GW just released info on the fight phase in 8th

You fucking bastard i made the last three threads on this, i was in an exam and could not make this one in time

Fuck you

>run
they will be "advancing" now

Fucking stellar, gw basically adressed everything that made charging shit and fixed it

Charging units attack first

Also am stoked that people will need to make tactical decisions on who they want to die and survive, mix this with command points that are coming out later and combat just got a million times more interesting

Fine.
Use.
Will we be able to use things that don't fly now.

So if all the big guys get to hit on a 2, what is Kharn going to do now?

It doesn't mean anything at all.

This doesn't in any way affect the factors that make tyranid units garbage.

Tyranid units are garbage because they're overpriced with shitty stats, bad special rules and awful weapons. There's nothing about changes to the core game mechanics that will prevent that from being the case in 8th.

It is impossible to know if tyranids will be not shit until we have the actual rules for tyranids and the other armies.

I always thought it was silly that "run" was a specific action, like you're not gonna make a dash to cover while there's lasers and tank shells flying everywhere.

Not mechanically, just like nigga, we're already running, this is just means we didn't stop running to shoot.

re rolls to hit and to wound

Thid

Initiative stat was pure bullshit. Basically said it didnt matter if you out played your opponent and managed to menuever your troops into place, they get to kill you first because reason

Looking at you eldar

>yfw Eldar always strike first

It wasn't bullshit, should have kept it but also add the charger goes first thing. There is such a thing as lost momentum and a more agile opponent getting into their groove if they survive the charge.

It literally made no sense

I can see a more skilled warrior parrying a blow away from a un trained assailent, but that was already represented by the ws stat

If a 400 pound nob is charging you, you better be damn certain he is gonna swing at you first with his choppa, regardless if you are space degenerates

So its 100% the same rules. With a 3" pile in besides a 6" one??

>Fucking stellar, gw basically adressed everything that made charging shit and fixed it
we still have to see if charging an unit in cover removes the "iniziative bonus"

and we're still left with the problem that there can't be a single turn in which a unit in close combat will be able to avoid shooting from the rest of the army

apart from the iniziative advantage of chargers, melee saw its extra attack from pistols removed, the risk of losing models to morale even when winning the combat while shooting has drastically increased its mobility, ability to overwatch and use large templates against close enemies since there's no risk of the scattering blast hitting your own models anymore

The issue is that init basically was '3 or less' (Didn't matter, might as well be 1), 4 (Most things) or '5+' with few ways to modify it without it being set to 1.

Strength and Toughness have a scale of effectiveness from 2+ to 6+. Init was just a 'Are you higher' thing, which most armies couldn't affect.

Wrong
See this
Take for instace an interrigator chaplain and a space marine
They are in the same armor, they have the same geneseed, and a physically comparable, but the chaplain has initiative 5 instead of the space marines 4 for reasons?

His increased skill in marshal arts is already represented by ws, so why does he get to attack first even if he didnt charge? Because he is special?

You mean besides overwatch, random charge ranges, and added the bullshit of units being able to leave whenever they want and thus exposing your unit to getting shot up.

Yeah, they really fixed everything. Can't wait for my Hormagaunts to get shot to pieces when the Tactical Squad they were engaging just decide to leave and they're left out in the open.

They lost the attack in the combat, but they can now shoot their pistols even if locked in close combat

Should be if you disengage you have to take a battleshock or somehing like that

How'd the exam go?

>; it will be practically impossible to pull off the way you want
it won't be hard to set up if you put some thought into your charge move instead of just shoving eveything forward.

Ibdont know how to tell you this user, but if you run your soldiers into the middle of an open field, chances are they will get shot

Tactical Marines are shaping up the be even more underwhelming than they are now. Don't worry.

>units have zero survivability
>fucked by instinctive behaviour and the synapse tax
>slow as shit
>close combat MCs are WS3 with 3 attacks
>shooting MCs are BS3 with bad guns
>everything in the codex is 30-45% overcosted compared to equivalent units in other armies for no apparent reasons.

Why would changes to a single sub-phase fix any of that?

