/5eg/ D&D Fifth Edition General

5th Edition D&D General Discussion

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Im running a campaing where the PC are gonna be on a ship fighting pirate ships, any cool ideas?

Can we have mystic edition, or at least midget porn edition?

Reposting from dead thread: What would be a good ability to represent a unit of regular mooks doing a shieldwall? Something like reverse pack tactics?

reposting as well


Is taking hex via magic initiate as a warlock to conserve spells worth it? Even though you can only cast it once per long rest, it seems like the hour long duration makes it still effective but more as a special attack option.

No to both, and I'm one of the people who have been talking about it.

Would it be to cheese /op to use planar Ally to summon something to steal a phylactery from an ancient red dragons hoard? I just turned 11 and saw that skill and thought it might be a possibility.

Whats the best/most fun monk build? Yes I'm a new-shitter pls help me

Pretty good for a face warlock, give disadvantage on insight checks as you are talking to a guard. Needs to be cast so they don't know though.

D6 necrotic damage on hit is good though.


Hey I was thinking about a Gargoyle race last night and got some feedback, hoping for a bit more after some tweaking.

Walk/Fly Speed 25 ft.
>lowered from 30, further reflects an impression of weight but I could probably bump it back up to 30 if that seems better.
Natural AC of 14
AC bonuses are determined by either CON or DEX
>not entirely sure about this one but I think it could be an interesting idea and from the start if your gargoyle is wearing a shield then it's easy enough to have 19 AC from the start, not sure how balanced or OP that is.
Advantage when attempting to Hide or use Stealth among rocky surfaces
Immunity to Petrifications

Any further thoughts or input?

The planar ally is controlled by the DM they could just say I can't do that

Depends on what you want for fun, if you want to teleport through shadows and stealth go Shadow Monk, multiclass a couple levels into rogue, 6 max, with assassin for dishing out damage using your teleport to set up advantage for sneak attack.

If you want a more cc focused build go Way of the Open Palm, focus on locking down ranged and magic threats with your mobility and stun lock potential. At level 17 get one of the only remaining save or die abilities.

Stay away from Way of the Four Elements, it is one of the only trap options in 5e aside from phb ranger beast master.

shadow monk sounds hella fun, not sure how much use i'll get out of it in the campaign but oh well, ninjas never wrong

Why not baseline 13 + DEX AC like Lizardfolk?

If you want to say "muh stone is more durable than scale!" then the AC bonus should act like heavy armor (pure 14, no bonus from ability score).

Pre 6 Open Hand, after 6 Shadow monk gets teleporting.

It was originally 13+DEX and someone made the 14+CON suggestion so I thought I'd try that to see what reactions it gets.

Main thing is to keep in mind your environment, if I remember right you only need dim light to use the feature and it's a bonus action. At level three for two ki points you can cast darkness so you can stand in dim light throw darkness behind someone in regular light and still teleport for advantage on the attack.

If your DM is half way decent he should come up with something to use your skills, or just go out of your way to be help with them.

Also keep in mind stunning strike is a really good way to help the whole team even as a Shadow Monk so use it when you can.

Also almost forgot just like said it is a level six feature but still really fun.

how many of you honestly multiclass on your campaigns?
it just feels so impractical to ever multiclass if you are starting a campaign at 1st level and you know it wont go much past 8th at which point its just easier and more effective to stay on a single class.

I normally do because we are friends who play extended campaigns. If we were always stoping at say level 9 or 10 yeah it'd be more practical to just do straight leveling.

Technically Lore Bards can pick this spell up at level 6. So probably not.

it is a good spell for any class with access to multiple attacks pero round, extra attack, bonus action attacks, reaction attacks, extra action extra attacks, etc. and it can stack with hex/hunter's mark if you get someone else to cast it on you.

I multiclassed solely for story reasons, and expertise in arcana and history as a wizard.

Patrician taste

Any tips for running CoS? Doing the Death House mini-adventure first.

Think bleak and depressing atmosphere

What new spells should I pick up as a level 6 Lore Bard?

I'm running it with an all edgelord party so I'm going full grimdark with it.

I'm mostly confused by sequence of events, should I be gently nudging the players to the places? Or should they be realizing where they're going on their own and that no, they shouldn't head to the Castle right away.

Well what spells do you have and what is your party made up of?

Best way to discourage that is have Strahd show up and literally toy with the party.

If you play Strahd as bi or gay you better fucking make him like Dr Frankfurter in Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Spirit Guardians
Aura of Vitality
These are all good choices.

I play at a comic shop and the actual composition changes a lot depending on who decides to come that day.

