Beyond the whole "Confucian jihadist ogre" shtick, which I personally found to be cool...

Beyond the whole "Confucian jihadist ogre" shtick, which I personally found to be cool, it felt to me like there was a lot of wasted potential about the Qunari as antagonists. It almost seemed like at some earlier point in the story there was a real intention to show them as a viable option to align oneself with, so to speak, with a sympathetic motivation and understandable appeal. There was more focus on people who willingly joined them and were genuinely happy with it and less on the secret police brainwashing everyone. They offered a clean, safe, harmonious existence (if under a very regimented society that doesn't place a ton of value on "fun") and a religion focusing on personal growth and fulfillment (it had a bit of a Buddhist vibe) rather than supplication, which I'd imagine might not even sound all that bad to the average medieval peasant.

Then Bioware happened.

How would you fix the Quanri depiction and their place in a theoretical narrative so as to make them the complex, morally ambiguous antagonist faction they could be?

Step one: remove them from the Dragon Age universe, which became an SJW cesspool where nothing interesting can exist.

Qunari was SJW-shit. Dragon Age was a mistake.

Not until Inquisition, and then in one single dialogue. Sten in Origins, IIRC, literally cannot grasp the CONCEPT of a woman warrior.


Brave attempt, OP, but you've triggered the /pol/tards. This thread is doomed. I'd suggest waiting a few weeks and trying again. Preferably on another website.

I feel that in origins they were a nice addition, even if it was only Sten you meet, because the Qunari were nicely different from the otherwise very standard fantasy tropey feel that DA:O otherwise had. I however did not like how went from being Confucian-esque , to being Communists in the span of two games. Also I cannot understand why there where those collared Qunari mage slaves running around along the Qunari warparties in Kirkwall.

>Contributes nothing to the thread except complaining about /pol/
You're as bad as they are

Honestly, running them exactly as you described them there makes them an interesting civilisation to have in a setting. I'm not a fan of morally grey antagonists in a setting, but there's no reason why that description wouldn't work as an unaligned civilisation that the players can either win over or topple in pursuit of defeating another big bad.

At least the shemale Quanri made for some good art.

I liked trespasser.
Had great level design, pretty good story, nice progress.
Even though Patrick Weekes uses cis as a term, he knows how to write and be lead writer.
David Gayder is gone.
>I actually have hype for next dragon age

Take them as you described them, change the name, and don't put them in a setting with a player who liked Dragon Age II.

I wish the next game would take place in the Tevinter Imperium (seems to be that's where it's going anyway, so I guess that's a good sign) and show both the Imperium and Qunari as viable "options to align oneself with" with their own pros and cons rather than making one the ultimate evil and the other the necessary evil.

Like, yeah, the Qunari don't give you a lot of personal freedom but assuming for a moment that the system works as intended (and it's a little disingenuous to point out one that clearly doesn't as "inherently flawed"), you wouldn't need it because your life is being managed by intelligent people who want what's best for you and your community. Plus, you get running water and advanced medicine in an otherwise shitty Middle Ages world.

The Tevinter Imperium may be built on the backs of slaves and could be said to be an entire system which exists pretty much for the purpose of perpetuating the hedonism of a tiny percentage of powerful wizards, but on the other hand, they DO offer the opportunity for significant social mobility (in theory, at least), have a rich and vibrant culture which goes back millennia, and, well, is just a whole lot more fun to live in than the Qunari lands (assuming you're a mage).

It basically comes down to whether you think it's preferable to abuse people for the sake of social harmony or for the sake of the enjoyment of whoever doesn't get abused. Kind of a fantasy version of "strawman Americans as depicted by communists vs. strawman communists as depicted by Americans, circa 1960".

>seanchan with horns
The Qunari went through an interesting transition. They started off pretty much as the Seanchan and were fairly ambiguous.

Then in DA2 they turned into dicks and then in DAI they turned into even bigger dicks that we were meant to sympathize with because of how "progressive" they were.

Imma let you finish, OP, but...

