Is he lawful good done right?

Is he lawful good done right?

Nah he's lawful stupid

>killing the mad king was wrong because you stabbed him in the back


Yes actually. He didn't understand the concept of betrayal and when it happened to him he was surprised even though he set himself up for it super hard. The fact that he was willing to blindly trust everyone and told Circei of all people to do the right thing and let Stannis take the throne highlights it. He didn't understand why she wouldnt leave or why Baelish crossed him. It just didn't occur to him it would happen.

To anyone who doesn't understand why Ned has a problem with what Jaime did, imagine a secret service agent shooting the president and sitting down in his chair in the Oval Office.
>But that president was gonna nuke Washington DC!
Yes, but Jaime didn't tell anybody about that. Just imagine what it must have looked like from Ned's point of view. Jaime was literally sitting on the Iron Throne, his sword still covered in king's blood.

To be fair, why would he expect Littlefinger to betray him? In the show he may be obviously evil, but everyone trusts him in the books. Jaime even thinks he should be made Hand of the King.

Jaime in the books doesn't really have a head for anything that isn't being a swordmaster

He's a decent example of a Lawful Good character written by someone who really doesn't like Lawful Good or settings where that's a good alignment to have.

Ned's a pretty good guy but he's like that player who rolled up a paladin and was expecting to have a fun adventure when his GM decided unexpectedly to run a much darker setting.

I'm gonna need to borrow this analogy user.

>To be fair, why would he expect Littlefinger to betray him?
Petyr told him so himself.

Catelyn told him Littlefinger wouldn't hurt them. Would you rather trust your wife or the guy who told you not to trust him?

Yeah why should he be annoyed at a man that made the kingsguard seem dishonourable.

If I'm not trusting the guy who told me not to trust him, then I do trust him to tell me how much of a bad idea it is to trust him, which would make me a hypocrite.
Does Ned strike you as a hypocrite?

To be fair it's left ambiguous so far wether LF actually coerced Joff into beheading Ned or if he decided to do so on his own. There's many signs which points towards the former with LF wanting to start a war, as well as opening up the door for him to get married to Cat, and at the same time cover up that he was a treacherous dick to Ned.

The signs against it are that Joff hasn't needed such coercion before. He told Sansa that her father was a traitor, and he decided to kill Bran all on his own (even if it was because he overheard Rob say that it would be the merciful thing to do), and he wanted to appear as tough in front of the crowd.


Then he didn't tell anyone because?
Is he retarded, what did he think would happen, while you stopped him from murdering hundreds of thousands of people?
What a dick you are

Literally honour before reason, the man

>swore to protect the king
>kills the king
Anyone with a brain won't look at that cuck with good eyes. If he can't do his job, and if his sword swings around depending on his mood, it means he is quite literally a criminal and should be hanged.

>Ned's a pretty good guy but he's like that player who rolled up a paladin and was expecting to have a fun adventure when his GM decided unexpectedly to run a much darker setting.

The question then becomes one of those annoying types. Is it better to betray an oath or, through adherence allow an atrocity?

honour cant bring back the dead user

Ask the council what to do I guess. I dunno, there must be a way to dethrone a shit king.

Civil war or House Blackfyre

It's almost like it's meant to be a difficult moral quandary without a simple answer.

Okay, but doesn't anyone find it odd how he gets all upset that Jaime betrayed his oaths, when Ned was literally fighting a treasonous war against his king at the time?

Ned didn't swear to protect the king, fuckward.

The king doesn't just get to do whatever the fuck he wants. And Aerys did exactly that - his son stole Ned's sister, and then murdered his father and brother. Aerys broke the feudal contract publicaly, and the rebels would have none of it.
Jaime was a special case, because he was sworn to protect the king (not to murder him), his father just turned traitor and sacked the city he was supposed to defend, and Jaime didn't even try to defend himself from Ned.

No not really they both have different scenarios and point of views as the other anons have stated. From his point of view Jaime killed the king because he didn't want to protect the king or die defending him choosing the easy way out.

Can we all agree that Stannis Baratheon was a Dark Lord and What Brienne Tarth did was action of a true Paladin.

boring bait

I mean the last three king guardsmen fought to the bitter end in the tower of Joy.

