Sooner or later these two will face off one on one. The question is, who is currently stronger in the fluff...

Khan does need to return.
But so do the others.
Including the demons.

And 30k appearances should arrive first.

>the literally who of the primarchs

I laughed but also agree

t. butthurt 40kiddy who's been into 40k for 18 months and still thinks the lore is badass

Abadabba. Gman has him beat in pure physical prowess, but Magnus effectively beat Guilliman, but is forced to bow before Abaddon.
Additionaly Abby has a daemon sowrd that contains a daemon more powerful than the Emperor.

the lore is badass tho

But he's not Corvus, Mortarion, or Lion'el.

That's because people actually care about those guys and play their chapters/legions. Unlike, you know, White Scars.

Hate Abaddon. Get him out of the way and bring back some motivated fallen Primarchs who haven't been sucking/mary sueing/retcon waiting to happening for past 10k years.

Go Bobby G.

Then go fight some Nids+Necrons cause Primarchs haven't fought them before.

I wouldn't say more powerful. Just uses a different meta.

I might be wrong here,but isn't abaddon as strong as powered up horus in canon?(or maybe he was stronger?). If this is correct abaddon is as strong as the emperor and far stronger then guilly.

Squats > All

I'm an Ultrafag but Celestine turning out to be the real hero would be pretty cool with me.

>Speeding in out of nowhere, jumping into the fray and getting in everyone's face in a gloriously awesome panning shot of him atop his jetbike.

This is how the Khan would want to come back.

10/10

>lion a literally who
Are you retarded?

If you take The Master of Mankind at face value then the fact abby has Drach'nyen makes him stronger by default.

If you want to ignore MoM then abby is already practically as strong as Horus due to the mark of choas ascendant.

By all standards abby should win after a very hard fight... but we all know GW will never let him win. They may be dumb but they're not stupid. Abby defeating Gulliboy would result in an end times event and the need to reset the 40k universe and they aren't stupid enough to risk that.

Gulliman will win, perhaps with the help of Celestine simply because GW can't let him lose.

This may all change with the release of more primarchs though.

I bet the fight will end up in a draw for whatever reason

Rowboat could have his shit kicked in, then the missing primarchs return from the warp, saving the imperium, and killing Abby because chaos undivided is dull as all cuckery.

Smurfs get squatted. Yellow man carries codex. And strategically/tactically interesting marines carry the imperium alongside flavoured guard. Instead of boring cadia which got fucked.

Then you have juicy room for the xenos to make a worthwhile appearance.

Pretty simple. Cadia results in necrons. Which results in knife ears. Which results in slaanesh. Then tau. Orcs want to fight the weebs. Then nids come to feast on the orc hordes.

Imperium under siege the entire time.

Khorne happy because war.
Tzeentch "just as planned" across the board
Nurgle would need a little something though. Maybe nids related.

But it's gw. So Mary Sue and her friends will shit it up. Along with powercreeping shitrules. And stupid models.

If it is a xeno, I think being a Tau would be the best one. Both the Eldar and Necrons have had their times in the sun, whilst Orks and Tyranids are against everyone.

At the moment, Tau are just this wacky small Empire that accept a variety of xenos. Right now they're barely worth a footnote, but one of their things is that they're resistant to Chaos and possibly genetically engineered to be so by some older race. Having Chaos' ultimate bane come from the blueberries would give them a reason for existing and be a neat plot twist.

Also the salt from anti-Taufags would be beautiful.

He'll win by teaming up with Y-whatever her name is (the Eldar that revived him). Fuck Age of Guilliman 40k. 3rd edition here I come.

When's the last Time Lion'el triggered any sort of reaction on Veeky Forums besides that of "a less shitty Leman Russ"

Games workshop wins

in my Opinion Roboute should simply outsmart Abbadon. not playing by abbadons rules would be the guilliman thing to do, and would actually be a nice twist.

my favourite idea: Roboute Seals Abbadon in his own Stasis Chamber.

The loyal primarchs will finally return, come together uniting their powers of truth, love, and compassion to take out the big bad.
And remember Imperium,
The Power Is Yours

Guilliman has a plastic model

Abaddon does now

guess.

Also a brand new leader of Chaos would do well, it will be a nice contrast to Guilliman.

The Imps needed to bring back an old leader form the great crusade era while Chaos has an young upstart

fuck me

Not*

Gulliman with the help of the Culexus Clade to nullify abaddon's stupid fucking sword, and then maybe Celestine in a climactic reversal once the assassin's break the sword and then promptly die.

