Every smart military adopted enemy equipment if it was superior (for example Romans adopting chainmail or celtic style...

>Lorica segmentata replaced chain mail
bravo.

>hey guys i just noticed the imperium is a bit silly about some things

Even if you ignore all the in-universe reasons and justifications for this, still the simplest answer is logistics. The Imperium is fuckhuge, with several vastly different arms of military and their support. Even in the same group, their technology, support and logistics vary greatly.
Let's take the easiest force to equip, a single chapter of Space Marines. They are already pretty autonomous and don't need much equipment, relatively speaking. Said Chapter starts using Xeno weaponry. This means they have to
>maintain a wholy new weapon platform for which only their chapter has the tools to, which they also have to create
>keep a steady, uninterrupted supply chain with both the Imperium and whichever Xenos they got the weapon from, so either they are now in debt to aliens or have to constantly raid them
>constantly have to check the Xeno technology is actually safe
It's impossible.
Influental members of the Inquisition, AdMech, Rogue Traders and etc. can get away with it, because they are outfiting a small number of men, probably just one anyway, with it and they will never see as much action as the IG or SM and thus can afford to go months without ressuplying said weaponry.

The lasgun is one of the things that actually make sense.

The humble lasgun is a logistic man wet dream.

>Dissing the Flashlight

Ever had an LED shine directly into your eyes? now imagine that times 100 and focused on a small point. Shit has impact, burns, and hurts a fucking lot.

It hurts so much Orks can't feel shit.

It's almost like that's the entire point.

Why not just commit mass suicide?

>How the fuck is the Imperium going to make Gauss weapons

It hurts so much it can burn through 6 inches of concrete to kill an unarmored human on the other side. And requires no separately produced ammo.

>killing a human
>an achievement

a fucking Grot can do that but try using the flashlight against Space Marines

Good luck copying Necron or Eldar technology.

Both posess qualities which IoM don't have such as an actual understanding of technology.
Necron tech is so advanced it looks like magic to the guy who is 80% inorganic firing arc lightning and plasma bolts from his gun.
Eldar tech is similar, Craftworld and Harlequin tech requring a psychic link.

But hey, I guess soem guardsman could pick up a weapon and use it as a club but they already have those.

Chainmail became widespread only when it's production became easier and cheaper. The shift did not happen over a course of a week or even a decade, it took time to make it the better solution.

It's almost like logistics rule supreme when it comes to equipping large armies.

its hard to adopt superior enemy tech when the guys who own and run your industrial base and are the only ones who even know how all that shit works think xeno tech is abhorrent

If the North Koreans were completely equipped with Lasguns and lascannons they would be able to punch through the entire American and South Korean military with ease. Thats how powerful it is, its stupidly strong and really doesnt make any scientific sense but it can blow an arm off with no recoil and theoretically infinite ammo.

The Imperium simply doesnt know how to copy eldar or necron tech and ork tech doesnt technically work for a non ork. They barely understand their own tech, entire planets are specialized to make plasma weapons.

This is simply the best they could do.

>if it was superior
gauss flayer aside, there's no superior alternative to the lasgun

And necron weapons are notoriously difficult to reverse engineer. The ordo xenos is only barely scraping the surface with their phase-weapns.

Well, if you except the navy, airpower, artillery and general long range missile capacity only to focus exclusively on comparatively low intensity infantry and tank engagements...then yes.

This is a setting where technology can be possessed by sapient demon viruses and even your own home-grown gear has to be ritually blessed on the regular because of leftover hellbugs in the software from the Dark Age of Technology, you'd be hesitant to trust foul xeno or cultist guns, too.

>Why not just commit mass suicide?
Because then you get your soul eaten and/or tortured for eternity in the warp by demons. Why, what did you think happened when you died in 40k? Being alive is better than being dead. Your only hope to avoid hell is to serve the Emperor well enough he takes you to his side after death.

Welcome to the worst of all possible worlds.

>really doesnt make any scientific sense but it can blow an arm off with no recoil
This is because the lasgun does not convert chemical energy into kinetic energy.

