Warren's Folly

Bump, I'll be here in a sec.

Things we still need:
>A level up system
Total levels? Knacks per levels?
>More Knacks
We can probably fit a bunch of "X stat increases by Y", but more specifics would be fun.
>Maneuvers
Make combat fun, and give low duress fighters something to do
>Class abilities
Seriously, we need to flesh out our classes. Come up with neat stuff, or just outline progressions or duress points
>Combat rules
Our rough idea so far is CoC d100 skills based, with Parry and Dodge cemented.
>R&R
How do players heal up or reduce duress naturally? Short/Long rests?

Any other mechanics that need sorting out?

Maneuvers, because of the emphasis of 8's in the universe the combat maneuvers could feature superiority d8's similar to BattleMaster in 5e. DC is 40 + Might + Will.

>Shield bash (if they have a shield)
Make an attack with your shield against a target, if it hits add 1d8 to damage and the target must make a will (or might) saving throw or have disadvantage on all attacks for 1 round.

Advanced Parry
If you make a parry and it fails you can expend a superiority die and reroll +1d8, taking the new roll.

These are just for now, I'll have some more in a few hours. Here is the discord for those that missed out before.
discord.gg/pfGnhrk

I'm not a fan of "lets make everything 8's because whatever". It's meant to be a subtle underlying motif, not a rule of the game. That's not to say maneuvers might not have a roll, but work it into the balance, not the 8 theme.
I also don't like superiority die, because it limits maneuvers as a resource, instead of being a constant combat option.
I think knacks which improve or specialize maneuvers aren't a bad idea, but maneuvers themselves shouldn't be limited.
This can be balanced be reducing the accuracy and/or the damage of an attack. Also don't allow maneuvers to self-stack if we want to prevent stun-locking, although it may be an appropriate strategy.

going with the idea of non-resource maneuvers lets say that a knack could give people a bonus to their parry and allow them to riposte instead of parry. Riposte will allow you to perform an attack on the attacker if they fail on their attack role, this won't subtract from your actions during your turn, but you can't parry and riposte at the same time. Another idea for a knack (it could even be a bonus to the above one) is allowing more that 1 parry/riposte/dodge in a turn.

>Bladework
gives a bonus to parry attempts (+5 or +10 not sure) and allows the user to riposte instead of parry. A riposte uses your old parry score and works the same but if it is a success you can make an attack against the opponent. This does not subtract from your attacks made during your turn.

>Superior Bladework (prerequisite: Bladework)
Allows 2 uses of parry/riposte per reaction and allows you to use your Bladework bonus with riposte.

>Heavy weapon work (needs better name)
When attacking with a weapon with the 'Heavy' property your attacks push opponents back 5ft, and deal an extra 1d2 or 1d4 damage? (or just deal extra damage based on Might)

Still drafting down some more but need more suggestions for non-resource maneuvers.

>Precision strike
Add 20% to a weapons attack chance (if they're proficient) but reduce damage by a set amount

I think something like

"add your finesse to your attack chance, but reduce damage by a set amount" (maybe half, dunno)

would work better. Just because I don't feel like a characters attributes are represented well enough in gameplay yet.

Working on a Knack tree.
Keep posting, I'll upload when I've got something decent.

bumping

We haven't determined weapon types like heavy, light, and normal. Heavy weapons slow down the user in combat and are easier to avoid, however, they also deal more damage and scale better with Might than normal or light weapons, but cannot be wielded with another weapon. Light weapons scale off Finesse for both damage and hit chance, however, they deal less damage than heavy or normal weapons and can be wielded in your off hand. Normal weapons use a combination of Might and Finesse for hit chance and scale off Might for damage, additionally they can be wielded in your main hand with a light weapon or shield in your off hand. Fighting with two weapons decreases the effectiveness of both. Note that is is meant to be the most basic rules of meele weapons, differing to more specific rules based on knacks or the particular weapon in question, and is only a suggestion.

Ideas for Wandering Warrior

At first level they pick a fighting style and know both the Calculated Strike ability and the Ectatic Assualt ability.
>Ranged weapons:
+10% to hit with ranged weapons
>Defence:
increase the damage reduction received from armors/shields
>Duelist:
when wielding a melee weapon in 1hand get +10% bonus to hit for that weapon, also receive the Bladework knack.
>Great weapon fighter:
when you roll under 10 on a weapon strike with a two handed weapon you can reroll the die and use the new roll.
>Two-weapon Fighting:
Can attack with two weapons without the effectiveness being decreased.

Also at first level they can pick an enchantment for their armor.
>Spiked:
the spikes on their armor seek out opponents during a grapple dealing 1d2 (or 1d4) every time the opponent attempts to escape from a grapple. Also allows them to use their offhand or main hand as 1d4+might damage.
>Iron Wall:
the wearer can cause their armor to swell as a bonus action at the end of their turn restricting their movement and halving their hit chance, but doubling their damage reduction. The passive for this is increased damage reduction.

