/4eg/ Fourth Edition Dungeons and Dragons General

Wew, with that image you might even be able to make people think the powers do the same thing.

The races are cancerous as well. 3.5 started the influx of autistic player races, but 4e put the nail in the coffin by having them in the fucking core book. Tieflings and dragonborn? The latter are pretty cool but tieflings? They are literal hellspawn. They would be lynched on sight. Everyone who played tieflings in my 4e game that I ran, was fucking lynched on sight. Then the party couldn't go into town for the rest of the campaign and they blamed ME for that shit. Well, that's what you get for playing a fucking demonspawn. That's also what you get for playing a fucking drow. These faggots hadn't even read Legend of Drizz't, they barely even knew who Drizzt was, they just wanted to play a drow because they were edgelords or because there are drow in World of War-Crap, I don't even know. Also they had to have two different kinds of elves for some gay-ass reason. I don't know why the fuck a CR 6 monster from previous edition had to be included as a goddamn player race but then that makes about as much sense as the rest of this stupid fantasy aids crap so I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised.

>Crushing Surge
The Invigorating keyword means the fighter will, if trained in endurance, gain [Con Mod] temporary hit points
>Disheartening Strike
The Rattling keyword means that the enemy hit, if the rogue is trained in intimidate, will suffer a -2 penalty to hit the rogue until the end of the rogue's next turn
>Piercing Strike
Just a Dex-based MBA, but targets Reflex instead of AC, meaning it is much more likely to hit because Reflex is 2 lower than AC for monsters on average

Seems like you either didn't play 4e well, or didn't look up the specifics of the system when you did. The powers provide a lot of different mechanical effects, and role-playing how you swing at a monster is the same as if you were playing any D&D edition. The thing 4e does is give something more to weapon-based classes than just swing at a dude and stand in the way.

>everyone starts with a fuckton of hit points so the combat takes goddamn forever
At level 1, my con-secondary fighter was taken down from her max HP of 28 to 4 hp with one attack from a kobold. I can understand complaining about the monsters having too much health, especially if you played in the first couple years of the game's release. I think the intent was that everyone in the party could do something cool before the end of the encounter if the monsters were more resilient. Obviously that got tedious, especially with solos, That's why they changed that math later.

>Why not just discard the lower-level powers as you level up so I don't have to fucking deal with them anymore.
You do trade-out older encounter and daily powers when you reach paragon. Your at-wills are not meant to be your powerful shit, because they're what you fall back on for go-to killing. Hell, even they double weapon damage once you reach epic-tier.

>At level 1, my con-secondary fighter was taken down from her max HP of 28 to 4 hp with one attack from a kobold.

bullshit. unless he had like a +4 fucking weapon or some shit. what kobold are you talking about, one from the monster manual?

>Also why does my fighter KNOW he can only use it once per day?
Why does he have to? Could it be that he swung so hard his shoulder is sore? A verteran who can't do this kind of shit all the time. Or maybe it's just based on how often the maneuver would work in a situation. Not a literal magic spell, but a action-movie maneuver that won't work every time. Be creative.

>who needs this other crap where there is even more shit I have to make Xs on my character sheet for
Are you really having trouble with all the numbers? I started these responses trying to be empathetic, but your whining is becoming childish here.

>Explain what the fuck martial resource management ADDS to the game.
You don't like managing numbers or tactics. We get it. I bet you didn't like managing flanking, bonus types, or rituals either

Those powers seem pretty different to me.

I assume you're familiar with the MM3 business card, you take a level 2 kobold dragonshield and add a level-appropriate encounter power the average damage for the power would be 15, and if it rolls well, then it'll get into the 20s on that hit since it's 3d6+6 or something to reach that average damage
I wasn't the DM for this game, but the math worked out, despite my ass-hurt at the time

src. Monster Vault pg 181

Don't bother the halfling argument outs him as a local retard in /fiveggs/

I hate 4e as much as the next guy but this is some real fucking autism. You don't have to play the edition if you don't like it you know.

I said talk about Dark Sun

Is there a planescape supplement for 5e?

This is truly the butthurt 3.5/pf edition.

We tried 4e with my group recently. It's awesome. The combat is way more interesting, we can do a lot more right at the start, and it hinders in no way RP.
I mean, RP is like it's always been. You play your character, and throw a skill check sometimes.

>This is truly the butthurt 3.5/pf edition.

Except I don't like 3.5 either.

