It's Persona season

>Female Human Cleric
Basically the inverse of the Stepford Wives (or maybe the Truman Show). Waking up with no memories in Barovia has seriously skewed her view of normalcy, and deep in her heart, she just wants to live in an idyllic, beautiful society with a husband (or perhaps several) whose existence revolves around making her happy.
She has an 'alternate personality' (her original attitude from before she lost her memories) who is almost like the above except for more Lawful in tone. Instead of just a common woman, she wants to be Queen over a noblebright kingdom (husband optional, consorts yes). She also has a long-seated grudge against her sister, who she views as self-righteous (hah) and shortsighted.

Probably mostly pitying of the character for doing all this and wants to kill them just so they'll stop hurting themselves to help others. No one deserves the bullshit she's going through.

Cyberpunk Distopias. Not even once.

Best system to run Persona in? I've considered Monsters and Other Childish Things, OVA, and BESM and GURPS, or just develop my own system where combat is a series of saves against different attack types and status effects.

I have two characters, one has the leadership feat, which drew the other to his side.

Human Fighter
"Gods, you're pathetic. I mean, seriously, you want people to respect you, but you always try to stay out of the spotlight because you don't want people to look into you too much and see that under all that brooding and eyeliner you're still a little kid who thinks he can be a hero. Some hero you are! The only heroic things you did was saving a kid when you were nearly passed out drunk and the other you did just for the sake of revenge. Your companions are right to pay you no mind at all, because all you can do is swing some sharp pieces of metal, while they can channel the power of Gods and manipulate the world around them with their minds. And even the others with no magic are better at swinging sharp pieces of metal better than you. You're not even a decent punching bag. Why haven't you given up yet? You've died three times now and nobody missed you. Nobody wants you."

Paladin
"Stop kidding yourself. You didn't join his group because you wanted to help or it was some divine crusade given to you. You just wanted to become a famous adventurer so you can retire young and make daddy proud. Fat chance! You can't even prevent your cousin from going the same road his dad went, what can you change? I don't know why Hieroneus still allows you to wield his light. You're not even worthy to carry that sword(Exordius). You would be better off a maid in some tavern, making fast coin instead of getting your shit kicked in, cause you're pretty good at forcing yourself to smile."

A manifestation of pure justice, meted out upon any evil doers who think they can escape his sight.

Because he's a straight up, no nonsense Jedi who doesn't care about "Light Side / Dark Side" and obeys the Republic law to the letter.

I don't guess anyone would mind explaining what a Shadow is in the Persona context?

I tried googling it, but all the definitions I could find (one per Persona game, just about) were all vague and unhelpful.

Usually the repressed inversion/little piece of yourself you don't want to admit you have turned into a full blown caricature.

Eg is Kanji, a tough as nails biker bancho who secretly likes sewing and is worried people would think he's a sissy for it. His shadow is a full blown faggot.

It varies slightly by game, but usually the Shadow is a manifestation of a person's suppressed personality traits or desires.

For example, Kanji is an antisocial, violent, macho delinquent in the real world, but his Shadow is a flamboyant, feminine nudist obsessed with beauty and sex. This is because Kanji is secretly gay, or at the very least bisexual, as well as being scared of rejection so it's an exaggeration of his repressed self.

When you defeat your Shadow or accept it as part of yourself, it combines with the real you and you gain a Persona, which is like a symbolic pokemon you can use to set things on fire.

tl;dr, the Shadow is the aspects of the 'true self' that the person in question pretends not to have.

Playing a World of Darkness Hunter game with the comcept that everyone is a double agent trying to do something for their main conspiracy against their second conspiracy. My character is VASCU/Cherion, infiltrating them to find out what they know about the Wintergreen process and also catalog what they're doing with the bodies that have been going missing from our Langley Detention Center for Supernaturals and Slashers.

Since his character is teeter tottering on going mad because of his psychic powers from VASCU and the Thamutech (which is monster parts grafted inside of you) it would probably look like pic related, especially because a plot hook was that a serial killer (Maniac) killed his partner and gave him a near-fatal head wound (via a timed hidden gun trap) before I killed him. To save my character's life and do an experiment on him, they grafted part of the serial killer's brain onto mine to repair the missing brain matter.

So it's human form would be like Two-Face, one half mine and the other half being the slasher and then it would mutate into the pic after I reject it.

>This is because Kanji is secretly gay

Fucking yaoi fans need to fuck off with this meme. Kanji is only afraid of being perceived as gay - he is still het.

The Shadow doesn't represent what the person is afraid of being perceived as, it represents what they secretly are in an exaggerated fashion.

So Rise is a stripper, right.

