Nazis are a cliche enemy. I don't think anyone's arguing this...

Nazis are a cliche enemy. I don't think anyone's arguing this. What I want to do is create a villain who's obsessed with the glory of the former American Empire. Let's say it's 2040 and the Union has broken up. Maybe he's a former General brought out of cryo ala the nazis in Hellboy. How would you do this villain? Would he quote Abraham Lincoln? Obsess over rebuilding the statue of liberty and reuniting the American States? World domination obviously

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He would recruit former soldiers to his cause, or even rouge regiments

>How would you do this villain?
Southerner. Still bitter about the Civil War.

A villainous figure with an obsession for restoring America to perceived former glory?

You're not stronger than America, son!

Gonna post some Freedompunk shit while waiting for discussion

Yes, yes, we know, you hate Trump like everyone else. There's another election soon enough.

Yes! Exactly! Nazis are cliche, and I'm not trying to go antiamerican, I bleed red white and blue like the rest. But I love the idea of some bitter CIA or Army guy coming out of cyro sleep and going around resurrecting secret American military projects for his mad scheme


Isn't this just Shadowrun's New Revolution from the Crash 2.0 era?

>Be me, American general in 2020
>Our administration is crumbling, they're going to hang the president for crimes against humanity
>Fuck all of them, our country has betrayed us and the dream
>me and my comrades go into cyro sleep, we'll wait this shit out and then try again
>30 years later
>Wake up, I'm the only military personal who survived the cyro process
>The union has broken up, China, India and fucking Africa of all places are the new top dogs
>No. No no no. This can't be. This wasn't how it was supposed to be.
>Start traveling around America in secret recruiting former military units and unearthing top secret weapons programs that have lain dormant for decades
>Recreate the consciousness of my best friend, a crazy CIA agent, and download it into countless clone bodies
>American will be whole again. The world will burn for what they did to us

I'll have to google it, if the setting already exists that would be fantastic. But shadowrun is straight sci-fi right? I'm looking for near future, like over the next five decades

In 2040? Might as well have a British villain salty over the outcome of the War of the Roses



We actually call that the War of Northern Aggression.

150 years later and southerners are still salty

>Hurr durr muh states rights


I like this. Post more!

Americana Empire from Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed.

>Hurr durr, muh slavery

>1 Year Later
>I've recruited several regiments worth of angry veterans
>There were many groups in America who were held accountable for the actions of the 2020 administration. They're still bitter. They've now begun secretly supporting my just cause
>my cloned best friend has recreated the CIA and keeps downloading his conciseness into new bodies. The entire intelligence agency is just him
>I located a massive de-commissioned Drone hanger. I now have enough predators to turn the country of my choosing to glass
>But finally, after months of searching, I've found it
>Project Wormwood, the ultimate weapon, hidden in a secret base in the Colorado mountains
>My forces converge on it, the Colorado Army doesn't even try and stop us
>Wait, what's this?
>The Freedom Defense Squad, some sort of unaffiliated special forces group, is there to oppose me
>My plan to capture Project Wormwood is foiled, and they destroy the base so I can never rebuild it.
>Next time FDS. This is far from over

We still have people salty about the outcome of the Civil War. I doubt that will change in the next 23 years if it hasn't in the last 150 years.

Are GitS and Appleseed in the same universe? Also, how has the American Empire not destroyed the USA? The fuck is Utah and friends gonna do?


> Hurr durr, let's burn, pillage, rape, and slaughter civilians because we have the moral high ground

I hope General Sherman burns in hell for what he did.

>the deposed American General Warmonger isn't a cliche enemy

specifically in the context of a near future post-america? Please elaborate, I'd love example for my worldbuilding

Wasn't what you are talking about similar to the premise of BioShock Infinite's setting?

The Confederacy was lying to the people of the deep south, telling them that they were winning the war. All Sherman did was show them the truth that their planter masters would not.

Of all the people that did nothing wrong, Sherman is most deserving of that title

> t. Johnny "The Confederacy dindunuffin, it was a goo' boy" Reb

Maybe it's neutral territory between the Ruskies and the American Empire.

I think it has the same author.

>Five years ago, I lost 30,000 men in the blink of an eye... and the world just fuckin' watched.
>Tomorrow, there will be no shortage of volunteers, no shortage of patriots.

Every single person Sherman killed had it coming.

>A the only civil war that happened in America
>Called anything else but the American Civil War

Literally the only good guy in the entire conflict. Burned everything on his wake? Well, he ALWAYS gave a choice for surrender. It was ALWAYS an option.
This is what fight to the bitter end means - you get burned to the ground.

you literally started it

Pole here and we call it Secession War, since "civil war" is never used as a proper name in Polish language, but rather as a term describing a specific type of conflict.

