Tyranid vs

Anyone familiar with >pic related?
How would MorningLightMountain fare against, say, a small tyranid hive fleet?

In how large forces do the BETA actually attack in? Because the Tyranids are known to blanket entire valleys and continents in bio-constructs.

As well, I've been trying to look up the size of creatures like Carnifexes and apparently it's 4.5 meters. But when I see actual artwork of them they seem much larger.

Depends greatly on how willing the BETA are to make use of their g-elements instead of shooting that stuff into space. They only tend to make use of it when they are in actual danger of being trumped. We don't know how out there G-elements can really get though.

While biological, BETA behave as machines. They don't eat or breathe and have periodical recharges from Reactors. The BETA has incredible hardyness.They can survive in deep space and walk on the cailings of oceans.
They are highly resistant to poisons and viruses. Humanity's attempts to create biological weapons against the BETA all failed.
Most of them lack senses and rely on commands from BETA who are higher on the command chain to direct them.

Also BETA are really fucking big, Pic related is among the smallest of the BETA and it dwarfs a tank. BETA hives spawn the larger variants by the hundreds of thousands depending on how developed they are.

Very complicated fight.

Pic related is the size difference between BETA types.

>eye lasers
>15 on the Moh's scale
This is getting ridiculous.

Bump for interest.

How many nids can the mimic army realistically defeat?

What show is this?

This might be one of those cases of "insanely over-powered swarm creatures that are in one of those animes that I've never seen before."

MorningLight had atomics, and is even more willing than the Imperium to sacrifice elements of it's domain once it figures out the Tyranids need biomass. I see it winning quite handily.

>I'd say about 7, genestealer is going to be covored in green melt juice after *RIP AND TEAR*
depends. genestealers (and other nids) often have xenomorph style acid blood and would likely be as resistant as they at to melting.

pretty well.
their spaceships have the advantage in size, firepower, range and numbers, as well as the nature of the normadic hivefleets renders SW normal logistical advantages moot. There's no supply lines to attack or enemy planets invade.

if you can't beat a hivefleet in orbit your planet is fucked.

oh and the more alien friendly nature of societies is going to make things really easy for genestealer cults to fuck things up even more for the defenders.

how big are these atomics.

If they're not significantly bigger than our real ones they're not going to cut it.
Even our biggest nukes are still 4 or 5 orders of magnitude less powerful than the kind of firepower 40k warships typically exchange.

Beta's get fucked over, simply due to their size. Once the first assault fails, the Tyranids begin to flood the planet with spores and acidic compounds to weaken the BETA. Than, they flood the planet with shit tons of Parasites and Rippers, along with multitudes of long ranged bioforms. The larger BETA get their armor corroded, and sink into pits dug by the Nids. The smaller are torn apart by Rippers and parasites.

Could Nids defend themselves against a Grey Goo style nanomachine swarm?

What if you zapped them with a Dr Device?

Chamber did nothing wrong.

>Could Nids defend themselves against a Grey Goo style nanomachine swarm?
protentially

depends just how fast the grey goo goos things, tyranids are known to be capable with nanoscale "combat". Psychic ability would also give them a feasible way to contain the goo.

They fight against Necrons on occasion, but they're known to avoid such things in general since machines are troublesome for little biomass gain.

That said, on Octarius, there's microscopic warfare going on between Ork Spores and Tyranid micro-ogranisms. Theoretically Nids should be able to just make a biological version of grey goo to combat it.

A Dr Device is basically a Gauss Flayer cranked to 11, I suppose in theory you could shield things from it by coating things in Iron if my memory of how it works is correct since it wouldn't be able to affect it.

Since I like to think I'm pretty well versed on hive-mind aliens, I'll take a stab at this.

>How many xenomorphs would it take to down a genestealer? Or perhaps a warrior?
Xenomorphs are perhaps THE most adaptable of 3 races which you went into. Unlike what one of the other posters said, there absolutely are Xenomorphs that have long range attacks, but those are encountered less in the media we see them because the common Xenomorphs we see are all spawned from humans. So, this would depend on the specific type of Xenomorph you're referring to. Since you didn't specify, I'll assume you mean the Warrior type as those are the most common. Warriors would likely fall pretty quickly to a genestealer, but their caustic blood would likely kill the genestealer as well. Warriors would stand no chance against a Tyranid warrior, assuming the warrior had ranged weapons. Otherwise their blood would inflict serious wounds, perhaps killing the warrior.