>it represents what they secretly are

I disagree with this. It usually represents something the person was rejecting out of fear or built up because of how others reacted.

If Kanji was 'secretly' gay, he would have accepted being a homo (you cannot reject your shadow) and not been interested in Naoto after learning she had a pucci

>If Kanji was 'secretly' gay, he would have accepted being a homo (you cannot reject your shadow)
I don't know about that. People tend to accept their shadow exists, but they rarely undergo any actual personality change. They just stop actively hiding from the truth.

I dunno though, maybe Kanji isn't gay. I think it could go either way, though. It still took Naoto XX years to start acting and dressing like a woman after she accepted her shadow.

The series takes a lot from Jung. Persona, Shadow, etc. are all his terms for elements of his theories on psychology. In his own words "the shadow personifies everything that the subject refuses to acknowledge about himself".

Secondary question: what Arcana would your character represent?
I'm torn between The Moon and Empress.

That helps a lot anons. Thanks.

Though now I understand 's point. I typically play old/world weary characters. Most of them are very aware of their faults already, or really only suppress parts of their behavior out of necessity.

I can think of plenty of things the characters just don't talk about, but I'm guessing that doesn't count as actual suppressed personality traits. I guess I'll need to sleep on it.

youtube.com/watch?v=0rbdGvTpMwg

music says yes.

It's more complex than that. The stripper is just the easiest shorthand for all of the insecurities around Rise.

Rise both loves and hates being Risette. As Risette she's adored and idolized, but only for superficial things. But attention and adoration are still what Rise deep down wants, even if it is superficial. Not to mention that she feels at odds with the character she plays, partially because she fights against the idea that this character isn't just some character, but is also a part of herself. Plus, Rise is sexual. Persona 5 further confirms this, as when Rise is 20, her newest single is about "mature love." Given that she's resolved her issues, it's clear that she's become comfortable with sexual openness.

>If Kanji was 'secretly' gay, he would have accepted being a homo (you cannot reject your shadow) and not been interested in Naoto after learning she had a pucci

Not to mention not lusting after Yukiko at some points (the bikini contest and the class trip come to mind).

To elaborate on point, there is a difference between ACCEPTING your repressed (perceived) negative and EMBRACING it.

Two characters in Persona 4 outright turn into their shadows/become indistuingishable from them, and the difference between the antagonists of 5 and their shadows is pretty much non-existant. All of them are older people and VASTLY more dangerous than the shadows of the teens. Seriously, age doesn't really save you from that, hell, it will probably be even worse.

What if my character is already a manipulative two-faced cunt putting on a facade and is fully aware and even prideful of it?
Does she still have a shadow?

Probably whoever she was before she became a cunt.

Possibly a crying little girl is her shadow, because she can't face that she's powerless in spite of all her manipulation, etc.

Seeing your shadow is pretty fucking awful for 99% of people.

>Possibly a crying little girl is her shadow
By your logic, that's exactly what it would be. Stop spying on me, user.

Some people also have really weird shadows. Like a pile of screaming legos that turn into a baby, or a big flaming vagina wheel.

Maybe me crossdressing in a nurse outfit? Or a cliche milf getup? I don't know what kind of outfit would really work beyond the overly cliche. I have a bad tendency to occupy myself with trying to fix people's problems, or give them advice like I know what I'm talking about (protip: i do not) and then just kinda stop talking to them once they're in a better place. It's gross and parasitic of me and I generally try to hide it.

Persona maybe Ananke, arcana Empress or Lovers.

>Probably some crybaby who complains how nobody loves him and how he wants to be accepted by both his family and his peers, enraged user as his antisocial neet lifestyle will be challenged by the shadow's realm of social life and happiness.

I think Kanji is some sort of bi. He's attracted to Naoto when he thinks she's a guy, and he's still attracted to her when knows she's a girl.
Even if I think the point of his shadow is less sexuality and more general acceptance of his less-manly side in the eyes of others, sexuality ties into it in some part. He might not grow up to be some fangirl's GAY HUSBANDO, but he's a teen, and interrogations about sexuality as usually pretty important for teens. As they are, in fact, for some others characters too, like suggested.

Guys. Your character's shadow, not your shadow.

All I can think about is my most recent character. He's a Solo from the mean streets of Night City. He always told himself he was "fighting the good fight" now. Fighting to protect innocent people from the predations of the Mega-Corps and Boostergangs.

His Shadow would taunt him with the fact that, deep down, he's a Sadist who likes hurting people. He likes watching them choke on their own blood and relishes the sensation of power that comes from knowing that whatever they were before is gone forever and it's all because of him.

The best pain from a character comes from your own self. For a situation like a shadow, you want it to have emotional connection, which is why we can relate to the various characters in P4 who meet their shadows.

