/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes Genera

Orgoth 2.0 Edition

Mk3 list building:conflictchamber.com

Warmahords chat:discord.gg/KmXzbwD

Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
textuploader com / da46m
PP Youtube
youtube.com/user/PrivateerPressPrime

Latest Errata (the actual January one):
files.privateerpress.com/op/errata/WMH-Errata-January-2017-2.pdf

Theme Forces:
files.privateerpress.com/op/errata/Theme Forces.pdf

Steamroller Rules
privateerpress.com/organized-play/steamroller-tournaments

The Giant List of Podcasts and Blogs DED


Table of contents for all NQ issues
privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?4313-Table-Of-Contents-For-All-No-Quarter-Issues

Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Fluff wiki:
warmachine.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

MK3 RULES:
files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Prime.pdf
files.privateerpress.com/allnewwar/Primal.pdf
drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE&usp=drive_web

Warmachine/Hordes Army Creator (WHAC) .apk
charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk

>Mk3 Trollbloods Command
www20.zippyshare.com/v/1tLOuOW7/file.html
>Mk3 Protectorate Command
www20.zippyshare.com/v/LToez2J8/file.html
>Mk3 Circle Orboros Command
www20.zippyshare.com/v/dAMPtJKy/file.html
>Mk3 Cygnar Command
www104.zippyshare.com/v/aG3otFxu/file.html
>Mk3 Legion of Everblight Command
www93.zippyshare.com/v/cJMBctzR/file.html
>Mk3 Khador Command
www92.zippyshare.com/v/JI62A5Ll/file.html

Other urls found in this thread:

conflictchamber.com/#ba1b_-0tewaQaQbvbwbgbgbubbbbbbb9b9
twitter.com/AnonBabble

First for Magnus did nothing wrong!

Have you built/painted anything recently?
Got these Kriel Warriors and Fell Caller asembled and ready to be primed.
I don't know why I assembled the Caber Tossers, these things suck. Maybe they'll get buffed one day to not be complete ass.

I built the Wolves of Oroboros Plastic kit. It was fine really, no problems. I want to put together the reeves but I've heard super bad things about them. They don't seem so bad tho.

>but I've heard super bad things about them

Gameplay or modelling-wise?

Put together Kaya3. Terrible fucking model to assemble. Half plastic half metal. Arm sockets are barely able to hold together. Feels fragile as fuck.

I'm still figuring out how her thighs are supposed to fit in the knee recesses. All the extraneous plastic on Laris wasn't fun either (who thought the umbilical peg was a good idea?).

Is infantry making a comeback /wmg/?

No.

CID-wise, kinda, yeah.

Iron Fangs are currently rolling tourneys, and things like Steelheads, zombie pirates and Steelheads can probably do that too.

Nobody techs against infantry spam now. My friend is wasting all of our local steamrollers lists with his 2x3 Thexus Drudge-spam.

I just built my two replacement man o war shocktroopers, and my first Kodiak. I named him kojack and need to paint them. Posting from phone so no crappy unpainted pics.

Modelling wise, game play wise they've been hitting it out of the park apparently

What is the currency in the iron kingsoms?

I assume goldcoins for most humans (khador,Cygnar,ord,etc.), dwarves and elves?

Cryx? brains and bones?
Cephalyx? limbs?
Trollkin? colorfull stones?
Circle? ??
Everblight? ??
Skorne? ??

Going to a 3 list Steamroller tomorrow, we can use one list all day if we want to so lists are never forced out. Wish me luck Veeky Forums!

>(Xerxis 1) Tyrant Xerxis [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Tiberion [22]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [18]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]

>(Hexeris 1) Lord Tyrant Hexeris [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

>(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Feralgeist [2]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]

Could someone link the Steamroller CID again please? I forgot to save it.

>Cryx? brains and bones?

Cryx doesn't have a currency. They trade using slaves and plunder, basically operating a barter system. Their human and satyxis communities might use money pillaged from the mainland, but I wouldn't expect a single, coherent value or exchange rate.

IIRC Skorne are almost the same as The most bountiful resource in the empire is slaves, so payment is delivered via hours of labour by slaves. There's no 'micro-currency' like dollars or pounds that individual Skorne own and spend, there's the house resources, and the members of a house are essentially dependents to a degree inversely proportional to how high up the food chain they are.

