/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

5th Edition D&D General Discussion

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How should a paladin role play taking their oath?

I just wish my party paladin would follow his oath at all.

>just wish my party paladin would follow his oath at all.
I have a paladin player who took the oath of conquest from the paladin UA
He just uses it as an excuse to kill everyone, much to the dismay of the rest of the party who would like to interrogate someone for once.

>How should a paladin role play taking their oath?

Going through a magical ceremony they learned at their order.

Daily reminder that nongood paladins are cancer and the people who play them belong in the garbage can.

Xth for tanks exist

>Not starting at a level where you already have your oath

Daily reminder that non-Frankish paladins belong in the trash.

I like how they made oathbreaker disgustingly powerful but locked it behind the evil wall so no one can ever play it

>I like how they made oathbreaker disgustingly powerful but locked it behind the evil wall so no one can ever play it
All you have to do is break your oath and be a dick

Does intelligence get you any skills in this ed?

Nope. By default, intellect does jack shit but give you a + to your knowledge skills.

Being evil doesn't mean you have to murder every farmer and shopkeeper you come across so I'd say it's completely playable.
Also how to become oathbreaker:
>Break oath
>Become oathbreaker
You don't even have to be 'evil', I'd say even neutral can pass as oathbreaker in certain circumstances.

Are their any PHB Paladin subclasses that match up to Vengeance. Even when including team play it seems better.

Because it's the 60s/70s and you're allowed to have fun. Even the 80s were fun. Fun didn't die until 1995.

What makes you rate Vengeance so highly?

I would say Ancients is just as powerful, but defensively rather than offensively.

How do these early level dungeon ideas sound?

>Level 1, Abandoned Guard tower that's become the roost of a giant vulture and his brood.

>Level 2, Generic raid on a bandit camp and a showdown with the bandit captain

>Level 3, Seaside shrine that has fallen into a state of abandon that has corrupted it's water-weird guardian

>Level 4, Generic crypt of undead with the boss being the ghost of an old and bitter king

Vengeance's level 7 ability isn't very good.

Oathbreaker in the DMG is broken overpowered.

Vengeance's main features are the bonus action advantage and haste, and honestly the advantage is a little overrated. You'll probably not be using GWM, you'll probably be using PAM and thus losing a bonus action means less damage, and also it doesn't stack with other sources of advanace (prone/wolf barbarian) and it only affects one enemy.

Devotion offers a channel divinity that takes an entire action for +tohit, but it stacks with advantage, affects any creature you attack and honestly if you're out of range of enemies you can use it then, much like you can use a bonus action for vow of vengeance or whatever it is out of range.
Basically, other oaths have better level 7s. Vengeance has better channel divinities and slightly better spells, probably. But overall there's not a big difference.

Also oath of the crown is pretty okay, too.

>advantage on saving throws AND flat resistance to all magic for your ENTIRE party
>this somehow doesnt match up

One of my players (a fighter) is going to likely acquire a magical sword soon. They've been hunting for it for some time and are closing in. The story is that it's the classic deal, a sword that has been wielded by countless warriors before, coveted by all those who live by the sword. However, also in the classic vein, the legend says that it's a nefarious blade, and most of those who have wielded it have also met their end holding it. Supposedly, it's very much the "live by the sword, die by the sword" deal. Still, it's also supposed to be a powerful weapon, and of course that's all my players really care about.

Now, I don't really feel like making it the tired old "Go berserk and kill everyone" deal. Something like that feels like it should maybe be a bit more subtle. Like, not even outright cursed. More like, it's the kind of weapon that will push you towards a violent death. The kind which will inevitably cause grief and death around you as well. It's a sword with a dark history, after all.

Any suggestions? What do you think it should actually do, both in terms of powers and the curse (other than just generally steering things towards violence and misery and people coverting it and all that)? I've been toying with the idea that it might be haunted with all the previous owners who found only misery by taking it up, but I haven't really figured out any tasty rules for it. It probably shouldn't be anything too fancy, it's a sword made for hitting people after all, but just sticking some damage bonuses on it feels a bit dull as well.

How do you make an important magical weapon feel intresting and impactful to use while still mostly just being something that hits people?