For all I know that's "degenerate" in his language. I mean, its bioware, so its probably not, but that image alone isn't an argument for anything.

>he knows how to write and be lead writer.
C`mon, Patrick, stop it.

Did they actually have any progressive element beyond that one single dialogue about sorta acknowledging the existence of transsexuals? I mean, it's not inconceivable they could've been given a single positive trait to round up or something. They're still treated so overwhelmingly negatively I find it hard to believe you were meant to generally admire them.

And the obligatory reminder that Bull was a professional liar from an organisation that values lying and who's name means Liar. He also had a sever psychological breakdown and visited the professional brainwashers.

I don't think that we can take anything he says at face value.

Or it might actually be a genuine term for a genuine condition under the Qun but only a temporary state that gets rectified by the brainwashers at the next practical opportunity.

Iron Bull loved to wax lyrical about how great the Qunari are. Now obviously given his job you would expect that but you're never really given an option to say "fuck no it sounds awful" like you were in Origins.

Combine that with the whole Krem situation and the Qun's apparent view of gender and sex the player is definitely meant to sympathize with them.

>can never call him out on his bullshit
>has modern views on social justice
>everyone else is an illiterate oppressed idiot

>They're still treated so overwhelmingly negatively

A society that is strong, provides a basic standard of living and safety for all of it's people, seems to be highly resistant to corrupt administrators, values skill reguardless of notions of nobility and wealth and has developed technology beyond any of it's much older neighbours.

Admittedly it's probably not much fun if you are a rebellious entitled asshole or a mage but there is no pleasing everyone.

the blights tend to ruin a lot of development due to them lasting for years and killing millions

What were they dicks about in 2?

Literally everything.

I thought they mostly just kept to themselves.

Did you somehow miss them sacking the city? It took up like a 1/3 of the game.

They try to forcibly conquer Kirkwall.

Didn't they do that because the pirate chick stole some holy book or something?

She stole the book years ago. The Arishok sacked Kirkwall because he was pissed off he hadn't found the book.

I feel like it'd be more interesting if Qunari had no concept of gender beyond physiology. It doesn't seem like their society would even have a cultural difference between them outside of reproductive stuff.

Then the SJWs could be happy because they have an agender society where your genitals don't matter unless you're breeding, and we could be happy because we'd have a Qun that makes internal sense.

And they just sacked one city over it? Spineless fags.

They sacked Kirkwall because of mounting aggression perpetrated by anti-Qun fanatics. They were pretty much the good guys throughout the whole thing.

That's how I solved this case of bad writing.

>The Iron Bull lies.

You can get him to admit that most of his friends and companions in the south would be killed under Qunari rule, that the Qunari are wrong about magic and they are extremely intolerant.

You can also make him get burned, go native and lose any chance to ever return.

>Values skill
Unless you are a woman that is good with a sword.
Or a man that is a good administrator.
Or a mage.
Or a farmer that would like to be paid for their work

>Develop technology

They have black powder and mediocre cannons. Andrastian's have magic that can stop dragonfire, turn a dreadnought to ashes, heal the sick and as of lately teleport across massive areas via the recovered Eluvians.

They really just come across as a paper tiger. They were better in Origins, where they were mysterious as fuck and Sten refused to try and explain them.

I mean it makes sense.

>Sten refused to try and explain them
Which from a military standpoint is exactly the position a Sten should have taken.

Sten was a Sten through and through, alright.

They weren't as open about it, but they were definitely complicit in instigating violence and tension. Keep in mind they planted agents and spies throughout the city, and were spreading the teachings of the Qun against the local government's wishes.

>Keep in mind they planted agents and spies throughout the city
They were looking for their book. How do you expect them to discover it if they don't bother to investigate?
>and were spreading the teachings of the Qun against the local government's wishes.
And? This isn't against the law. The fanatics tried to steal their weapons, killed their diplomatic delegation, and attempted to incite violence against them at every turn. It was only after repeated violence against them that they chose to act. And even then, they would agree to leave were you to return their property.