He's lawful good done wrong. He was the Retard of Retards.

Ned - Lawful Good
Jon - Neutral Good
Arya - Chaotic Good

Davos - Lawful Neutral
Tyrion - True Neutral
Melisandre - Chaotic Neutral

Stannis - Lawful Evil
Daenerys - Neutral Evil
Cersei - Chaotic Evil

It's really true that people trusts him in the books. They just don't fear them since he is apparently powerless compared to everyone else.

Littlefinger literally stabbed Ned in the back. He betrayed him no matter if he wanted Ned dead or just out of scene in the Wall.

Put someone else as neutral evil cersei and daenerys are the same in my book.

>Stannis - Lawful Evil
Stannis is Lawful Neutral.

Stannis Baratheon is a dour and rigid man who believes in honor and duty above all else, causing him to have few friends. After a notorious smuggler brought his castle food relief during a siege, he knighted the man for his heroism, but had his fingertips chopped off as punishment for his past crimes, since "a good deed does not wash out the bad". He has a reputation in-story for being completely dedicated to justice and duty, the latter of which is the only reason he's making his bid for the Iron Throne, as it is required of him as the rightful heir.

>and yet he resorts to witchcraft/magic/dark rituals in order to further his goals
>even killing his daughter
>really anyone that had "royal" blood
>killing people for personal gain is neutral now
fuck off back to tumblr

>literally uses dark magic
>literally kills his daughter

His motivation was lawful, in the strictest, biblical sense, but his tactics were evil.


So is ASoIaF actually worth getting into or just a meme?

I'm O.K with littlefinger.

The first 4 seasons are kino, the next two are okay. Anyone who says otherwise is retarded.

Also, reading the books is for LITERAL virgins.

Littlefinger will be king of the ashes, screencap this post

Hey look its /tv/
But yeah hes pretty much right first four series are alright which are books 1-3 which are alright. 4-5 are pretty slow paced and who the fuck knows how 6 will be or if seven will even be released.

I was referring to the books but alright, sometimes it's hard to see whether Veeky Forums dislikes something because it actually is shit or because it is something that normies happen to like so if you aren't being contrarian about it you have shit tastes.

Books are what I put in my post 1-3 books are good while 4-5 is just him slowly building up plot. The wait is such a bitch for his next books.

The books are pretty good. 1-3 are pretty great, and I thought 4 was pretty good. 5 sucked though.

I don't think that the books are bad because normies like them, I don't even think normies like them. I think they're bad because the show is a better adaptation of the story than the books are.

>honour cant bring back the dead user
Only if you're doing it wrong.

This is just asking for me to shitpost the bad pussy meme.

At times yes the show does it better at other times, holy fuck what were they thinking.

But not inaccurate.

Subplots need to be their own separate books

>killing the mad king was wrong because you stabbed him in the back
because you swore to protect him*

I burnt out on the series by the third book. That said the if you like the idea of a really cynical take on high fantasy which is focused on the lives of powerful people it's absolutely worth giving it a shot.
Martin has a lot of weaknesses as a writer but I think he's really good at evoking the feel of political intrigue (even when the intrigue doesn't really make much sense under a microscope).

As far as D&D alignment goes, performing evil acts for good ends is neutral, so fuck off.

>literally kills his daughter
Only in show, so not canon yet. Book Stannis can't kill her even if he wanted as he is miles away from her. And aside from that he give disposition to his men, that in event of his death they should make her queen of 7 kingdoms. He does not sound as someone willing to kill his daughter. More likely his crazy wife will do it without his knowledge.
>literally uses dark magic
So what?
Magic is not necessarily evil in setting.
There are many practitioners from maesters to shadowbinders, faceless and red priests.
And what is worse:
Sending thousands of men into battle or killing one guy with shadow magic?

killing one guy with shadow magic.

>he thinks the fucking show is canon

It's like talking about the elven bitch from the The Hobbit film. Grow up you cuckmaster.

Absolute trash don't bother. I feel like I wasted my time after finished it. The show I didn't even bother to finish it, just literally skipped 3 seasons until the last one because its so fucking bad its unwatchable.

At the end of the day, it's all about ice and fire, which is predictable, boring, and completely diminishes the reader's excitement.