> only civil war that happened in America
It wasn't a civil war. It was a war between the United States of America and the Confederate States of America. The USA invaded and subjugated the CSA.

>Start a war with no capacity to actually fight it
>Get butthurt when you get raped
You all had it comming

> Confederacy had wartime propaganda, that justifies the rape of Atlanta

> Indiscriminately slaughters civilians because of their nationality when destroying infrastructure would've sufficed
> Did nothing wrong

Confederates had their fair share of warcrimes, but nothing that measures up to Sherman's atrocities.

The elderly, women, children, and infants had it coming user?

> Slaughters noncombatants and burns churches
> "Good guy"

>Part of country secedes
Only after you became Reb, Johnny

The confederates fought a war for an outmoded and primitive socioeconomic system that was the very reason they had zero hope of winning the war.

In the dialect of my people, we call them, "Losers".

>Start a war impossible to win
>Cry like a little bitch for next 150 years when you lose
Nothing like true Confederate spirit

>A war between the states of a country
>Not a civil war

It wasn't one country. It was two countries.

States had the right to secede before the Civil War. Confederates wanted to be left alone, but no, Northernors just had to have it all.

Who cares?
It's war, sonny boy. It's ugly, it's brutal, it's inhuman. The entire fucking point is to kill as many enemies as possible and cripple them so bad they will never even think of rising their head again.
As far as I'm concerned, Sherman did perfect job.

>Collection of states that failed to secede

>Seriously being surprised a country tries to prevent own fragmentation

> implying the war was about slavery
It's a sad day when even Veeky Forums ignores historical reality in favor of the simplistic propaganda perpetuated by hollywood pop culture.

Seceding because you lose an election isn't democracy though. If you split every time a vote doesn't go your way, eventually every state will be composed of one person. Egalitarian democracy means going along with the will of the people even if it doesn't match you- and it also means that nobody gets to be more equal than others.

Seceding because you lost an election is the equivalent of going, "Okay, we'll put it to a vote."/"What, I lost!? Fuck this, I don't care about a vote, I'm still doing it my way!". Ie, childish, selfish, shortsighted, and dumb.

The states had the right to secede and the country has no right to use violence to try to stop them.

Bullshit, the Confederacy had dozens of opportunities to march on D.C, by the time we had non-timid leadership it was too late.

> Justifies a blatant imperialist power grab

Shadowrun is NOT straight Sci-fi.
Its sci-fi fantasy. That said it still works better than most cyberpunk systems even with the magic/elves/ and orcs yanked out.

That said I suggest shadowrun. Its fun as hell and everything I've seen posted would work there.

no you

Secession was okay until the south tried it

It wasn't just that the vote didn't go their way, it was that the north rammed through a candidate who had openly declared his intent to violate the laws of the country. A lawless tyrant had been proclaimed by the north, and the south wasn't going to just sit back and let a lawless federal government violate their rights.

>implying that it wasn't
Your historical revisionism and lost-cause confederacy are every bit as fictional as klingons, user.

So it was never okay to begin with? What made the Confederate States of America any different? What invalidated their state's rights?

> wikipedia
> proof of anything
Anyone can easily edit that article to say whatever they wanted it to say. It's garbage, nothing more.

> Cites Wikipedia
> Claims it's a valid source

Then tell us what the war was really about, Mr Lincoln

Maybe you should have gone for a peaceful secession instead of starting trouble you couldn't finish. :^)

>a candidate who had openly declared his intent to violate the laws of the country.
what did he mean by this

>Gets btfo
>B-b-but Wikipedia!

They tried, the Union refused to leave or acknowledge CSA territory.

I know its popular to downplay the role of slavery in the civil war, but it kinda was part of it.

It wasn't all about slavery of course, but the right to own other human beings kinda was an important part of why the south wanted to leave.

Hell, they invented sharecropping after the war just because owning people was so convenient. It always has been.

It goes beyond that. Democracy is largely mob rule, and was unstable due to westward expansion. (See: Bleeding Kansas)

There was more than enough basis for secession, as the regional split was large enough for such an extended period of time. Elections were consistently north vs south.
>implying the secession wasn't peaceful before Lincoln declared war

You can advertise your ignorance all you want, but it's usually poor form. And worse to advertise your refusal to learn.
>all those citations at the bottom of the article
unfuck thyself


> Refuses to cite valid source to begin with
> B-b-but my citations

>>implying the secession wasn't peaceful before Lincoln declared war
Someone started shelling federal property first, senpai.

>Bullshit, the Confederacy had dozens of opportunities to march on D.C, by the time we had non-timid leadership it was too late.
They tried to push into the North several times, what are you talking about?

Not to mention the Confederacy was losing the naval war from the start and was cut in half when New Orleans fell.