Praetorian Swordsmen for example get what they're given by their superiors, not in currency, but in room, board, equipment, social standing, etc.

Sounds like communism to me.

The protectorate preaches that currency goes against menoth's law and forces it's citizens to abide by a trade system utilizing pearls made out of mud, which are worn on like a necklace.

At least, that's what I remember.

>I will eliminate currency by introducing a new currency!

Why are Menites so retarded?

Where can I find the most up to date rules for Mercenaries?

Perfect communism, actually, as it has unmoored itself from a central authority.

On the other hand, you could interpret it as the logical end of capitalism, too, with corporations (houses) existing as a law unto themselves and having vast masses of dependent 'employees' under their jurisdiction. They barter and trade with one another, after all.

War Room.

The exchange rate is two bones to one brain, obviously. Get with it.

Capitalism with weird fiat fiscal units, I think. But it's not actually as unmoored as all that, the day's labor it is tethered to is "a day of labor towards making a functioning sacral stone".

It's like a penny-loaf, but it instead of "unit of value that will keep you from starving on a day-to-day-basis", it's "unit of value towards staying out of hell".

Surprisingly grounded, actually.

So I've got an old school mk1 Cryx player who comes to my local store, and he loves his infantry (mechanithralls & bane warriors) with Terminus
With my limited collection, which one of these would be better?

Trollbloods Army - 24 / 25 points
[Theme] Band of Heroes

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]
- Fennblade Officer and Drummer [5]


Trollbloods Army - 24 / 25 points
[Theme] Band of Heroes

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
Fell Caller Hero [5]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]


Trollbloods Army - 23 / 25 points
[Theme] Band of Heroes

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
Troll Whelps [4]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]


I'm mostly running Band of Heroes just so I can get rid of tough, and it's not like it costs me anything.

>27 posts in 15 hours

Rolled 2 (1d6)

Quick! Make a tough roll!

Sorry what was that? I was busy playing Guild Ball.

I like the lists, but what do you use as your arcnode in the hexy1 list? Seems like your beasts all want to be in melee or pretty far away

Groupthink, not even once

Has anyone translated the runes on that preview page from no quarter?

Anyone has a size comparison pic for the cygnar plastic jacks?
I only have the old MK2 starter and the Ironclad is a runt compared to my Protectorate jacks, despite him being taller in the background.
Are the others equally runty?

I wanna get into Legion/Abby2. Is this a decent list?

conflictchamber.com/#ba1b_-0tewaQaQbvbwbgbgbubbbbbbb9b9

Legion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation

(Absylonia 2) Absylonia, Daughter of Everblight [+28]
- Carnivean [19]
- Carnivean [19]
- Naga Nightlurker [8]
- Proteus [19]
- Scythean [18]
- Scythean [18]
- Succubus [0(4)]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [0(1)]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
The Forsaken [0(4)]
The Forsaken [0(4)]

I originally had a Reptile Hound in, but at another user's suggestion it was removed. The idea is that if the Sentry is tied up, I'm in a good spot anyway.

I'd go with the first one, personally.

No typhon? You wot M8?

Theme doesn't let you take characters you're not special issued.

Ah didnt mention its themed. My bad.

>[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation

Was busy fucking my eyeballs with those huge spiked dildos, pal.

A little update, got the Fell Caller painted
why don't the older models have shoulder nubs REEEEEEEEEE

Good deal.
I've got a vast collection of just hands and feet, with the occasional wrist, forearm, and ankle thrown in.
Nice. Just two fingers nets me two brains.
Brains ain't worth shit.
Here have a rib cage and hand over all your brains, peasant.
>brains are the Zimbabwean currency here mate!
I can dig up old bones, brains must be fresh.

> Someone else who is angry over the lack of proper troll anatomy.

I KNOW, RIGHT? THEY EVEN SCREWED UP THE NEW WEAPONS CREWS! MALE TROLLS ALL HAVE CHIN AND SHOULDER STUBBLE

WHY IS THE TROLL LINE SO INCONSISTENT AND SCREWY

WHY ARE ALL THESE PROBLEMS STILL HAPPENING ON NEW MODELS?!

