/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

Space Marine Edition

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>Hawk Wargames website, with links to models, rules, and forums

>DZC rules, units, errata, etc

>DZC Phase 2 Rules and Scenarios
>DZC Phase 2 Units
>DZC Phase 2 Fluff

>free DZC army builders

>DFC Rules and Scenarios
>DFC Units
>DFC Fluff

>free DFC fleet builder

>DFC Kickstarter, lots of useful information to drudge through

Reminder to ignore bait, unless it is masterfully crafted.

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Ya see, posting post human losers is how you kill a thread. If we had Hugo Boss Scourge man as our frontliner everyone would be talking.

> scourgies actually believe this


Just starting to get into DFC with space hedgehogs. How many ships is a good core to build off of? Currently looking at getting 2 starters, but I'm not sure what the normal points levels are for the game.

"Normal" games generally run around 1250 points, and two starters will get you most of the way there. Pick up a battleship and you should hit that point mark easily.
Most fleets I see rock between 5 and 8 cruiser+ ships, and around 8-15 light vessels depending on how many corvettes are in use. Given you're a dirty hog player, a BB would be a very good buy to expand your fleet; the Shaltari battleships are still at the top of the heap arguably even after a nerf or two.

Speakin' of PHR, what are the tiers for PHR ships? In the past few threads, I've seen various degrees of bashing on different ship classes, most notably the Ganymede. Is this partially memes, or are there actual issues with some of the PHR's fleet options?

There's a few.
Orpheus: Vastly underpriced troopship. It's an Ajax that gets more health, for only a teeny teeny point increase.. AND CARRIES TROOPS! All other faction troopships have sub-frigate firepower, but barely cost any less. Way too cheap. Needs to be like 30 points more.

Ganymede: She's actually really good for a troopship. It's just that the Orpheus is too good. Bombardment and troops go together well, and the other gun battery's still better than other races troopships.

So I'd say:
S Tier (OP as Fuck): Belleraphon, Orpheus
A Tier (Strong): Orion, Theseus, both Battleships, the Echo
B Tier (Usefulish): Ajax, Ganymede, All Combat Frigates
C Tier (Could use help): Hector, Ikarus, Andromeda
D Tier (Needs help badly): Achilles
F Tier (Fuck you): Perseus

Funny thing is, the fact that nobody thinks it can do anything has actually helped the perseus a bit. It was MVP last game with a pair of europas, and shit all over a pair of hog heavy cruisers and their frigate escorts.

I haven't been able to use Echoes yet, but it feels like you're paying for a nice dual-role ship instead of a super-efficient corvette.

You pay a bit more for it as it's the most durable of the corvettes, and the fact that it can also operate as a harasser during orbital operations thanks to Stealth and its med. caliber turret. This means it can get to its prey easier, and it's not useless if enemy strike cruisers are cleared out or heavily protected.

Besides the Jade and Granite, are there any other F-tier ships?

That might be it. I'm not too familiar with the jelly's fleet options, but the UCM's are fairly well rounded.

Dragon class BB is a pretty pitiful example of what a battleship should be. Past that there aren't any ultra gimp tier that penalize the player.

Ganymede isn't actually that bad, but it has 2 major problems. Firstly, Orpheus exists and is significantly better and cheaper. Secondly, it is expected to carry an entire faction's bombardment all by itself and it just can't do that. One doesn't have the power, and the positioning concerns of troopships mean that multiple Ganymedes are rarely able to work together.

Hector is an inherently bad concept that was realised about as well as it could have been. The broadsides and laser are both pretty good individually, but together they're like oil and water. Lining up S guns with F(N) guns for weapons free is fantastic when it works, but most of the time it simply doesn't.

Achilles is simple. Torpedoes are underpowered, heavy broadsides are underpowered. Achilles is based around both.