Shitty

Discrete signal and sytem analysis sucjs dick, i never want to see another fourier transform or laplace transform in my life

by the looks of things yeah.
throwing 30.hormagaunts into a gunline is looking to be a good disruption so your better cc units can mop up relatively unmolested.

>no more initiative
>Hitting on a fixed number so enemt ws does not matter

Where were you when genestealers were permanently cucked

Just don't take it?
It's a free movement, doesn't say it's required.

>They lost the attack in the combat, but they can now shoot their pistols even if locked in close combat
Do you really think they will be able to shoot those if the enemy can just disengage the turn before?

>inb4 but then you can shoot them and charge again
like you would the previous editions when the enemy got to flee, except now you will not gain advantage of that +1 attack for wielding the pistol

now that ai notice it, there's no talk about the additional attack for charging, we can reliably count that too among the nerfs as AoS too doesn't give said bonus

Literally how?
Only space marine bolters and flame throwers have been released and we have no other weapons to compare them too

In fact tactical marines have most options when it comes to heavy weapons, and they already said that you no longer snap if you move with heavy weapons, you only get a -1 to hit

Take your doomsday shilling somewhere else

Good. The idea that assault relied on playing hopscotch and hoping the enemy dies in their assault phase to make your plan work was stupid.

>Excited to finally see Nids be strong again
>Don't even play Nids, just one of my favorite factions
>Assault rules and MC rules shaping up to make Nids shit again

Welp.

But Swarmlord hits on 2+ :^}

>open field
It doesn't even have to be an open field anymore. I can reach the enemy gun line with all my units, get shot up in overwatch, then next turn all the units I just charged fucking leave, and any left shoot up all my assault units.

Gw seems to only be releasing the rules that have changed, not the once that are staying, so its too soon to assume any 40k rukes that havent been explicitly axed out are not going to remain in 8th

I noticed that there was no mention of penalties charging through terrain. Could it be possible that charging through terrain in 8th ed does not negate your ability to strike first?

I had to google what you said but my condolences. I'm in economics myself.

>implying genestealers won't be 2+ to hit and ASF

So after they leave just consolidate behind cover, assuming you didnt charge in the middle of an open field. Cover noe adds to your armour save

Problem solved

B-but MC Nids will have 10+ wounds with 8 toughness r-right?

You forgot shrouded and 5+ invuln

Yes, because the consolidate roll is always reliable. I'll never roll a 1 or 2 and not be able to reach cover in time. That'll definitely never happen.

Face it: being able to just leave combat is going to perma-fuck assault.

>be elf
>crouch stand behind waist high wall
>haha this should slow the orks down
>looks up to see ork in full superman pose about to land on her

I like this.

Im computer engineering
Badically have been studying non stop for the last 50 hours, only takeing breaks to eat, take exams, and post on tg

10+ wounds probably.
i wouldn't expect toughness to change though.

>So after they leave just consolidate behind cover

>implying you will get to move your models in the enemy's movement phase

Why face it? It might, but you sure as fuck aren't special enough to know how it's going to work before the rules for all the weapons and models work, or faction special rules.

Face it, you're just guessing like everyone else.

Out of curiosity what year? I've got a couple of friends doing computer engineering (and one in computer science I think) and we're all freshmen.

>Moments later an Ultramarine comes barging in to protect his waifu

I'm guessing shrouded is now going to be a penalty to hit.
wonder what invul saves will become. its seems kinda pointless leaving them as they are with armour mods

Except that its not, there are a million reasons to stay in close combat

As for adsaulting gun walls, maybe plan out the first and assault with multiple units at once? Seems retarded you are going to assault with only one unit anyways.
If you do this then all the assaulted units will have to fall back, and when you fall back you cant shoot

Again problem solved, you just have to use your fucking head and accept the fact that if you run an army with over 100 infanty models chances are most of them will die

>you're just guessing like everyone else.
the difference is that he's guessing adding the least amount of additional assumptions possible, making his guesswork more probable than yours

Did they say you couldnt?