>How many zergling to down a warrior?
Spawn more overlords

Zergling vs Hormagaunt?
Others have covered this pretty well. Zerglings are simply more adaptable, and I would argue spawn in greater numbers.

>How many Xeno queens to take down a hive tyrant?
The chances that a Queen takes down a hive tyrant is pretty small. The hive tyrant has superior weaponry and likely can fly. That's pretty much it. If it's a ground pounding melee tyrant, than the queen might be able to do some damage in her death throes with her blood, but even that will probably be minimal to a tyrant.

A slightly more interesting fight would be a Carnifex vs Ultralisk vs Crusher Xeno. All are roughly the same height with the crusher being the smallest at around 4m, All have similar roles - large tanky-ish creatures that are exceedingly hard to kill. At first, the Carnifex would seem to have the upper hand due to its ability to use/have ranged weapons. However, the Ultralisk and Crusher both have special adaptations that diminish...

that and psychic force field hax can probably block it.

the effectiveness of ranged weapons. The Crusher is shown to be able to completely negate small arms fire, and Ultralisks have been shown to easily withstand swaths of firepower from terran tanks. So this fight would have to go to melee, where the Ultralisk is the clear winner. The Ultralisk has razor-sharp tusks that would carve through a Carnifex or Crusher, and regenerative abilities that would make the Crushers acidic blood be a small worry at best.

Overall, out of the three species, I'd say that Zerg are overall the strongest, due to their rapid adaptability, with the Tyranids being a very close second. Zerg have shown the ability to infiltrate terran society at least to the extent that genestealers are capable of. Their base units have more adpatations, but overall they lack the range of Tyranids but have greater numbers. Synapse creatures must stay relatively close to the units they're commanding, but cerebrates are able to command creatures across the entire planet - and are nearly impossible to kill without special precautions. Xenomorphs fall short in most areas, lacking the military capability and organization that the other two have, but are on par with the Zerg in terms of adaptability - perhaps more so as by their very nature they are perfectly adapted to the environment in which they spawn. If Xenos were to every organize militarily, they might actually be a greater threat than either of the other two, but their animal intelligence prevents that.

>but overall they lack the range of Tyranids but have greater numbers.
hardly. a typical tyranid invasion is billions of individual organisms.

they're lacking in scale, an ultralisk is about as big as zerg get. But utterly dwarfed by biotitans that the zerg have no real counter for.

Reminder that pic related would be an excellent solution to the Tyranids

A Carnifex has quite remarkable durability and some are capable of similar degrees of regeneration. This isn't represented well on the tabletop, but in fluff they're basically living tanks that can survive even orbital bombardments in some instances.

Tyranids also deploy in absolutely stupid numbers. While Zerglings might be better units overall, Tyranids can afford to just spam Termagaunts to an insane degree.

I think on an individual organism basis Zerg have big advantages, but as a whole Tyranids have more numbers and ranged weaponry, as well as psychic abilities to further mess things up.

Also, what said. Tyranids can afford to field dozens of giant sand-worms that are taller than buildings, and that's still towards the middle of their unit sizes.

Aren't tyranid biotitans pitifully small compared to ultralisks? Iirc heirotitans are a measly 15 meters tall and way thinner than lisks

Well, if this scale is anything to go by, I would peg an Ultralisk at a little over half the height of an Imperial knight titan, which is about how large Trygons are tip to tail.

A Ultralisk actually seems pretty similar in size to a Heirodrule, which puts it at the lower end as far as Tyranid Bio-titans go. The Heirophant might also be spindly, but it's still going to absolutely tower over the thing and has quite a number of ranged weapons.

Bad meme from SC wankers who use the ultralisk in the HoTS cinematic as the standard size for all of them. It is generally agreed that was an omegalisk and way bigger than usual, this picture is more accurate

Kay, I'll bite, sauce?