Perseus is an inherent bad concept that was realised fucking terribly. You get the usual lacklustre front turret, the admittedly useful light batteries for frigate killing, then the heavy batteries that wouldn't fit with those lights at all even if they didn't suck. It's meh at best outside of extremely specific situations, and even in those optimal situations it's not fantastic. Not the worst ship in the game imo since Granite and Jade still exist, but it's pretty close.

And don't listen to that other user about Andromeda and Ikarus, they're both great ships that can add a lot to a broadside team.

UCM has no F tier ships. Or S tier honestly.
Everything in their entire faction IMO are in A or B tiers. They're extremely balanced after the last experimental rules, which buffed the suffering New York and St. Pete.

The only stinker is the San Francisco, which is fine since it's a required troopship.

Lima is S tier best girl.

Sanfran is alright. It isn't meant to be a combat ship, it's meant to be a troopship that can take some hits and keep going. It's better than the Chimera in that regard, 8" sig and 4+ armour isn't a good combination for an objective ship.


I forget, does Hawk do only one show-only model per year? Will they be selling the Athens and Scorpion at, say, Gencon, or will they be doing something else, or are these only for Salute?

So what stops fast movers from being taken down by missile halos? Do they just fly low?

I imagine their own missile halos as well as their speed, maneuverability, anti radar detection and the occasional reality that missile halos aren't everywhere. Seraphims would be the only fast movers that would really struggle against missile halos in my mind.

Cruise missiles are faster and harder to detect than fast movers, and could come with active countermeasures of their own. It could be that fast movers are just more economical than cruise missiles proofed against missile halos, since they can be reused and their pilots can keep flying even when their sensors get fried by a laser.

Back from Salute. UCM and Scourge BC resin prototypes were on display.

Akuma on the left and Perth on the right.

In the background were some parts you use to make the others, but it was kind of difficult to see how they fitted in.

Overall, I wasn't completely underwhelmed, and I did like the Scourge one having an internal hole running through it, but I wasn't completely amazed.
But then again, the stats on the Perth, those stats.

I think they're robust enough to warrant actual point defense installation attention instead of the ambient thing.

They'd fly low to avoid that.

>the single-seat fighter lives in a hallowed boundary
>where the descending orbital PD meets the rising flak

Now THAT is destined for an "evil space orca" paint job.

>that beautiful style with the 4 engines

Those are gorgeous. As a UCM player, I'm not sure how I feel yet about the 4-engine stack, but I'm sure I'll come to love it soon enough. I'm looking forward to seeing the PHR designs,

And did anyone else notice the third nose among the battlecruiser parts in the pile behind the Akuma? Maybe each battlecruiser is getting a third design?

I'm 99% sure that was just another Akuma nose part.

There's three nose-part pieces all lined up there, and the completed model gives me no indication that it's just another hull piece. On top of that, I could be wrong but it looks like there's a furnace cannon or some sort of large weapon mounted on the middle nose that isn't part of the Banshee's profile.

are you sure its not the torpedo they carry?

Keep seeing these threads, models and art look neat. Anyone want to give me the quick and dirty on the game?

Gonna start downloading those pdfs and reading through.

Now that you mention it, that's probably it. I had completely forgotten the Manticore/Banshee had a torpedo, and didn't think it was just a double to show the underside of the hull.

Dropzone is 10mm urban(mostly) ground combat and Dropfleet is fleet combat across orbital layers, both are built around the need to deliver ground troops to their objectives using transports.

In Dropzone, most units can't move very far unless they catch a ride on one of their compatible dropships and thus positioning and watching AA fire lanes are really important.
In Dropfleet, your tiny and poorly armed troop carriers have to make it into position over cities and dive to atmosphere in order to deploy said dropships before the big boy cruisers can delete them.

At the moment, the fluff is centered on the UCM (militaristic human exiles driven from their core worlds by bodysnatching alien invaders) carrying out their civilization-wide assault on the Scourge (bodysnatching alien invaders with an unhealthy love for violence and weaponized plasma squatting on core human worlds) while the other three factions play out selfish gambits around them.