>I'm out of ideas for armor enchantments. and interesting idea is that they can "burn" and consume the essence of their enchantments to give large temporary bonuses akin to a miniature desperation but these enchantments won't be useable for a long time after, or even permanently.

the warriors shouldn't just be limited to plate armor either, the class should be able to use all armors and shields to give them versatility, if you wanted a Finesse-based wandering warrior with a rapier then the enchantments will be on your leather armor because that kind of warrior wouldn't be wearing full plate.

The fighting style is so that they aren't just a faithful with more damage, but they can actually specialize in any form of non-magical combat and still be effective. Feedback is appreciated.

Level 2 upcoming. in 10hours when I wakeup

Light weapons
>Finesse for Attack and Damage
>Can dual wield, use shields
>Later perks upgrade crit range, accuracy

Medium
>Finesse for Attack, Might for Damage
>Can use shields, use 1 or 2 hands
>Most maneuvers, versatile

Heavy
>Use 1/2 Might (or finesse) for Attack, Might for Damage (2x Might?) extra damage dice
>Requires two hands
>Raw damage focus

RANGED
>Throwing weapons are just light weapons with Knacks

Bows
>Finesse (martial) for attack and damage

Pistols (+Hand X-bows)
>Easy to use (simple), high weapon dice/base accuracy
>no stat modifier to damage, 1/2 finesse to attack
>1 handed, free hand for reloading:
action (front load, Xbow, magazine) or bonus action (revolver, repeating Xbow) changes with tech advancement.
>Guns are LOUD

Rifles
>Similar to Pistols, but needs 2 hands, slightly higher damage
>Can be carbines->muskets->Xbows

On another note we should think of limitations to gunpowder weapons for relative depth in the maze or proximity to certain areas or creatures like the hunger. Not to shit on any gun-fighters but to balance the damage and advantages a gun will have over bows and crossbows.

I am totally cool with this. Fixed damage for pistols and rifles is great. I am not very sure about the Heavy Weapons use of damage and attack. Maybe use Might for both attack and Damage with a little less probability of succed in attack (like a modifier) and having more possibility to do a critic damage. Also Heavy weapons may need certain might to use. Also maybe pistols and rifles need certain Lore to use.

This seems like what I had in mind, except that heavy weapons can't use Finesse for Attack (without a possible knack), and all specific weapons should have a knack associated with them, not just ranged ones.

I agree, knacks for everyone! Still, different weapon categories should have different 'focuses'.
Because Might does Health, Armor (weight), and Damage, I didn't want to make Heavy weapons only Might dependant, allowing Finesse to become a dump stat for Might characters.

Weapon attacks work off of our d100 system, so we need to figure out rates for attacks. Heavy weapons should have low base rates, but their modifiers should include finesse.

How do shields work? Add a 20% bonus to parry while wielding? With it's own knacks and maneuvers, I imagine.

Finesse can make you faster also. And add to dodge/defense

Suggested formula for Maneuvers:

NAME
Reqs; Make an attack with Y penaly to the roll.
>If successful, apply Z condition
>Reduce damge inflicted by Q

Ideas:
>Trip attack
>Charge attack
>Feint attack (reduce dodge/parry chance)
>Disarm (possibly literally)
>Knockdown
>Shield Bash
>Precise strike (less damage, more accurate)
>Viscious strike (less accurate, more damage)
>Sweeping attack/flurry (multi-hit)
>Piercing (DR reduction)
>Distracting strike (reduce targets next attack)

Also, some rules for grappling seem needed.

Looks good
Heavy weapons can only use charge attack, knockdown, sweeping attack, and piercing.
Light weapons can only have Trip attack, Feint, Disarm, Precise strike, Flurry, Piercing?, and Distracting strike. Medium weapons can have any of those.

I like the break down.
Take piercing from heavy and swap in Viscious.
Piercing is a good fit for light, because it might be needed to break through more armored enemies.
Also, a "Shield Specialist" Perk might allow for certain maneuvers like knockback with a shield as well.

What about fists?
I propose high accuracy with finesse, might damage with no damage roll, considered "light" and with knacks to upgrade effectiveness.

>Brawler
Accuracy keys off of might

>Pin-point strike
Damage keys off of finesse

>Martial Artist
Allows bonus accuracy and damage to maneuvers

>Haymakers
Allows heavy weapon maneuvers with extra damage, much less accurate

>5 D's of fist-fighting
Grants bonus to parry and dodge while unarmed

>Iron fist
Straight up damage boost.

>Fisting Champ
More accurate strikes

>Macho man
Bonus to grapples while unarmed, opportunity to do bonus attacks to a grappled target.

Just concepts. Someone please come up with better names.

Good point, I had forgotten. Maybe heavy weapons can stick with just Might, then.