>The combat is way more interesting,

It's a slogfest of pre-packaged maneuvers. It's like fucking Dota 2. If you find that interesting just have a fuckin Dota lan party every time you get into a combat, it'd be more fun.

>Why does he have to?

Because he is capable of making plans based off of those maneuvers. Just like he is capable of making plans based off of being low on HP, because he is worn out. Except he knows exactly what powers he can no longer use. Also why the fuck does his shoulder get sore every time he uses a disarm maneuver? If that's your excuse then you clearly know nothing about fighting.

>Not a literal magic spell, but a action-movie maneuver that won't work every time.

Then he should be able to make a check in order to pull off that maneuver. Because it DOES work every time: once he has had a long rest. Not only that but he can make plans based off of what powers he has available, therefore he is aware of them.

>Are you really having trouble with all the numbers?

Fucking kill yourself retard, I used to play 3.5 before 4e and the combination of those two made me give up on D&D forever. And 3.5 had FAR more math than 4e. But 4e makes me mark off what powers I've used and I either keep track on a fucking scrap paper or I use tokens all over my fucking sheet, and it adds NOTHING to the fucking experience. I wouldn't mind if fighter resource management was a good mechanic, but it's not, and it just adds more bookeeping I don't need.

>don't like tactics

Oh like picking which prepackaged bullshit maneuver to use? Fuck off. At least other RPGs have their combat tactics emerge organically, rather than plastering them on to structure them as much as possible like a crappy video game.

> I bet you didn't like managing flanking, bonus types, or rituals either

I have no problem with flanking, and rituals are a cool idea. Too bad they are surrounded by a shitmess of a system I can barely appreciate them.

>Then he should be able to make a check in order to pull off that maneuver.
No, he shouldn't, because it annihilates any semblance of balance and makes no sense.

Fuck off.

>No, he shouldn't, because it annihilates any semblance of balance and makes no sense.

HAHAHAHA how the fuck does it make less sense than "you can use this maneuver you learned only once per day because somehow the laws of the universe coincide to only allow the appropriate situation to come up once per day.

>inb4 you try to use the "wurld made of majiikk XD XD" argument like a typical 4e cocksucker

>It's a slogfest of pre-packaged maneuvers. It's like fucking Dota 2. If you find that interesting just have a fuckin Dota lan party every time you get into a combat, it'd be more fun.
kek

And spells aren't pre packaged maneuvers at all. No ma'am, spells are perfect.

>At least other RPGs have their combat tactics emerge organically, rather than plastering them on to structure them as much as possible like a crappy video game.

Oh yes, I do want to hear what awesome game you play. I'm sure it's genius.

have you ever watched a fight in a movie, and the protag throws a chair or punches a guy into another guy, or some other weird situational thing?
Think about martial encounter/dailies like that. The opportunity to do it pops up only so often. The meta-planning you're attributing to your character is meta-planning. You're doing it. Your character isn't aware of game abstractions like healing surges, or hit points, or encounter or daily powers, or even powers at all. To your dude, he's just in a scuffle with some orcs and sees an opening that he can manipulate. He doesn't know he's bloodied; that's something you the player know so you can plan and work with it.

I wish Wizards had released 4e under a different IP. Making a game about having lots of tactical battles would have been great.

'D&D Tactics' would have removed all these arguments, but also would have left it with no support at all.

>And spells aren't pre packaged maneuvers at all
Did I say they weren't?
>Oh yes, I do want to hear what awesome game you play. I'm sure it's genius.

Well for one, 5e is objectively better than 4e, if we're talking D&D. If we're talking non-D&D games, then the number of which that surpass 4e in design quality are too many to list. I mean, I have a list, but you would be better off looking up "list of table top roleplaying games" on google, deleting 4e from that list, and reading it off in no particular order.

>'D&D Tactics' would have removed all these arguments,

No, the game would still be shit.

>It's like fucking Dota 2
What does that even mean?

But you wouldn't care because it would have been a side game.
How often do you go and pick fights about the D&D video games, or that board game they made.

He's trying to do the same 'WoW clone' meme but with fresh paint.

Does Michael Jordan try to make shots from the beginning of the opposite side of the court nonstop?

No?

Then fuck off.

>5e
5e is full of pre packaged shit. It's all D&D have. And guess what? In 5e, exactly like in 4e, martials have short rest or long rest abilities. And big surprise: they suck compared to casters, and have not even half the fun abilities they have in 4e.

