/HHG/ The Horus Heresy General

>BA tactical marine punches a castellax as hard as a krak grenade.

perfect legion reporting

>Ywn have canonic half-swording or murder strokes
Will power maces become relevant in the future? Especially for Chaplains.

>tfw your legion is shit and you don't even pretend anymore

It's kind of liberating accepting the fact that you're nothing more than a silly Saturday morning cartoon villain.

Kek like that chaplain whispering at the Warmaster's ear?

>studs
>right shoulder
:^)

What's on your tables tonight Anons? Long weekend just smashed out 2x Armageddon terrain sets, couple of games of 30k and base coats done on this rape train.

Would it be still competitive to play Mechanicum without using any Automatas?

reductor is your friend, especially with the release of secutarii
i have a 3k list with only 2 automata in it, which are vultarax to handle my AA needs

Oh yes, easily. Ordo Reductor does very well without a single one, and they get other toys instead in the form of a whole bunch of excellent and sexy tanks. Also makes the usual anti-Mechanicum weapons pretty useless against you, since you don't have a giant pile of vulnerable Monstrous Creatures around and that 400pt unit of plasma guns has to shoot some random Thallax or take their chances with AV13 Vindicators and Medusae.

Could the Emperor (Lord and Master of Mankind) create a primarch so powerful that even He in all His glory couldn't defeat him?

I'd pay money to see daemon Angron take on daddy, the whole Khornate immunity to psychic powers would even it out somewhat and it'd be down to a physical fight.

I'm not saying he'd win necessarily but it'd be a good fight.

I died on Istvaan 3; if it was my call I would have fed that slithery fucker into a pit of genstealers to show him to true meaning of rape

Tangential note, what is the consensus on the Armoured Breakthrough RoW? If I run it do I deserve to be chainsawed in the dick?

Sanguinius apparently had a chance of taking on Demon Horus if he wasn't injured and tired after fighting for three days straight.

If Sang had gone full chaos instead of Horus, it might have happened.

I mean Horus was never the strongest Primarch; had it been Angron or Sanguinius we could have seen a SERIOUS challenge to the Emperor if the gods flooded the carrier with more energy than they did Horus, but I don't believe anyone could be on the same level as him.

The Emperor was presumably born a human, and became a living avatar of energy when an untold number of shamans sacrificed their life force and energies to create his vessel out of pure love and drive for humankind; I don't think the Emperor could create something stronger than him in a lab when the best of humanity struggled to make a near-god with pureness made manifest.

Can agree; despite differing sources Horus got to where he did through general levels of skill but most importantly the dude knew how to get people to join his side; think Commander Shepard and Patton blended together. Angron or Sangy could beat his ass in a physical fight, but Horus could meld together people that would normally hate each other into an effective fighting force. That was his schtick; E money is straight up maxed across the board in everything but humility due to being alive for...what, 50k years by the Great Crusade?

It is more fun for the opponent if you aren't taking 100% tanks. The Predators you get as troops are hardly cheesy, it's just that you're more likely to get a bad matchup where it's obviously going to be a blowout in either direction. So take some dudes in transports or on bikes. Reduce the paper-scissors-rock effect.

Exactly. Wanting to guide humanity probably becomes beyond lifes-work at some point past the first couple hundred years. I don't think any one of us could fathom his true thoughts besides what he voiced, and the thousands of reasons behind each measured word.

Probably explains the poor fathering he did for the primarchs. Part of our humanity is defined by our relatively brief periods of being alive, which gives regular humans a certain perspective of reality. For E money he has potentially lived 850-1200 normal human lifetimes, had kids in some of them, others he got distracted and oops! There goes another lifetime. I wouldnt want to watch everyone I love grow old and die every time I tried to connect with people either

Considering it as an alternative list when my SoH grows large enough; would be armour with mech infantry as the bulk of the list.

Always happy to oblige user, it was too good of an image to remain un-prettied.

Ok, so this isn't the most balanced list, but it's everything I currently have painted for a 2250 game.

Any wargear or anything I should change? I can always use my Ixion Hale mdoel as Valdor if needed; so that's an option.