Should we have a simple/martial split? Is it necesary? I think different classes will have built in Combat bonuses eliminating the need for it.

Trying to brainstorm rough numbers for weapon types. Attack rolls are fine with adding relevant scores, but damage boosts should be some sort of modifier.

Light
>45% + finesse
>1d4-1d6 + Finesse mod

Medium
>35% + finesse
>1d6-1d8 + might mod

Heavy
>20% + might
>1d10-1d12 + might

Bows
>35% + Finesse
>1d4-1d8 + finesse

Fists
>60% + finesse
>(1+?) might mod

Thrown (without thrown attribute)
>Range = weapon base hit %
>Accuracy = (Weapon base % + modifier) - 15%
>Otherwise the same damage wise? Small penalty?

Guns/Xbows
>65% hit chance, no mod
>2d6-2d10 damage, no mod.
>accuracy can be upgraded with perks, damage cannot.

We could also think up some "called shot" maneuvers for ranged or thrown weapons.
Again, rough numbers here. Feel free to change things.

Good point, I had forgotten. Maybe heavy weapons can stick with just Might, then.

Should we have a simple/martial split? Is it necesary? I think different classes will have built in Combat bonuses eliminating the need for it.

Trying to brainstorm rough numbers for weapon types. Attack rolls are fine with adding relevant scores, but damage boosts should be some sort of modifier.

Light
>45% + finesse
>1d4-1d6 + Finesse mod

Medium
>35% + finesse
>1d6-1d8 + might mod

Heavy
>20% + might
>1d10-1d12 + might

Bows
>35% + Finesse
>1d4-1d8 + finesse

Fists
>60% + finesse
>(1+?) might mod

Thrown (without thrown attribute)
>Range = weapon base hit %
>Accuracy = (Weapon base % + modifier) - 15%
>Otherwise the same damage wise? Small penalty?

Guns/Xbows
>65% hit chance, no mod
>2d6-2d10 damage, no mod.
>accuracy can be upgraded with perks, damage cannot.

We could also think up some "called shot" maneuvers for ranged or thrown weapons.
Again, rough numbers here. Feel free to change things.

Basic way would be to increase base gun accuracy with the "complexity" of the gun, then subtract from the accuracy with duress. Failing a hit by ~ 30 jams the weapon, with ~50 breaking it (possibly exploding).

Make Crossbows a separate category. They function similarly to guns, but with a lower base damage, and no chance to break. They also work with most/all "gun" related perks. Give Gun-Builds something to work with even at higher duress.

Alternatively, just put Crossbows under the "gun" category, and just specify the differences. Probably simpler that way.

Argh, I know I had messed up somehow, vicious definitely should have been in heavy, piercing might be a bit too powerful with multiple hitting light weapons which is why I had a question mark by it.
Other than that fists should be a last choice weapon with very few if any knacks. It would be stupid to think that punching horrors would be a viable strategy.
Reduce fist hit chance. Have a small damage penalty for grown weapons that shouldn't be thrown, additionally, heavy weapons cannot be thrown. Guns seem a bit overpowered but concept seems good enough for now.

What enemies will we encounter here? What are going to be the most common ones? I mean like the goblins/kobolds/zombies/wolfs/orcs/guards of this setting. We need at least 3 different kind of "common" enemies like this to make each campaing different from the others with varieties.

That's probably the power gamer in me trying to make everything equally viable.
Admittedly, some things should be less effective than others.
Your tweaks sounds good to me, we'll consider them in place until further balancing.

I see what you're going for, but I don't quite understand what you mean about light weapons, as they won't inheritly multi-hit.
I think light weapons need a way to deal with armor beyond out damaging DR, unless we want to include that limitation purposefully. How common is armor? If only a few enemies have it, or it's low enough, then we can probably just be rid of piercing strike altogether.

Maneuvers should (probably) be limited to once per turn, so it shouldn't interact with dual wielding. Hell, maybe just make dual-wielding a maneuver: make two attacks at - 10%, lose modifiers to damage.

And yeah, guns are supposed to be very powerful early game, but it will probably need adjusting.

To be honest, I'm not even sure how combat focused the game is supposed to be. It seems so far that the goal is more to 'fend off' or survive encounters during your exploration, rather than seek out fights. I suppose the main enemies would be:
>Other humans, either mad, criminals (worse than you) or hostile factions.
>Low grade horrors, like Crows

If it is more about survival then we shouldnt put so much investment in doing the weapons. Also we should make more rules about hiding, chase sequencies, food, sleep, stamina and shit.
Personally I think we should make the world open enought to make both things: having the possibility in focus on fights (diffciult ones, so avoiding fights will be still much of the game) or completly horror (with enemies that are very fucking difficult to kill or even totally impossible).