When everyone's around we have a cleric, druid, paladin, sorcerer, fighter, barbarian, warlock, ranger, and another bard.

I have:
Vicious Mockery

Faerie Fire
Dissonant Whispers
Hideous Laughter
Cure Wounds

Heat Metal
Phantasmal Force

Bestow Curse

Yeah, that I'm definitely doing.

I made Strahd a woman and am probably going to go with a Carmilla theme

Well then this guy definitely had the right idea of what would be good. Personally Counterspell would be my top for fucking with enemy casters.

Crusaders Mantle is also good if you plan on playing melee.

Should I run a whip war cleric for CoS?

Hi Virt here for more (you)s today I see.

We haven't run into any enemy casters yet though which is why I'm hesitant on taking it but I think no one else has it so I probably should hm.

Too late my friend.


Just for future reference. This is a pretty good list.

Remember that Strahd is a 400 year old vampire wizard who has toyed with and killed hundreds of adventurers in his time. He shows up whenever and wherever he likes, attacks at the most advantageous time and from the most advantageous position, has a horde of minions to back him up, and flees the moment he's in any actual danger. He's pretty much your villainous DMPC and you should treat him as such, playing him to the limit of your optimisational ability. That said, he doesn't try to kill the characters to start off with, leaving when he's had his fun for the first few levels. If he learns they've obtained one of the main items or once they're about level 5+, he should switch over to trying to murder them - though he first invites them to the castle.

To really set the tone, while the party are out on the road or in town at level 1 or 2 have him pull up in a black carriage, step out, introduce himself, beat the crap out of the party singlehandedly until everyone is on half or less health (and ideally at least one person is bleeding out), then fly back into his carriage and leave again.

I agree with making it 13 + DEX to keep it in line with other races with natural armor. 14 + CON is too good.


Healing words >>>> cure wounds for a bard imo.

these are all good options, some other people will suggest bless/guidance, hex/eldritch blast, find familiar/steed, lightning arrow or any assorted groups of class exclusive spells, but if you have plenty of damage dealers, you probably want as much utility as you could muster.

i advocate for counterspell (works with jack of all trades) and maybe aura of vitality or crusader's mantle.

Yeah I was going to switch it out along with suggestion because I've never had the chance to use it and I keep running into situations where I'm halfway across the map and would get an AoO on me if I wanted to heal a party member.

IA, about the damage. Most of my teammates are pulling out a shit ton of damage at this point and I'll never keep up so I'll probably just stay with buffing/debuffing and occasional damage.

Good things about 5th Edition:
>proficiency bonus
>skill list
>dex adds to damage with ranged weapons
>infinite cantrips
>some of the feats are good
>death saves
>barbarian rage gives straight damage now
>eldritch knight archetype
>undead have constitution scores now

Bad things about 5e
> ASIs are +2 each instead of +1 each, even though abilities cap at 20
> half the feats are shit or give a Str buff because they are only half a feat effectively
> proficiency bonuses are way too small
> fighter gets to level 20 and literally never gets any better at defending himself
> treasure is useless because you can't buy magic items
> healing kits are fucking stupid
>races get only bonuses no penalties because god forbid an orc wizard isn't as good as a human wizard
>pro-gay/trans crap
>hit point bloat out the ass (for monsters)
>have to pay to get feats
>NPC classes are gone so they just get arbitrary hit dice and shit
>proficiency is based off of CR which is entirely an estimative mechanic
>greatsword is still overpowered, shields still suck
>magic items have a gay-ass attunement mechanic for no reason
>bonuses are replaced by non-stacking advantage/disadvantage which is meant as a "DM's best friend" before half the feats and abilities give it
>wizards are too lazy to create good rules for stacking so none exist
>ability drain is gone entirely because it hurts people's feelings and math is hard

If they ride in with the Vistani, you can have them go straight to the camp and meet Madame Eva for their tarot reading (if the players try to get off early, have the Vistani insist the players accept their hospitality and hope they get the hint).

Otherwise when they end up in Barovia, make sure they end up walking past the Kolyana house. Following that quest line gets you to the other two major 'safe' areas, and as they ride through those you can drop hints to the other locations - some are visible from the road or have sign posts, others can be mentioned in rumours at the tavern.

9 out of 10 times you don't need it, but when you do you'll be glad you have it.

>>races get only bonuses no penalties because god forbid an orc wizard isn't as good as a human wizard
You were making some good points until this. You haven't been around for a good few months, at the very least. Orcs DO have penalties, because of Volo's.