>At the end of the day, it's all about ice and fire
is this a metaphor or something or are you talking about the whole story being about literal cold ice and hot fire?

The whole shitshow is about dragons facing the ice zombies. Snow mixing with white haired purple eyed diarreah inducing bitch.

Boooring. I thought Martin was going somewhere else when I started the series but now I realize it's going for a classical greek ending. I feel like I wasted my money on the books, and my time on the show(even if I skipped over half of it, if it wasn't for /tv/ I couldn't have endure it). Fuck this.

The ultimate fate of Westeros and probably the world will be determined by the war between the white walkers and the humans who have dragons. If you don't know what the white walkers are, they're murderous humanoids who wake up shortly before winter starts and try to eradicate all life with cold and brute force. Anyone they kill rises as a zombie, the zombies and walkers can only be killed by fire or something that effectively contains fire's essence.

This, it's literally ice zombies vs fire breathing dragons. At least that's what it's leading to.

This. So everything that happens doesn't really matter because the outcome is really determined.

Showfaggot detected. There is no such thing as "white walkers" or "walkers", they are called Others.

It's pretty obvious thats what its leading to, although it is getting worse the more it drags on.

>bad pussy meme

And I could just as easily quote the Daenerys shitting scene from the books.

The highs of GOT beat the highs of ASOIAF any day

>tfw we didn't get the giant chain in blackwater

Ned's beef with Jaime was that he only chose a side at the last possible second. He had no idea about the wildfire stores and Jaime sensibly never told anyone, so from Ned's point of view Jaime just acted like an honorless dog who swears his loyalty until it no longer benefits him.

no way

>no zombie bears
>no ice spiders
>no chain of Constantinople in blackwater battle
GOT is absolute trash.

Ned was a decent LG character but the author loves to subvert tropes for no other reason than to subvert him. This is why Ned does after being set up as a protagonist, this is why Robb dies after being set up as a protagonist, this is why everyone betrays John and why the last time we see Daernarys she's shitting uncontrollable with everything she's accomplished undone.

>this is why Robb dies after being set up as a protagonist,
How the fuck was Robb set up as a protagonist? He's literally the only one of the Stark Brood to have 0 PoV chapter narration; everything that happens around him is told from Catelyn's point of view. If you didn't realize he never stood a chance, you weren't reading very carefully.

>why the last time we see Daernarys she's shitting uncontrollable with everything she's accomplished undone.
No way bro, that was one of the best scenes of the entire saga.

>when you spend 5 books building an army, and in the last chapter you lose it all
Top kek

It's not really worth getting into with the book series remaining unfinished. They're good books, but fuck the waiting for George R. R. Martin to either finish them or die. Books 4/5 are the roughest of the series since it's all build up for the climax, but the last book came out 6 years ago and no one knows when the final 2 will come out. Anyone thinking that there might end up being a lot of plot holes or just unsatisfactory parts since the author started the series in 1996 and it's still unfinished?

I think he's purposefully doing it to fuck with people.

Thing about it, several super long running "series" went unfinished by its author.

Wheel of Time
Tolkein had unpublished works

Books are great.

Show varies from good to great for the first 4 seasons, then it really starts to collapse but has a few good moments in 5 and 6. The deviation from the books eventually becomes unforgivable, the biggest change being that the apex villain of the books is a Nietzschean ubermensch with vast knowledge of the world and of dark magic, the show seems to be gearing him up to be a side villain who is simply a dull belligerent warmonger.

I agree, basically Martin has no option but to stall.
Think about it, he's hit the Half Life 3 threshold, nothing he can possibly produce could be as good as the hype has made it out to be by this point. The reality simply cannot live up to it, so he has two options
>Release it, have it not be perfect and go down as a fucking hack, then spend the rest of his days hiding from Nerd hitmen who are enraged that he didn't close that plot hole/have their character win/do another shitting scene/ect ect
>Stall until he dies of natural causes and be known as the writers of The Greatest Tragically Unfinished Fantasy Series EVRAR, then spend the rest of the century getting sucked off postmortem.
Which'd you pick?