Making attacking with two different weapons should probably be a maneuver now that I think about it, thus making it a non-issue.
Agreed, I just thought that they looked a bit too powerful.
I think that combat should be important to the setting but also very dangerous because loosing party members is/should be really bad in the setting.

You might be right, but I'd rather work out a good system and trim it then have a shoddy one.

That said, let me throw in one last note:
Weapon specialty knacks/fighting.

Bash Master
>+5% accuracy with weapons that deal bashing damage
>Reduce an armored opponents DR by 2 when attacking
>+5% for knockback maneuver.

Blade Master
>+5% accuracy with weapons that deal cutting damage.
>Unarmored targets take 2 extra damage
>+5% to feint attacks.

Dual strike maneuver (no knack required)
>Requires wielding two weapons: 2 light, or light and medium
>You may make two attacks at a 15 percent penalty with this maneuver, one with each weapon.
>You may instead do a power strike against one target with both weapons, using the lower hit rate -5, and adding both damage die together.

Dual Wielding Master
>when dual wielding:
>+5% to attacks when using the dual wield maneuver
>+10% to Parry attempts
>Can Dual wield with 2 medium weapons

Shield Master
>???

Marksman
>+ accuracy, + range
>limited maneuver use?

Knacks specifically for light, medium, and heavy weapons, perhaps focusing on crits, maneuvers and damage respectively, with a small damage and accuracy boost to each.

Thoughts?

Bash, blade, and dual wielding Master look good.
Shield master could be
>+10% dodge chance when wielding a shield
> +?% chance to stun opponents when attacking with a shield
>Shield bashing no longer removes the dodge chance your shield gives you.

bump

Remove "Shield Bash" from the maneuver list.

Shield Master
>Grants +10% to dodge and parry while wielding
>Projectiles can be parried
>Can attack with shield: 40% + finesse hit rate, 1d4 + might bash damage,
>Can perform the following maneuvers with shields, gaining +5%: Knockdown, Distracting Strike, Charge Attack,

Marksman
>+10% accuracy of ranged weapons
>Effective range is extended to 150% of original range
>Can perform the following maneuvers with projectiles: Trip attack, Disarm, Distracting Strike

Tactician
>Maneuvers gain +5% accuracy
>Duress requirements for maneuvers are extended by 10
>Successful maneuvers deal an extra 2 Damage

Striker – Light weapons
>+5% to attacks
>Crit range is extended by an additional 5
>Critical Hits ignore target’s DR

Duelist – Medium weapons
>+5% to attacks
>+5% to all maneuvers
>+5% Parry chance when not using a shield
>+1 damage if two-handing a medium weapon (requires free offhand)

Destroyer – Heavy weapons
>+5% to attacks
>Weapon dice damage is maximized on a crit
>Rolling a 1 or 2 weapon dice can be re-rolled once.

Also, axes deal bash damage, because fuck you.
Guns will either be light (pistol/hand X-bow) or Heavy (Rifles).

I think these knacks pretty much cover any fighting style that we have discussed so far (aka not fists, grapples, or improv weapons). Within 3 feats or so, anyone should be able to maximize their own personal build.

This is a very good start, (and I admit to taking inspiration from it) but it worries me that It looks very much like a direct port of 5e. May I suggest that instead of a fighting style, Warriors gain an additional Combat Feat at level 1?

The game doesn't seem to be combat focused so far.
The way I'm planning to run this for my group, most combat encounters will either be because they forced it (a mad cartographer has a trinket they need to retrieve) or an ambush (dived upon by carrion crows)

I think the greater horrors like Grave Titans and Dream Crawlers should be heard of but very rarely seen and almost never engaged. The players should start to doubt if they even exist in the game world before their characters see one with their own eyes.

Thinking a few sessions in, I might have them run into The Hunger, only after they've grown to respect the forces of the maze. Might be nice as an "oh shit, boog it" moment.

How do you plan to give the players the idea that The Hunger is an undefeatable force of nature?

Have you read about the rumor system suggested earlier? That could do with some attention.
It's basically "roll for random snippet of lore", which you can occasionally insert plot hooks into. Helps to build awareness of the larger world, and give certina horrors myth-status.
Happens in towns or with npc's, either by asking around or overhearing it, can come from dreams or whispers in the maze, or even memories (real or false).

I haven't, which thread is it in?
Have them meet retired cartographers that spout crazy talk about it. As well as throw a bunch of dead skelingtons around just before they come face to face with it

I wish I could say for sure, but I don't know.
It received a good amount of support as a concept, but we never got around to actually fleshing it out.

I like this list, it's concise.

For how Might and Finesse scale into damage, keep in mind that AFAIK we already established that rolling under the target number to hit by 20 or lower gave you a critical strike, which added half your might to your damage.