In-game fluff: Long ago, humanity (in grey) was introduced to a bunch of resource rich worlds called the Cradle Worlds by the Shaltari (in orange). 160 years ago, a super-powerful AI the size of a tennis ball landed on Earth and told humanity that in 1 year's time a great doom would wipe out humanity. Fast forward a year, and part of the human race took the AI's advice, gathered at a jump-point it designated for them, and then kicked the Earth Administrative Authority's ass on the way out because the EAA tried to stop them from leaving. A few days later the Scourge arrived (in purple), and invaded Earth and all of the Cradle worlds with massive fleets that the EAA had no hope of stopping. Only a tiny bit of the populations of these worlds escaped to the outer colonies, since the Scourge either didn't have the jump coordinates, or were too busy nomming all the other worlds.

Modern day, the United Colonies of Man have launched a massive campaign to retake the Cradle Worlds and eventually Earth. The part of humanity that left with the AI returned as the Post Human Republic (in white), and while the UCM and PHR aren't openly hostile, they're incredibly distrustful of one another, and frequently get into fights. By now, the UCM has effectively reclaimed two of the Cradle World systems, is working on two more, have their eyes on the other three+Earth, and are now in the process of repelling Scourge counter attacks on Colonial systems. Meanwhile, the PHR are constantly working towards some unknown goal, though they generally stay out of the UCM's way. The goals of the various Shaltari tribal factions are also unknown, but it tends to involve raiding all three other groups and generally being party-crashers.

SALUTE loot bagged and tagged. I've got three cruiser sprues to build (as my frigates are push-fit and the battleship's being magnetised by a friend). One will be a Heavy (so a Moscow or St. Pete), and another miiight be a Seattle. For reference, I have:
- A Berlin
- A Seattle
- A SanFran
- Two Saratogas (New Cairos)
- Undecided Heavy Cruiser
- Undecided Cruiser (Probably a second Seattle)
- Undecided Cruiser


The second Seattle is entirely your call. For the third cruiser, I'd personally go for another Berlin, but it's also hard to go wrong with the general purpose Rio.

If the PHR Battlecruisers are homeworld-esque vertical ships, or at least more vertical, I'm going to cry with delight.

Not sure how much I like the Perth. I'd be happier if the laser was nestled in the center, like the Saratoga. It's got a biiiit too much of a gap perhaps. Engine and turrets look great though.

I think the Perth is really going to be outshined visually by the Johannesburg. Having a big row of guns where the laser goes is going to look pretty good.

It's hard to say that this point, I couldn't really see where the fighter hangars were.

The two possibilities I can think of are earlier style 'wing' hangar bays (which might be mounted where the side cannons are), or placing the launch bays along the lower hull New York style.

Hopefully we'll get official pictures on monday.

>Gee Perth, how come your shipwright lets you have FOUR engines?

What's wrong with that Tau?

Oh, the wit

I adore that Scourge battlecruiser. Likely because it has a very similar profile as the PHR battleship, which is my favorite model.

Went with Second Seattle. Third cruiser ended up as a Madrid, as both the heavy cruiser and battleship ended up being magnetised by a friend who knows his way around a drill, and I'll need bombardment for when I don't bring the Tokyo.

Scourge 2x - 1053pts
Scourge - 10 launch assets

SR15 Flag battlegroup (260pts)
1 x Daemon - 260pts - S
+ Fleet Enslaver (20pts, 2AV)

SR5 Line battlegroup (110pts)
1 x Ifrit - 110pts - M

SR12 Line battlegroup (344pts)
1 x Hydra - 140pts - M
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L
1 x Hydra - 140pts - M

SR7 Pathfinder battlegroup (169pts)
1 x Wyvern - 105pts - M
2 x Gargoyle - 64pts - L

SR5 Pathfinder battlegroup (150pts)
2 x Harpy - 84pts - L
3 x Nickar - 66pts - L

197 points left. What do I get?