Rowboat Girlyman is a Primarch, and as strong as Abaddon is I think it'd be a little bullshit for him to now suddenly win after failing over a dozen previous Black Crusades when the imperium DIDN'T have a primarch in their corner.

>Culexus Clade to nullify abaddon's stupid fucking sword

Not even an army of Sisters of Silence or the Pylons activating were enough to fully nullify its power or banish it back to the Warp.

It literally killed Sisters of Silence by the boatload.

Reminder that Celestine (s3) and her 2 unaugumented assistants were a match for abbadon, in a straight up fight Guilliman SHOULD handle him easily.

I actually want to see Abbadon get absolutely BTFO by guilliman, with the fight ending with his arms getting cut off and Fulgrim showing up and stabbing him from behind because only he gets the honor of killing guilliman. After that, chaos undivided goes to shit and the daemon primarchs are left in charge with their own agendas.

>Reminder that Celestine (s3) and her 2 unaugumented assistants were a match for abbadon,

Abaddon did not call upon the power of Drach'nyen though. So he wasn't fighting at full strength.

And Celestine was going around killing daemon princes and Greater Daemons with her holiness. Girlyman has no holy power to counteract Abaddon's unholy power. Girlyman is at a massive disadvantage especially if Abaddon taps into his sword.

*unsheathes bolt pistols
*teleports behind abbadon
"Nothing personal, zeke"

These. It'd be bullshit to have a primarch lose to Abaddon. And more interesting to see the Imperium try to reform and get shit together while the various daemon primarchs start coming up to pursue their own agendas and stir shit up and have chaos undivided in the background trying to reunite. Would give something for Lorgar to do too. He has a big grudge against Roboute more than anybody and probably won't be too happy seeing him back. Fulgrim too, but I feel like Fulgrim gave less shits about Roboute than he did about Ferrus Manus.

>It'd be bullshit to have a primarch lose to Abaddon.

Nope, Archaon uses a sword that works the same as Abaddon's sword. Once Archaon drew upon his sword's power, he was fighting literal gods and winning.

>. Girlyman has no holy power to counteract Abaddon's unholy power.
He has Ynnead's blessing.

>Once Archaon drew upon his sword's power, he was fighting literal gods and winning
Not until he got a massive power boost in AoS where he's practically a god himself and is capable of impossible feats like literally breaking worlds. In fantasy he lost the fight to a wounded sigmar and had the sword blown up with sigmars bare hands. For their respective settings, Abbadon is currently closer to where fantasy Archaon was, not quite AoS levels yet. Yet.

After a long battle with stunning sword play and thrilling combat, the champions of light and dark are separated by an explosion, a stray she'll.
Picking himself up, Abbadon notices Gulliman was separated from his father's blade. Moving quicker than should be possible, he seizes it in The Talon of Horus. Both weapons scream furiously in the warp, their emnity driving the dull spirits of the tools of war mad.
Holding it aloft, nearby traitor marines roar their approval.
Rowboat staggers to his feet.

Abbadon sneers and levels the blade at Gulliman, seeing the defeated but defiant look in his green eyes...

The primarchs eyes. They were not previously green. Thin lines in his face also reveal cracks of green glow.

Abbadon steps back confused as more green lines trace across the Primarchs form. All at once, Gulliman twists and unfolds impossibly to become a metal ring, lined with green circuitry.

Beyond the gate is a realm of pure silence and shadow. The warp does not resonate there. Ezekyle can feel the powers of chaos leeching from his soul towards this black abyss.

He is blinded by stabbing lights and the growling of a beast, no many beasts, No!
Engines. His eyes adjusting he sees a hundred Baneblades beyond the gate their weapons trained on him. In the commanders cupola stands a man with a massive cigar chomped between teeth that form a rictus grin.

I am talking about Archaon in WHFB End Times. The Incarnates were godly beings having an entire wind of magic powering them.

Archaon fought Heavens Incarnate Karl and defeated him.
Archaon fought Fire Incarnate Slayer Dwarf King. and survived the suicide explosion.
Archaon fought Beasts Incarnate Grimgor and beheaded him.