Instead, it's converting chemical energy into electrical energy which it uses to create light. That light then converts to thermal energy upon being absorbed by the target. The reason they blow off arms is because the laser is super-heating whatever it hits, and in people that means it's going to superheat the water and blood in their bodies which produces a steam explosion.

They'd be incredibly nasty weapons on a modern battlefield. Hampered heavily by rain, folaige, and duststorms though

>Lorica Segmentata replaced chainmail
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew, so you be sayin that every roman was all plate armored and shieeeeeet

only if you are saying that every single gaul wore chain hauberks

Is the Emperor even capable of doing that in his current state?

Suddenly I understand Chaos players. Taking a chance, however small the odds would be to turn in your favor, with pledging servitude to Chaos seems better than just doing nothing and getting your soul eaten.

One could argue that Eldar weaponry is superior against regular humans, but Shuriken weapons have a hard time against power armour, unless you go for higher calibers. Fusion guns are also very much deadly, as they are melta weapons.
But yeah, there's not much one could do against getting his molecules and atoms torn apart.

>But yeah, there's not much one could do against getting his molecules and atoms torn apart.

Power fields and thicker armour. Spread it to all the troops.

The thing is Chaos gods and demons are colosal dicks. You'll have a higher chance to not end like a cumdumpster for some random demon if you follow the Emperor.

Chaos are like hard communist/Capitalist they are way to deluded to see their ideas will always fuck them over hard

The Imperium has access to stuff like the Volkite guns as infantry weapon. It shoots effectively a heat ray that explodes the target and makes the explosion burn the targets friends.
It is also expensive and slow to produce, requires a shitton of maintenance and supplies.
The Imperium has plasma rifles that are more powerful than those of the eldar and tau and those that are mastercrafted (aka, put some effort in) don't explode at all. The tech is there.

The Imperium has countless billions of soldiers. Their bottleneck is production and logistics. The standard Lasgun + Flak Armor of the Imperial Guard is the most cost-effective approach and requires low maintenance you can tech most soldiers in an afternoon. And that's all that matters. A billion guys with Lasguns are more effective than a million of the same guys with bolters. And that's the key point. Why pit your guy with great equipment against the other guy with good equipment if instead you can send 20 guys with average equipment?

theres fluff where the mechanicum is researching a gauss rifle, and according to their machines, the gauss rifle couldnt work, because it would have to have 100% no flaws, and the imperium couldnt replicate that tech

what a shit thread

>One could argue that Eldar weaponry is superior
you could, but shuriken guns don't have functionally infinite ammunition

That's why I didn't list boltguns, or pulse weapons, or splinter guns or indeed any of the more esoteric stuff like volkite. Gauss is great against everything and also never runs out of ammo. Can't beat it.

>Fusion guns
Are something the imperium already has. Fire pikes are unique and an improvement, but they aren't really a widespread thing. Also they're in many cases worse than multi-meltas.

HERESY!

Well, now the immorrtal, self-repairing, unfeeling and unflinching zombie-robot takes half a second more to break your atoms apart.
The thing here is, fluffwise, stuff like Heavy Gausscannons even melt through terminator armour and land raiders like they're nothing. The kind of powerfield and better armour the Imperium would provide to it's expendable guardsmen probably can't stop any gauss weapon in a meaningful way. It's just necron ancient future space wizardry (and admittedly, a lot of powerwanking I guess), they're always described as top-tier in a way that not even Eldar can figure out how their stuff even works.

>You'll have a higher chance to not end like a cumdumpster for some random demon if you follow the Emperor.

Not really. The Emperor doesn't protect the souls of people in the Warp (except in rare situation like Celestine).

Most people just dissolve into the Warp. It's a painful process described as being burned alive to nothingness.

The tech is rapidedly becoming not there. There is only one world left that can make anything bigger than a man portable plasma gun, and it's been under siege from orks for hundreds of years.

You might as well ask the US military to give every soldier a tank if you want every Guardsmen in the Imperium to have a fucking powerfield. Hell, the US might have an easier time between the two of the scenarios.