Cavebreaker's being called in to deal with a bunch of Resistance that pushed the Scourge off a planet they want. How's this look for a semi-narrative list for him vs. Resistance with occasional PHR backup?

Chimera and three Nickars.

You seem to have forgotten the fifth rule of Scourge warfare: Invaders belong in the trash.

I only own two Intruder Alphas at the moment; further, I want to have more than 2 stands in a squad so I can try to go toe to toe with resistance fighters.

Cavebreaker seems like an unsubtle sort, who'd want each dedicated squad to be able to take out its opposite number. This is equally impossible for dropships and invaders, but at the least the Warriors can.

I have a scourge starter set assembled (default, muh shenlong was a mistake) and a second scourge starter set, not assembled, a BB, and a nickar pack. I could do 6 Nickars, however, I'd kind of like to not assemble all three of my undone cruisers. I have someone who might be able to sell me a basilisk conversion kit.

Are harpies much good? Should I assemble two more for a 4x squadron? Or should I go for two djins and stick them with the wyvern, or something?

Harpies are good flankers, but they and djinn both have a magical number, that being 3. While they can both do okay with only 2, they won't be the rockstars they really could be with a third band member.
I usually rock my djinn with a pair of strix (or wyvern if i run it), but they're also very effective as part of a pathfinder BG that's got as low an SR as you can manage. It gives them some nasty alpha strike potential if they can go first, giving you a chance to give them an effective engagement range of the whole goddamn table.

I have 2x harpy, 2x gargoyle, and 4x unassembled frigates.

I assume at least two of those need to become +2 gargoyles, which means my only real option seems to be more harpies. 4 harpies for flanking, a wyvern for smashing someone's face in, an ifrit and two hydras as general xeno-relations outreach, and a Daemon for rip-and-tear guns?

Hopefully full cloak nerfs will come and Shenlong will be an option again. It's a distinct possibility, Hawk seems dedicated to the balance and Akumas are a pretty obvious offender there.

Honestly I like to run Scourge frigates alone mostly, they work very differently to the cruisers thanks to atmos diving. Harpies, Djinns, Chars and Scyllas are all best in groups of 3-4 in my experience, 2 isn't really enough to do that much and 5 is where diminishing returns really start.

>the fifth rule of Scourge warfare
What are the first four?

>#1: Be aggressive, b-e aggressive!
>#2: Always appreciate your dirt cheap scouts
>#3: Never be afraid to hide like a coward
>#4: Corsairs belong in the trash

1) Never be caught in open ground
2) Aged Ones belong in the nursing home
3) Corsairs are only good for drawing AA fire
4) Do not expect the Desolator to survive

More pictures from the Hawk forums and BoW, as well as a video.

>that kid in the lower right at 3:50


>UCM get a command card that gives +1 attacks to all mass drivers in a battlegroup
>PHR get hacking of some sort
>Shaltari are annoying as ever
>Scourge get a command card that shuffles your opponent's strategy deck








shuffling your strategy deck is mean.

speaking of strategy decks, i wonder how difficult it would be to homebrew up some variant version of DZC with strategy decks, maybe give units a SR of 1 per, or a rating of 1 per DP, just for fun to break up the normal pace of play?

Holy cow, Dave's extra enthusiastic today. Either Hawk's booth setup came together easier this year, or post-release Dropfleet was drawing a crowd.

>that Scourge torpedo

>faction logo shirts
Webstore when? Feed me merch, Dave.

I just noticed the launch deck for the Johannesburg class, along the top of the lower hull just like my japanese animes. Now the only question is how the guns will be mounted, since it doesn't seem to have the terraced row on the underside like the Atlantis

Looks like you could have 2 on top of the lower hull and 2 underneath.

Anyone got spoilers for the command decks? They seem much more relevant than the Dropzone ones.