Just that means you're full of shit. You're just sperging about 4e because you don't like it, when a game you think is "objectively better" do the EXACT SAME THING, but it's more "aesthetic" for you, so you can swallow the pill.

Actions in Burning Wheel are pre-packaged, powers and talents in Star Wars FFG are pre-packaged, even in fucking Call of Cthulhu you have "pre-packaged" maneuvers. It's called having RULES. You want to shoot X times with your rifle? Well you have to take THIS precise action, that will do THIS precise thing.

If you want to get rid of that, then go full freeform combat, with only skillcheck and no other rules, because otherwise it's always going to be "pre packaged shit" you sperg

>But you wouldn't care because it would have been a side game.

That doesn't change anything as to the quality of the game though. Also 4e isn't the official version of D&D anyway so no one fucking cares.

>Does Michael Jordan try to make shots from the beginning of the opposite side of the court nonstop?

No, but he also isn't aware he can do it once and only once, before taking an 8 hour nap, at which point he can suddenly do it again whenever he wants to. Once.

>Then fuck off.

Just neck yourself you fucking loser, your abstraction is complete bullshit and you know it. It's shit mechanically, and it's shit flavor-wise.

Because you push buttons and your fucking prepackaged maneuvers go off, with no actual tactics or forethought. Just mindless peg-fits-hole application, so you can masturbate over using the correct maneuver and feel like a big bad tactician. Hell, Dota even has ongoing damage and minions. It's so much like 4e it's not even funny.

Wow, it's almost like that describes every game ever.

>Wizards are exactly like Dota, you push your spell button and it goes off, with no actual tactics or forethought. Just mindless peg-fits-hole application, so you can masturbate over using the correct spell and feel like a big bad tactician. Hell, Dota even has ongoing damage and low CR mobs for quick xp and gold. It's so much like 5e it's not even funny.

>In 5e, exactly like in 4e, martials have short rest or long rest abilities.

Yes and they are the worst part of the game, bar nothing. Even the fucking tranny mechanics are better.

>5e is full of pre packaged shit. It's all D&D have.

Nice reductionist logic. 5e has more meaningful choices than picking which maneuver that will do a half-fart of damage to an enemy and wear them down slightly faster.

>Actions in Burning Wheel are pre-packaged, powers and talents in Star Wars FFG are pre-packaged, even in fucking Call of Cthulhu you have "pre-packaged" maneuvers. It's called having RULES. You want to shoot X times with your rifle? Well you have to take THIS precise action, that will do THIS precise thing.

You're missing the point, autist. The actions in those books are meant to represent in-world actions and the mechanics tend to follow that. 4e just creates a bunch of maneuvers to satisfy the meta-game only, and inherently lends itself to metagaming. It's bullshit because all of your character's actions are bullshit, they can't know they are going to only be able to do X maneuver once by your "lucky timing / situation" """logic""", yet they do, and they have to in order for any of the in-world events to make sense.

Spells can be used in clever ways, though. The 4e maneuvers define all of the end behavior of their execution, and most of their consequences take place entirely within the mechanics, rather than actually doing something in the world, so there's not much creative shit you can do with them. O

Why is it that every 4E thread on the board will always have a literal fucking autist shitposting in it?

Wow, except it doesn't. Other games have rules for shit like flanking or aiming or disarming that are actually effective because the players can't just press a button and get +10 to hit once per day, or double damage. or they do shit like knocking over a bookshelf onto an enemy. But why would anyone do that in 4e, when all the monsters have 100 hit points and a bookshelf falling does 2d6, but if you use your SUPER COOL DRAGON CLAW POWAH you can deal 2d10+12 instead?

>Other games have rules for shit like flanking or aiming or disarming that are actually effective
Which are prepackaged abilities.

You're literally going full autistic screeching here because the game's decisions don't map 1:1 to reality. Go away.

Because you ruined D&D by (1) hijacking the game into normie/roastie-palatable bullshit for 4 years straight, (2) injecting tieflings and dragonborn which are the most cancerous races to ever exist, into the core players handbook, cementing them as an "I can play this race" rather than " I have to ask the DM permission to play this trace", (3) spawning Pathfinder which took the shit-muffin that was 3.5, picked the one or two bits of diamond out of it and threw them away before caking it with fried diarrhea, and then (4) fucking up 5e because the faggot devs who made 4e were allowed to continue designing games for Wizards let alone drawing breath, and injected more of 4e's shitty mechanics into 5e and making it suck raw shit.