Why are you assuming all rules that have not been mentioned will be temoved. It seems they are only highlighting the nig changes in these posts

Junior about to be senior

Tell your friends to strap in because its gonna fucking suck, dropout rate at UCONN is about 70% for my major in the first two years

>there are a million reasons to stay in close combat
list 2

They'll stay i bet, it's like a dodge or nimble action

>adding the least amount of additional assumptions possible
Nigga what the fuck are you talking about? I have no assumptions, I'm just saying there are special rules and different stats that affect how things work, we don't know if it'll actually help or not, but it's something that we don't know.

Except for the fact that you won't be able to throw a single unit of terminators at guardsmen and just hop from one unit to another without getting shot once outside of overwatch. In that case, good.

I literally said about charging with multiple units. But if you can't engage everyone they have, any gun wall is gonna fuck your units. This new assault system seems really good for picking off stragglers, but not for breaking fortified positions.

>Why are you assuming all rules that have not been mentioned will be temoved.
There's never been a single rule about consolidating your models in the opponent's movement phase
furthermore this edition is all about streamlining it seems

How about i list 7?

>holding objectives
>contesting objectives
>stopping rapid enemy advancement
>you are on the edge of the table and have nowhere to run
>if you fall back you will fall into enemy gun fire
>protecting hq / elite / hevy units
>distracting your enemy

if you play an assault based army expect to take casualties in shooting, like the shooting army will take casualties in assault

strategy is the name of the game, and if you are mindfull about unit placement and movement, you should be able to make most of your charges.

Im also pretty sure that nids will regain things like fleet and rerolling charge distances.

honestly its not that hard to assault enemies, I do it in 7th and assault is super shit in 7th.

NOT TO MENTION YOU CAN NOW ASSAULT OUT OF TRANSPORTS

Congratulations, you don't understand why tyranids suck.

A carnifex would be great in 7th edition if it actually cost what it is worth.

Also the new close combat rules that have been announced hurt assault armies more than they help them, with pistols shooting in close combat and fallback moves dicking CC units really hard.

>but not for breaking fortified positions
the trick seems to be able to charge the most units in the same turn so that when they disengage there're not many other units capable of shooting back

being able to soak up the overwatch of 3 units may pay off if when they disengage they can't shoot at all

except now you can assault out of all transports, so just don't foot slog your units

for fuck sakes a rhino in 7th cost the same as a fucking grav cannon with grav amp

its not that hard people.

What if assault marines come with two attacks on their profile instead of one?

They didn't pull it out of their ass, they pulled it from age of sigmar which has always had a 3" pile in that can be used to grab new units into combat.

>NOT TO MENTION YOU CAN NOW ASSAULT OUT OF TRANSPORTS
I'M A TYRANID PLAYER YOU STUPID FUCK! I mentioned Hormagaunts in a previous post. I DON'T HAVE TRANSPORTS.

It's not that I think I shouldn't take casualties to shooting. It's that I feel like I won't be able to survive at all, even if I make it to assault. I'll gimp one squad, only to get to shot to pieces by the rest once they leave. Hiding in combat was a primo strategy, and now I don't have it. I have less tactical options than before.

These would both help tyranids a lot!

exactly, not all profiles have been released

dont you have models that can literally spawn gaunts?

how is this even a fucking issue?

Tervigons spawn Termagants aka our shitty gun guys. We can't spawn Hormagaunts, our primary assault infantry.

Tyrannocytes exist.

Not that using them with assault units would actually be a good idea, since they'll be out of synapse and an isolated assault unit will get raped because of fall back moves.

We still don't know if assault out of deep strike is a thing. If it does, that's fantastic, I'll jam pack a Carnifexe into it since they don't really give a shit about being out of Synapse.

Oh man can you point me to where the have released the new gaunt profiles?

also in one of teh community posts they specifically mentioned by name that gaunts will have large movement stat

so maybe now they will spawn hormagaunts, also what i just type above

you are still assuming that the dudes will have the same profiles, which they will most certainly not have, since everything is getting changed

chill, GW has listened to everyones bitching for the last 4 years and taken it into consideration, expect your units to change.