'nids vs the flood?

Tyranids can easily field the same number of units, possibly more, but that really can be a debate. Typically you see them in smaller waves, but they're capable of turning a planet black with their numbers. Zerg also have the capability of fielding massive sized units - the leviathan is magnitudes larger than a battlecruiser which is 500+ meters long, The omegalisk should be around 30 meters tall, assuming that SC marines and 40k marines are approximately the same height. Who knows how big nydus worms actually are - they span entire planets. Zerg have massive sized units to field, but it's not efficient for them to do so. The biggest advantage the Tyranids have in the long run is the ability to regenerate their numbers using biomatter. Zerg don't really have such an ability, so in a prolonged war of attrition Tyranids would come out ahead, strictly for that reason.

Keep in mind that Zerg while don't specifically have psychic abilities (with the exception of Kerrigan who had them because she was a ghost, and cerebrates who are the will of the overlord), they do have biological attacks that aren't unlike psychic abilities - infestors ability to mind control, queens ability to rapidly heal wounds to units, defilers, vipers, overlords, etc... And cerebrates/overlords/kerrigan are pretty much immune to non-damage psychic attacks, the rest of the swarm doesn't have enough of a mind to effect.

Overall, I'm still giving it to zerg. If 40k ever unfucked monstrous creatures (giving them Invul saves instead of regular armor saves) then it might swing over to the 'nids.

Ultralisks are around 5 meters tall, so no, they're still small compared to a biotitan. However, they are also the smallest strain of the ultralisk gene - brutalisks are around 15m tall, and omegalisk is around 30.

Shit, meant to say that Zerg can field the same number of units in the first sentence. Anyway, the use of psi-emitters shows how staggering the Zerg numbers can really be.

>Beta's get fucked over, simply due to their size.

Any they don't simply trample over the nid battlelines because?

>the Tyranids begin to flood the planet with spores.

Hives bury themselves. if you wanted to scour them from orbit. You would have to punch through 4 kilometers of crust in order to reach the important stuff while avoiding AA fire from pic related.

>And acidic compounds.

How are they producing that much acid?

>Than, they flood the planet with shit tons of Parasites and Ripper.

If things on the battlefield do indeed get to hot the beta can still just hunker themselves down in the hives and macro.

>along with multitudes of long ranged bioforms.

What is that supposed to accomplish? Anything substantial is just going to get shot down by lasers. And the beta fought modern+ humans on an even-ish footing anyway.
>The larger BETA get their armor corroded, and sink into pits dug by the Nids.

I think your main failing point is that you don't seem to reallize the scale of all beta units.

To put BETAs into perspective is to imagine Starship Troopers, But replace the normal bugs with Destroyer/Grappler Class, add laser classes and use Fort class to replace tanker bugs and then increase their relative size to that of 's comparison. The red things are their gaunt equivalents and they're bigger then RL tanks.

Gauging from tabletop effectiveness is tricky business, especially if you only count current rules instead of previous ones. After all, older Nids MCs had easier access to invuln saves and regeneration to make them insanely durable.

>so in a prolonged war of attrition Tyranids would come out ahead

This is why I feel Tyranids would win. Prolonged war of attrition is their big thing. They don't really care if you rush them with Zerglings, since they'll just send something in to mop up the pieces and try again.

Almost any battle against Tyranids basically devolves into a siege defense to hold them back as they steadily try and figure out how to out-adapt you.

With how Tyranids also make use of bio-artillery and having more extensive guns, the Zerg are going to be at a big disadvantage.

You're missing the strategy that he's saying. The Tyranids are just going to blanket the planet in microscopic spores. It doesn't matter how big the Beta's are. That's just going to start the process of Tyranid terraforming. The spores create spawning pools all over the place that start making Rippers, which are ridiculously numerous but about the size of a garden snake at best.

Then, you get all those tiny poisonous and acidic things that just slowly wear down these huge guys. Once they're planet side the Rippers can just slowly burrow their way underground as well.

Nothing big enough to shoot. Impossible to really crush effectively since it's just and endless number of tiny worms. Death by 1000 cuts.