You fucked up three editions of D&D in a row. D&D is pretty shitty anyways, but it could have evolved into something tolerable, and you fuckwits ruined it. Now we have second wind and action surge and fucking battlemaster maneuver dice, all because you people wanted to make martials """interesting""", and instead of creating an actual system to support that, you just gave them spellcasting disguised as """""maneuvers"""". The fucking 3.5 tactical feats were more interesting than 4e manevuers because at least you had to set them up, there was some slightly bit of potential there no matter how shitty the execution. Hell, even AD&D style combat where the fighter hitting something actually mattered, was fine too, but no, we had to go back to monsters having 100 hit points by CR 5 because that's the way 4e's padded sumo bullshit worked.

>Nice reductionist logic. 5e has more meaningful choices than picking which maneuver that will do a half-fart of damage to an enemy and wear them down slightly faster.

No, it does not. 5e is full of shit abilities that only give you a fucking bonus, with no strategy at all. And the funniest thing is that even 4e does that better, like giving the rogue an ability to reroll failed stealth roll in certain circumstances, making the 4e rogue more stealthier than the 5e rogue can even hope to be.

>You're missing the point, autist
No, YOU'RE missing the point, you sperg. Actions in 4e represent in-world actions, with a description, and the effect follow the action to the letter. They are carefuly crafted to be used with strategy, and allow you to use them creatively with a combination of feats or use of the terrain.

What YOU want, is abilities that can be twisted so you can feel creative when you did something that no one ever intended, because it's fucking bonkers.

It's also funny when you speak about creativity: my group never thought about combat, placement and tacticts much when they played any other game. In 4e, everyone try to be creative, because the system give you tools to be creative.

>so no one fucking cares
It certainly seems like someone cares quite a bit about telling us we shouldn't have fun.

Swords in real life are more deadly than bookshelves falling on you too. But a bookshelf falling on someone certainly does immobilize them. Also could target multiple duders.

>Which are prepackaged abilities.

No they aren't. They are mechanics. The abilities exist on top of the mechanics. In a good game, the abilities interact with the mechanics, rather than replacing them. If you can't understand the distinction you are a stupid fuck.

>He's a triggered grognard
Predictable.

I forgot there is no mechanic for flanking in 4e.
Oh wait! There is!

...

>5e is full of shit abilities that only give you a fucking bonus

Like that's any different than "once per day you can deal DOUBLE DAMAGE ZOMG"??

>making the 4e rogue more stealthier than the 5e rogue can even hope to be.

That's because the numbers are smaller in 5e numbnuts.

> like giving the rogue an ability to reroll failed stealth roll in certain circumstances

And why should he be allowed to do that? To make the roll even less meaningful by allowing take-backsies? Like every other shitty narrative game out there?

That's part of the problem: 4e is a narrative edition of a game that has been focused on gamist for most of its history.

>4e is a narrative edition of a game that has been focused on gamist
Full retard.

>No, YOU'RE missing the point, you sperg. Actions in 4e represent in-world actions, with a description, and the effect follow the action to the letter. They are carefuly crafted to be used with strategy, and allow you to use them creatively with a combination of feats or use of the terrain.
>What YOU want, is abilities that can be twisted so you can feel creative when you did something that no one ever intended, because it's fucking bonkers.

You're just strawmanning and have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

>It's also funny when you speak about creativity: my group never thought about combat, placement and tacticts much when they played any other game. In 4e, everyone try to be creative, because the system give you tools to be creative.

Give an example for your baseless assertion, then maybe we'll talk.

Then explain how your D&D character knows he can only use Rain of Steel once per day. If he doesn't, then your character is making plans based on shit he doesn't know. Maneuvers are metacurrency, just like FATE points or bennies. That is a key aspect of narrative games.

Better edition than 4e. At least you can actually die in 4e, rather than starting out with 25 times the hit points of an average orc warrior. Or having orcs trying to do an ambush by jumping down on characters from a small rock overhang (5 feet tall) and instantly half of them die failing their acrobatics checks from a 5 foot fall and taking 1d10 damage.

>Then explain how your D&D character knows he can only use Rain of Steel once per day.
Because he's too fatigued to do that specific set of maneuvers again, because enemies have wised up to it for now, because he's not in the correct position to do it?