>And? This isn't against the law
When you've been told to stop doing a thing by the ruler of the city and his entire administrative body, including the judiciary, and you keep on doing it then you have broken the law.

Dages is wasted potential as a whole.

Interesting perspective you got there...

Generall, that's how medieval(-esque) law works: "What ruler said is the law"

Why the ellipsis?

But he's right. Even if you claim that the Qunari still hadn't technically broken the law, they showed outright contempt for Kirkwall's ruler and government, blatantly enacting their own agenda despite their hosts putting up with them. They attempted to subvert, then conquer, the city because they were too obstinate to leave.

its bait you fucks

Its interesting to consider their super collectivist, hierarchical and expansionist philosophy since it offers a great deal MORE for people who have only known either mage centric slave empire or a classical feudal/medieval society. If you're a slave, serf or a minority race it is clearly a much more compelling option.

But I guess nuance is a lost art for bioware.

They can still come up with cool ideas, but just add too much modern "commentary" on top.

By all means, cite any point in the game in which anyone said teaching people about the Qun was not allowed.

Explain why the Qun's diplomatic delegation whose purpose was to educate and inform was welcomed rather than shunned, and seen as a positive development in the aftermath of fanatic attacks against the Kirkwall Qunari.

There's absolutely zero evidence to support the notion that any crime was committed. Every single act of aggression was initiated by the fanatics against the Qun. And the Qun pursued peaceful resolutions to every single act of violence.

That was the reason they were there in the first place. They sack Kirkwall because between all the people in Kirkwall trying to screw them and all the other bullshit related to Kirkwall's inefficient or malicious upper class the Arishok decided the people there would be better off under the Qun. Given how things go later in that game he was probably right.
Pity 2 was shit, there was a lot of potential for an actually morally grey conflict there and instead we got Muh Evil Rock.

They were too good for such a mediocre series

In Origins I remember Sten said that the Quanari cut out the tounges of mages and keep them caged up.

I guess Bioware forgot it's own lore

They most certainly did! From Origins to DA:2:
Mages being used by the Qunari in combat? Check
Necromancy being a form of evil blood magic? Check
Being able to teleport via magic? Check

The Arishok was definitely right, when it comes to the Kirkwall situation in DA2. It's a shithole. The government is pretty inept, there are blood mages pretty much everywhere you turn around, the Veil is torn in so many places you have demons running around in the sewers, not to mention the bandits in the streets.

Aside from the mages, who would've been up shit creek without a paddle, Kirkwall under the Qunari would have been better off.

Trevinter Imperium, the Qunari and their Forever War are the most interesting parts of the Dragon Age setting.

The rest is bullshit. Generic fantasy bullshit. But fantasy blood ritual Byzantium vs Ogre confuscious caliphite with cannons? Fuck yeah.

>not siding with the Templars
>not supporting Prince Belhen as the Dwarven King
>not refusing to let the Chantry into the Dwarven capitol
>not refusing to make golems
>not helping the Spirit of the Forest and the werewolves slaughter the wood elves
>not killing the succubus in the dream immediatley
>not making alistar king by marrying him to the princess
>not sparing Loghain
>not refusing Morrigans offer

If you failed to make any of these decisions in DAO you are objectively wrong

The fact that we never actually got to see Tervinter, or the Qunari lands, or hell, even Antiva, is a massive crime. But no, instead we had to spend the whole fucking time talking about the Maker and going to endlessly boring deserts and shit in Inquisition.

What a fucking waste.

None of those choices matter anyways.

Half of those are shit though.

>mages are more helpful than templars and the tower can objectively be saved
>bhelen is the right choice agreed
>chantry bullshit doesn't matter to wardens who cares
>golems help the dwarves push out of orzammar and kill darkspawn
>helping the elves is helping your allies and promotes long term stability in preparation for the next blight
>princess is a barren whore who isn't needed
>agreed archdemons need to die

All in all 5/10 do you even Grey Warden brah?

>None of those choices matter anyways.


I thinl DA:I made it clear tha the next place will take place in Tevinter.