Man, these command books are really underwhelming. What the hell PP.

ikr.. me and my game group were really heavily into WarmaHordes in MK2, but when MK3 camea round everyone just.. stopped. And up to this day I have no idea why. Just don't feel like playing the game anymore.

Weird. It isn't even like you couldn't just grumpily keep oldfagging with the existing rules, the way some people have with every edition change ever.

Sorry, I was too busy planning at my next 3 games with friends using proxy markers.

That way we don't have to paint armies, take the time to socialize or actually play the game.

We just plot out the entire game using proxy bases with words written on them, then decide what the probability of all those steps happening are.

Right now, I'm at a 75.62% win percentage based on bell curve distribution among my friends.

Well, when it comes to Trolls, as one question, then pick your own adventure?

Did Brian Dugas sculpt it?

If yes, turn to Page 4 and continue!

If no, throw the model in the fucking trash!

I mean that one on the right might be a female
...a very fat jawed female

So you're saying she's EXTRA THICC

Plastic warjacks are generally somewhat taller. The Cygnar heavies only slightly but the Cygnar lights significantly.

Why not use the Bronzeback as the arcnode? Everything's gonna try to kill it anyway, and anything that gets in mêlée with it can get Beaten Back/scrapped pretty easily, unless it's a gargossal, in which case now your Bronzeback is is mêlée with their gargossal, juice the fucker up and one-round it.

I am the only one that is in some way disturbed by the game lack of stability ?

I mean pratically in a year of MKIII we had :

>MKIII release
>Hey guys in 6 month you will have the balance Errata
>Balance Errata out
>Hey guys now we will start with Theme Force
>Theme Force start to come out
>Hey guys look CID
>Hey guys look new SR2017 change a lot!

It's like the game is ever changing while before we knew that all we had to expect was a 2 book in a year and a revision of SR.

I am not telling that this change are bad, but the lack of a long period of stability made me drop interest in the game. Especially with the Official Forum gone. FB groups aren't good for a discussion like a forum.

Why don't you talk about it with people in your local meta? We play some games, then go get Mexican food and bullshit about changes, nerfs, combos, etc. Then we play more games.

Dead thread, dead game

Fuck man, it's sunday morning. If the dog didn't hide a toy beneath the computer desk I wouldn't even have checked the general.

I have to paint 9 models til Tuesday, so fuck off. No time to shitpost in mememachine general.

I'm okay with busted garbage being re worked in two months, but yes, the lack of stability has been jarring.

PP has always had an issue with development versus release and timeline management, though. Fuck, this game is balanced around shit that won't be out for another two years.

Take the revelator for example. It's rules came out, but other than proxies it couldn't be played. Then, stuff for a period of solid years was designed to "not be too good with the revelator," even though the thing never saw mk2.

Some of the design decisions are starting to make sense with the theme forces. Like the Iron fang kovniks being little 4 pt bros with weapon master and using a lot of their utility. They're super cool in theme, but until now they never saw a list in mk3 (or at least not many).

I think a lot of folks would have just preferred things stood well on their own without this themed garbage and the poor design choices.

Playing against someone in theme when you don't have one yet is pretty miserable. 12 points down is not a fun position to be in and it's an uphill competitive struggle. A lot of factions until recently only has one while some had three. Some of the ones with one didn't even have the model releases to really turn it on, like the venator dakar.

I like the direction they're going with rules coming out with physical releases instead of anthology books that promise things you won't get for three years, but they still haven't reached an end state and it's been a little weird the past year.

It all seems headed in the same direction, which is kind of stable.

SR2017 does introduce a gear-check, though. Solution: if warnoun list, bring many solos. If infantry list, bring many light warnouns.

It's pretty fucked up to be honest.

I'm not sure what they're thinking or if they just don't have a finger on the pulse of the game. I'm sure they go to cons, where it's just a big echo chamber and circle jerk.

But really, at the LGS level, that's where the game is hurting. And I'm saying that as someone that travels a hell of a lot in work and plays at different metas.

It's a meme I know but when I go to shops now while traveling I see a hell of a lot more Infinity and Malifaux than I used to. And a lot less Warmachine.

