/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

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This week's Monday Meeting Notes:

What's your favorite character that you've ever played in a WoD game?

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So what happens if a human who was created as a component of a demon's Cover gets Embraced, or Awakens, or something?

Cover is part of the demon isn't it?

How do you know it's a thing if you haven't looked it up? What do you even look up?

Tzimisce absolute fucking monster, or an OD Nosferatu who's much of the same. Fuck Touchstones. Had another OD with Malkavia who found out that Dementation actually works on the Strix.

Havent't got a NWoD woof who sticks out yet, but I used to have a Bone Gnawer who ripped on other tribes like 24/7. "Black Furies, huh, they ain't even BLACK, yall!"

NWO operative who said things that made people question their very existence. Was actually able to work with a mostly Trad group without fucking them all.

Or my attempt at creating cyborgs in Awakening. Gotta say it worked pretty well, as long as they weren't sleepers. ~I~ never tried it on sleepers, but the Guardians tried to frame me for it.

Never got to play, but I had a cryonics researcher who got frozen as part of a prank gone wrong in Sin-Eaters. His Geist looks like a frozen caveman corpse, claims to be that old, but it's probably bullshit.

VtR: Invictus/Ventrue Hound with a hound. Because even a vampire won't lie with dobermans teeth on his crotch

So, something to discuss: What sort of things should a spirit ask for as a part of a bargain? What can a spirit ask players to do that's fun and engaging "on-screen"?

Generally, you look for corporate supply chains and the malfeasances thereof. Before you buy something, explore the connections the company in question has. For example, Nestle uses child labour on a truly ridiculous scale, in appalling conditions. This isn't exactly concealed. The company has been responsible for mass deaths of babies by convincing mothers that breast milk is less healthy than formula. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Now go and find how many subsidiaries Nestle has; how many food service corporations it has investments in.


That's the short list.

That's all really easy to find. It takes planning and effort to work around that - for poor people, it often isn't even possible - but are you even choosing to try?

I'm not, because I'm kind of a selfish asshole. But that's all a Seer is. He only looks like a selfish asshole to other people because they get screwed over by people like him, instead of the litany of people they screw over in turn.

Pretty sure that breast milk thing is to a large extent bullshit.

But if you look into everything like that your life would slow down to a crawl leaving you unable to get anything done. And how do you sort fact from fiction besides knowing that organic food is a marketing ploy and not to believe places like naturalnews?

The Seer is making the world worse on purpose because they have been told to do so. That is their explicit aim, to keep people down.

Intent matters.

Same way you found out organic foods are a marketing ploy and not to believe places like naturalnews.

And, yeah, these things would all take time away from your day and make your life a bit more difficult. But you're literally contributing to child slavery every time you do it.

And that's my point. Seers don't have to see some poor bastard with anger issues beat his wife as victims create more victims. The Seer just has to keep putting money in the pockets of the right politicians or keep building inspectors away from rat-infested ghettos.

As for the breast milk thing, Nestle does stuff like promoting formula as a healthier alternative to breast milk, which it gives out for free in hospitals and such. Nestle's been ruled against by the UK Advertising Standards Authority, by the World Health Organization, Oxfam, etc., for massively unethical practices, re: formula. It is anything but bullshit.

Intent does matter, but so do consequences. The Seers have the same excuse as anyone; they're just trying to get by. They don't hate you personally, and can't, because they aren't even thinking of you.

Seers don't have to be sadistic or malicious; just willing to say "Fuck you, got mine".

>Intent matters.

Also while negligence or just turning a blind eye can be considered a way to be "part of the problem" thats not what the seers is about.

Their book and the author is pretty clear that the seers any seers is disaude of that notion very early on and made to do questionable things.

Favoring or not voting a shitty candidate is one thing but blackmailing the opposition because the elder gods told you to do so is another.

The excuse of "you just want do your own thing and join the seer for security" doesnt fly that much because a) Mage supremacy and b) you can choose to be nameless and jerk off to your magical waifu for the rest of your life and not meddle with humanity.

The Seers, as i've said repeatedly, saw outer gods with big bank accounts, and bent the knee. They're not "just trying to get by," They join the Seers for the perks of limitless wealth and power by pissing in the face of all mankind forever.

Even the Scelesti are more sympathetic than that. They see an Inconceivable Heaven of Limitless Possibility as an alternative to "the way things are" and can only get there by shattering the universe with paradox. Granted, they go foaming at the mouth nuts because of these things

By being Scientifically semi-literate?

Those times i do those things do add up, you know. And keeping a running list mentally? Fuggedaboutit.