Archaon used two artifacts in order to boost himself to the level of these Incarnates. The Eye of Sheerin and his sword the Slayer of Kings. And fucking Archaon was wounded as well and lost one of his artifacts before fighting Sigmar. It's said that if the Eye of Sheerin wasn't broken, then Sigmar would have lost the battle. Archaon would have simply removed the Wind of Heavens from Sigmar the same way he did with Karl.

does anyone actually like abbadon ?
the only people that didn't mind him before did so because he was the "strongest" character fluffwise for chaos, now that the primarchs are back that's no longer the case.

I like some of his fluff in the black legion book. It goes a long way to make him more interesting

>CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!

>Archaon
>would have lost to Bruner the bounty hunter if his pistol didn't jam at the worst moment
top kek

So which books do I need to read to catch up to the newest lore changes? The Gathering Storm ones or is there anything else?

A Daemon Primarch bowing before the "chosen" champion of Chaos is not applicable to this situation I think.

Kinda his main shtick. He kep to himself and avoided contact with all but the his two bros he deemed worth the trouble (Horus and Magnus), so in the end noone knew shit about him. Much like Alpharius, except with less bullshit.

>It'd be bullshit to have a primarch lose to Abaddon.
He alaready fought against half of the Chaos Primarchsin the legion wars. And won!
Granted he cheated and abused their daemonic weakneses, but he could find a way to cheat against the big G too, especially considering his weak points all but glow in the dark.

Failbaddon is weak as piss

He defeated Fulgrim during the Legion wars though.
AKA tha guy who beat the shit out of the big G.

Guilliman is currently (fluff wise anyway) far above abaddon.

Abaddon might be able to hold him off for a bit but he shouldn't be able to win solo

Jesus Christ the size of those hips. Gets me hard every time.

Khan will then get hacked to pieces by you know who

>The Khan
>After spending Millenia fighting DEldar in bike fights in the webway
>getting offed by some Drug-addled Pleasure Seeker who hasn't shown his face in years
Somehow that seems less than likely

>people care about or play Raven Guard

Wrath of Magnus and Death Masque, then Gathering Storm.

Also, Doomrider got his cocaine filled head ripped off by Kor'sarro Khan. So yeah.

Him and Sang were pretty tight if I remember right. They started the whole Librerius thing.

>Music
>Not the typical White scar laughter and glorious mongolian throat ringing

Pleb

>Thinking White Scars wouldn't ride into battle lightning fast to the sound of Eurobeat.
Who's calling who a pleb again?

>Abby unleashes a terrible evil
>Foolish girlyman, wielding the emperors blade, steps forward to oppose
>before papa smurf can land the final blow, tzeench tears open a hole in time and slings the blueberry into the far future, where chaos rules unopposed
>Now the blue baller seeks to return to the past, to stop chaos, once and for all.

Rowboat and armless square off. Manly man meat smacking occurs. Rowboat runs out of rows cuz he's in a pimped out suit of armor that functions as a dreadnaught. Abby gets upper hand.

Celestine shows up and armless hisses cuz "muh holy light".

Knife ear emotits shows up and bounces around a lot in interpretive dance.

If on Terra, or in Sol. Dorn shows up and smarms it up with reinforcements from terra.

Armless, outnumbered by named characters and cannon fodder decides he needs to fuck back off to eye shaking fist and yelling " I'll get you next time joes!"

Elephas doesn't open portal. Armless gets tag teamed.

Pillows under a dress get your pee pee hard does it?

Given that Fantasy ended in the ultimate CHAOSWINSLOL bullshit, Abby getting BTFO would be glorious.

Abbadon of course, since GW cannot stop sucking chaos cock.

Guilliman, back to the past, Roboute Guilliman!
Watcha!

Would Yvraine be the high priestess in this universe, and Guilliman is saved from Nurgle's despair by her aeldari daughter?

I do. Mostly because it triggers 1d4chan memelords.

Guilliman. He's the Major Imperium Special Character so he automatically has a 90% chance of winning.

What if, in the ultimate battle of destiny on Terra, a powered up Abaddon fights Guilliman, who has both holy powers through emperor's intervention and the Ynnead's blessing very weeaboo-ish, I know, but what isn't nowadays? ? What if he actuallly cuts Abaddon's arms in the fight, making the meme canon?

>Guilliman
>Ynnead's blessing
Tragic thing is with state of lore these days the Primarchs getting the blessings of the Eldar Gods instead of Eldar seems pretty believeable.

Eldar gods want Chaos dead and defeated, right? Why not give their blessings to the strongest adversary Chaos has?

Also, I'm sure the power of Yvraine's love for Guilliman will allow him to defeat any foe.