Literal autism.

>I forgot there is no mechanic for flanking in 4e.

When did I claim or imply there wasn't? It doesn't fucking matter if there is flanking or not, though, because why bother with flanking when you can shift 5 squares and deal MEGA DAMAGE because you haven't used up your daily powah yet?

Because unlike literally every other edition before it, AC actually matters in 4E because accuracy doesn't scale twice as fast as defenses.

>Because he's too fatigued to do that specific set of maneuvers again

From attempting a simple disarm maneuver? Also, why isn't this based on Constitution, if it has to do with fatigue?

> because enemies have wised up to it for now

Okay, he goes into a different room and fights a different set of enemies. Still can't use it cause it's a daily power.

>because he's not in the correct position to do it?

Yet he decides when he is in the correct position to use it. Just that, once he does, he can't do it for another day. Even if he were in the exact same position he would not be able to do it.

The real reason is, maneuvers are metacurrency. They are a narrative mechanics designed to affect the flow of the narrative, NOT to relate to the in-game world in any way.

>Also, why isn't this based on Constitution, if it has to do with fatigue?
Because that's clunky and makes the game nigh impossible to balance?
>NOT to relate to the in-game world in any way.
Yes, because describing the exact effect of what you're doing doesn't relate to the game in any way. Stop autistically screeching about narrativism for five seconds and actually think.

>Like that's any different than "once per day you can deal DOUBLE DAMAGE ZOMG"??
That's very different from an abilities that allows you to make your bard diplomancer reroll a charisma check by creating a distraction as a rogue.

>That's because the numbers are smaller in 5e numbnuts.
No, that's beause the rogue in 4e actually have abilities that help him in stealth. 5e has expertise and bonus action hiding, and the invisibility spell.

>That's part of the problem: 4e is a narrative edition of a game that has been focused on gamist for most of its history.
Fucking hell.

>You're just strawmanning and have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
Oh yes, when you talk about using spells in "clever ways" you're absolutely not talking about breaking a campaign because you had a "good idea" of a loophole in a spell.
There is nothing wrong with the abilities in 4e. They do what they say on the tin, have a precise effect, and this effect can be used with strategy.
Having a bullshit button "I trap your soul in a jar" is not strategy, or cleverness, it's pure shit.
And if you even mention battlefield control spell: it exists in 4e, so fuck off.

AC matters in other editions, too, fuckwit. Including 5e which has bounded accuracy. Probably the only good import from 4e.

4E didn't have bounded accuracy.

>Because that's clunky and makes the game nigh impossible to balance?

And having a sheet full of dumb-ass maneuvers isn't? Also, you just invalidated your own explanation for why I can only use steel rain once per day. You basically went:

>why can I use steel rain once per day
>cause you get tired afterwards
>then why can't a tougher character use it more
>BECAUSE THAT'S UNBALANCED

yeah you're full of shit. Admit the daily powers are a shitty abstraction and an attempt to force martials to play by the casters' rules because that's the only way that they can balance them.

>And having a sheet full of dumb-ass maneuvers isn't?
No, because that's the far superior option if you want them to actually be able to do anything.

No, it didn't. It had AC and stats scaling out the ass. It was a bit better than 3.5, sure, but the math in 5e actually works whereas 4e doesn't. Not to mention how a 20th level character who has never picked up a history book in his life knows more about history than a 1st level character who ahs studied his entire life.

How the FUCK do I get into D&D?

>Not to mention how a 20th level character who has never picked up a history book in his life knows more about history than a 1st level character who ahs studied his entire life.
Good, that's how it should be.

So you are implying that the only possible way martials can be interesting, is by having resource consumption? That is the ONLY way to make martial characters effective and entertaining to play.

Go ahead and say it. I know you want to.

Play the 5e starter set. It's free.

Buy the books, find a group. Or the reverse. And play the edition you want, not the edition some sperg tell you to play.

Why? He knows literally nothing about history. In his travels he has purposely ignored most of the lore of the world. Yet he still knows more than a level 1 sage who has spent his entire life researching. That doesn't make any sense, and neither does the bullshit maneuvers system.

Your edition is a raw sewer line of steaming crap. Get over it.

>Why?
Because he's level 20, he's knocking on literal demigodhood, he's adventured enough to the point where he's personally seen a good chunk of what's written in those books and a lot more that isn't.

>he's adventured enough to the point where he's personally seen a good chunk of what's written in those books and a lot more that isn't.