I feel like attribute scaling on weapon damage should be subtle.
Would it be lazy to do a DnD styled modifier?
With 13 and 14 being the most common out of a 3d8 roll for stats, can we do:
9&10: -2
11&12: -1
13&14: no mod
15&16: +1
17&18: +2

Gives variation while being easy to calculate, without letting a lucky roll at char gen dominate the play table.

bumping with warren-ish pics
this could be a Finesse-based aberration that the Haunted could transform into.

First of all, thank you.

I didn't know how the crits worked when I wrote this up (and the combat knacks) so it may need some tweaking. Should increased damage be based off of damage modifier instead? Do firearms crit?

Low scale modifier seems fine.

Cool, but transformation is more the Mazeborn's schtick. The details can be found here. , I would actually appreciate someone taking a look over them.

welcome, user.

Fair enough, I'm not sure if the crits actually got cemented or not but there was discussion around it and that was the result.

Not sure what you mean by "Should increased damage be based off of damage modifier instead?"

I'm unsure about firearms critting. They definitely shouldnt get crit damage from Might, that much is certain. Maybe from finesse or not at all?

This looks surprisingly good I support it

Yeah when I wrote about the abberation transformation it was for the class that could do it, at the time I forgot what class it was called.

Apologies, I was too tired to think or type clearly.

What I meant to say was "If crits work in that way (adding 1/2 might), Shouldn't crit damage be based off of the same stat which determines damage? Light weapon crits add damage based off of finesse instead of might and such."

If we stick with this method, I might change one of the Heavy master knack's to "Add full might on a crit, not just half" and remove maximizing dice (done under the assumption of double-dice crits).

Also, I don't think firearms should have the option to crit. The theme behind them is "easy to use, fairly high but flat damage." Bows and Slings should however.

Should the damage modifier for slings key off of might, or finesse?

I would say Finesse.

Fine by me.
I'm going to write Bows and Slings in a way that allows them to work with the Blade and Blunt knacks, respectively, to separate them from the other ranged weapons.

This means that Crossbows and Guns will be without specific knacks, but that plays into the idea of "easy but flat". If needed, though, we could come up with one other knack specifically for Firearms, including X-bows and Guns.

Other than Shields, no knacks provide bonuses to dodge chance.
Besides parry, there are actually very few defensive options here. Is that intentional? Should there be more defensive options?

Pircing is removed, replaced with light knack DR pierce on crit. Also, tag in a "quickdraw" function for sidearms.

Non-throwing weapons take a 20% accuracy drop (giving heavy weapons a base chance of 0), and lose their damage dice.
Fists are 50%

Give marksman a penalty to ranged maneuvers to offset the higher accuracy boost

Maneuvers should either not work on horrors, or require a check to identify HOW you manage to affect it, probably using Lore.
Or, stick a sidebar into stat-blocks focusing on resistances and immunities to conditions, and include the effects of certain maneuvers.

Keep in mind that maneuvers should be limited by duress.

Guns still need a system for malfunctioning.

The accuracy:damage ratio probably needs to be reworked a bit. The damage-dice difference between weapon sizes probably isn't enough to justify the hits to accuracy with heavier weapons.
Accuracy differences should be reduced.

Leave defensive options for class abilities. Take off the dodge chance from shields, it really doesn't make sense.

Numbers for dual weilding need to be checked. The concept is good, but if it isn't balanced it will ruin the combat system.

Somebody is going to be stupid enough to try and dual wield pistols. Balance accordingly.

Make sure that natural weapons are double checked against our stats and knacks for weapons.
>Limb attack=Heavy, Bash
>Spikes=Medium, Cut/Bash
>Claws/Teeth=Light, Cut
And keep an eye on the actual numbers, which might change with class levels.

Bumping for fun and profit

I'd like to see this kind of thing worked on. I think we're good on combat for now. We can take another look once it's compiled and polished.

>rules about hiding, chase sequencies, food, sleep, stamina and
What do we got?

Currently we have next to nothing on any of those. My thoughts: hiding is generally not a great idea as horrors will smell your fear and find you, also if you don't pay attention to where you are hiding you can easily put yourself in greater danger. Finesse is used in chase sequences and high Finesse Cartographers can help low Finesse ones. Food similar to Darkest Dungeon? Sleep while sleeping in the Maze often results in nightmares the alternative is far worse. Stamina: a fatigue system of some sort.

Food should be required daily to sustain yourself, perhaps a Knack that allows you to fast would be interesting?

Unless your fasting, you take a -1 mod to your maximum health for every day you've gone without food and water?
Even with fasting though, you should require clean water.

Obviously this will take a very long time to do any serious harm by itself to players but will still be 'felt'

Maybe food and drink can be found and scavenged from the maze itself at the risk of making the consumer sick?

Mind explaining the food mechanic from Darkest Dungeon?

...

sick cunt

During rests it is required in at least a small portion to not take penalties. Chowing down can let you recover a little bit of health.

Bump

DEEP IN THE MAZE.

WHAT DO PEOPLE DO FOR FUN?

