I apologize if this is in the wrong board, but I'm an inexperienced Veeky Forums user and was unsure of where this question should go. That said...
First, the backstory: I was shopping at my local Rite today and I overheard the cashier talking to his supervisor about Destiny, particularly about the Hive, how powerful they are, how OP Oryx is, and so on. I generally don't pay much attention when I'm there because this kid has Asperger's Syndrome and thus is completely incapable of not talking for even five seconds. What cought my attention this time was when he made the following claim:
"So yeah, I'm pretty sure the Hive could EASILY defeat everybody in Warhammer 40K."
His supervisor is actually a pretty cool chick who I don't know personally but have often seen in the local hobby scene, and proceeded to counter every one of his claims (at one point mentioning that a Hive invasion sounds like a pretty basic Chaos Daemon incursion, which every single faction has faced before numerous times). But no matter what she said, he always replied with something like "nope, the Hive is too numerous", "no, Oryx could just Take them", etc. At one point, he admitted that he didn't actually know anything about Warhammer 40K at all, and what little he did know came from an outdated rulebook for the tabletop game he'd read at a bookstore once while waiting for a bus, but still refused to believe that any of the factions could possibly stand even the slightest chance against the Hive.
So now, out of curiousity, I posit the question to you, my fellow anons. What do you think? How do you think the Hive would fare against the factions of 40K (whether 1v1 or free-for-all)?
See, the first problem is that Destiny is a video game. So it has a lot of game fiats like being able to kill Oryx with sniper rifles and rocket launchers.
The other thing is that these universes work on entirely different cosmology. Transplanting one into the other breaks the entire setting because the underlying rules are different.
I will say this though, as the lore is stated in the Book of Sorrows, without having Light to defeat his Darkness based powers, there is literally nothing in 40k that could kill him. He is paracausal. He could assfuck time if he wanted. He actually does do that. Similarly, the Vex would destroy the entire 40k universe instantly because without the Light or Dark telling their time travel shenanigans to go fuck themselves they would just go back to the beginning of time and be everywhere.
Jaxon Hill
Of course, thinking about it, that cosmology mis-mash works both ways. Does Oryx have a 40k soul or presence in the warp? Could he just be instantly possessed?
You can't just go jamming universes together like this. It just doesn't work.
Both have their own versions of crazy space magic.
Destiny has Light and Darkness
40k has The Warp
There's no way to tell how they would interact with each other.
Hunter Russell
>could Oryx be instantly possessed no. you would have to break into his Throne world, which the vex only did because Ir Anuk and Ir Halak ruse Crota into cutting a portal into the vex network with his sword, challenge Oryx in the ways of the Hive, which he made up and perfected over millions of year (probably before demons were a thing. were talking pre-war in heaven levels of time here) and beat him. that's assuming that there is a Demon strong enough to do it.
which I doubt.
you would need one of the Gods to step in personally, and even then, it would be a close match
Cameron Perry
>you would need one of the Gods to step in personally, and even then, it would be a close match
Yet 6 armored zombies killed Oryx with bullets.
Leo Rivera
ah, but they were empowered by the antithesis of the Darkness, along with challenging him in the only way that he could be defeated. only guardians could have beat him in, only in his ascendant realm, and only in the ways of the hive
Owen Stewart
Well, at the same time the Guardians also fucked up the Sword Logic by introducing Light. Light isn't supposed to be anywhere near the Sword Logic or the Ascendant Realms. That means they were able to kill Oryx and not take his place.
Julian Scott
no no, the Light was there. that was the blighted light that you had to blow up. it's like wine that your family has carefully cultivated for a generation, that would have been the sweetest and most wonderful thing that you could make, than some asshole comes along and makes a Molotov cocktail out of it and use it to burn your house down. the hive steal and horde light, kept it and aged it in weird ways to make it taste better, but his also made it unstable. that's why you blow up the light, because it is so potent that when it blows up, it is a paracasual super nuke to the face
Cooper Cook
Six paracasual space zombies, I'll have you know
Ethan Sanchez
>paracasual Did you mean "paracausal"?
Because with paracasual I'm imaging a casual take on paramilitary.
Like the Grimoire entry about the Cabal talking about dancing Guardians.
Mars was the Cabal's Vietnam if the cards are anything to go by
Caleb Martinez
To be honest, either work quite well.
Your typo just gave me a hilarious mental image.
Carson Gutierrez
storytime is the best time.
Logan Lopez
all I'm getting from this is that the imperium needs to through a few grey knights at it and it will get taken care of.
James Peterson
throw*
Charles Wilson
>So it has a lot of game fiats like being able to kill Oryx with sniper rifles and rocket launchers Granted, it takes less than that to kill Daemons in 40K.