But would your character have a Palace?

Absolutely.
It would be some kind of temple dedicated to worshipping her. The wandering Shadows would be peasants or beggars.

To elaborate on point, there is a difference between ACCEPTING your repressed (perceived) negative and EMBRACING it.

I'm afraid I don't exactly understand where you're going with this. Is embracing the way to 'defeat' the Shadow while simple accepting the flaw is only a stalling tactic? Would failing to totally embrace the Shadow result in becoming it?

But if the characters embraced their shadows they might become something they don't want to be out of principle, wouldn't they? I have an epic level fighter that despises the fact he's taken joy in killing before (very select individuals, but he still hates it). If he embraced an unrepentant killer aspect of himself that seems like it would be antithetical to his character up to this point.

I'm sorry if I'm being a bit dull. I just got off of work so I might not be operating at 100% right now.

oh, woops. ha ha.

I had to forfeit my shadow to the gatekeeper so that I might enter the walled city.

>I'm quite excited to meet my Shadow, actually. I'm picturing... Brilliant golden armor, and the flowing white mane of a majestic steed. Or maybe a black mane. Hard to tell with all this symbolism business.
>Are you sure you brought enough revival beads? Let's be realistic, my Shadow is going to wipe the floor with you.
>Oh, I suppose it doesn't really matter. I'll just step in at the last moment, accept it as part of myself, and everything will be peachy.
>God, I can't wait to see my Persona. I bet it's--
>[enter sad loli shadow]
>...
>Oh.

That's the thing. They both accept and embrace that side of themselves as being a part of them, not all of them thrive off of it, but they do aknowledge that it's something they can't really shut down or escape.
It's not about changing who you are, it's about knowing who you truly is and learning to integrate that into your being in a healthy and undestructive way.

>Some people also have really weird shadows. Like a pile of screaming legos that turn into a baby, or a big flaming vagina wheel.

Well that's understandable. You should never drop a baby on legos or light your vagina wheel on fire.

I was going to write a long-ass text about this, but this guy said it way better than I could.

You have to keep in mind that this by and large based on psychology, so how this shit manifests can vary a lot. Your character, if aware of it, might actually already be on his way to deal with his Shadow peacefully.

Not to mention the whole EMBRACING is largely reserved for REALLY vile people (I mean about literal rapists tier of fucked up) or ones gone off the psychological deep end.

A boudoir of marble columns, stained glass (think the prom night baby of inner Sector Bootes and Group Date Cafe's upper floors) and assorted kinky antechambers. Shadows and Lawful demons patrol relentlessly in hot pursuit of anything going on inside resembling coital discomfort. If patrons must be broken up by force, a run of SD Unicorn Gundams equipped with "NTR-D" act as FOEs.

It's the palace belonging to and her Shadow; the treasure is an idealized memory of an estranged waifu who never got to grow to appreciate all the lewd going on inside.

I *think* I get it. I guess I'll give this a shot.

OK, so aforementioned epic level fighter

>A giant, ~16-18ft made entirely of swords or other blades of war
>arms and legs end in points, no digits or manipulators
>head is a skull set into the top of the mound of blades that serves as the neck, blue flames lick out from the eye sockets
>gold threads attach to various points on the giant, which trail up to the fingers of a floating, gold hand
>rather than moving under its own power, the giant is actually a puppet of the hand above it

Said character is in a kind of purgatory as an unintentional consequence of a wish he made a long time ago. He'll go to his proper afterlife when he dies for real, but until then he's stuck getting pulled around by whichever god has the power to drag him into their domain, so he gets stuck fighting their battles no matter how hard he works to get home and live a normal life.

He's terrified he's going to live out the rest of his life being pulled around on a string, turned into a weapon for powers he can't hope to oppose. It's a fear exacerbated by the fact his body is optimized for combat; he doesn't have the skills, or even mental stability, required to secure and hold a home in a typical economy. He doesn't want to be a weapon for the rest of his life, he just wants to be a dad.

This feels a bit shallow for the purpose of the exercise, but it's all I can think of atm. I'll sleep on it and hopefully I'll have something better tonight if the thread is still up.

Tell me more.

Several of the aggrieved parties of the "I Wanna Be That Guy" copypasta/greentext wanted a comfy Persona game with mutually-shared Magical Realm elements, and I obliged.

The first catch: it's a sequel to at least one of the campaigns in aforementioned greentext, where the Old DM's Magical Realms kept standing at cross paths with their own and the "Muh JPRG Cinematic Aesthetic" was used more to railroad the party to Bad Ends than to exposit or accentuate their triumphs.