But their channel divinity options are so boooring

They're pretty generic but that doesn't mean they are bad. I say go for it. These are adventure types that most people are familiar with so it's a safe place to start. Make sure to put secrets and maybe a puzzle or two into the crypts.

You'll need to do some foreshadowing and thematic tying, otherwise it'll end up feeling like an unconnected series of challenges instead of a coherent location.

Give it a unique mechanic.
>As a bonus action, you can magically extend the sword by X feet, increasing your reach by....
>On a critical hit, deal X damage of a different type and gain the same amount of HP back...
>Can cast X spell

You could just make it Blackrazor.

So whats the consensus of find steed atacking in combat?

Leave room for there being a way to overcome the curse in stead of all the previous owners, but make sure it doesn't just happen automatically.

Perhaps something where people become hostile to the bearer, as a 'bringer of bad luck, carnage and death' along with monsters seeking to kill whoever wields it. Perhaps with past spirits of wielders with it, they could give a very pessimistic view, but the idea is that as the wielder defies everybody's distrust and hate and continues to do good instead of feeling scorn over how they're hated and taking revenge, that the spirits in the sword might take back their pessimism and slowly monsters don't get drawn to the blade and it doesn't attract as much scorn. Though there'll still be people who're very cautious of the wielder.

Then the history with the sword could be that it was gifted by a king to a grand hero who did something great in the past, but who then fell shortly after getting the sword, instilling the paranoia everyone has, and everybody wishing curses on the hero and the swordbearers thereafter.

The sword isn't cursed.
It grants an extra bonus instead!

A specific bonus to Persuasion, make it twice the +s of the sword or something, it works with those that would follow the bearer into battle - but only as long as he leads from the front. If you ever stop, like a Charm effect, they become hostile.

The Warlord's Brand. A sword that leads armies, a crucible in which the best leaders of men are forged - and fall.

By RAI as per Jeremy Crawford, it can only attack if you are not riding it.

Ancient's magic resist aura is fucking ridiculous, but yeah, it doesn't have many good damage options even if it gives you some aoe the rest of the kit misses.

i think vengeance's power is solely on the spells, hunter's mark, hold person/monster, haste, banishment, etc. are all pretty fucking good and let you function as a nova machine much more easily without having to rely on your party.

>Sword feels cold to touch
>Casts X level Armor of Agathys on the bearer when activated. Once per short/long rest.

>The sword has a lust for blood
>If the player attempts to sheathe the sword before it has had it's fill of blood the sword will attempt to cast command/Crown of Madness on it's bearer

>yfw a gnome with a dagger has 5ft reach
>you can grab someone and hit them with a battle axe doing 1d8 damage
>you do a 1d10 damage to someone on the same square as you when using a pike
>the only advantages to using a spear aren't present in the game
>trident does the same damage as short sword
>you can throw a javelin the same distance as you can shoot a hand crossbow and yet they both do the same damage
>a rapier does more damage than a shortsword
>a stick does the same damage as a morning star

>Gonna be DMing today
>didn't prep anything

This gonna be good.

aura of warding only gives resistance to damage from spells.
yeah, it's still fucking strong of an effect.

This. Devotion's Sacred Weapon is nuts. Turning isn't bad, either, and their immunity to Charm as an aura is a big fucking deal against intelligent threats. The Oath's weakest point is probably its spell selection, which even then lets you free up on prepared spells since some of them are staples despite being on the Paladin list already (Sanctuary, Prot. From Evil/Good, Dispel Magic), with the exception of Freedom of Movement which is an excellent addition.
Their capstone is probably the worst of all the core Oaths, but some classes have it worse.

I feel that same way about Vengeance's non-channel divinity features. They're mechanically sound, but not very interesting.
Meanwhile, Devotions and Ancients get to denounce demons and undead/fey to make them turn, and make the whole party immune to like half the effects in the game/magical damage by mere presence alone. It's cool as fuck.

The times I've DM'd I just hastily scrapped shit to gether while the players were making PCs
Probably why we never make it to 2nd session and I got no repeat players

Oh, as for abilities, I'd do something like:
>As a bonus action, once a short rest, the sword becomes wreathed in a dark energy and deals an extra damage die of necrotic damage for a minute.
And maybe an ability to summon a minor devil as a ritual.