>implying that a squad of Grey Knights couldn't be Taken >implying that the Warp is the antithesis to the Darkness >implying that they can even make it into the ascendant plane without killing an ascendant soul, which the guardians only got after killing crota and storing a part of his soul in a specially prepared crystal made by a tainted Guardian >implying that they could even get near the dreadnaught before getting Gibbed by it >implying implications
this is why rasputin left us out to dry when Gaul showed up
Benjamin Perez
grey knights are backed by The God Emperor, most of your argument is kinda invalidated
Julian Campbell
クリスタル?エルダーの?
Brayden Morgan
As has been stated, 40k and Destiny are in equal bullshit levels, and their cosmology are not compatible. There is really no way to reconcile this. In the end, what we can say is Chaos and The Hive throw shit at each other endlessly, neither able to really overcome the other.
Cameron Peterson
>implying that the Warp is the antithesis to the Darkness
So you'd want Sisters of Battle? Who have a very strong Light theme and in some cases (Hello Celestine/The old 2e Special Character SOB) can literally call down cleansing light with the force of an orbital bombardment?
Luke Barnes
>implying that the warp, which is what the emperor uses, and what the grey knights are all trained in using, is antithesis to the Darkness >implying that oryx isn't backed up by the Darkness, rendering your argument kinda invalidated
round and round we go
i would say that eventually Oryx starts taking demons and starts using Sword Logic on the Warp, since that is their modus operandi, and either starts permanently killing demons and warp creatures, or starts taking them
Charles Lewis
So, what could be transplanted successfully from Destiny to 40k? The Vex are a no go because their time travel ridiculousness is only defeated by the fact that the Light and the Dark break fate. The Cabal are just fat, slow space marines so that's boring. The Fallen might be cool, but there's only a couple hundred thousand of them.
SIVA might be interesting, especially given it's apparently capable of subverting magical stuff.
Lincoln Stewart
nah man, what the sisters use are powered by their faith which affects the warp, allowing for them to tap into the collective will and belief and latent psyker power that humans pump out and have been shaped warp that humans have made over the past 100k+ years
what the sister use are just a more refined and focused version of the Waaagh
SIVA is your best bet. make it a DAoT STC, have it accidentally unleashed onto a hive world, and you have Iron Lords holocaust 2: electric boogaloo
Ian Barnes
>what the sister use are just a more refined and focused version of the Waaagh
It does, however, have a very strong history of being really good against things of darkness.
Owen Baker
That's lower case d darkness. Upper case D Darkness is an entirely different beast.
But again, this is one of those situations where the cosmologies just don't match up. Kinda point to Destiny though, because it states that if you aren't part of the Light/Dark dichotomy you can't beat either whereas you can theoretically kill the Warp without Warp powers.
Anthony James
no, it is extremely good at killing demons and warp beings, a much smaller and remote version of what the emperor does by his mere presence.
the sisters tap into the faith of humanity in the emperor, who humans all believe that the emperor can kill demons just by being near them, which he can. this magnifies that ability, which the sisters can occasionally call upon if they all pray really hard enough
Dylan Bailey
I mean, what could SIVA infect and what couldn't it? It operates at an atomic level apparently, so even the Tyranids might be fucked up by it.
Julian Hall
>no, it is extremely good at killing demons and warp beings
Actually, in Hammer and Anvil it also negated necron mind control. SOB faith powers are kinda weird even in-universe.
Julian Rivera
>theoretically kill the Warp without Warp powers >kill the Warp
user, you could have just said you know nothing about the 40k setting and saved us all a some time.
Adam Peterson
Cadian pylons nigga. The C'tan almost sealed the warp out of reality.
Unless that got retconned recently.
Robert Lewis
>Kinda point to Destiny though, because it states that if you aren't part of the Light/Dark dichotomy you can't beat either
Mind you, the Warp's entire thing is 'Fuck the rules of how you think reality works' so that's...iffy. Yay crossover bullshit.
Leo Jenkins
so far, everything looks like it can be infected by SIVA. the Iron Lord armor, which still had vestiges of light in it, was puppeted by SIVA and took it over and used it to try and kill us
im sorry, what?
i mean, i guess it could. you believe that no human should be controlled by xenos and humans are the dominant species, which is another belief that the emperor has which is magnified by humanity.
i guess that might work
no no, the warp has a structure. it has it's own chaotic order and guideline. it just also exists over top of normal reality. it does tend to overwrite real space laws, but real space can assert itself over the warp if it manifests. see Blanks, Necron pylons and all anti-warp tech
Chase Moore
The Cabal and the Fallen. The Vex are basically the Necrons already. Hive can be transplanted as a wierd warp using xenos race or some new fuckery that somehow dodged the warp and it's corruption via whatever the fuck makes the Hive work.
Robert Price
>you believe that no human should be controlled by xenos and humans are the dominant species, which is another belief that the emperor has which is magnified by humanity. >i guess that might work
SoB powers confirmed to literally be HFY faggotry weaponized.