Well yeah. Leaving because you can't own humans anymore is sorta bullshit.
No you can't quit and leave just because we all decided and voted that you can't own and torture darker skinned humans anymore.

Maybe its my white guilt talking, but letting slavers just walk away and go be slavers somewhere else seems dumb.
So does voting on it, then letting it happen somewhere just because they claim they are leaving so the vote doesn't matter.

Fuck slavers.

god that movie was shit

Yes, elderly women, children and infants keeping slaves absolutely deserved to die when they were fighting and supporting the war machine devoted to keeping those people enslaved. Their deaths were not a loss to anyone.

If they didn't want to die, they could have surrendered and freed their slaves voluntarily. But they didn't, so they chose their fate, and nobody should mourn them for even a second.

No it wasn't. Only a tiny fraction of the population of the south owned slaves. Why do you think thousands upon thousands of southerners were willing to fight and die, considering that practically none of them owned slaves? Slavery wasn't on any of their minds, they were there to defend their homeland from invaders who were trying to force the south to accept a lawless tyrant.

>Why do you think thousands upon thousands of southerners were willing to fight and die, considering that practically none of them owned slaves?

Because they were fucking morons.

The war was because of slavery - everyone who MATTERED in the South owned slaves, and just like today the people with money and power were making the decisions, while duping a bunch of poor, gullible idiots to fight a pointless war against their own self-interest.

Problem is that the American players are gonna wanna join him instead.

That fort was in the middle of Charleston harbor. No reasonable nation would permit another nation to control forts in its harbors. The south offered to negotiate for the fort, but Lincoln flatly refused and instead sent even more ships to reinforce the fort. It was either shell the fort, or let the north build up even more forces there to strangle the south.

If someone pulls a gun and points it at you, do you wait for him to fire before you try to defend yourself? No, you blow the fucker away.

Johnny Reb on suicide watch

What's with spiders and that film?

Millions of poor people today are stupid enough to defend tax cuts for the insane wealthy, a class to which they will never belong and an action from which they will receive no benefit. It's not that far fetched

I was gonna type something to this effect
Poor white southerners went to war for the same reasons poor majority peoples always go to war. The rich people in their culture made it sound like a good idea.

Also, poor whites had a prideful culture of, "at least we aint colored" to fall back on. If the free blacks were allowed to be as poor as them as well as free, then would they be any better than the blacks?

Being fundamentally better than black people is very important to racist whites.

I know you just posted this because of the civil war memery, but honestly The Proprietor is a perfect example of a "cosmic horror" type villain with an American flavour.

> Millions of poor people today are stupid enough to defend tax cuts for the insane wealthy
No they don't. They defend tax cuts for everyone. The wealthy only get a larger cut because they earn more and thus pay more. If you cut everyone's taxes by 5%, who's going to end up saving more, a person earning 50k a year or a person earning 100k a year? The person earning 100k, of course. They're earning twice as much, so that same 5% means twice as much money in total for the 100k person than the 50k person.

>the only civil war that happened in America
You could describe the American Revolution as a British Civil War, it certainly was at the beginning.

different user, but:
>Rebellious province being put back into the country
I guess I'm just Yuro, but I don't see anything imperialistic about a contry that curbs rebellion within own borders. No matter what was proclaimed and what Confederacy claimed, it was a rebellous region of US of A. End of fucking topic.

> durrr they fought because they were RACISTS
And now you fall back on the same old tactic that liberals always do when they have nothing to back up their arguments. Just scream "RACISM!"

>Thinks that cuts to top marginal income tax rates will ever affect the poor

>Thinks that any person who's currently poor will ever pay a cent of inheritance tax when the basic deduction is over $5 million



Holy shit I actually can't stop laughing.

That fort had been there for 50 years already.

You can't claim you aren't part of a country, then go out and capture a police station to prove it.

You will get shot.

Do not attack a fort that was already there, because you decided you don't have to follow the vote, and decided to leave. You don't get to leave cause you disagree with the vote. You definitely don't get to keep the fort that was already there.

>No they don't.

Yeah they do, they support the idea of credits and deductions which massively favor the rich and that they generally don't qualify for (you ain't taking the IRA contribution credit if you're living paycheck to paycheck)

>t. poor guy defending tax cut for top 1%

Yeah, but the brits have had several civil wars, so the name "the British Civil War" could apply to a whole bunch of different wars.

>Bitches that calling racism "racism" is unfair to racists.

"Hey, we just want to establish a racially-based system that keeps one race permanently deprived of rights and enslaved to give us free labor - what on EARTH is racist about that?"

Oh yeah, 100%, I'm just saying it's not the only time a civil war has been fought in America.

England alone had like 8 civil wars.