Except he could easily have made it to level 20 without seeing a vast portion of the surrounding world. Not every campaign has epic quests to god knows where.

>he's knocking on literal demigodhood

No one cares. This means absolutely nothing. If you don't like the example, use another skill. Why does a ranger who has never gone into a city, have +10 base to Streetwise, as opposed to a rogue who has grown up swindling people and sneaking around the city.

>Why does a ranger
For the exact same reason I just told you. You not accepting it doesn't make it invalid.

>Why does *corner case that I made up* not function in a game that's not meant for the kind of character I made up? This game sucks!

Wanna know what's even worse than 4e itself? The 4e comic series. Truly awful. Good thing it died with the edition.

>For the exact same reason I just told you

You explanation is bull shit though. Explain how he would have learned those skills. No made-up asspull bullshit this time. Try one more time.

>a comic no one read is bad

A tree fell in the forest, too, user.

>Explain how he would have learned those skills.
I just did.

>ranger that doesn't spend much time in cities
>"wahh you're not playing the character right"

Oh sorry, is my ranger supposed to be a cultured socialite? It's not a corner case you mongoloid, I've gone entire campaigns without using certain skills even once. I had +0 in those skills at the beginning, now I have +10. How did that happen, exactly? Oh wait, it's because I fought a lot of goblins and now I'm a LITERAL god. Yeah, this is why no one takes 4e seriously as a system, it's autistic powerwank shitmongering.

>characters get generally better the more experienced they are
>THIS MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER AND CANNOT STAND, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Just
stop
replying

How about someone bans him for intentionally fucking up a thread?

How would you make martials interesting?

And your explanation is bull shit. Did he just magically learn streetwise skill? How, when he has never used it before in his life? He couldn't have: once again, 4e is shit, and once again, you are trying to cover it up with an explanation that makes no fucking sense. Does your character have literal omniscience like a demigod? No? Then explain how the fuck he knows a bunch of history he has never had any contact with, or read about. Oh wait, you can't, Just like you can't explain why my fighter can use rain of steel only once per day, then I BTFO your explanation and you move the goalposts to "wah wah unbalanced", you are unable to defend your system's shitty design choices from either a gamist or narrativisit standpoint, you have no argument yet you just sit stubbornly and insist your bullshit arguments hold water., when they don't. You just make up bullshit and insist it's true. Kill yourself.

You deserve to get fucking brain cancer.

>discussing a game's design, then being annoyed when people can't even come up with a viable counterargument, is "fucking up a thread."

But they can't. They know their game is garbage, and it cuts deep. This is NO different than when 3aboos get butthurt over people BTFOing 3.5.

>characters get generally better the more experienced they are

Except the character has no experience with history, did you even read my fucking post?

You know what's way more stupid than someone learning enough about a skill they should've been exposed to a thousand times by the time they hit level 20?

Not learning a single thing about anything not within your specialization in the same timeframe. Doesn't matter how many times you watched your rogue buddy pick a lock or explain how to sneak, you're still stuck at +0.

Hey /4eG/ what would you like to see made for 4e? What kind of adventures, or classes, items, etc.

I would actually have really liked to see more stuff on Hybrids, they were interesting. Especially Paragon Paths relating to them.

Kitsune who aren't just fox hengeyokai.

A port of the cooler parts of ToB. Not as their own classes, but as powers for suitable classes and Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies for stuff like prestige classes.

>Doesn't matter how many times you watched your rogue buddy pick a lock or explain how to sneak, you're still stuck at +0.

Except most fighters don't even bother learning to pick locks. And why would a rogue teach the fighter to pick locks? That's a waste of goddamn time. And are you telling me that a fighter spends over 5 years during an average D&D campaign learning to pick locks? Because that's about how long it would a 1st level rogue to learn, and still be worse than a fighter who has never touched lockpicks before.

>Not learning a single thing about anything not within your specialization in the same timeframe.

Except it's not the same time frame. By your logic the fighter ought to be able to cast Magic Missile from being around the wizard so much.

>A port of the cooler parts of ToB

You mean D&D 4e itself? How are the two any different?

I would honestly just use the elf or drow stats.

Do you see an Eternal Blade or Jade Phoenix Mage PP/ED anywhere?

No, but who misses them? There's probably something that's pretty much the same in the game, just with different word-salad names.

Well congrats, you're wrong on both counts.