And as to that formula thing. sure, nestle are liars and shitbags. but i doubt they have a monopoly on formula.

A'ight fuckers I'm probably going to be unemployed in the near future. To celebrate let's do something constructive.

I'm going to design a Legacy roll for parent path

1. moros

Thrysus. Their legacies usually suck, so make it good pls.

Fuck it why not.

What order?

Free Council.

Something that shits on the whole "Thrysus Hippie" nonsense.

Ruling arcana?

Shits on how?


Doesn't go for it. Preferably techgnostic.



I would say nothing, because the cover doesn't have a soul.

Does it?

I don't see how it's that different, man. All that means is you kinda sold your soul cheap; they get limitless wealth and power for the price of helping enslave vast swathes of humanity, and all you get is some cheap blue jeans.

Already exists. Check out the Neo-Ecologists in Tome of the Watchtower.

Perhaps they try to become one with the machine to transcend human limitations?

Neo-Ecologists want everything to get overgrown with plant life though. I'm thinking of machine spirits.

Sure. I imagine they'd get along well with transhuman engineers if they go that route.

Its cool user, i just became unemployed, last day of my two weeks yesterday, i know your pain

Also 6

You don't think the average seer has at least luxury 2?

Sure they do. And the average First Worlder has that compared to people living in Nestle's slave farms on the Ivory Coast. You and I bowed our heads to the elder gods that are multinational corporations, the Seers bowed to the Exarchs.

At the end of the day, we're all whores.

Doesn't any dots in Status: Seers of the Throne already double as dots in resources?

There is no Pentacle in the real world. People can't use magic. It's a false equivalency.


Sure there is. Y'know groups like Christian Children's Fund, or FairVote, or corporate accountability advocates? They're our Pentacle. They're the people who work behind the scenes to try and make the world a better place - occasionally while following their own weird personal dramas and obsessions - and usually failing because the bad guys are more powerful.

And, yeah, people can't use magic, but that ain't really necessary. We're talking about bending your knee for a paycheck and shaking hands with evil. We can imagine it because iit exists in our world.

Just reread up on the Transhuman Engineers I think my initial idea isn't novel enough. Perhaps less deus ex and more adeptus mechanicus?

They believe that technology will be the key to mankind ascension against the exarchs and seek to shepherd the spirits of technology until then?

Say you're a writer for OPP. When you're not dumpster diving for your daily dinner, you're told to Ravnos any clan/tribe/order/whatever you wish to up the ante.

Who do you choose?

Glass Walkers

hell yes.

They don't dominate the MNC's 2-1.

someone who deserves it. Probably a woof tribe chosen at random or the verbena.

Mages, in the most retarded way possible ala Blood treachery to make the Magefags cry.

Favorite character I ever played was a social character based off of Saul Goodman. I was so into the character I just went by the name Saul Goodman. I got so much shit done by using allies, retainers and social shit. And for some reason I had ONE OF THE HIGHEST KILL COUNTS OF ALL THE PLAYERS.

>someone who deserves it.
>Probably a woof tribe chosen at random
Most tribes dont deserve it

they are all too stupid to live

>Most tribes dont deserve it

I would like to read that the garou nation as whole set the fianna to die in one suicidal battle after they realize they were pointless as tribe and they were just the bro tribes of the nation.

They just watch them charge as the morons they are while promising they are right behind them bringing the booze.

Everyone makes mistakes

Fianna did nothing wrong

Tremere. Magic for Mages, Stakes for Vampires.

The same fucking mistake that many times as a contiguous culture?

Still, i'm leaning towards the Verbena. At least the Euthanatos know the danger they risk.

>The same fucking mistake that many times as a contiguous culture?
Like what? It's not Garous' fault the other shapechangers are jerks, and the impergium worked before the war of rage

>Fianna did nothing wrong

They are useless, for a fighter tribe you got the fenrir, for inspirational tribe you got the Silver Fangs. And a for the diplomat tribe the Cogs or even the Shadowlord are better.

They are the tribe of getting drunk, thats their only contribution to the nation. The revised tribebook did nothing to expand them beyond that.

>for inspirational tribe you got the Silver Fangs
Kek, those inbreds live in the past, they are all crazy

And Fianna are the bards, historians, the jack-of-all trades tribe.

Impergium is why they deserve what happens to them, deviant.

>And Fianna are the bards

Fenrir are better at it though, for some reason their gift list makes them very good at diplomats and firefighters or all things.


You will trust the drunk irish for factual information? And again that niche is better serve by literary any other more trustworthy tribe. CoG, Stargazers or even silent striders.