Healing kits?
pro-gay/trans crap?
Have to pay to get feats?
Shields suck?

Mate, have you been smoking stuff or is your DM a massive faggot?

Virt, stop being a fag

Charge your fucking battery

>battery almost down to 50%

Nah it'll last till the end of the day so I'm not worried.

>ASIs are +2 each instead of +1 each, even though abilities cap at 20
Why is this a problem?


For Light Cleric...
> concentrate on guardian spirit
> bonus action attack with spiritual guardian
> action is casting guardian of faith,fireball, scorching ray or sacred flame

Does this sound right?

You have to give up ability score improvements to get feats, instead of the classes just giving you feats normally. Feats do more so sometimes they are worth it, but only because ability scores cap at 20, which is only necessary because the ASIs are out of control. The reason the ASIs are out of control, is because this edition is meant to pander to vidya-playing normies who want instant gratification. So a +1 to an even-numbered score not giving them an actual bonus, is just too much for their little pea-brains.

Also, due to the fact that every fighter is going to increase Str/Dex/Con, basically every fighter will end up with the same scores by level 20, and rolling for stats basically just show how close you are to the cap. Your stats define nothing about your character's identity.

They should have either:
>kept the "+1 to two scores" so people had to spread out their ASIs and characters had a gradual but natural growth, and couldn't just max out their class's score
>made ASIs something that happens only once or twice (maybe +1 to a score at 10th and then at 20th level) and made ability scores less important
>removed ASIs altogether so that they actually are a measure of a character's raw talent, and actually say something about the character

Instead, every 20th level fighter has a 20 Strength so Strength as a stat might as well not exist. There honestly might as well not even be stats at all, just group skills by class and give fighters a damage buff. It doesn't matter if Conan has an 18 Strength but his little brother Jonan has a 16, because they'll both be at 20 and be the same fuckin character, stat-wise.

Speaking of attunement, I'm thinking of taking off the restriction of being able to onyl attune to three items at once.
We are playing a fairly high power level, high magic campaign so so magic items are plenty.
Anything I'm not taking into consideration here? Anything absolutely gamebreaking?

New player here...what are the best spells and cantrips to take for a general purpose wizard?

He will be School of Conjuration, level 3.

>Speaking of attunement, I'm thinking of taking off the restriction of being able to onyl attune to three items at once.

They should have just said "you can only benefit from three worn items at a time, otherwise the auras overlap and cancel each other out." They didn't need to add this gay-ass attunement shit. They also didn't need to remove the gold piece cost from magic items, they just needed to reduce WBL so you weren't walking around with a shitton of magic gear by 5th level.

To clarify I want him to be useful in most situations, not just combat. A swiss army knife

>treasure is useless
Didn't they release a UA that basically said here is how to handle buying and selling magical items and other shit?

If you have a low ceiling room and you have to jump, is smart to put down a stepstool and jump off of that?

The range of improvement is already small. Most fighters start with a 15 Strength so within 2-1/2 ASIs they will have 20 Strength. What's next? Buffing Con, which gives a shitton more hit points. Why even bother with feats, even the good ones in this edition? Why should feats and ability scores have to compete? Why are they interchangeable? Why does Wizards create a metric for feats to live up to, then fail to live up to said metric with alot of them which give half an ASI along with the feat? Why not shift the focus of character customization from the boring linear class feature choices, to feats, which are self-contained and can be taken at any level, or mix and matched?

It's because they wanted to pander to grognards (who are used to playing AD&D, which doesn't have feats), and normalfags (who are quickly bored by complicated things like feat choices).

>the 4ree autist is back again

Well it's gonna be another one of those threads boys.

>20th-level characters having their primary ability score maxed is too powerful
>characters are defined solely by their ability scores, nothing else matters

>it's okay to leave important rules out of the core books, as long as we put it on some blog that 10% of the fanbase reads

Good things I disagree with
>Death saves
Death saves fuckin' suck unless you're playing baby mode.
>Skill list
The skill list sucks because stealth, athletics and perception all contribute to combat while most other skills barely do, and yet they're just as easy to get proficiency in.
>Eldritch knight archetype
The eldritch knight doesn't play as magically as an arcane trickster does due to the nature of it wanting to just cast shield and absorb elements a lot.

Other stuff I either don't care about or agree with.