Dayyyuuum gurl!

I'd give her a blessing, if you know what I mean.

>NewGW(tm)
>makes it look nobledark
>leads up to a bullshit ending where Girlyman cuts through hordes of chaos to get to Abbadon
>in his attempt to solo Chaos he forgets he isn't a psyker
>the chaos gods actually have a brief moment of working together upon realising their pet champion is actually in physical danger
>a KoS, GUO, and a LoC all unleash a storm of hexes upon Girlyman
>Girlyman for all his might can only bullshit his way through so much warp fuckery
>infected with Nurgle's Rot, his body and soul on fire, and his mind alight with pleasure on pain
>the champion of light falls to overconfidence and Armless commands a Bloodthirster to take his skull as a final insult to the blue smurf primarch
>Celestine and the rest of the power of friendship gang catch up, barely rescue Girlyman and get him out of there
>some epic fights between some powerful greater demons and the power rangers of anti-chaos ensues
>Armless still fails to win a crusade but shoots a mocking "Crusades aren't so easy, Primarch" or something equally cheesy and badly written
>the ending satisfies no one, Girlyman is not dead, but needs his life support armor repaired/replaced
>some characters GW is sick of probably die

I love him he's my favorite 40k character.
He represents so many interesting concepts without chaos but is rarely used to show them to it's fullest extent.

Chaos winning and Abaddon winning are 2 different things though.
Chaos wins if the Emperor is killed before humanity evolves into a pure psyker race, as only he is protecting reality from being overtaken by Chaos. If he fails, reality itself is destroyed and replaced by Chaos.
Abaddon believes himself to not be a pawn of Chaos and he desires to overthrow the Emperor, without causing reality to be destroyed. So he can proclaim himself the New Emperor, at the head of the Dark Imperium.

Halfway through reading that I was thinking doom rider.

I'm disappointed.

Guilliman wins... but not before Abbadon convinces him the Imperium is doomed. Rallying his newborn sons, the expansion of the Ultramar empire finally begins.

Abaddon is no Horus

Guilliman wins in a fair fight a fair fight never happens

Everyone is defeated only for The Emperor to return and END Abaddon and finish what he started, having had plenty of time to ponder on his mistakes

God-Emperor tier plot

Didn't girlyman spend an entire day with the emperor in the throne room alone and unsupervised and then came out having his doubts cast aside but also with newfound power?

Pretty sure the body is a shell and gurlyman let the emps into his head.

Then who the hell is powering the Golden Throne?

You saying the emperor is some sort of mook who can't power the golden throne from where ever he wants?

Unless ADB is writing it, in which cause Guilliman will apologise for causing him trouble, shine his shoes and promptly commit suicide out of sheer shame of thinking he could stand in the same room as Abaddon.

No, but i imagine it'd reduce the power he can use if he had to constantly focus a part of it there.

GW literally has no excuse for letting him NEAR The Emperor.

Malcador?

Kinda hard, considering he's a Magos

To be fair, Brunner was one tough cookie.
Don't think he ever got to sic that dragon on that Bretonnian though.

>Would Yvraine be the high priestess in this universe, and Guilliman is saved from Nurgle's despair by her aeldari daughter?
More importantly, who's the Scotsman in the scenario? Ghazghkull?
Normally I'd say Leman Russ, but he's Rowboat's brother and Thraka probably matches the Samurai to Scotsman height ratio after playing bug exterminator over in Octarius for so long, so yeah...

Plus I find the idea of Ghazghkull insulting Guilliman in High Gothic with a Scottish accent funny as hell.

>She gets herself killed as Olanius did to buy time for Robbie
>The Sanguinor comes down and they fuse Joguresu Shinka style
>She is killed again but now as Sanguinus

Looking back, I can see how one would think that. I probably should have said something like DEldar armor pieces instead of skulls. I am sorry for the deception.

>I'm an ultrafag
You can just put OP in the name field next time, we'll know.

>has literally thousands of years combat and leading experience over guilliman

I feel like there's a limit where further experience in combat provides little educational benefit, I mean, what are you really going to pick up in the next 900 years of warfare that you didn't pick up in the first 100? Seen one hellscape battlefield, seen em all.

Another thing is that intelligence plays a role in learning, and even when he wasn't a glove puppet for insane gods, Abaddon wasn't ever a particularly cerebral chap, even by the pretty low standards of Spehs Muhreens. By comparison, Girlyman was always one of the more intelligent and observant Primarchs.