The second catch: this campaign is two years old and counting now. I started it in the middle of a Persona Q run and gradually stole shit from the rest of the 3DS Megaten games as time went on. The TMS elements are more of a happy coincidence than anything else; about 5 months prior to the Japanese release I was already laying framework for the main villains being a cadre of nihilistic, exploitative White people trying to suck the creativity and positive objectification out of Japan.

Hmm...the last shadowrun character I played likely works best here. My bad if I misinterpret what a shadow should be, not a Persona player.

Starr, Texan (With that runner name? NEVER) Mystic Adept. She's a veteran of the battle of the Alamo (The Shadowrun one, not the historical one) with serious PTSD over the fact that she's the sole survivor of her unit of Texas Rangers.

Her Shadow is likely close to the girl she was before the battle. A young elven woman playing at soldier, way too innocent and friendly. Someone who has no place on a battlefield or on a run and will just get herself and others killed.

Deep down, Starr fears that it was her own inexperience that got her team killed. She was the team's mystical protection but she was new to anything like this and she only barely managed to stop a few blood spirits. Aztechnology had plenty more where that came from and they all died because she wasn't strong enough to keep going, to keep banishing spirits and counterspelling.

Looked at it objectively, there was no way she was ever going to be enough. A single mage can't hope to take on multiple seasoned blood mages and hope to win, no matter how experienced you are. However, to her it's that lack of experience that got her team killed.

That and she is afraid of reaching out and getting hurt. It's been years but she's kept out of social situations despite the fact that she's desperately lonely and wants friends and family but her fears of losing them due to her own weakness keeps her from doing so. So she can't be social, be the friendly person she used to be and wants to be again.

I have no clue how such a boss fight would actually happen, when her Shadow is defined by 'Having no place on a battlefield' but that's the parts of her she fears and represses the most.

Sounds cool. Also, nice trips.

I essentially summoned my characters shadow into the real world to replace her after shit kept going badly.

Not grimderp the world is going to end, but just obstacle after obstacle.

She was all sunshine and happiness so the shadow is all grumpy and pissed off with only the interest in looking after the people she cares about instead of everyone.

My character is an honest to god good guy who wants to help people, but due to his actions, stunning good looks and high charisma, has gotten quite famous. All the fame has skewed his ego a good bit, not to the degree of distracting him from the reason he's with the party in the first place.

His shadow would probably be a megalomaniacal ass talking about how great he is, and he'd go psychotic over any attempt to point out his flaws. He'd likely degrade the rest of the party, saying how they'd be nothing without him (he's the team leader, and to be fair has saved them many times) and how they should all be more like him if they ever wanna even get close to the greatness that is him.

His palace would be a decked out European style castle filled with portraits of himself and heraldry. He'd have a massive throne room surrounded by fans, and the people who's lives he's saved.

One of my character is a holy warrior of Bane, though admittedly a less extremist sect than normal.

His shadow would probably be an expression of his own fear and authoritarianism, some wretched creature that executes his friends while he himself is tied to a flaming pyre.

The boss would probably look sweet.

One of my other characters had his personality split into two beings as a result of a magical accident, so either meeting the other would be akin to be meeting their shadow. One is a timid nerd who acts as a support in battle, while the other is a perverted, jaded, pleasure-seeking narcissist. (I am playing the support).

The psychology used in Persona ist based on Jung not Freud.

Easy. A representation of unchecked sadism. The boss would probably a burning, winged torture wheel with her laughing head in the middle attacking with whip-like tongues or something.
She's a lawful evil paladin, rationalizing everything as being "for justice" or "the greater good" (which is, for her, a fascist utopia). But she takes far too much glee in doing her job, and she's extremely in denial about how personal it is for her.

She would have trouble accepting it, because that would mean admitting she doesn't fully represent the Law, which has no weakness. Which means she might only defeat it by embracing it, aaand that would be bad. She'd fall. I mean, she's already evil, but she could become far worse.

How do you find this out? Sounds neat to know.

The Chariot for the first, no idea on the second.Maybe the Sun?

Is shadow like a stando?

ITT people who haven't read Jung.

It's the Jungian definition of Shadow - the repressed/suppressed part of yourself.

Jung notes that most people come to grips with the repressed part of themselves as they go through life through a process known as "individuation". Older people rarely struggle as much as younger people do, since they've gone through this process earlier in life.

There's 4 ways a person tends to deal with these shadowy parts of themselves: 1) outright denial, 2) projection of those qualities onto others, 3) integration of some of those personality elements, or 4) transmutation of the shadow by transforming the conscious beliefs that give rise to it.

Persona kind of simplifies this but generally positive reactions are #3 and #4 while "negative" responses to the Shadow tend to be #1 and #2.