They really fucked up with pushing Mk 3 out of the door. Then again, they've never really been a good business. Just has really good IP.

Why they continue to let their business managers working, I'm not sure. I can list their failures easily without really even taking time to think about it.

Every foray with their IP into an electronic format. Failure on launch.

Mk 3 without DC. Failure on launch.

Changing their molding process (CoC). Failure on launch.

Their business decision on how to handle online sales. Failure on launch.

Every time they open their mouths, getting rules wrong, making fools out of themselves.


Love their IP. Matt is good at making cool worlds, Doug is a mediocre writer but good at filling in background. Most of their fluff is cringe worthy though.

Really, Matt needs to get someone with an actual education and background in business in there and get rid of W. S.

>the lack of stability has been jarring.

People complain if the game is stagnant, too.

But yeah, I've been waiting on the Revelator for... three years now? And I can't really say the game hasn't been stable. If you pay attention to the competitive side of things, shit that is so overpowered to be bad for the game gets whacked at some point. If anything, Storm Lances have been left to dominate for too damn long (although I wonder if they're going to get it this Wednesday).

Hopefully the other devs can stop Soles from shooting them all in the foot on the SR2017 shit.

>this Wednesday
?
What's going on this Wednesday?

There's frankly a lot to change, so PP introducing many changes into the game is a good thing. I am pretty sure though that 2018 will be more stable than the slow-motion birth of Mk3 that was 2017.

Battle Engine, Bane (and supposedly other models) CID. And Week2 of SR2017 CID.

>Bane (and supposedly other models)
Oh right that's when the Bane Theme is coming out
Oh god what if Bane Warriors get stealth again

>Hopefully the other devs can stop Soles from shooting them all in the foot on the SR2017 shit.
Are you kidding? Soles is doing the smart thing about Proxymachine. It's fucking retarded, and it's asinine levels of autism that people have extrapolated "you can premeasure" to mean "I can preplan every facet of my turn before I execute it."

People who have actually played the game since MK1 understand that allowing premeasuring was meant to allow you to make sure you weren't trying to charge 1/8" beyond your threat range. This is supported by the fact that none of this stupid bullshit takes place in any other tabletop miniature game that allows premeasuring.

I don't think he's debating the validity of Soles' arguments.

He's more talking about how his entrance into the thread was with the sentence

"If it were up to me, then no proxy bases were allowed"

The man has consistently proven he has no ability to talk to people. Especially since while they do make the rules, they have little in the way of enforcing them, so they need to actually convince us to follow it.

>dev tells you what he honestly thinks
>instead of performing literary fellatio to make you feel better
I like their blunt honesty. I'd rather he say what he did than "well our feelings were that we wanted players to be blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah".

Hungerford and Pagani were both honest in that thread without sounding like shitheads.

Soles didn't sound like a shithead, for one, because the quote you've given doesn't exist, and two, because you're probably projecting your feelings onto him. Nothing he wrote was any different from the others, and in fact, the lengthy response he gave to Olannon's long post about "muh precision gameplay" wasn't inflammatory whatsoever.

What exactly did he say that bothered you?

>I am personally in favor of getting rid of markers entirely...Allowing for a single marker is already a huge concession to intent for me and still remains outside the structure of the core rules.

No, that's bad fucking PR. When you write/speak for the company you say what needs to be said and if you want to promote something you speak in positive terms that people care about.

Do you not remember the awful JS insiders for each mkiii faction that completely killed any hype?

People have put up with a lot of PP's shit over the years because at least seemed to have an idea they were going for. Mkiii PR has completely shattered that illusion and that's why no one is putting up with it.

No one bitched about the rule set until they botched their response with knockdown/stationary gang. No one started getting banned until "Skornegy doesn't exist" comment stirred the community.

If you want honesty, it needs to be at forefront or not shown at all. Sole's biggest blunder in mkiii was admitting that they didn't know what they were doing for Skorne in the reddit AMA.

Oh my, how blunt and rude was his... second comment... clarifying his first one. Go pull up an old version of page 5 and grow a pair.

It's a fucking ***discussion*** board on proposed changes for the game, and you want the devs to vet every candid comment they make

Yeah, you know what, they should just not reply to people whatsoever. Throw the change out there, and never reply. That would work so much better.