I'd easily give the fleet battles to the Empire, and I also wouldn't put it past them to just Base Delta Zero an infested planet much the same way that the Imperium uses Exterminatus. While officially a measure of last resort, there's plenty of examples in canon of giving a BDZ that is otherwise only suspected to be an Imperial atrocity since a planet is just cracked with no survivors or explanation. Especially if they've got the Death Star operational, they'd lose on the ground and win in space. Plus there's the massive different in speed of their ships.

I don't know. The Tyranids don't do well against fire, acid, stuff that basically destroys biomatter, which the Zerg have a decent bit of. The Zerg also have plenty of artillery - most of it orbital, but not all of it. It would be a tough fight, no doubt - I think the zerg would have a decent chance of outright destroying the tyranids without them being able to recover. If they didn't though the Tyranids definitely win in a war of attrition.

>fire
>acid
>stuff that destroys biomatter

Unless it literally disintigrates it, the Tyranids can still make use of it. They have their own organisms that make use of Fire and Acid that are literally designed to eat things.

Ashes still contain carbon after all.

Aside from that, a decapitation strike is a tall order. Also depends on how Zerg ships function in space combat.

Another thing to consider is the Tyranids could pull a Jormungander and focus entirely on burrowing organisms like Ravagers, Mawlocs, and Trygons. Helps against artillery a great deal and allows them to regain strength in a stealthy way.

Except such a tactic wouldn't work on zerg since they are at least AS capable underground as they are on top of it.

You'll have to explain to me how these big guys with their giant head/torsos/necks and big flat elephant feet are supposed to retain effectiveness underground.

The Brutalisk I can see burrowing, but Zerg don't seem that specialized in underground combat, at least not enough to stomp out Tyranids underground like they need to.

Going entirely by game mechanics, because none of the non-zerg races do anything underground as far as i'm aware so the lore is non-existent, roaches move FASTER and heal at rapid speed while underground, and lurkers are basically underground tunneling spiders with giant spikes. Plus, every one of their ground units can burrow to some extent.

One of the bigger things is that, in a prolonged engagement, both species would just keep evolving and consuming each other indefinitely, unless either could instantly wipe the other from a planet.

Hell, infested terran have been seen to detonate for nearly as much damage as a Nuke, as well as shoot their guns just fine. Infested Protoss become hybrids, which have super psionic power and are tougher than anything else around in SC. Imagine infested Tyranids.

>Going entirely by game mechanics
If we're using game mechanics, tyranids get absolutely wrecked with their pitiful saves, shitty psychic powers and horrible synapse range

What the fuck else do you want? There IS NO LORE specific to underground combat for the setting. The closes you get is the mechanics of burrow move, roach heal, and lurkers attacking underground, and a brief description of what those units are. I didn't argue for a comparison between game mechanics, but simply used them to demonstrate the only information provided on the topic at all.

It's not like i started rambling about supply, unit costs, specific numbers or anything. Just that those mechanics exist.

But sperge more.

If the nids are suddenly allowed to use a hive fleet's worth a ships aggainst a single group of BETA hives it becomes only fair that the beta can start applying a larger number of starting forces as well.

>The Tyranids are just going to blanket the planet in microscopic spores. It doesn't matter how big the Beta's are. That's just going to start the process of Tyranid terraforming.

Muv luv humans (really dang advanced version of earth) tried using bioweapons in the past and it was a resounding failure.

Yes nids would be better at using such weapons but it's a precedent that shouldn't be disregarded.

No beta varaint eats, drinks, breathes, excretes or reproduces and they are presumably all airtight in some fashion. Being able survive in deep space, the artic, iradiatid wastelands, and on the ocean floor says something of their general hardiness.

>The spores create spawning pools all over the place that start making Rippers.

Hide inside the hive and keep mining out the planet, sends hordes out to go squish the spawning pools or use g-elements to do something crazy if at all possible. Beta hives are made of the same stuff destroyer-class armour is made of (15 on the mohs scale) They can just construct smaller creatures to fight the rippers if they are so much of an issue.

tyranids have the advantage of ranged weapons and a totally hax immune system that can probably deal with the flood (theyre known to have resisted exterminatus teir virus bombs and nurgles magic deamon plauges).

though in the end it'd probably be a case of mutal absorption and a merging of the hiveminds into an even more hax tyranid-flood combo.