>>holding objectives
you can do that while staying at less than a pair of inches from the enemy by disengaging
>>contesting objectives
same as above
>>stopping rapid enemy advancement
if the enemy wanted to advance it can disengage in his own turn
>>you are on the edge of the table and have nowhere to run
literally borderline case and even then you can disengage laterally
>>if you fall back you will fall into enemy gun fire
if the enemy wanted you in the gunfire it will disengage by himself
>>protecting hq / elite / hevy units
by leaving them in close combat or by leaving them in the open to gunfire? in both case depending on what the enemy want it may disengage
>>distracting your enemy
I'm not sure assuming the opponent is retarded can be done when thinking about strategies

Study more then faggot.

If I can analyze proton diffraction and make the thread, you can finish your exam fast enough to beat me.

>dont you have models that can literally spawn gaunts
It's not a transport, they only spawn shooting gaunts, they kill the gaunts within 12" of them when they die and those gaunts can already assault on the turn that they're spawned (which you would not do because they have the stat line of a guardsman).

Sorry, that's a mislink.

Just wait for your rules if you can't stop acting like a fucking autist when you're feeling uneasy about the unknown. You might get fucked, more than likely they're going to try to find some way to balance it though, since that's the core concept of rebuilding every fucking unit/weapon profile in the game.

disengage leaves them unable to shoot untill you charge them next turn and even then you can fire into them first anyway I dont see the issue youd be getting shot anyway by other units

>Oh man can you point me to where the have released the new gaunt profiles?
Can you point me to where either of the posts I quoted or the post I made said anything to do with gaunts movement stats?

>Transports
>Assault marine attack characteristics

No one cares if Tyranids are bad. In fact the Tyranid playerbase is so autistic I hope they're bad forever- eat shit.

What I'm doing is waiting for rules. What dumb people are doing is going "Tyranids are going to be great in this edition, I'm so excited!" when tyranids are fucked over in 7th by bad special rules and ridiculous unit pricing, not the actual core rules.

It's impossible to say which armies will be good until we can actually see the rules for the armies and units.

Invuln saves could still work as a minimum save value. I.e. A terminator facing a -4 to their armor save can still take their 5++ invuln instead of their 6+ armor save.

>not the actual core rules.
>implying it's not the core rules that crippled melee for everyone

the fact is that gaunts are gonna be moving faster than most things on the field

if new marines move 6 inches its safe to assume that gaunts will move atleast 7 - 8 inches

>units within 3-4" of the charged unit will also be dragged into combat!
I mean, this would be kinda cool if most ranged weapons weren't 24" range or more. Seems like as long as you don't put units practically touching each other you're perfectly fine. Melee still won't be a threat to you unless they can declare another charge after wiping a unit.

Even consolidating directly into another unit would be iffy since it's only a 6" move at most (going by current rules). That wouldn't even be enough to get in range of some Tactical Marines, even if they were already in Rapid Fire range.

Pretty disappointing all things considered, but better than yesterday at least. Hopefully they'll reveal something better tomorrow when they talk about end-of-phase morale checks. Here's hoping for sweeping advances and rolling assaults.
I know it won't happen though...

Gaunts move minimum 8". They said that Eldar are faster than Marines, and Hormagaunts are faster than Eldar. So that's one change I'm looking forward to.

Wait, no more assault transport rule? I can charge out of say, a rhino? PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY TELL ME THIS IS TRUE

You can only space out so much, especially against horde melee armies like Orks, guard or nids who throw a giant, cheap squad at your lines and force you to fall back.

100% true

you can now stuff 10 assault marines without jump packs into a rhino and assault out of it

m'not a marine player actually, but this makes me soooo damn happy.

EXACTLY

nids and orks will just swarm you like they always do and pull multiple units into close combat, amking them fall back and denying them any shooting in the next phase.

I play Eldar Jetbike spam - I can space out plenty and just play leap frog while I shoot at you.

>I play Eldar Jetbike spam
>the problem are the core rules

no, the problem is you, am hopeing the nerf eldar into the fucking groud, that faction has basically ruined 40k at this point.

kys