Bad stuff I notably disagree with:
>Half the feats are shit
There needs to be more feats, really, and not just fucking compulsory weapon feats.
>Proficiency bonuses are too small
It's better that there's not a massive gap between high levels and low levels, but I can agree it's hard to specialize in something.
>Treasure is useless because you can't buy magic items
All sorts of things to spend it on, it's just the DM has to decide things. I suppose we could use a guide on it, though.
>Races get only bonuses no penalties
You're still encouraged to pick relevant races. Half-orc wizards are still shite in comparison, but they're not entirely 100% shite and can be played and they can work for when someone wants to do it without becoming a joke character.
>Pro-gay/trans crap
It's probably, like, one line? I never actually see it, because it's probably not in a relevant part of the PHB.
How else are you going to incite more diversity and choice?

Pretty sure on page 135 of the DMG it says it can go either way. If you want to buy and sell magical items go for it, but it should be difficult.

>characters are defined solely by their ability scores, nothing else matters

If their ability scores aren't defining anything about them, why even have them?

Shape Water. You know water expand when you flash freeze them right? Did you know that it have enough force to break almost everything?

Death saves add tension to a character being "down." Their execution isn't perfect, and negative-Con should still be a direct kill instead of this negative-half-hp bullshit, but at least it's not "oh you don't have to heal me for another few turns, I'm still only at -3"

I also meant to add "generally rules light and clean" to the list of good things. And if we are counting up points, that should be at least 2 in its favor.

>Half-orc wizards are still shite in comparison,

How? They aren't any more shite than dwarves. And they are barely worse than humans.

Unseen Servant
Find Familiar

at higher level take Polymorph

>Archetypes, continued
Also, it's a lot easier for someone to make an archetype than a class for homebrew, so it kinda helps people not be 100% shit at homebrew. Which they always are.
>Have to pay to get feats
Your DM can give everyone a free one, you can play variant human or you can .. Just suck it up, because a +2 ASI isn't that major and is just a slight boost and a feat might be worth more than that. Players aren't forced into a feat fuckfest like previous editions.
>NPC classes are gone
The problem isn't NPC classes, but the fact enemies have so much more hitpoints and a different way of being built.
>Greatsword is overpowered, shields suck
Uhh... Have you actually tried playing 5e yet?
Polearms are the most powerful, and shields have their place on all the many people who don't even need to attack with more than one weapon anyway and certain shit like shield master shovefests.
>Bonuses are replaced by
I'm not saying the rest of the advantage/disadvantage argument is bad, but all the bonus stacking was cancer.
>Wizards too lazy to create good rules for stacking
Assuming spells, there's good reason and DMs can come up with their own rules. Assuming advantage/disadvantage.. Let the DM decide, such as 'If you get two disadvantages, fuck I'm not even going to let you try attacking'
>Ability drain is gone entirely, maths is hard
You can just debuff people instead rather than having them edit their sheet constantly.

Spiritual Weapon and Eldritch Blast

Dwarf Wizard get weapon and armor proficiency. It allow them to go full 8 INT Wizard meme build.

Be a Half-orc Wizard and you're stuck with wizard proficiency.

>Add tension
The only tension it adds is 'Hey, cleric, mind casting healing word on me or, I don't know, I'll just wait down here doing jack shit'
'Hey, DM, please don't make the monster target me in which case my character instantly dies'

>Any more shite than dwarves
A dwarf gets higher AC (armour proficiency), higher attributes (+2 str +2 con), poison resistance, and those other things as well as not needing 15 strength to wear platemail if they then get heavy armour feat.
A half-orc gets the 'you go to 1 instead of 0 HP' thing and that's literally it aside from intimidation. It's a good ability, but not as good.

>Polearms are the most powerful

yeah only if you have the feat. That's like putting in only one specialization feat for a weapon then claiming that weapon is the most powerful, because the developers refused to let you specialize in something like a dagger.

They forgot to put in a rule saying you can't cast spells in armor? Looks like WotC fucked up again.

The opposite. They intentionally allow it without any sort of intuitive backward workaround.

>A dwarf gets higher AC (armour proficiency), higher attributes (+2 str +2 con), poison resistance, and those other things as well as not needing 15 strength to wear platemail if they then get heavy armour feat.
>A half-orc gets the 'you go to 1 instead of 0 HP' thing and that's literally it aside from intimidation. It's a good ability, but not as good.

This has nothing to do with wizards, though. It just looks like orcs are objectively worse than dwarves.