>I'd easily give the fleet battles to the Empire
SW firepower doesn't quite ad up to enough to win without a massive bunbers advantage (that they won't have against a whole hivefleet). Most calcs put the energy levels of something like a star Destroyer is magaton yeild equivalent. Tyranid ships are pretty much on equal terms with similarly sized imperial vessels that normally rate in at 3 or 4 magnitudes greater energy levels.

normally vs 40k the SW verse wins because its superior ftl lets them pick all their battles and harrass supply lines and the like avoiding the straight up fight they can't likely win.
Fighting against nids specifically you can't do that though, the hivefleet moves together as one force. There's no supply lines to break or backworlds to harass or small fleet groups to ambush with overwhelming numbers.

the whole fleet shows up at your planet and you have to beat it head on in orbit quickly or your planet is doomed.

>hive fleet's worth a ships aggainst a single group of BETA hives it becomes only fair that the beta can start applying a larger number of starting forces as well.
a hivefleet is only a single starting force.

Sorry to break your anime power fantasy, but nids can outplay nurgle on the bioweapon war.

Plus, if they do not eat, drink, breathe and reproduce, they are not relevant to the discussion. (and nids survive in their same condition despite being living)

Also, since you weaboos can't seem to learn anything beside what is spewed by your latest fotm anime, for starter the mohs scale is about hardiness, not resistance. Porcelain is a 7 on mohs scale. Then, the mohs scale has not a logical progression. Corundum (9) is twice as hard as topaz (8). Diamond (10) is 4 times as hard as corundum.

Nids also have tunneler creatures whose job is to fucking eat planetary cores

>But nids can outplay nurgle on the bioweapon war.

The precedent so far is that muv-luv humanity's attempts at bioweapons had been completly ineffective. These are the same humanity that had a moon colony in 60s and nukes that turned alaska into an island.

>the mohs scale is about hardiness, not resistance. Porcelain is a 7 on mohs scale. Then, the mohs scale has not a logical progression.

We see beta armour bounce tank rounds early in the show and the actual parts of the hive that matter are kilometres underground.

>Plus, if they do not eat, drink, breathe and reproduce, they are not relevant to the discussion.

They are birthed inside pic related.

>and nids survive in their same condition despite being living.

Not without having specific adaptions for such environments. On an ice planet the first waves of nid units froze to death and subsequent waves were given special adaptions to trump it. Beta are a remarkably hardy lot. Beta creatures without any adaptions to their anatomy can seemingly survive just dandily in any envirment.

>Nids also have tunneler creatures whose job is to fucking eat planetary cores.

1. They leave planets as drained husks. They do a little bit of that but they are not nearly as thorough as you are implying.

2. Beta 'do' strip planets whole but they don't use most of the materials they find. They fire the majority of what they collect/convert into space. We never see them fight at their full potential and an intrusion into their hive directly would prompt the use of their g-element stockpiles in battle.

(Forgot picture)

I gotta chime in on the Bioweapons front here...Because making moon colonies and having nuclear weapons do not make you experts in biowarfare. However, creating things like the Life-eater virus or being the god of plagues, diseases and all that good stuff does.

The 'Nids can and do manage both an exterminatus grade bioweapon and daemonic plagues. Say what you want, but they are very proficient in this area.

Depends on Death Star

A Xenomorph drone is A 300lb armoured biomechanical machine that derives its strength from hydraulics its strong enough to rip a human or genestealer hybrid in half if it so chooses.

A warrior is 8 feet (Not including tail) 400+ lbs of heavy armored, super strong bug ninja.

It can smash its way through spaceship bulkhead doors, casually pick up and handle a 300lb marine and all his gear like he was a large stuffed toy, is highly resistant to small caliber weapons. (Marines arent toting small caliber and even the caste above warriors the praetorian shrugs off their line weapons like the warrior shrugs off lesser weapons.)

