

True, there is that possibility. On the other hand, it might be less exploitation and more something mutual. If there isn't a God of Death, then the process of death doesn't function properly - people can't pass on, or go to the wrong afterlife, or something. So God is a job and title just like King - and like a King, you might not like the one in charge, but they definitely exist.

yeah it's best to ignore these people

I would say you were in the wrong, solely because Fairy Tail is trash

I just ate a coconut cake watching a manogoworm extraction, and I still think that is a fucked up image.

Mango worm extractions are oddly satisfying to watch.

Pretty realistic, I would say. Hell, we have people irl that believe some WAY out there bullshit, despite clear evidence to the contrary. If you don't believe me, then take a few minutes to look at /x/. I'm sure there's at least one thread up right now with crazies talking about how the earth is flat and NASA is a giant coverup corp. You'll also find people who legitimately believe they are some kind of 'otherkin', some who believe in tulpas (imaginary friends that become real by believing in them hard enough), the list goes on.

So yeah, it's perfectly realistic for someone to be an atheist, even if a god shows up personally to prove them otherwise. Hell, I'll even give you the simplest reasoning a character like that would likely use.

>It's magic/a wizard did it

Even if a god DID show up to personally demonstrate their existence, they could respond

>Miracles? That doesn't prove anything. There's plenty of powerful wizards and sorcerers. I'm not going to believe you're a "GOD" just because you know some powerful magic. Ol' Archmage "Collateral Carl" the next kingdom over can create and destroy entire planes of existence, but you don't hear him going around claiming to be a god. Get over yourself.

>Even if you saw Zeus at the supermarket every Thursday people wouldn't believe it.
I sure as hell wouldn't believe that either. A strip club, bar, or whore house would be much likelier places to run into Zeus on a regular basis than the supermarket, come on.