The idea is that it has some evil abilities associated with it the spirits of previous wearers will reveal.
But the idea is that you're not supposed to abuse these abilities, or else things are only going to get worse. Using them in moderation is fine.
But later they can find that it has more holy variations that can be revealed and used to smite undead, fiends and the like.

Though honestly I think testing the player with 'You COULD be stronger, but that'd be evil' would be obnoxious because the player is 90% likely to just go with more power and then you'd be a bit of a jerk to say 'Okay, well now you're evil'.

The focus is that the scorn people show towards them is supposed to challenge their resolve, not the sword's abilities itself. So, I don't know. I don't know how powerful you want it to be.


That wasn't the statement originally made, Oath of Ancients is just as good but from a different angel.

I actually had an idea for an Oathbreaker Paladin who was a Paladin of the Crown that, for some reason, became disillusioned with the nation that he served. He's still Good, but he no longer believes in the Crown that he pledged himself to.

Oathbreaker's spells and flavor are still pretty Evil, though.

Is great weapon fighting the fighting style just a bait option.

Defense seems a lot better with PAM.

Depends on what weapon you're using, with a greatsword it's decent but other than that pretty lackluster.

GWF gives +1.33 damage to 2d6 per hit, +0.8 damage to 1d10, +0.5 damage to 1d4.

It exists for when you really want to push the absolute limits of how much damage you can do, but it is pretty baitey considering on anyone who has access to GWF that polearms are a better choice of weapon than greatswords.

Defense is probably better.

It's really good if you're going to go just raw GWM with a greatsword/maul and not PAM. There isn't much reason to do that other than flavor or if you're going to be using Bonus Actions for something other than PAM attacks.

>halfling cleric (male)

The meme never ends.


She's not an healslut! She's a propper girl!
And her propping is ok, because she's in love!

When did this logic switch? GWF was considered the only choice for damage a while ago. Is it because they said it doesn't work with Smite and such; only the base damage dice?

For the most part, yes.
Scaling damage is one thing, but a fixed not even +2? Fuck that, let's grab the AC, at least it's not supposed to scale in the first place.

I'll be larping with my chastity cage and buttplug as a pure maiden of Yondalla, I'll have you know.

anyone have any cool/funny uses of the decanter of endless water? just got one on my item fighting thief, so i can reliably use it mid battle as well

This is one thing that bugs me a lot about 5th ed. It's gotten so streamlined. Does anyone really see the point of having characteristics anymore? The variety comes from multi-classing, and otherwise you're going down the same technical path for your class. Granted, there are a lot of classes, but other than +[x] to your attack rolls, what do characteristics even add to the system anymore?

I mean, suppose you're playing a wizard and you go high INT and high CON so you can hit more often and get more health. Well, if you want to be persuasive too, you can't because your CHA isn't high. At any level. You can be proficient at it, but that's the furthest it goes, and your proficiency rises across the board depending on your level.

been reading this since last thread, not sure if i like it but i can agree it's arousing, most complicated feel.

I don't know if it's possible for D&D to have it at this point, because it's too old a game in general, but it needs more robust role playing mechanics.

They've finally got a system that is fairly streamlined and works reasonably well for combat that doesn't take six hours per fight, but there's only a few social skills and maybe a few tool proficiencies for things like vehicle piloting and social interaction.

It needs settings, adventures, and mechanics that actually facilitate good role playing; it's right now mostly a combat system with roleplaying tied to it loosely. In a sense, roleplaying is only there because the game says it's there; it doesn't provide the structure to support it. I dunno what would help, though, because other games that I can think of that are RP-heavy (VtM comes to mind, horrible balance notwithstanding) are tied inextricably to their setting, whereas D&D tries to be fairly generic.

/pfg/ is 2 threads down


>but from a different angel

This could be a pun based off of a divine power source. Or it could be a typo.

Maybe if they got rid of characteristics and gave you a point-buy system for skills. Combat is just flat proficiency across the board and gets higher depending on your level, and every level you get to allocate a set number of points into your skills. I'd say tie the points into INT like they used to, but I think they're going away from that direction, so just have it be a specific amount.