We don't know much else besides , but there was talk of a card that allowed UCM to fire burnthrough weapons twice.

It is unknown if this referred to a single weapon system, a single ship, a group, or an entire battlegroup.


Firing a burnthrough twice had better damage the firing ship or something. Double-tapping with one of the most powerful weapons in the game is--- crazy good.

>WF St.Pete double taps
>cleaves a Heracles in half
>with damage to spare

That'd just be fucking rude. In theory, double burnthrough can already sink a ship from full health. Double tap just means that once a game you can make SURE you killed the bastard if crippling didn't finish the job already.

>That'd just be fucking rude. In theory, double burnthrough can already sink a ship from full health.
Not necessarily; even a WF Pete will do, at max, 12 damage.
That's enough to cripple a PHR BB for sure, but you still have 10 more damage to go through to make sure it's dead, without relying on orbital decay.

That's at least 3 Reactor Overloads, followed by Energy Surges, Armour Cracked, Hull Breach, Engines Disabled, Weapons Offline, or another Reactor Overload.

There's also a fire, but that's not guaranteed to do one damage.

Basically, even if the Pete does 12 damage, you only have a 0.091% chance to cripple your way through the rest of that damage. PHR BBs are tanky as FUARK

He's talking about in the case of a card that lets you fire twice. IE, 24 damage from burnthroughs.

Pretty sure that user was specifically referring to
>double burnthrough can already sink a ship from full health
which while technically true, has an incredibly low chance of happening.

I mean, *A* ship, not the ship or any ship.

Yeah, that's what we were already talking about. Doubletap Doubleburnthrough is 24 damage.

On the other hand, his statement "In theory, double burnthrough can already sink a ship from full health" doesn't really mean all that much. Technically speaking, any weapon that can surpass the crippling damage threshold for a given ship could kill it in a single firing.

For example, it's entirely possible for a single Djinn to destroy a non-PHR BB through crippling cascade (1 damage from occulus rays, 8 from plasma storm, the rest from crippling effects)

Even more amazingly, it's possible for a Taipei to do the same to a PHR BB (1 from 1x 2200, 10 from Piranha Missiles)

Why bother saying it, then? The Pete's double burnthrough is already amazingly mean, but the best it can hope for in terms of an "auto-kill" would be Heavy Cruisers; it's not necessarily going to get the full 12 damage every time, mind you.

You're forgetting the wing guns though.

Ah, true, fair point. Including those, I would say that a WF Pete would have a reasonable chance of popping a battlecruiser, as well as even a non-PHR BB.

PHR BB's are still firmly in the range of "miraculous kill", however.

Ah. Well in that case it doesn't mean anything. Literally any weapon in the game can sink a ship from full health, provided that ship is a Glass. A frigate is a very different beast to a cruiser, which is very different to a battleship.

Weren't Petes buffed to Burnthrough 8 recently? Or is that just in experimental at the moment? I know someone put up the PDF about it a few threads ago, but being the idiot I am I didn't bother saving it.

And even without that, I think it's worth bearing in mind that a WF St. Pete will destroy or horribly maul anything short of a BB in a single round of shooting (that is, unless you get abysmal rolls). This is before you even consider the theoretical 'Double Tap' command card, which extends its threat range to nearly every ship in the game.

>Weren't Petes buffed to Burnthrough 8 recently? Or is that just in experimental at the moment?
Only if it's firing a single laser, and yes.

And even without that, I think it's worth bearing in mind that a WF St. Pete will destroy or horribly maul anything short of a BB in a single round of shooting (that is, unless you get abysmal rolls). This is before you even consider the theoretical 'Double Tap' command card, which extends its threat range to nearly every ship in the game.
Right, this is what this entire discussion has been about, the fact that a doubletap WF Pete can potentially destroy a PHR BB in one activation, without crippling damage.