WHAT RECREATIONAL SUBSTANCES ARE THERE?

WHATS THE MOST COMMON DRINK? DISTILLED OR FERMENTED?

WHAT ARE THE FESTIVALS CELEBRATED OVER THE YEARS?

HOW DO THESE PEOPLE MARK TIME WHEN THERE IS NO SUN OR MOON OR STARS?

HAVE THEY GOT ANY TABOOS?

Nice questions user.
>What do people do for fun?
Depends on how deep into the caves they are, around the surface there would be soccer or baseball in an open cavern with carved out bleachers for other settlement-folk. Deeper into the caves they might get a ride out of messing with the less dangerous horrors, they might try to tame other horrors for racing or fighting.

>Recreational substances?
Mushrooms that seem unassuming but any smart cartographer will tell you not to eat the wildlife. Some kind of low-hanging burr bush that leaves its burrs on cartographers that push past it, these burrs attract something?
I would think that there are people-sized venus fly traps that let out an addictive smell attracting cartographers.

>Common drink coming soon

I'll leave drinks for now.
>Festivals
[insert_name_here] is a holiday celebrated by most folk at Warrens Gate, it is defined by a sanctified breaking of oaths or faith so long as no death or destruction comes from it. Its during this time that you can see usually quiet mages joining in loud conversation and rowdy song, or gluttons wheeling around food carts, giving to the homeless and needy. (need more ideas)

>Marking time
Mages could have made a complex light spell that changes color and volume according to time of day, or a shard of maze metal can be suspended in the air and will track the sun/moon through the sky. Apart from that I'm not sure how they could do it.

>TABOOO?
Siding with intelligent horrors seems pretty taboo.

bump

I think it would be fun if there is a piece of standard equipment for cartographers, such as a compass or pocket watch. Of course it becomes completely unreliable deeper into Warren's Folly, but it serves as an rough indicator of just HOW warped reality is around them.

Hey, who has the watch? what time is it?
>Let me see.... it is noon. Three months ago. And spinning like a propeller.
...We should go.

Alternatively

Somebody check the compass, which way is north?
>According to this... everywhere.

Maybe even something like totems from Inception, which can behave different ways under duress.Not because of any inherit property, just because of how the maze works against things.

Liking this idea, it helps to maintain the idea of insanity from a surface dwellers point of view instead of the party encountering a mad cartographer every 30ft to remind them that this place is crazy.

TO ME THIS SETTING FEELS LIKE IT NEEDS SOME HURDY GURDY
>wandering in the dark
>the drone strings start their eerie thrum, reverberating far in the darkness...
>then the play begins echoing along all the hard rocky surfaces of the caves.
>notes dancing betwix the rocks like the players own fingers along the keys
youtube.com/watch?v=naQopGoPnig

youtube.com/watch?v=rGfnlO_z97E

youtube.com/watch?v=2Q4mKo9gBF4

>they might try to tame other horrors for racing or fighting.
>LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WELCOME TO THE 45TH ANNUAL CAVE-MONSTER RACES.
>YOU KNOW THE RULES, FIRST ONE TO RUN ALL THE WAY AROUND TITANS BEND OUTPOST WINS.
>NO INTENTIONALLY LETHAL ATTACKS AGAINST YOUR FELLOW RACERS
>NO WEAPONS
>HAVE FUN!

or you could do a sort of cave-horror Rodeo
or maybe an amateur Colosseum match versus pre-caught horrors or person on person.

an oathbreaking festival?
so men cheat on their wives
those that don't drink buy liquor by the bottle
gluttons share
I actually like this idea...

>merely mundane indicators of maze depth/maze-fuckery
this pleases me

Carryable things that might go wrong in neat ways:
Anything clockwork
>Music box
>Wind up toy (solider)
>Watch

Complex things
>Warping mirrors
>Telescope -> kaleidoscope
>any "perpetual motion" device
>Navigational equipment
>instruments?
>hour glass with an internal sand storm.

Maybe it's the complexity of objects failing in the depths, or maybe the Maze itself resists being measured.

Toys also strike me as thematically apropriate for some reason:
A yo-yo that keeps spinning, or a puzzle cube that seems to rearrange itself.

Maybe come up with a 5e style "Trinkets" table as personal belongings, with a fair amount of them acting in this way.

bump

What would be the ideal movement speed for the Hunger? Lumberingly slow or spookily fast?

variable state?

fast when it's hungry and slow when it's hunger has been sated?

>The Hunger
>being sated
There's something that could be used however. If player hunger ends up being a thing (and not just for Gluttons), the Hunger's speed could vary depending on the player party's collective hunger. If everyone's starving, the Hunger makes the players look as slow as turtles. The PCs might even be forced to eat disgusting and eldritch food just to get away from the thing.

i like that concept. Maybe poison os better than having the Hunter be super fast

Just keep in mind that the Hunger was a tag-in name, and that the thing itself is not actually related to the concept of hunger per se.