That way combat is still streamlined, or even moreso, and the variance comes from your skills or from multiclassing to stack whatever advantages.

As it is, I've got a character and a backup character. The starting guy rolled really bad stats, so he's not higher than a 12 in anything. He gets a +1 from his characteristics to hit, and he's a wizard, so I've been relying on spells that always deal damage or half damage because otherwise I can't hit a damn thing. Meanwhile, the backup character has a 16 or higher in a bunch of characteristics.

Of course I'll never play with the backup character because I'm cautious and always stand my wizard in safe places, so the wizard probably won't die. I just don't get the point, though. Why does my wizard have to kind of suck ass, but my replacement fighter has completely stellar characteristics? If I'd rolled better, the wizard would just be better and that'd be all she wrote.

Doesn't make any sense for the fact that all these stats do is give me a +[x] to attacks.

Diviner vs Abjurer vs notCleric for a wiz that wants to actually be useful?

I'm not sure what you're asking but I like abjurers

I'll never tell

I lied its a typo.

Diviner to gaurantee enemies fail saves and sometimes save a teammate.
Notcleric for even more fucking spells, +2 to saves sometimes because OP shit and looking all clericy.
Abjurer if you're really bad at playing wizard and need a crutch, or if you're thinking of taking a warlock multiclass for armor of agathy memes.

>rolling for stats

Found your first problem.

If you want a more nuanced social encounter game, talk to your DM. There are a ton of modules that offer that. I'd check out Murder in Baldur's Gate.

If you want to buff your core stats, then talk to the DM about going on a quest for Divine boons or magic items that can do that.

So you want to remove characteristics and work on a sort of Fallout-esque skill system where you have everything divided into skills (weapons, speech, barter, guns) and you improve those when you level up? I kinda like that desu.

Real memers roll for stats

Here's a houserule I usually play with, every int mod is a bonus language for your character. Languages are pretty important in my campaigns.
>while a sinkhole appears every hour, the players are trying to get into a dwarven vault in the city to stop the sinkholes
>because they don't know dwarven, it is gonna take several hours to get in instead of half an hour

Real memers need to suck it up when the stat rolls don't go their way.

>Wizard becomes the translator

This is how most games of LMoP go when playing with the pregen characters.

What's the most interesting sorcerous origin you've seen?

It feels like a water-down and better supported version of Fantasycraft. Which, to be fair, is a great step for D&D, but only an okay step for Fantasycraft.
The weapons and armaments and combat just seems so simple. I loathe pathfinder's bloat and all that, but I did like being able to synergize weapon and build beyond "can I apply dex to damage?"

>talk to the DM about going on a quest for Divine boons or magic items that can do that.
See, but if we're going to go on a quest that'll raise someone's stats, I'd rather raise the stats of the guy who already has an 18 in his core combat characteristic. Why? Because if we get him up to 20 Strength, a +5 is way more valuable than getting my wizard a +2 to hit. I already have fireball, so I'm always going to hit my targets even if I only do half damage. Meanwhile the barbarian can be trusted to land his attack.

And we're level 6, so we already have more cash than we need and all the best equipment money can buy. The optimal strategy is to make the best characters better, and if the worst characters die, then re-roll.

DnD doesn't reward you in any way for having low characteristics. It's not cheaper to go from 12 to 14 compared to 18 to 20. You're always playing catch up and the character with a higher roll is always more reliable.

My suggestions:
The vulture fled from its coastside lair because of evil events. Leave clues to this somehow. Perhaps the nest has some sea related items in it, perhaps there's the corpse of a fisherman in the bird / being fed to the brood. Maybe he had a note on him or something, who knows.

The bandits are cultists (or at least the captain worships) of a wicked water god, they (or he) caused the mishap described later. Clues in captain's private quarters (idol, waterbreathing potion) and on his person (amulet, religious text)

This dungeon is a thing because of the cultists above. Water guardian begs players for help to cleanse the shrine with an item in the dungeon described next.

The bitter king ruled a sea faring kingdom that discovered many lands, and people. They brought back several weird artifacts. When the king dies he begs players to take his dust to the seas. Doing so causes the king's old ship to rise from the waters in the horizon. If the players get there, there's a large pile of treasure waiting for them (and maybe some sea-folk who are confused as to why their nest suddenly surfaced. they have no use for the treasure so they can be talked to).