I don't have a problem with that, as it actually is consistent with the dialogue between Sten and female PC in Origins. Remember, the idea of a woman being a warrior is incomprehensible to Sten since in his society those are different social roles and you can't be more than one at the same time (Sten isn't being sexist though it may initially so appear, and the PC can call him out on that; his logic isn't "women can't be warriors because they're worse than men" but that being a woman and a warrior are contradictory roles). He finally concludes that the PC, despite clearly being female, is not a woman.

So it's not to me particularly surprising that the Qunari have a term for people who are physically female but don't fit the very narrow definition they have for a woman. Basically, from the Gunari point of view if you have boobs and a vagina and are a solfier, you're actually a man because only a man can be a soldier and therefore you must be a man.

*that the next game

Being married to a princess helps further legitimize Alistars rule

Plus I don't trust mages who aren't under a watchful eye, they're walking demon magnets

But some cultures on earth do have that.

It shouldn't be "One game, one civilization", though. In Inquisition we should have been traveling the world, stamping out the evil cult with a team of actually interesting people and not, y'know, Sera. Instead we got the most boring Open World maps known to man.

Anora is the daughter of a traitor and only consort. Alistair as half brother and backed by the most powerful lords of the realm has enough legitmacy, not much true, but she doesn't add any.

You're a Warden, not a Templar. Demons, blood magic, only the Blight matters.

>not siding with the cult and dumping dragons blood in Andraste's ashes for the lulz

Step it up senpai

Well, I made three of those choices.

I didn't make Alistair king because the fucker is a Grey Warden and would be sterile as Bioware's current writing, I didn't let the templars slaughter the mages because the army was going to have plenty of swordy, brute forcey guys and I wanted literal firepower.

Plus I wanted to kill the demons myself for EXP and loot. Those templars would just return everything back to the Circle.

I accepted morrigan's offer anyway because I liked her and wanted to fuck her anyway and hope to knock her up however slim that chance would have been in-universe until she revealed she had that nice ritual.

>princess is a barren whore who isn't needed
Personally I think that way when it comes to Alistair.

Barren whore. Not needed. Kind of retarded. At least Anora has some kind of pragmatism about her.

Alistair is loyal to the Grey Wardens though. Neither is going to be good for the realm but at least he won't actively betray the order like Anora does.

Except that Alistair is fertile, he can be a pragmatist with some molding, and he, more than anyone else, would be sympathetic to the efforts of the Grey Wardens.

Side-note, but how long are Grey Wardens supposed to live before they start to hear The Calling? For some reason I thought it was 30, but we've seen plenty of older Wardens throughout the series.

that's because wardens are recruited at different ages. I think Alistair said it was about ten to fifteen years from drinking the initiation ritual shit (literal shit, I mean). Some rare cases might make it to twenty and I think The Architect removed the taint from Alistair's mother which was why she never dealt with it.


The real threat to the realm are those FUCKING ORLESIANS

But user, why go to new settings when you can go to fantasy England/France again!? ook at how "cool" Orlais is, it's a deadly court with lots of intrigue and lying, oooooh~

DA: I is such hot shit. Stop crapping out these easily ended world destroying magic events. Lets just deal with the Qunari invading or Tervinter making a magic plague or the Elves going full dindu and having an uprising against the humans. Christ, anything other then
>the big bad evil guy comes in and wrecks shit

I love big bad evil guys but we already had that in Origins and there's so much other shit to do. Plus, I hated how DA: I made Red Lyrium and demons aligned with the Corypheaus' bullshit and part of the taint. They could have kept it separate and given people more shit to deal with.

Actually, how is DA meant to be a dark fantasy again? It just seems like high fantasy.

You had to deal with more mundane shit in DA2 thou

>like Anora does
Citation needed

>Alistair is fertile
lmao sure a fertile grey warden good one

>citation needed
The game? She turns on you at the Landsmeet if you don't suck up to her enough.

The problem is that DA2 is terrible and rushed.

>lmao sure a fertile grey warden good one
The Grey Warden from DA:O can have a kid with Morrigan.

Granted, that might just be the blood magic.