>the jack-of-all trades tribe.

Cogs are better at it though, gift wise. And as a jack of all trades they suck as their are to close minded.

Impergium was the right mive at the time

Okay, you got me, they are not that useful

>Kek, those inbreds live in the past, they are all crazy

Yes, because the Fianna dont live in the past at all....oh wait

The Mysterium.

Something dark invades the Egregore, twisting and invading the minds and souls of many Mages, passing along their sympathetic links.

The Order is not destroyed but scattered and severely diminished, ancient masters of the Order activating fallbacks and dumping entire libraries of information into surviving member's poor, delicate meatbrains for safekeeping before banishing them from the system.

Many are driven insane, and others suffer extreme trauma from the immediate, and unwilling influx of knowledge. The Mysterium is now a scattered remnant of its former self, those members who were not killed or enslaved by the entity/element are now half-mad, Mad or catatonic.

While those ancient masters of the Order now seek to hunt down their disparate comrades, and forge the Egregore anew. This is not exactly easy, as these living repositories of lore are grand prizes, for Seers and the Pentacle alike.

Meanwhile, Archmasters seek to find out exactly which faggot broke the Pax, so they can dog-pile his ass.

Glass Walkers, they should have been antagonists in the first place

>they should have been antagonists in the first place

Under some lore vampires do not have souls and so should be able to embrace a soulless cover.

A demon would have to make a contract to acquire a Mage's awakened soul in order to give his cover an awakened soul.

However, because having a fully controlled mage or vampire would unbalance the game I would make the cover gain free will and self-control if they acquired such powers.

Shadow Lords or Silverfangs. Their niches are way too similar imo.

>Walkers are the main reason the Garou Nation aren't being processed in Autocthonia

Antagonists, indeed

>processed in Autocthonia

The only thing they've released teased a Second Inquisition which has driven into hiding, or destroyed, many elders, leaving the Neonates and Ancillae to run the night.

I played a Beast, anakim with a hunger for punishment, who was basically a cross between Roman from GTA4 and the Juggernaut.

Now I want to play a beast with a hunger for being punished.

Whoa whoa whoa, what book is this coming out of?

Ooo, ooo. This sounds fun. Can you tell me more? Preferably a lot more? Favorite played characters always interest me and it sounds like you've got a lot to share.

>Neo-Ecologists want everything to get overgrown with plant life though. I'm thinking of machine spirits.
Pretty sure those guys exist in the Silver Ladder book (Lords of the Inanimate or something?) but they might be Moros+Spirit rather than Thyrsus+Matter

Looks like M20.

Yep, it's M20.

So, what do people here think about the Followers of Set? Just, in general.

>Blood Treachery
>when vampfags infiltrated Ascension
>magefags retaliating by nuking an Antediluvian using Forces 5

oWoD writers at their worst
>muh splat can beat up your splat

The writers didn't even know what they were writing most of the time.

It's only going to get worse with Dracula in-charge.

I don't play Mage but couldn't the Union have just teleported Ravnos into the sun instead of using stupid dragon ball z spirit nuke shit?

It's funny, because had the Union done nothing, Zapathasura still would have been killed (by the third Boddhisatva), and all of the repercussions of the spirit-nuke would have been avoided. Also, in The Last Battleground, the Union feeds Eater-of-Souls the sacrifice it needs for its anchor.

That's actually one of the biggest complaints relating to Week of Nightmares. Zapathasura had no Correspondence Wards to speak of. It should have been over in a second.

Deciding to nuke India for no apparent reason just speaks volumes of how stupid the writing staff was back then.

Ravnos was protected by Plot Armor(tm).

The only way that Ravnos could survive more than a few moments was if the entire Technocratic Union turned into imbeciles and for all their archmasters to suddenly go AWOL.

The third Boddhisatva was pre-destined to win, yeah. You'd think the Union would have been pragmatic about the whole ordeal and just let vampires deal with their own issues.

But nope. Must go full 'Murica' and bomb everything. When they could have just teleported Ravnos into a black hole.

>mages shitting all over destiny

That's actually really fucking funny, to be honest.

So how do you guys handle story merits with exp? I know the game says to just buy them but that seems a bit weird. I mean does it just make it impossible for people to like the character unless he has exp to spare? It runs the other way to, if a player wants to buy say allies in the police despite never seriously interacting with them do they just suddenly start liking him?

The Arch-Scientists were off drinking margaritas over on one of their resort planets, no doubt.

>Must go full 'Murica' and bomb everything

Technocracy, Fuck Yeah!