>raise someone's stats
how about
>raise everyone's stats

It's actually just a sword but it was wielded by extremely powerful fighters. And with power comes temptation! And they have all failed.

Okay. But - what's the point of the characteristics, then? See? 5e has reached a point of arbitrary abstraction that they really don't make any sense.

It used to be fine because you had more control over your skills, so you'd roll and see what you had to work with, then plan around it. A bad roll might be salvageable. But now a bad roll is just a bad roll.

I need an alternate name for hang gliders, please help

Gliders that hang


>Capture a man captive that we suspect is behind a human trading ring.
>Rogue wants to kill him on the spot.
>Warn him not to as we have no actual evidence, and even if we did it's not in our power to kill a man based on our judgement.
>Group debates on what to do, eventually deciding to cart him back to town (three days away), so they could deal with him there
>Sick of this the rogue lunges in to cut his throat
>Roll to intercept, get a crit and cut the rogues hand off with my greatsword.
>Rogue loses his shit and bitches at me OOC
>DM decides to kick me out of the party a few minutes later for starting pvp

The path of a paladin is a lonely one.


Flying Kites

That's pretty retarded, and not very believable. Did it actually happen?

Landfill Methane Outreach Program?

They are there so you can literally roll up a character and background on the spot and have them somewhat fleshed out.

You're really worried about mechanical benefits from everything instead of looking at them like flavor. How about asking your DM for chances to train in different things you want to be good in.

I'm afraid so.

Anyone need another member in their group?

>Paladin goes straight to removing limbs

epic! totally had the higher moral ground there bro!

Shit DM

Go in this direction.
Heavenly Kites!

Wasn't really my intention, but that's how my DM rules crits.

You could easily rework the game into being stat-less.
Give some points to distribute to saves, to skills, to hit and damage (or maybe not those 2, or separated), hps, and work from the derived statistics instead of the abilities.

Depends on the way he worded the intercept, unfortunately most people treat 20s as "lol I get what I want even if it was impossible to begin with XD!"

>I want to stop him from attacking
>After advocating for not murdering someone
>Oh you rolled a 20 so that means you want to cripple him

As a DM this annoys me

Several questions. Where did you capture this man?

Why did the GM let you roll to intercept, then kick you?

Why is the rogue such a bitch? You could probably fix his hand up again.

My point is that it isn't flavor anymore, though. All those stats do is determine how easily I'll hit the enemy in combat. I guess it adds to skill rolls somewhat too, but that's more influenced by whether I took proficiency.

>Everyone goes on a fun adventure to save the shire from Voldemort
>Broseidon himself shines his Lite Beer Rays upon you
>He grants you each a boon for rescuing his Little Hobbitses
>Everyone becomes a bit stronger, smarter, or faster in a way that fits their personalities

>If everyone benefits, no one really benefits

Well, that sucks.
But it's quite alright, anonymous. You don't deserve to play with people like that.

Lost Mine of Phandelver. The starter set adventure. The Elf Wizard is usually the only one to know goblin.

>Where did you capture this man?
An abandoned keep, few days track from either of the closest villages. Apparently travelers had been going missing when traveling from village to village.

>Why did the GM let you roll to intercept, then kick you?
I don't think he'd expected the level of bitching the rogue was putting out

>Why is the rogue such a bitch? You could probably fix his hand up again.
Without a doubt. The player complained about everything, from bad rolls to not getting enough attention.

Man Kites

Gliders of hanging

>If everyone benefits, no one really benefits
In a relative sense this is true, though. I guess I forget how DnD works with AC, so if the whole party has a +1 to attack then all enemies are in +1 danger. But if the GM intends to balance encounters, he's going to scale the enemies to reflect that.

>Dear diary
>This creepy fucker is still standing way too close and looking over my shoulder
>Lucky for me he can't read and only pretends to

It really sounds like an excuse to kick you out.
Was the rest of the group ok with it?

If it was online, maybe it was just the DM power-tripping, but RL... they wanted you out, but didn't want to confront you about it.