I'm honestly pretty hype about that
Levi Turner
Which team wins?
Vex/Crons Hive/Nids Cabal/Orks Fallen/Eldar
Elijah Reyes
>im sorry, what?
A necron had been working on implanting humans with necrodermis, having it take over their body and mind and controlling them.
A Sister of Battle managed to have her faith shatter the control and go rogue. Which left him with a temple assassin tier opponent making hit and run attacks that his own defences were recognising as part of his forces and thus not stopping.
She's like 90% of the reason the SOB actually win in the book. A human who can understand necron tech and navigate the dimensional fuckery inside necron facilities.
Really wish she'd survived the story. Would have been a very cool TT character.
Asher Ortiz
>no no, the warp has a structure. it has it's own chaotic order and guideline. it just also exists over top of normal reality. it does tend to overwrite real space laws, but real space can assert itself over the warp if it manifests. see Blanks, Necron pylons and all anti-warp tech
Oh, I was mostly disputing the whole 'Not Dark/Light so can't take part' thing. As the Warp does add a third factor that makes it a bit more iffy if they are the only options.
I'd lean towards 'Warp is a third option' just because it makes any hypothetical conflict INTERESTING rather than being complete non-interaction and this is an area 100% up to a writer of the crossover.
Levi Cox
are you telling me that you thought it wasn't? i though it was just obvious that their powers are just the latent power of humanity like the orks
Connor White
Uh, Vex + Crons seems unstoppable. They could probably just go back to the beginning of time and just shoot the first infant old one. Preventing at least two of the other races from ever even existing.
Thomas Nguyen
Add Guardians/Imperium to this. The Fallen and Eldar alliance doesn't stand a chance. Not enough is known about the strength of the Cabal's main force to get a solid idea on how they would perform, although the fact that they take down the tower in destiny 2 makes them look better than the Hive and Vex.
Jose Foster
>hive and nids >working together >laughingthrall.bookofsorrow
>cabal and orks >working together >implying that it wouldn't be cabal and Tau in a war in their little section of space, ending in either one or the other taking them into their empire
really though, in a slug fest, i'd put cabal ahead over tau in a full on war
Easton Fisher
The Vex instantly defeat any conventional force, but fall apart as soon as any sort of non-quantifiable Magic is introduced.
Kayden Johnson
The Cabal would be an interesting addition to 40k mainly because they are madmen who would send scouting fleets into the Warp or straight into the path of Leviathan.
Isaac Jenkins
>the fact that they take down the tower in destiny 2 makes them look better than the Hive and Vex.
The Cabal force you encounter in Destiny is just a scouting deployment
Though I expect the Cabal are able to do it simply because they don't rely on light/darkness bullshittery like every other faction. Just gun.
Dylan Allen
So basically it goes Vex using timetravel>Everyone else>Regular Vex>Tau?
Adam Brooks
>hey Primus >yeah Val >how many psions does it take to find a lictor in a forest at night? >i don't know. call up the flayers and lets find out
Ayden Sanders
Pretty much. Once you remove their capacity to write themselves into, and others out of, history they become just a bunch of robots with laser guns. At least for the most part.
Leo Evans
Well the Cabal is the Imperium on crack, or essentially, great crusade era Imperium. They have Imperial Guard sized vast armies, and all of them are space marine or at least gene-warrior tier.
Evan Green
but their really cool fucking laser guns that teleport right from a sun into your skull
Blake Morgan
ANY CROSSOVER ALSO NECESSITATES CROSSING OVER THE TRAVELLER
EXCEPT ONLY DAOT ERA HUMANITY WOULD NOT JUST SHOOT THE TRAVELLER DOWN INSTANTLY
I WOULD SUSPECT THE TRAVELLER IS THE ACTUAL MACHINE GOD THE ADMECH ARE WORSHIPPING IN THE BOWELS OF MARS (VOID DRAGON FAGS GET OUT REE)
ERGO, HUMANITY HAS 'THE LIGHT' PROTECTING IT FROM VEX AND HIVE BULLSHITTERY. OR AT LEAST THE ADMECH DOES. EVERYONE ELSE IS PRETTY FUCKED.
Kayden Reed
And they're not held back by any dogma against doing research or creating new stuff. So they constantly try to design new weapons and tactics to defeat new enemies.
Chase Smith
>Machine spirits get taught in the ways of the light by the Guardians >Warlord Titans can now use Ward of Dawn, Hammer of Sol and Fist of Havoc
How fucked is Chaos?
Jordan Miller
Honestly, given what we've learned about the emperor in the HH stuff and what we know about the origins of the Hive in the Book of Sorrows, I find it way more likely that 40k humanity becomes a race of Darkness worshippers with the Emperor becoming their version of Oryx.