Come to think of it, between the Blight, low Warden fertility, and Anora, what are their plans for an heir?

Ech to be honest I liked the overall plot. What I hated was
1. Backtracking and fighting ambush after ambush after ambush
2. NPCs in your team outside of Varrick

I like Isabella's breasts and the party banter was good.

I really like this way of looking at it.

Yeah, that's why 2 is, while shit, better as a concept and actually opens up the world a bit more. They could have done stuff with red lyrium/the harvesters becoming more common but they shat it all away instead.

2 mostly fell apart because of shitty, repetive gameplay, right?

Did you not listen to Morrigan, she expressly says she uses a ritual for it to happen. Pretty sure the ENTIRE ritual was just making it possible to have kids.

And their plan was basically nothing, that's why while I didn't like Anora and would have preferred Alistair marry her or become King himself, I accepted a Warden king would be bad for Ferelden in the long run. Also respect Alistair's wishes, whiny little retard he might have been, he was still with me throughout my entire adventure and was a handy meatshield.

This was before I played Awakening and found out that even if I hadn't made him king and let him stay a Grey Warden, even AFTER killing loghain despite I myself having forgiven the dude, I was pissed he wasn't at Amaranthine and I got Ned Flanderized Ohgren.

I don't know, I recall a lot of people hating it for a lot more than being rushed. Including being stuck in a single city throughout the entire game.

>2 mostly fell apart because of shitty, repetive gameplay, right?

I would say so. I was ok with Hawke as PC and both templar vs mages arc and qunari arc did give some insight into the world as a whole

And the story which was basically Dragon Age: Oh Fuck I Can't Even Think Of A Name Just Stick A Number On The End.

And then some rushed and in some places totally nonsensical shit happens in the last 1/3.

this is how I took it.

Also, I liked Krem since I asked them "Why not just try to get some magical gender reassignment surgery" and their response was "The fuck are you smoking? Even if there was a safe magic like that, I'd refuse. I might think of myself as a dude, but I'm fine with my body as it is."

Having met a few transgenders in real life, it was kind of nice to see one accepting their unique position than wanting to piss it away.

You mean if you're incompetent? Of course she does. She's not going to suck your dick just because you're the protagonist.

It is blood magic.

The last part may be a bit underwritten but I think most of the writing (besides party sexuality meaning they're all bisexual) is well done.

Really, if you just replacced the gameplay with the stuff from one and smoothed out a few of those foibles at the end of the last 1/3, you'd have a great game I think.

I am a total faggot for rise-to-power stories tho

She turns on you if you don't suck her father's dick. Anora is objectively the worst choice both in terms of the Blight and the future of the kingdom.

It's sad to see something neat get more and more mangled as time goes on.

>not helping the Spirit of the Forest and the werewolves slaughter the wood elves

I agree with you in pretty much everything else but why this? They eventually lose control and shit in every it was accomplished.

Except it's canon that she's a good ruler who makes things better than they were before the blight, and if you have Alistair marry her, the people fucking love it.

And DA2 and DAI are canon. Doesn't stop them nonsensical piles of shit.

I put my self in the settlers (who got cursed to be werewolves) shoes. If the elves can't share the forest, then they have to go. I played the game without meta gaming though, I didn't know the werewolves would eventually lose control, I thought the spirit of the forest would guide them.

"If you rape and kill the native population it's okay because the natives should share."

Jesus Christ I bet you're voting for Macron.

Justice is the advantage of the strong. If the Elves wanted to not get raped and killed, they should have killed the werewolves.

And if the humans didn't want to get cursed, they should have stayed out of the spooky forest. Exactly.

Amazing the Retcons SJWs will make

I enjoy angry, useless elves. Nothing quite as fun as showing the knife-eared scum they don't deserve to keep their sacred woodland

>wood elves
>deserving to live

Pick one

I still wonder how he can fuck you without hurting you. (If you are not a qunari)

I'm not sure I'd call the Qunari morally grey because they don't really apply human/elvish/dwarven morality to themselves. In fact it's quite different from the moral system the other characters have