Robb was set up as a protagonist by being the son of tbe martyred good guy who fell in love with a woman of unsuitable station for him and married her over practical considerations of state.
Ned chose honor over pragmatism, a heroic trait. Ned died
Robb chose feelings over pragmatism, a heroic trait, Robb dies.
Daernarys chose charity over pragmatism, a heroic trait, insert diahorea quote
Pragmatists last longer. Idealism of any kind eventually gets them killed.

If you want to go into show territory, Stannis' idealism about the law and duty gets him killed.

John's idealism about the wildlings gets him murdered (but he gets better because it was also a pragmatic consideration)

The series will end with Sansa and Littlefinger married as king and queen. And then Sansa will poison little finger starting it all again.

The show will be the canon ending anyway, he doesn't need to finish the books anymore. He backed himself into a corner.

>Robb was set up as a protagonist by being the son of the martyred good guy
That was John S(mith).

>Ned chose honor over pragmatism, a heroic trait. Ned died
So did John S(mith).

>Robb chose feelings over pragmatism
And so he died.

>Stannis' idealism about the law and duty gets him killed.
While in the book, his lawfulness is what keep him and his army alive.

>The series will end with Sansa and Littlefinger

Worthless characters with no value to the overall actual plot.

>Robb was set up as a protagonist by being the son of tbe martyred good guy who fell in love with a woman of unsuitable station for him and married her over practical considerations of state.
None of that sets him up as a protagonist. You might want to look up what a "protagonist" is. Alternatively, you might want to just stick your head even further up your ass, since it's quite clear that you can't read even the basic kind of literature that is ASOIF. Robb was never a protagonist, BECAUSE ROBB GOT NO FOCUS YOU STUPID SHITHEAD.

Robb had no chapters you idiot. He couldn't possibly be a protagonist when he isn't part of the story focus. All we learned about Robb was from Catelyn chapters and from the Lannisters chapters. Otherwise Robb would be a literally who to everyone, it's like claiming Rickon is a protagonist. He doesn't have his own chapters.

That's what I said.

>Which'd you pick?
Just to witness impotent autistic rage among disappointed ultra fans

Honestly? Release, I want to see it end as the author envisioned it. But, you are most likely right about how things will pan out.

Who /aegon/ here

>raises paw

As a Baelish, trust the man who says he's a scoundrel to be a scoundrel. He counts on you disbelieving him, but hopes for otherwise.

This is a good image

He only has himself to blame for his current predicament.

Empirically wrong.


Patchface, the Cthulhu preacher. He is the final boss.

Not him by the way, but everyone that has read the books knows about it.

I'd love that end.

On top of his wife saying he was trustworthy, I think Ned probably saw that as a kind of exaggeration.

I can't describe it any better, but I just get the feeling that Ned didn't really see the weight of what Baelish was actually saying and only saw it as a casual day-to-day warning.

Haven't read the books due to shenanigans. Thanks.

Euron Greyjoy

by the beginning of book 7, Euron:
>possesses the only suit of valyrian steel armor in the world
>possesses a horn the valyrians used to enslave dragons, sent with victarion to meereen to steal one
>only living man known to have traveled deep into valyria
>is a warg and possibly a greenseer
>has consumed enough shade of the evening to be nearly clairvoyant
>has a faceless man working for him
>has the entire Greyjoy fleet and the Redwyne fleet approaching the same location for his blood sacrifice
>sacrificing a large number of brainwashed priests and warlocks from around the world who have been forcefed shade of the evening to see his true form
>foreseen as an eldritch abomination or godslayer in visions from multiple characters (aeron, patchface, melisandre, daenarys, etc)
>likely going to sack Oldtown, where Sam happens to be carrying the horn of joramun which might be capable of destroying the wall
>also where the hightowers have been locked away in their tower casting spells for years
>also the world's greatest storage of information, although Asshai likely has more magical information

TV Euron just makes dick jokes

book 6 I mean

Euron Greyjoy.

Show!Euron was a major disappointment. I couldn't believe it, when they fucked up Kingsmoot, one of the best chapters in the series.


>mfw those are actual lines from the show

The books are good if you get really invested in the world or like long, slow, albeit well-written stretches of pointless exposition and descriptions of useless shit. GRRM is much better at creating a world than he is at actually writing a decent story. Interestingly, I'd say his short stories set in the world are by far much better.