IIRC, The Hunger's only canon qualities are that it is an insatiable, unstoppable, and seemingly limitless force of nature which seeks to consume flesh in its slow, infinite wanderings.
I don't think we have a physical description, but in my mind it is somewhere between a Gibbering Mouther, a Black Pudding, and a miniature black hole.

Things I would reccomend:
>The Hunger must stay connected to the floor of the maze, and will generally stick to as many maze-surfaces as are near its movement path,
>The Hunger can consume anything, but only seeks out the flesh of creatures.
>Creatures are consumed instantly and inexorably. Do not touch,
> Objects are slowly dissolved into the Hunger through contact, should it consume them to reach prey. Trapping it will not work.
>The Hunger has a general size and shape, but it can also reform itself to stretch and squeeze around the depths. Fully covering tunnels that it moves through is common.
>The Hunger does not have a preference beyond the closest, largest source of meat. It seems to prefer living, or very recently dissed creatures however
>Horrors instinctively know about, and are terrified of this thing. As much as unknowable soulless monstrosities can be, anyway.

We should also try and justify why entire towns don't just get eaten by this thing. Is it unwilling to eat through walls made of Maze ground or metal? Are its stalking grounds simply too deep for most settlements to worry about it?

Actually, that might be a fun cult, who tries to "lure" the Hunger away from towns by baiting it with other meat. Horrors and cattle preferred, but humans if necessarily.

Lumberingly slow, most of the time. It should keep the party wary and moving, not engage chase scenes. then again...

"Feeding" the hunger might not be a bad idea. Perhaps it can be worked into a frenzy if denied food for too long, or it must slow or stop to "digest", even though it immediately envelops creatures of any size.
Tense chase scenes might involve trying to throw enemies to the hunger to save yourself, with enemies trying to do the same to you.

That's one take on it, anyway. There are pretty much two way to go:
>Slow, constant, unstoppable, unknowable
and
>Ravenous, but predictable

Slower should probably be the default state, though, Faster than a walk, But can be outrun without too much difficulty.

bump

bumping for the hunger

Don't forget that souls of the Hunger's prey are trapped inside it when they're devoured.

I like it like this: slow and easy to avoid when you are in good health and sanity gets faster the more injured/insane the party is.

bump, going to be adding some spells and more class/knack progression in the morning so don't let this die.

Bump

Just something to keep the thread alive and busy. Rough numbers, all.
Keep in mind that guns don't get modifiers to damage or accuracy, and deal "projectile" damage (neither bash nor cut).

Dagger
>Light melee cutting, 1d4
Spear
>Medium melee cutting, 1d8

Sledgehammer
>Heavy melee bash, 2d4

Bow
>Ranged light (finesse) weapon, cutting, 1d6
>Effective range 50ft. accuracy 40%
Sling
>Ranged light (finesse) weapon, bashing, 1d6
>Effective range 50ft. accuracy 40%

Flintlock Pistol
>Light ranged firearm, 2d6
>Range 30ft, Tech: 40, Loud
>Ammo: powder grains and lead ball: Action to load each shot
Revolver
>Light ranged firearm, 2d6
>Range 40ft, Tech: 70, Loud
>Ammo: Chambered small bullets: Action to load 6 shots

Flintlock rifle
>Heavy ranged firearm, 2d8
>Range 60ft, Tech: 30, Loud
>Ammo: powder grains and lead ball: Action to load each shot
Carbine
>Heavy ranged firearm, 2d8
>Range 60ft, Tech: 80, Loud
>Ammo: Large bullets in a magazine: Action to load 8 shots

Musket
>Heavy ranged firearm, 2d10
>Range 20ft, Tech: 20, Loud
>Ammo: powder grains and shrapnel: Action to load each shot
Shotgun
>Heavy ranged firearm, 2d10
>Range 30ft, Tech: 60, Loud
>Ammo: pump-action shells: Action to load 4 cartridges

Hand-held Crossbow
>Light ranged firearm, 2d4
>Range 30ft, Tech: 20, Quiet
>Ammo: small bolts, loaded by hand: Action to load each shot
Crossbow
>Heavy ranged firearm, 2d8
>Range 50ft, Tech 10, Quiet
>Ammo: Bolts, loaded by hand: action to load each shot

Updated feats here

Bash Master
>+5% accuracy with weapons that deal bashing damage
>Reduce an armored opponents DR by 2 when attacking
>+5% for knockback maneuver.

Blade Master
>+5% accuracy with weapons that deal cutting damage.
>Unarmored targets take 2 extra damage
>+5% to feint attacks.