Jesus christ, go play pic related if conversations with the developers trigger you.

Jesus christ, go back to Munchkin

Soles has some pretty weak moments for sure.

However, that isn't one of them. Truth is, the autistic shit lords that keep whining on the internet about mandoll games where they can't use proxy markers to plan out their entire fucking turn...is pretty dumb.

I've seen people post on Facebook about how this just ruins the game and you can't play good Warmachine without them..they'll quit, etc.

I wonder how us Mk 1 players got by all these years without premeasuring every fucking movement, then playing the turn out without moving models around. How. Fucking. Boring.

Premeasuring was one of the worst things they did. Yep, it prevented failed charges but big fucking deal. Look what it's ushered in. Proxy machine.

I have no problem with premeasuring if the autists wouldn't throw 20 million proxys on the board. I literally watched a game where someone walked up, said what the hell is going on here when two competitive players had all these proxy bases everywhere. Then joked, why don't you just play with bases with names at that point and laughed.

Ugly as sin. Then again, most in this game didn't give a shit how the game looked anyways.

Well, you're not going to get sympathy for me there, I grew up playing Btech, where you did play with empty bases/pieces/coins with names written on them.

But no, I'm not denying Soles has a point in his arguments, because he does. Premeasuring has removed a shitload of guesswork out of the game, and it turns out that guesswork was important to keeping certain strategies and tactics from becoming too powerful. It's removing a lot of random element from the game due to the loss of mistakes.

Now, myself, I don't think this is the spot to change the game. Random elements are super important, and with the amount of dice fixing and control players can exert over things like attack and damage rolls, the game becomes far too clinical and clear.

I also understand why they're trying to make the change here, because this is an easy change to make. No revisions to the core rules, no major changes to the game, just a simple rule to try and stop what an unintended result premeasuring gave.

Honestly, Soles should never reply to anything.

The man is just an expert at saying innocuous things in the worst way. Like, why the fuck would you write "we reserve the right to shape our IP as we see fit" as a statement? Everyone knows the right of final say belongs to PP. it's just silly unnecessary aggression in a post as a dev.

But there's a lot of problems they've got making this change. First and foremost, PP has a very real issue in the fact that they have almost zero control about their competitive environment, especially now without the PG program. They can make this rule all they want, but they're totally dependent on the playerbase to enforce it at all but a very few venues, and more than a few players have already said they don't intend to do so. Some of that is bluster, of course, but if people keep saying it, then enough people might start doing it, and that fractures the competitive scene, which is something you absolutely do not want to happen.

So there's a secondary thing here in the fact that they need to convince a majority of the community that this is a good change, and something they should abide by.

Of course, the introduction of random elements is always something that competitive communities rail against, so it's not going to be easy(look at random turns, a change that would have been good for the game but people hated because muh open info).

And this is where Soles comes in. He might have a point, but he's doing a pretty piss poor job of conveying why he has a point.

Sure, I used the worst of his statements, but that doesn't change the fact that much of his discussion has this underlying idea that he knows best and everyone else is stupid, which is absolutely not what he needs to be doing.

Honestly, you're just projecting your own personal bias and butthurt onto Soles. I don't know what he did to mentally rape your eyesockets however many months ago. But I bet if I replaced a Soles post with, say, Hungerford or Pagani's name, you'd find absolutely nothing wrong with it.

I see it as him admitting that they can't enforce this sort of thing globally. There's no PP police who will smash your models for planning out your turns at the lgs. But, they don't want to see it, so they're placing a restriction on an event they can enforce, which also informs people how they'd prefer the game to be.

>They can make this rule all they want, but they're totally dependent on the playerbase to enforce it at all but a very few venues, and more than a few players have already said they don't intend to do so.
PP can't enforce local tournaments whatsoever, this is correct. However, the majority of people who make the rounds playing local tournaments are doing so in preparation of major PP-sponsored events. Which WILL use the changed proxy rules. Now, as a tournament player myself, I make use of a certain amount of proxy bases to assist with tricky moves (through free strike zones, around terrain, etc) but I would follow the rule explicity to not set myself up for failure at, say, Lock n' Load.