HQ: Legio Custodes Tribune w/ Praesidium Shield, Cyber-Familiar, Melta Bombs, Arae Shrikes, Digital Weapons, and Paragon Spear 277pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Custodian Guard Squad of 5 w/ a Magisterium Vexilla/Sentinel WarBlade and Melta Bombs 310pt

Transport: Legio Custodes Coronus Grav Carrier w/ Extra Armor 140pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Custodian Guard Squad of 6 w/ a Pyrithite Spear and Melta Bombs 375pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Sentinel Guard Squad of 5 w/ a Magisterium Vexilla and Solerite Power Gauntlet 325pt

Transport: Legio Custodes Coronus Grav Carrier w/ Extra Armor 140pt

Heavy Support: Legio Custodes Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought 250pt

Heavy Support: Legio Custodes Caladius Grav Tank w/ Twin-Linked Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon and Extra Armor 215pt

Heavy Support: Legio Custodes Caladius Grav Tank w/ Twin-Linked Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon and Extra Armor 215pt

Total = 2247 points

Does anyone run Solar Auxilia here? If so are you looking for Leman Russ tanks? I have 5 of the things from my Guard days, looking to either sell or trade them for LA equipment

How does Taghmata fare compared to other 2 wings? I've seen a lot of Cybers and some Reductors but Taghmata seems rare for some reason.

Ok, how does LoW's 25% rule fit into Reductor's 2 LoW slots?

A) LoW 1+LoW 2 < 25%
B) LoW 1 < 25%, LoW 2 < 25%

wants to take valdor, also takes shield + cyber, wonders why people hate playing this bullshit

Have you considered that people dump Primarchs at over 2000 points and Custodes literally have no way to properly fight it without that?

I'm not saying it's right, but try to not shit on him for something so innocuous.

Good point but like 99% of that list is hard as balls you know like the whole fucking custodes options, don't really feel any pity for someone taking grey knights for 30k. Inferno was a mistake, talons should have just been simple allies or 0-2 choices for some lists. Entire 2-3k armies of the elitist of the elite just leaves a bad taste in most peoples mouths

I feel this, but Grey Knights struggle against most armies as is, the 30k option is nice to have but they're even more expensive and hard to work with than most.

Dude will always be outnumbered and still need to think 10 steps ahead of every player he meets.

I am a firm believer that Custodes are terribly strong, but they have some pretty severe weaknesses too.

I believe the rule implies that the LoW points total may not take up more than 25% of the army's total cost, no matter what is composing the slots, in entirety. This is also what I believe will be the best choice for not wanting to have your opponent bludgeon you to death over rules lawyering for being an asshat.

All you faggots talking down the Emperor have forgotten that he was an immense and power being of perpetualness BEFORE he got Chaos power ups at Molech.
Empz is all, empz is life.

>empz is life.
LoW is not a slot you nab, read the rules, it's a detachment. 25% is total of army list.

How to 'get the charge' with EC? HALP with tactics and stuff

Lnad Raiders Phobos, Spartan, Dreadclaws, Storm Eagles, Hell, a fucking Whalebird if you want; either that or make sure they can charge via pinning, (Kakophoni can help, some psychic bullshit) tie up units with lucid blade praetor+Pheonix termies for trolliest troll to ever troll, chaff units, etc etc etc. Look at what the army lets you play with and start forming a set of strategy and tactics to go together.

None of the sort friendo, Im saying that beyond the awesome power invested in E money, he still has his flaws; it keeps him grounded and understandable as a character

LAAODAL says it's 25% per choice.

Then why would you ask us?

>So weak that he couldn't destroy a single daemon of Chaos Undivided
>He shoves it inside one of his bodyguard and runs closing the door behind him

And people motherfucking think that the Emperor can take on Horus in the final book.

I didn't ask shit, I corrected your statement.

I am just going to post this here without comment.

The first demon of fucking murder is literally a god incarnate. It's by the very definition of undestroyable because it will never die until all of human life does.

But nothing is canon that I don't like.

ADB was a mistake

Seriously, ADB for the Emperor-centered book? What were they thinking?

9/10 chance that ADB is going write the final battle between the Emperor and Horus. Better show some respect, son.

Nah, ADB said the finale will be Dan Abnett's.

Nobody decides but GW and Dan would be dead by then. ADB is still a young man.

Maybe, but Abnett's plotlines will perpetually haunt the horus heresy novel series.

>punches
Specifically says they need a melee type weapon. So a BA tactical marine KNIFES a castellax as hard as a krak grenade.

What is a power fist?

If you have a pistol, it counts as a CCW in close combat. So you're pistol whipping them.