Im not saying Nids would job to Xenos overall
they wouldnt, but as far as Genestealers vs Xenos anything above warrior gets pretty stompy in favor of the Xenos.

Theyre really more comparable to the nids proper, a Xenos warrior is going to be more like a Nid warrior or a Lictor in stature than a Genestealer.

5 Drones
3 Runners
2 Warriors
1- of anything above that (Praetorians, Razor Claws, Predalien.)

The deathstar is really of little use against nids, they don't have planets of their own.

Sure you could blow up a planet while they're feeding, but you'd need to gain orbital superiority to use it which would require you to already defeat the hivelfeet before you can use the death star.

Looks like it's something called Muv-Luv

A dumb franchise about cute anime girls, mechas, and gruesome deaths by silly and freudian extraterestrial monsters.

Nids have shit FTL and can be fought in deep space. Imperial Navy beats Nid Navy regularly.

Nids vs worm's entity duo before shedding all their shards.

>They leave planets as drained husks. They do a little bit of that but they are not nearly as thorough as you are implying.

They won't literally mine a planet hollow, but if say a species lives in an underground cave system or attempted to make a vault to wait it out, the Tyranids will hunt them down with burrower organisms until they've been found and consumed. They're primarily occupied with harvesting organic material, and from what you've said while pretty much behaving exactly like machines, they still are organic at least. I don't see Tyranids just harvesting a planet while ignoring multiple kilometer-sized organic hives underground.

>an intrusion into their hive directly would prompt the use of their g-element stockpiles in battle

Can you please explain to us what g-element even is because a majority of us have never seen this show before.

>The entities burn as hot as any star, with their sheer mass, their scale, the power they wield.

>When they were too far away to see one another, they communicated, and each message was enormous and violent in scope, expressed with the energy of a star going supernova.

>The entity is approaching the galaxy cluster in question now, and it sees its counterpart doing the same,

Their perception is pretty good in canon seeing how it ran a matrix-like simulation of a planet from outside the galaxy cluster.

Nids get fucking rekt.

>Others have covered this pretty well. Zerglings are simply more adaptable, and I would argue spawn in greater numbers

Zerglings are meant to weigh around 150lbs? Like a large dog, Termagants (ranged version of horma) I believe are 400lbs? Over double the weight and they DEFINITELY have more numbers, they throw them at the opponent in the tens of millions. I believe in SC1 each zerg fleet had around a million or less.

100% depends on what kind of flood? Flood at the height of their power can infect people who even know about the flood, they can infect space and infect time. They would stomp.

A planet of guardsmen turned flood vs nids though? Nids stomp.

>The Zerg also have plenty of artillery
Tyranids once made a ring of tyranids, going around the entire planet, entirely of artillery creatures and slowly advanced this artillery beast ring across the world to push people back

Also fire is pretty effective, acid can be but its somewhat easy for them to adapt too since they can have acidic blood

Genestealers weight something like 30 stone? I remember reading theyre around as heavy as a horse, tyranid warriors are 1 tonne and in CC can rip marines apart pretty easily

>How many xenomorphs would it take to down a genestealer?
Situational. Both are smart enough not to fight head on most of the time.
>Or perhaps a warrior?
A lot. A Warrior is a slightly less armored but a lot tougher and faster space marine.
>How many zergling to down a warrior?
See above.
>Zergling vs Hormagaunt?
Horma. Larger attack range.
>How many Xeno queens to take down a hive tyrant?
The former aren't psykers. Tyrants are. The answer should be a damn lot.

One hive fleet. Looks like a tasty target. Nice big and proper.
The Thing isn't a psyker, every Nid is. The Hive Mind would therefore make it it's bitch. Heck it would propably join because it wanted to.
Not so much a fight but a "Let's make sweet love." "Agreed, kiss me you fool!"

>One hive fleet. Looks like a tasty target. Nice big and proper.

>The Thing isn't a psyker, every Nid is. The Hive Mind would therefore make it it's bitch. Heck it would propably join because it wanted to.
Not so much a fight but a "Let's make sweet love." "Agreed, kiss me you fool!"

youtube.com/watch?v=CbhYtvAMZWk

literally lol.