Why attain Forces 5 if you don't blow shit up big time!

>why even bother to kill a super vampire when you can taste the best drinks the galaxy has to offer

Basically the fun came down to me trying my hardest to be Saul Goodman. Never called my secretary the right name, was a complete jackass to all the other female players and characters. Treated all of the supernatural shit I was seeing with flippant disregard. My first ever roll in the campaign (not to mention my first roll ever since this was my first ever WOD character) was to convinced the manager at a burger king that he put a roach in my food. A lot of the characters skills were put in to talking and all but one of my merits went into contacts, allies and retainers. I had a person for everything.

Why do we fight for mankind?
Not for the glory, the rewards, or the super-science.
But for Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters.

For you see, 10 years ago, this would be Vulgar. And now?

I think this goes to show that, in the end, mages really are a bit too powerful by RAW to be that interesting in a game with nonmage splats.

Crossover is a horrible idea anyway.

Idea for a spell. You use temporal summoning to summon all the pain a person has ever felt to the present.

Any idea what practice this would be?

I suppose they could argue that because Chimersty 10 was going fucking wild they wanted to be sure

I think it's hard for making them work with non setites, so they don't come often as player characters

>Forces 5

Forces 4, lol

I had the exact same thought! Which is why I had the idea to write an entire sourcebook specifically for playing Setites, specifically in Requiem 2e or settings like it.

Sssshhhhh, we don't want the vampfaggots even angrier than before.

Unmaking, I can't see any other way to collapse all points in his timeline.

>Nestle and breast milk
Nope. That's a bullshit urban legend. The tiny grains of truth it was built out of are dust beside the moronic legend it spawned.

>Nestle and child labor
Way more complicated then it sounds. Coca plantations in Africa are an ethical fucking nightmare, but it's also were most coca comes from. Nestle, however, should inspect more of it's supply chain then it does.

In the end of the day there is no such thing as ethically sourced chocolate, so boycott it all if you are going to boycott any.

Dude, if people can play Pathfinder and deal with the tiers they can play crossover no problem. Let alone the fact that different characters usually spec for completely different things anyways.
The real problem is dealing with niches. 1 vampire means the party can only operate at night. 1 werewolf means periodic breaks for hunts.

I appreciate what you're trying, but there's no need to pretend just to assuage the vamp and werefags' egos. A single mage WILL make the rest of the party irrelevant, if not at the very beginning then eventually

That said, I think that might have been referring more to the idea that, since a non-Mage can't go up against a Mage without getting turned into a lawnchair, Mages make terrible antagonists in non-Mage games, and non-Mage antagonists are trivial in Mage games.

What exactly is an urban legend? Nestle has been found multiple times over at least two decades to have been found to be deliberately using misleading advertising to convince mothers to use formula over breast milk. The company's made SOME effort to change, but not enough to have not been found guilty of producing advertising materials in violation of WHO guidelines back in 2011.

Also, no-one spoke about it not being complicated; merely that it happens. Children get used like chattle serfs in farms on the Ivory Coast. Nestle profits off that. So does just about every chocolate manufacturer.

Just because they all do it doesn't make Nestle any less of a profiteer off of child slavery. And I ate a Nestle chocolate bar a few days ago. I'm kind of a fucking monster.

Mages can actually make amazing villains in non-Mage games, to be certain.
Villains should be terrifying and dangerous to go up against, and the Awakened are perfect for that.

They also make for great wild cards, the characters you only visit in dire situations. Even a newly awakened Moros will be a highly esteemed individual worthy of a Kindred Prince's attention.

Isn't this what crossover is meant for? To use other splats as NPCs rather than actual PCs?

Balance means little, but they're supposed to used as characters regardless, just not always in the playable sense.

I know Demons and Mummies are also supposed to be in the top tiers for power. But what can they do actually?

You've got a good point. Mages make for great antagonists when you want to force players to think creatively, because the only way they can be engaged is if you catch them completely off guard.


It's gotten to the point where I can't tell if this is bait or not.

These young whippersnappers today they just don't get it. The 90s were a great time to be alive, son, no need to feel shame on our behalf. We used to have this thing called fun back then.

It is pretty entertaining to see people cringing at 90s grimderp the same way we used to cringe at 70s renfairderp though.

I miss the 90's. Didnt have any of the bullshit we have today.

Ever think crossover only sucks because the majority of STs suck at what they do?

Depends. Its either the st can't effectively spotlight the whole group or one splat isnt balanced to play with others. Frankly I'd jus have the whole group be one splat with maybe one mortal or a beast in tow and call it a day