Something that hits significantly harder than a krak grenade and therefore isn't what we were talking about?
>If you have a pistol, it counts as a CCW in close combat.
Technically yes, but then the entire first bit of Encarmine Fury is pointless. Everything has a pistol, so the distinction that they HAVE to be using a Melee type weapon means absolutely nothing. I would rule they need to buy or have an actual CCW.

>FW can't read the rules
>more news at 11

To restate my original point, the idea of a bunch of blood angels pistol-whipping everything is fucking stupid unless they're a Moritat or a destroyer. I like my Blood Angels like I like my Captain Amit, rippy as fuck.

But that's what an unupgrade tactical squad does. Without a CCW they only have their pistol.

Do you even know what we're arguing about?

>but then the entire first bit of Encarmine Fury is pointless
No it isn't, it means you don't get the bonus for overwatch (which is still part of "fighting in an assault") or hammer of wrath.

BA having +1 to wound with a Melee weapon?

Overwatch is before models are moved into assault, but the Hammer of Wrath bit is a fair point that i will concede. I hadn't thought of that.

>Dan Abnett version of the Emperor Horus fight
>Horus wrought a mighty blow on the Master of Mankind's midsection tossing him to the ground, his weapon struck to the ground with the force. "Father, I never wanted it to end like this", Horus whispered, as much to himself as to his father. Suddenly sixteen companies of Ultramarines teleported around Horus, levelled their bolters and fired. At their head Roboute Guilliman stood and as his brother bled out on the ground spat the curse "Psssh, nothing personal kid". Once again proving his mastery of all forms of warfare Roboute's plan then became evident as super secret techno viruses implanted over 20 years earlier into the operating systems of the traitor legions' power armour caused every traitor to explode in a great ball of flame. All throughout the Imperium the word "Ultramarines!" was chanted by man, woman and child. Roboute cared not for he was too busy finger blasting some Eldar sluzza he'd picked up on the ride over.

Okay, so why are people struggling with Custodes when they don't have their bikes, aka their best unit, just yet?

Sure they can beat face in assault, but they're basically just footslogging fancypants terminators. You know what kills terminators? Good AP or raw volume of fire whilst maintaining a brisk walking pace in the other direction.

Pretty sweet dreads as dreads go, but dreads have never been intimidating bedsides the Deredeo.

Caladius? It's a nice tank, really nice, but given it's volume of fire it's not only limited to certain roles, it has high overlap with what Custard Melee is good at killing.

Coronus? Pallas? Sagittarum? Garbage.

Where's their anti-horde? Where's there anti-air? Where's there speed? Where's their objective holding?

>someone said ultramarines are sues
Run for your lifes, here comes the smurf rage

>Sagittarum? Garbage.
>Where's their anti-horde?
Kek.

>Sure they can beat face in assault, but they're basically just footslogging fancypants terminators. You know what kills terminators? Good AP or raw volume of fire whilst maintaining a brisk walking pace in the other direction.

Guess that rules out close combat legions then. You know, like a good half of the Traitor legions are?

I...

Heavy Bolters at almost 3 times the cost of the same number of marines with heavy bolters.

Calling that anti-horde.

>Good AP
beaten by 2 wounds

>raw volume of fire
beaten by toughness 5

>S10 AP2 blasts
beaten by 3" coherency

There is not a lot of weapons that can be taken in sufficient quantity to hurt custodes in the same way that they can hurt terminators.

So the complaining is World Eaters players trying to charge into a blender then expressing outrage that it didn't work?

lists taking valdor or other HQ bullshit to give infiltrating, deep striking and other rubbish, small upgrades fuck with blast templates because of "reasons", literally every selection is god tier and hard as balls, pretty much all weaknesses are covered via various upgrades or other units, only downside? small model count of almost unkillable mostly gold + wash low effort models, but yeah forge your narrative and have "fun"

WEs being what they are that's probably exactly what would happen in the fluff, then they would charge again and the whole thing would repeat.

Unless ADB is writing things where WEs can charge a shield wall supported by vindicators and still win somehow.

Krios venators?

>Unless ADB is writing things where WEs can charge a shield wall supported by vindicators and still win somehow

Angron sent wave after wave of Astartes until the Vindicators hit their pre-set kill limit and shut down.