>So there's a secondary thing here in the fact that they need to convince a majority of the community that this is a good change
There is a large portion of the community that is in favor of the change (or rather, reversion) , and had detailed their negative play experience on the other side of the proxy user. This change isn't being pulled out of Hungerford's ass. Being in the local area for PP I had voiced my complaints about the overuse of proxies, as I'm sure many others have. In early MK3, NOBODY thought about planning out turns with proxies. If you suggested it to players at the time as a use of premeasuring, they would have called it what the devs are calling it now: an abuse of the rules. Just because some pseudo-celebrity tourney players popularized it doesn't mean it is a good thing.

>And this is where Soles comes in. He might have a point, but he's doing a pretty piss poor job of conveying why he has a point.
He said nothing that other developers haven't said. Soles' response to Olannon was nothing new that we didn't see in the OP posted by Hungerford about their rationale. And as someone who is against the use of proxies (but understand points supporters have in favor for them) I had no problem understanding what he was conveying in his post.

Pagani and Shick wouldn't write that way in the first place.

Pagani writes very short concise snippets while shick tries to hype how X is a great thing. I mean I don't trust shick but he does know how to write to entice.

It's not that Soles is skullfucking me, he keeps on whipping out his dick near my eye which makes me think of skullfucking. The man says way too much somehow in too few words.

Hey guys, me and a friend are playing our very first games today. I've been collecting Menoth for a while just because I like their look so I've got quite a bit to choose from, but he's just started a Cryx army and I know all he has are jacks and a colossal. We're gonna do 50 points max (probably less, around 40, he doesn't have a whole lot built yet).

Any suggestions on what I should bring? I have the Mk 3 faction book and faction deck for Menoth but don't think I'm gonna bother with theme forces this time, but here's what I've got to choose from:

Feora 1 and 2
Kreoss 1
Reznik WoA
5 Daughters of the Flame
10 Flameguard with officer & standard
10 Cleansers with officer & standard
10 Zealots with Monolith bearer
10 Deliverers
10 Errants
5 Cinerators
3 Vanquishers
1 Crusader
2 Repenters
1 Revenger
1 Avatar

I want the game to be fun but I also don't want to be completely helpless against his heavies. Help a newbie out?
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard

>I have no problem with premeasuring if the autists wouldn't throw 20 million proxys on the board. I literally watched a game where someone walked up, said what the hell is going on here when two competitive players had all these proxy bases everywhere. Then joked, why don't you just play with bases with names at that point and laughed.

Honestly, what does it matter to you? Those players were clearly fine with using an excessive amount of proxies and markers and your spectating hardly matters at that point.

I'm all for cleaning up the table from clutter and adding more stipulations so that things are more clear(proxy bases must be labelled with a front arc, and must be replaced with the actual model asap, as an example), but the current ruling is too draconian and really it hurts the casual players more than the WAAC fags anyway.

WAAC fags will always do something to annoy people like you, just don't play against them if you can help it. They will play Haley2 or some flavour of the month bullshit, they'll use excessive amounts of widgets, they'll try to cheese you in an argument to sneak out a win, etc. There's nothing to do about that.

Premeasuring has overall been very healthy for the game in terms of settling disputes before they even happen. I've never once in Mk3 had any problems with model placement or distances with my opponent, and I've only called over a judge for a rules clarification or as someone who can hold a laser or measure with steady hands.

Premeasuring is a thing now, and it's a joke that PP didn't expect the game to come to this when they introduced it. A player should be able to do what they like during their turn so long as it's clear and on their clock. If it annoys you then sorry, but I personally prefer to see my opponent visually plan his turn on the table than them sitting silently in the think tank for 20-30 minutes.

I hear ya and I appreciate your point. Maybe certain players just approach the game for a certain level of enjoyment/experience and when those two viewpoints overlap, shit happens.

I think you are spot on about guesswork keeping certain strategies and tactics from becoming too powerful. Watching people measure out the movement + range of their guns, then comparing that to the opponents unit. Then moving up a nut hair outside of that range means either the other player has a Feat that protects that unit, has a defensive tech/spell to protect that unit (Assuming the opponent doesn't have a to hit buff) or just hoping to hell the opponent misses and rolls bad.