I really just don't see him or any of the Primarchs listening to the Leviathan.
Joshua Russell
The ending of the Age of Apostasy feels like it could be a very good place for humanity to discover stuff about the Light. What with all that 'Keep the exact details of what was said hush hush even from the High Lords'
Sebastian Morgan
>mars spent the entirety of the post iron man period between the long night and the emperor contacting them talking with the traveler and figuring out how SIVA works >all the stuff that the AdMech uses is all SIVA >they set space on fire with SIVA >that is why Red and Black is the colors of the AdMech
>mfw a scout titan uses a golden gun to one shot a bio-titan >mfw a Imperial Knight with Solar Wings leading a charge against oorks
Daniel Lewis
Destiny, AKA: how dumbing down your product for the masses can ruin even the greatest of fucking ideas
OR
How I learned to live with broken promises and shattered dreams: The Game
Carter Nguyen
As it is, I'm decently happy with the finished game. I just wish it had come out three years ago instead of last September.
Landon Morris
Yeah. Good I played warframe instead.
Jack Williams
Now we get to do it all over again with Destiny 2.
LONG DEAD ALIVE AGAIN LONG DEAD ALIVE AGAIN LONG DEAD ALIVE AGAIN
Justin King
Warframe has had the opposite evolution. It started promising, but they've made it into a grind fest with no idea of what kind of game it actually wants to be. Also the lore has gotten progressively worse instead of better.
Matthew Wright
Grind fest? I played it in the past, now days isn't nowhere as bad as it used to be.
Julian Cooper
Tzeentch goes just as planned and eventually wins.
Kevin Sullivan
Ah, so we just get the Necrons/C'Tan to invent something to to counter the Darkness. Since they generally don't care about folks saying you "can't" do something. Heck, their Gauss weapons are probably enough as is since what they're killing is just a large creature.
Austin Cooper
Don't even need to invent something they can just lock all it's followers in pokeballs and put them next to the C'tan in long term storage.
Isaiah Watson
>The God Emperor Oryx is a God-Emperor too, and he loves to Take shit. He already killed and ate one god, what's an ascended human compared to the Worm Gods?
Easton Diaz
>The Cabal are just fat, slow space marines Cabal are way tougher than Space Marines. They're fighting Vex on Mars and winning.
Brayden Bailey
"Behold, the newest addition to my collection: the Wizard From the Moon!"
Brayden Taylor
Fallen are closer to orks than Cabal. Did you not see their Raid Zamboni?
Camden Miller
Consider that he got his shit pushed by what's effectively six high-ranking Inquisitorial agents.
Gabriel Parker
Everyone's arguing over Destiny v. 40k (seriously why though?) And I'm juat sitting here waiting for someone to complete the fucking set.
Gabriel Hill
>by what's effectively six high-ranking Inquisitorial agents I didn't realize that Inquisitoral Agents when reanimated shards of a reality-rewriting God-Machine that may very well predate the current reality and be Durandal
Andrew Nelson
>EXCEPT ONLY DAOT ERA HUMANITY WOULD NOT JUST SHOOT THE TRAVELLER DOWN INSTANTLY Except the Traveler would just fucking leave without a Rasputin to pin it in place
Jaxson Wilson
>These lameass robots that attack in waves are actually like Time Lord level, guys!
Why isn't any of this shit in the actual game?
Easton Sanchez
>dat image Nice taste boyo
Oliver Ross
>no really he's am unstoppable unbeatable demonic god-prince! >gets killed by a goblin with a shiv Why isn't any of the ridiculous 40K lore represented in the tabletop?
I like how the OP in that second thread keeps adding handicaps to try to give Destiny the advantage.
Sebastian Evans
Grots can't kill daemon princes though. T6 can't be wounded by S2
Jack Miller
Just give him some killy juice, then.
Cooper Wilson
You guys do realize Guardians are basically Ctan Shards, right?
Mason Ortiz
Activision.
Jace Myers
Second user has it right.
I'm fucking sick of people inflating 40k. Everytime one of these debates comes up you have someone saying "GODS IN OTHER SETTINGS ARE LOW RANKING IN 40K" or something along those lines. Not only does it get tiring as well as being wrong it also removes the sense that 40k is a universe where humans are forced to fight in a shithole universe.
Logan Rogers
I don't understand how can anyone treat Destiny's power levels seriously, absolutely nobody on the dev team cares about the lore and story. You will kill yet another anime invincible, indestructible Dark Lord the destroyer of quadrillion of universes with your space masheen gun, and yet another one will pop up month later and you will kill him without any effort too.
Parker Fisher
>You will kill yet another anime invincible, indestructible Dark Lord the destroyer of quadrillion of universes with your space masheen gun, and yet another one will pop up month later and you will kill him without any effort too. But enough about 40K, how do you feel about Destiny?