>the in-fluff premier close combat legion shouldn't be able to stand a chance against other high end close combat armies

>smurfags accusing other legions of plot armour

>Charging I5 that ignores your armour
>Expecting to do well

No, it does not make sense for the World Eaters to do well against Custodes. The nails/Khorne won't let them adopt the tactics any other legion could have applied to actually win.

>Guess that rules out close combat legions then. You know, like a good half of the Traitor legions are?
why do you think they fuckin' lost the war

>As the Emperor and Sanguinius arrived in Horus' throneroom, a curious sight awaited them
>The warmaster lay in the corner, his knees hugged to his chest, sobbing like an infant
>His mighty warplate had been painted in glittering cobalt, and what looked like a toilet seat spray painted gold had been glued to his pauldron, with multiple horseshoes adorning the rest of his equipment.
>"Father" he brought out between his tears, "why did you not make me an Ultramarine? Then this all could have been avoided" he cried as he rose. In that moment, Sanguinius noticed that he, too, was not a son of Guilliman and died of shame. Then the Emperor killed Horus with mind bullets for being a brat. "I really should have made Guilliman Warmaster" the Emperor thought, turned to leave but tripped over dead Sanguinius' wings and fell on his own sword, where Dorn found him. The End

World Eaters are the orks of 30k, they win by bringing lots of cheap models who utilise their legion rules to make the opponent roll buckets of save rolls.

It's one thing to say an individual World Eater can go toe to toe with a custodian but throw enough shit and eventually something will stick.

It's almost as if battles in the lore aren't limited to some sort of arbitrary point system that both sides abide by.

Sure, but how much do they even outnumber the ten thousand?

>Unless ADB is writing things where WEs can charge a shield wall supported by vindicators and still win somehow.
So you're saying what, the vindies should have fired into their own lines? Or that aggressive close combat "tactics" are completely invalid?

youtube.com/watch?v=bfcpyMdEwzM

Given that an individual standard custodian costs six and a half times as much as one standard world eater with bolt pistol and chainaxe, 6.5:1?

As a Custodes player, I will say this:

If we don't get the charge against WE we suffer, even with CounterAttack; the WE getting those extra attacks make a HUGE difference between life and death. We WILL get bogged down and fucked up the ass by that unless our Dreads run in and hold the enemy down, and if our shooting wasn't effective we have very little chance.

I fucking love playing my Custodes, but numbers will eat them alive with sheer volume of attacks thrown at them. The best defense against WE is the Praesidium Shield, and unless you're Hetaeron or a Captain/Tribune, those Sentinel Warblades aren't going to generate the extra attacks needed for staying power.

The lore makes them much hardier because they should be, but on the tabletop they play like buff as fuck Grey Knights and nothing more. You want raw firepower with bodies? Run Sisters of Silence with them. Don't wanna? learn to time your hand to hand or you will fucking lose every single time. Weight of fire and attacks will still kill us every single time.

Is there a grey / white marker / pen that I can use to shade / highlight? Because I'm terrible at using brush.

I'm terribly fond of destroyer squads vs custodes. Getting rad phage going means my power fists, in terminators or otherwise now ID them reliably. Also makeans my normal anti tank vets with combi meltas can wreck shop with ID. Lascannons also do the trick now. Basically I rad phage a squad per turn. It helps a lot.

What the fuck is with the Legion strawpoll at the moment? 41% of people say they want to play Blood Angels?

Now I want people to do how each of the HH Authors would do the final battle. McNeil, French, Wraight, Thorpe, Swallow etc.

Personally I really enjoy facing Custodes, I run a Sons of Horus 1st Company list with Abaddon and Justaerin as my main ground troops. It's like a Darth Vader vs. Luke Skywalker battle every time.

They can beat my night lords even when charged while outnumbered and in nightfighting, simply due to being too fucking tough. While thematic, its made me be unable to win against the golden boys for four games out of four, which is disheartening as i hate denying games due to imbalance. I can handle yiffs and 1ksons, and have only lost against 1ksons when they proxied a magnus, but custodes hard-counter me.

Do you not take Bolters? Plasma? Any ranged firepower worth speaking of?

Guy expressing disbelief of inability to counter Custodes here: I'll clarify I did say before bikes.

With bikes? Jesus, that's a scary army, plugs a lot of their limitations just from how crazy broken that one unit is. No AP melee, but hey they gotta have one thing they can't do.

>No AP2

Sorry my mother was rambling about her medication whilst I was typing that.