But really think this through. Let's say in Mk 2 you were going to go for an assassination and wasn't sure. That element of risk was part of the plan right? And was exciting no?

Now, and I have watched this happen several times in Mk 3, you will see a player do this;

Put out a proxy to where something needs to go and clear a charge lane.
Put out another proxy to his other heavy when that charge lane is cleared to clear another heavy, removing a Fury transfer to a light.
Put out 4 proxy bases of a ranged unit that can get withing LOF and range of the caster.
Put out a caster proxy where it can charge, then sling spells at the caster.
Put out another proxy where another ranged model can put down a shot.

Then, figure out I have a 70% here, a 80% here with a backup, a 90% here..so my total chance is X%.

Then I've watched the other player, after sitting there watching this guy explain his turn for 10 minutes before a model has moved, say "Well just roll the dice then and see if it happens"

What. A. Game.

>Those players were clearly fine with using an excessive amount of proxies and markers and your spectating hardly matters at that point.

Actually, no they weren't. Everyone does it when they want to win but everyone also admits it looks like ass when it's happening.

And that DOES matter at a LGS. It's a meme but seriously, watch someone at a LGS walk up to two different tables and tell me what's going to grab their attention:

A table full of Infinity terrain, painted up with painted models on the board.

A table full of unpainted metal/plastic with neon proxy bases every where.

So how many of the people who complain about proxies ruining the visuals of our tables actually play painted?

I know I do, because I enjoy games that look better more. I don't judge you if you don't judge me for making precision measurements. Because I also enjoy precise and interesting games over random BS. If I wanted that I'd be playing some flavor of Warhammer.

>but the current ruling is too draconian and really it hurts the casual players more than the WAAC fags anyway
lol what? Casual players do not use proxy bases. Casual players do not go to Broken Egg, Muse on Minis, Discount Games, etc. and buy a bunch of proxy bases that interlock/magnetize with their custom measuring widgets.

>Premeasuring is a thing now, and it's a joke that PP didn't expect the game to come to this when they introduced it.
Why is it a joke? 40k doesn't end up like this. Guild Ball hasn't ended up like this, and they outright let you use proxy shitstorms.

Everybody understood "premeasuring" to be with the tape measure only, and proxy bases to use only when arms/bits collide with each other. PP didn't spell it out in the book because they assumed that most people wouldn't be as autistic as tourney players have been.

>Actually, no they weren't. Everyone does it when they want to win but everyone also admits it looks like ass when it's happening.

Who is "everyone", you're starting to reference people and their ideas that I have no relation to. No one in my meta gives a flying fuck about proxy bases and markers.

>A table full of unpainted metal/plastic with neon proxy bases every where.

The ruling is based on Steamroller rules, which are strictly tournament rules. I know that everyone defaults to Steamroller rules when they play games, because that's the sort of community we have, but they're designed by default to be played on a competitive level, not necessarily to impress every normie that wanders into the LGS.

Having unpainted/unbased models on the table, 2D terrain, low quality tokens are all equally as unappealing for an outsider to look at, but none of those are restricted in the Steamroller document either.

Right faggots I just got back, here's how shit went down.

>R1 Lost
Hexeris1 v Zaal1. Immortals are a pain in the dick, but the real winner here was his Archidon under Last Stand. It killed my Agonizer, then Orin Midwinter, then on its last attack it crit my Cannoneer, threw it into my Gladiator, he spiked to FUCK on both of their rolls, then because they were knocked down his Immortals could swarm my caster. Felt real bad.
>R2 Lost
Xerxis1 v Assram. Pretty grindy. Ferox did fuck all but die, Cetrati were gods, but in the end him being able to control a flag with any of his models on the table did it. I was forced to leave Xerxis open and he died.
>R3 Won
Makeda3 v Kreoss1. Karn failed to hit 8 on 3d6 and died like a bitch because of it, which was a serious pain considering the list is Makeda, Karn, and 80 points of support. I rushed over to a flag and started scoring, he couldn't do too much about it, and he ended up clocking out.
>R4 Won
Makeda3 v Karchev. I picked off a few heavies relatively safely, then he went all in and left a charge lane open between Makeda and Karchev, I got there on the last damage roll. PS17+3d6 is one hell of a thing.