Alright, time to flex the old fingers
>> ASIs are +2 each instead of +1 each, even though abilities cap at 20
This is fine, because it means you'll cap your main stat at level eight and then the higher levels can be for feats / rounding out your other stats. Giving +1 to a single stat every fourth level would be awful.
>> half the feats are shit or give a Str buff because they are only half a feat effectively
Most of them are niche or more flavourful, but overall any given feat is more powerful and meaningful that a feat from a previous edition. The feats that are most complained about are the ones that give objectively superior flat-out bonuses, such as PAM.
>> proficiency bonuses are way too small
Not really, increasing proficiency bonuses would lead to meaningless number bloat. The maths works as it is.
>> fighter gets to level 20 and literally never gets any better at defending himself
Bounded accuracy, the point is that the players should never be un-hittable. Besides which, at level twenty they'll have loads of health, plus fighters get tons of ASIs which they can pump into CON or trade for feats, plus they'll probably have picked up magic armour or shields, plus they have the most effective defence - massive damage output.
>> treasure is useless because you can't buy magic items
The magic mart was more of a problem, besides which the DM can just allow players to buy magic items if necessary (with guideline prices in the DMG). Treasure being generally useless is a problem though, but that's not specific to 5e.
>> healing kits are fucking stupid
Firstly it's only a stabilisation without the Healer feat (itself balanced), secondly it takes a whole action to use. What's the problem?


> He doesn't know about muscle wizard meme build

Here some protips:
1) A lot of buff and utility spell doesn't use your DC
2) Concentration is based off CON
3) There is no minimum INT requirement to cast higher level spell

It's the only way I play wizard

Actually not cont'd, I realised what I was doing and decided against wasting my time on obvious bait

How do you build it?

Because otherwise Paladins, Clerics, Druids, Bards, Rangers, Eldritch Knights and probably several more classes and subclasses I've forgotten about wouldn't be able to cast spells in their heavy and medium armour, as they're obviously intended to be able to do. Given the number of hoops you have to jump through for a relatively small increase to survivability, it hardly seems like an issue to me.

A barbarian doesn't need the armour proficiency, can use half-orc's extra crit dice and doesn't need the heavy armour movement, and if they're a bear barbarian they don't really need poison resistance.

Dwarf is a sidegrade for a barbarian, but an upgrade over half-orc for a wizard.
Orc, not half-orc is definitely just shite though.

>Giving +1 to a single stat every fourth level would be awful.

Or just give +1 to two different ones, as I suggested. Same amount of numbers but its more spread out.

>Most of them are niche or more flavourful, but overall any given feat is more powerful and meaningful that a feat from a previous edition

Comparing them to previous editions is stupid when the entire power level has changed. Feats are more useful now, but you also have to pay for them, whereas you didn't before.

>Not really, increasing proficiency bonuses would lead to meaningless number bloat. The maths works as it is.

No it wouldn't. By that logic, the way proficiency is now, is number bloat. Reduce it more. Or prove why the way it is is the optimal way for the math to work.

Someone should have the meme copypasta for you.

Then just give them armored spellcasting ability? Wizards aren't supposed to wear armor.

>Bounded accuracy, the point is that the players should never be un-hittable.

They are never unhittable because a natural 20 automatically hits them. Even Aragorn in a low-powered fantasy setting could fight and parry blows from a couple dozen orcs without getting hit.

>massive damage output

Yeah another issue with 5e, with the conversion of basically every offensive spell and ability to straight damage output, the game becomes all about that sweet, sweet DPS. Good vidya analogy for the normies and rosties coming in from Overwatch.

No one cares if you are continuing or not.

You sound bitter and angry. Do you want to talk about it?

Got any ideas to expand on this? Trying to start out a setting and it's rather difficult. Pls help new dm.

Nah he just wants to ree about his precious 4e. He does it every couple of days or so.

Well I guess the main question is what kind of setting you wanting? Where do you plan to take this in the long run?

I'm a level 10 Wizard and so far my most useful spells have been

-Mage Armor and Shield (I leave all my level 1 slots for these two now)
- Misty Step, Suggestion, Mirror Image (no concentration!)
- Counterspell
- Polymorph (absolutely insane, gamebreaking)

Avoid Fire Bolt as a cantrip. You'll be using Scorching Ray (2nd) and Fireball (3rd) as your single target and aoe spells, respectively, so you'll be fucked if something Fire Resistant comes along. And it's very common.
I picked Ray of Frost instead, d8 vs d10 it's not that big of a difference (but mind the smaller range on it).

My biggest problem is doing something useful that does not require concentration, because I'm pretty much always concentrating on Polymorph.
Once I get to level 11 I'll pick Mass Suggestion because it doesn't require it.

Your damage spells are pretty shitty after a while too. I focus on staying alive, maintaining my concentration (on spells like Polymorph), crowd control and buffs (like Polymorph - which is also the single biggest "heal").