Marksman
>+10% accuracy of ranged weapons
>Effective range is extended to 150% of original range
>Can perform the following maneuvers with projectiles: Trip attack, Disarm, Distracting Strike

Striker – Light weapons
>+5% to attacks
>Crit range is extended by an additional 5
>Critical Hits ignore target’s DR

Duelist – Medium weapons
>+5% to attacks
>+5% to all maneuvers
>+5% Parry chance when not using a shield
>+1 damage if two-handing a medium weapon (requires free offhand)

Destroyer – Heavy weapons
>+5% to attacks
>Add your full might score to damage on a crit
>Rolling a 1 or 2 weapon dice can be re-rolled once.

Dual Wielding Master
>when dual wielding:
>+5% to attacks when using the dual wield maneuver
>+10% to Parry attempts
>Can Dual wield with 2 medium weapons

Shield Master
>Grants +10% to dodge and parry while wielding
>Projectiles can be parried
>Can attack with shield: 40% + finesse hit rate, 1d4 + might bash damage,
>Can perform the following maneuvers with shields, gaining +5%: Knockdown, Distracting Strike, Charge Attack,

Tactician
>Maneuvers gain +5% accuracy
>Duress requirements for maneuvers are extended by 10
>Successful maneuvers deal an extra 2 Damage

Is this a fantasy heartbreaker?

I'm sorry, I have no idea what that it.

Good start still need base accuracy for most weapons and keep in mind that what specific kind of weapon you have determines what manuvers you can use.
Ex. Spear: precise strike, piercing, feint, charge?has a longer reach?
Dagger: piercing, flurry, distracting strike, feint, distracting strike.
Sledge hammer: Sweaping blow, knockdown, Viscious strike, Charge attack.

A refined version of posts from above. Frankly, I didn't want to deal with reach weapons, as it would open a whole can of complex weapon attributes, of which I have too many.

Light
>45% + finesse
>1d4 + Finesse mod
>can be thrown with only a 10 % penalty. Range = 30 ft.
>can be used as an offhand weapon with another light weapon, or a medium weapon
Light Weapon maneuvers:
> Trip attack, Feint, Disarm, Precise strike, Flurry, and Distracting strike

Medium
>35% + finesse
>1d8 + might mod
>Gets to use all maneuvers

Heavy
>20% + might
>2d4 + might
>Requires 2 hands to use
Heavy weapon maneuvers:
>Charge attack, Knockdown, Sweeping attack, Vicious strike,

Ranged (bows and slings so far)
>40% + Finesse
>1d6 + finesse

Fists
>50% + finesse
>(1+?) might mod

Thrown (without thrown attribute)
>Range = weapon base hit % - 20 (no heavy weapon tossing without knacks)
>Accuracy = (Weapon base % + modifier) - 15%

Firearms (Guns/Xbows)
>60% hit chance, no mod
>2d6-2d10 damage, no mod.
>accuracy can be upgraded with perks, damage cannot.

Dual strike maneuver (no knack required)
>Requires wielding two weapons: 2 light, or light and medium
>You may make two attacks at a 20% percent penalty with this maneuver, one with each weapon.
>You may instead do a power strike against one target with both weapons, using the lower hit rate -10, and adding both damage die together.

None of this is too carefully balanced, just based off of hunches. Also my wording is horrible. somewhere should be a disclaimer that you only receive benefits of specific knacks while wielding the relevant gear.

The concepts are there, otherwise feel free to tear apart and revise.

Put dual strike under light weapons, give it a note about medium weapon use in its description. Let medium weapons gain small % and damage benefits when two-handing under the knack.

Thrown rules, while valuable, should be a sidebar, rather than a 'weapon class'. If included in the Light weapon description, specify that they function as ranged weapons when thrown.

Fists might want to be renamed to non-weapon attacks, and include kicks,headbutts and such,

Improv weapons can be treated as having weapon attributes related to their shape (light, medium, heavy, bladed, blunt), and function accordingly, but do not gain weapon dice. Ranged weapons used in melee attacks are treated as this.

That leaves us with 3 weight classes (LMH), 2 1/2 ranged classes (Ranged, Firearms, Thrown, and 2 1/2 damage types (C/B/projectiles).

Can I get a quick rundown in this thing?

Pick your word count.

There's also a lot more stuff than is in the PDF, but we're in the process of incorporating stuff from past threads,

It should have special rules, one of which pretty much says "You cannot kill it and you will automatically fail all possible attempts at killing it"

One of the special rules would probably explain that any PC, NPC or Horror that collides with the Hunger's body will die instantly, no rolls required. If collision size is used, 4x4 or 5x5 would probably fit its general size, with the ability to compact its body to get through tight corridors in case some PCs would get the clever idea to run through a doorway.

On a side note, the PDF could use an update.

I don't think the hunger is going to even have a stat block, but yeah, something like that.

We had a guy who was keeping the PDF updated, and was our regular OP for a while, but he seems to have disappeared.

I don't mind cleaning up the text, but I don't have a clue how to handle the rest of it.