>lol what? Casual players do not use proxy bases.
Weird. I just played against a new player a few days ago and distinctly remember him placing two proxies down to represent where his two jacks should go lateron. That was SR17, but I forewent telling him to stop for obvious reasons. New players don't need any bullshit regulations. The game has plenty legitimate regulations for them to remember already.

>So how many of the people who complain about proxies ruining the visuals of our tables actually play painted?
I play painted, and not just "I slapped my primary colors on the model" but I've colored everything as the OP packets state: fur, skin, metal, leather, etc is all a different color.

I'm also a faggot who is somewhat underwhelmed by 2D terrain (typically I can convince painted opponents to put trees on forests and use actual buildings). The only thing that should be 2D are hills (because balancing on dice is so 2000s) and trenches (because how do you 3D a trench).

>Having unpainted/unbased models on the table, 2D terrain, low quality tokens are all equally as unappealing for an outsider to look at, but none of those are restricted in the Steamroller document either.

If that's the game you want, have fun with it.

And yes, PP wants to impress normies that walk into LGS. Of course they do. You might not give a shit but I can guarantee they do.

And Steamroller isn't a bible. It's mutable, can be changed (like what they're doing) if it's in their best interest as a company and in the best interest of the game. This is both IMO.

>lol what? Casual players do not use proxy bases. Casual players do not go to Broken Egg, Muse on Minis, Discount Games, etc. and buy a bunch of proxy bases that interlock/magnetize with their custom measuring widgets.

Most professional/competitive players already know how to eyeball distances correctly. This ruling will, realistically, barely affect them. Most people at your LGS probably do not use proxies to the extent that most people are complaining about, but they are still hit with the same restrictions as the best players in the world.

>Why is it a joke? 40k doesn't end up like this. Guild Ball hasn't ended up like this, and they outright let you use proxy shitstorms.

I live in the North West, and I can tell you that absolutely Guild Ball players use the same level of proxying as in Mk3, the only reason you don't see people complain about it is because GB has alternating player activation, and the model count is a fraction of what Warmachine games have, so it's not as apparent. Warmachine players definitely take it to the extreme, but the evidence of how premeasuring would be used was already pretty evident in other game systems.

I play 100% painted.

The game is becoming VassalMachine. Most games look like ass now. Not that most games ever looked that good but at least it was a model and not a orange glowy marker with words in dry erase on it.

>Most professional/competitive players already know how to eyeball distances correctly. This ruling will, realistically, barely affect them.

But it's ironic, some of the newer 'top players' that sink their savings and life into this game are the loudest ones bitching. It's hilarious and sad.

>If that's the game you want, have fun with it.

It's completely out of my control, as I'm only one player. I try to get my army looking nice, paint front arc markers, and use 3D terrain. I try to do my part for the game the same way you do yours. But ultimately it's not in our control to figure out how our meta shapes up to be.

This game has always been known to attract the type of wargamers who want a highly competitive precision wargame. I'm sorry to say that it's not the intention of most players to showcase the game. The outcome of releasing pre-measuring to this community should have been the most predictable thing in the world, really.

>Most professional/competitive players already know how to eyeball distances correctly.
Most will also continue to use bases/widgets to make sure that 1.) I agree with the measurements so there's no surprises when they activate, and 2.) because why gamble in a serious setting when you have the option to measure it out.

>This ruling will, realistically, barely affect them.
Hoo boy, have you not been reading the CID forum? They're the ones barking loudest. (Probably the ones who bought BEG and other overpriced "laser-cut precision measuring devices")

>Most people at your LGS probably do not use proxies to the extent that most people are complaining about
There are numerous people who have multiple proxy bases, connected by widgets, to plan out the precise route each model will take. On feat/assassination turns, they spend upwards of 10-15 minutes just doing this (and then I get to laugh when their dice suck and the plan unravels). They are typically the kind of players who get their names up on Discount Games Inc.

>I live in the North West, and I can tell you that absolutely Guild Ball players use the same level of proxying as in Mk3
Where? My NW's GB died in the summer when MK3 came out.

>the evidence of how premeasuring would be used was already pretty evident in other game systems
Again, premeasuring to this extreme is not seen in 40k, the other largest and most similar system.