How are people finding the Corvettes so far? I haven't played in a whiiiiiile but having snapped up a battleship, 2 Saratogas and some Santiagos I'm eager to use them to give the jellies a good kicking.

I'm finding it hard to not stuff 6 Santiagos into every list because they're just so cheap. Currently tossing up whether to run 2 groups of 3 or 1 group of 6. 2x3 gives more coverage, but less likelyhood of securing a carrier kill. Annoyingly I'm kinda leaning towards 4 being the best number of a squadron because 4 hits/2 crits on average dice will probably sink most strike carriers.

Keep in mind my opinion is mostly built on theory crafting, but I think the corvettes are really strong. It'd be perfectly reasonable to run up to 2 groups of 4 like you were thinking, even if it would be annoying to buy a new pack just for 2 more. I'd suggest kitbashing 2 together from UCM frigate and cruiser bits, to save a bit of money. That's just my thought though.

>How are people finding the Corvettes so far?
Necessary. They're good for taking out strike carriers and other corvettes, and kind of shit at everything else. Can be used as diet Taipeis in a pinch, but that's not what they're meant for and it shows.

2 groups of 3 is better than one big pack. It's good to be able to split up your forces, and 3 is roughly enough to take out a single non-PHR strike carrier per turn, provided crippling rolls go your way. Groups of 4 are also valid though, it gives you a little more surety.

Honestly, while trying to nail a killing blow in one round of shooting is ideal, two packs of three is usually enough to take down a SC in a round or two. Unless you're running Shaltari, you're going to be stuck with two packs of three anyway (1-3 group size), and you can then choose to maneuver them into a lump when there's a SC you want to pop, or split them apart if you've got enemy corvettes to engage (which is likely, given how popular they're becoming)

I'll try running them 2x3 and see how it goes. Planning on taking this list for a spin sometime over the next week.

UCM - 12 launch assets

SR17 Flag battlegroup (324pts)
1 x New York - 260pts - S
+ UCM Captain (20pts, 2AV)
2 x Jakarta - 64pts - L

SR12 Line battlegroup (307pts)
1 x San Francisco - 111pts - M
1 x Seattle - 132pts - M
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR12 Line battlegroup (307pts)
1 x San Francisco - 111pts - M
1 x Seattle - 132pts - M
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR10 Line battlegroup (176pts)
2 x New Cairo - 176pts - M

SR9 Pathfinder battlegroup (300pts)
6 x Taipei - 234pts - L
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (66pts)
3 x Santiago - 66pts - L

Interested in any thoughts, opinions or chastisements. Going to be playing Scourge. The 6 Taipei group exists because I loathe strix and 6 taipeis will activate first and 3 *should* kill a Strix on average dice.

Eh, I'd personally drop the Nork, fampai. UCM BB's are "fine", but the Nork is the least "fine" out of the bunch.

Two Seattles is more than enough to contest void superiority with the Scourge, unless he's brought 3 Hydra.

I'd also try to work it out so that the Taipei are on their lonesome; maybe move one of the Nawlins groups to the Santiago BG, and move the other Santiagos to that line?

I'm also a bit iffy on 2 Sanfrans 4 Nawlins, I personally feel that 1-6 is much better.

Not sure about the heavy Sanfran reliance, though with all those fighters and Jakartas for PD I guess it could work out. Be aware that your opponent will be gunning for them, you may have to prioritize Djinns over Gargoyles with your corvettes.

On a more chastising note, get Limas you fuck. They're the most important ships in a UCM fleet.

Seems a smidge light in the firepower department to me, but then again, I usually don't take many launch assets either. I also usually stick to one SanFran and use the extra firepower to fuck up their troopships first, but that's just a personal choice.

Seems pretty well rounded otherwise, even with the purpose-made Strix hunting squadron. Since at the end of the day, 6 Taipei's will fuck anything they survive long enough to engage with so many missiles Macross would personally leave /m/ just to rub one out in its honor.