Doesn't matter how good your gun is if you have no ammunition or spares for it. Good lick fighting the orks with just your bayonet, guardsman.

They do.

Guardsmen are trained to fire at the center of mass. They are also trained to fire as a group.

A Space Marine (vanilla or chaos) has armor that can dissipate the heat from one lasgun. But 10-15 hitting roughly the same point at roughly the same time? Doesn't matter if they're hitting the thickest part of his armor, it's too much to resist.

That is what I meant with higher chance.

Turning to chaos is a sure way to get dick over. Doing nothing or go Emperor is way safer.

What the Emperor can do is less important than what people believe. As long as people believe the Emperor protects and that the Imperium is strong the will continue to fight and work and breed for the hope of a better tomorrow

The CSM codex says that worshippers of the Chaos Gods merge with their Chaos God.

You literally become part of a god. You become a GOD! That's better than dissolving into nothingness.

Same way you become your food after eating it.

This Chaos gods are like cats

Cats are fucking assholes.

The Lorica Hamata (chainmail) was in use by Roman forces before the Lorica Segmentata, during its use and after its use. it was not only older than the Segmentata but actually managed to outlive it. Even in the days of full plate, patches of chainmail would be used to cover up the joints. Chainmail was just THAT good. I wouldn't be surprised if America's military-industrial complex comes up with some kind of full body bulletproof suit that's inspired by chainmail in one way or another.

Nigga your average guardsman doesn't even know how a car works. It's all fucking hoodoo voodoo shot to them. When something breaks one of the squad weirdos has a little prayer session and fingers it then shakes his head so they gotta go and fetch a half-man, half-machine, all-crazy holy man to come and cast his metal healing magics in the name of the God Emperor to get it started again.

And the Imperium likes it that way, because the instant someone unauthorized gets too cozy with an oddly shaped stick he suddenly comes down with a bad case of the bolters.

That's assuming they could even maintain weapons made of the songs of space elves in the first place.

Use y'fuckin head mate.

I'd argue that the ineffably slim chance of becoming a daemon prince is better than the certainty of being annihilated anyway by serving the Emperor.

The thing is that chance does not balance out when you can end as cumdumpster for a demon and not even enjoy it

Shut the fuck up, cats are amazing.

But that might happen anyway, if a daemon takes an interest in your soul as it enters the Warp.

>Your face when Humanity finds a fully functioning STC

The armies close to the Tau should probably have reverse engineered, manufactured, and supplied pills weaponry to the area. That would cover one billionth of the Imperium, though, so it shouldn't be represented in game rules.

Didn't they have them during the great crusade?

They weren't that cool.

God no. If they did than Chaos wouldn't have stood a chance.

The Emperor is literally the only thing preventing Chaos from destroying reality.

To become a Daemon Prince you have to be an extraordinary individual. In a galaxy of untold billions of beings you have to stand out enough to attract the eye and then favour of one of the 4 Chaos gods. If you fuck up, you become a Chaos Spawn. And even if you succeed, you are now a slave to your patron. 99% of your time, which is an arbitrary concept in the Warp anyway, will be spent in the Imatterium fighting against other Chaos forces.

No.

An STC just has the lexicon of pre collapse human technology which easily dwarfs any technology the Imperium has.

For example

>FTL that didn't require the warp
>Guns smaller and lighter than lasguns but stronger than bolters
>Tanks that make the Baneblade look puny

fun fact, the Baneblade was actually a design recovered in a STC. In the old times the Baneblade was classified as a light scout tank.

Which is proof that ancient humanity wasn't really that smart, since the Baneblade is a terrible scout vehicle.

>The Emperor is literally the only thing preventing Chaos from destroying reality.

Nope, GS revealed it to be the Pylons.

which begs the question what was the main battle tank?

Something even more stupidly overengineered? Probably a Schwerer Gustav or something.

If the Emperor's so smart, why can't he figure out what was done a couple thousand years ago?

Titans on treads. Kind like the Lord of Skulls, but even bigger.

>In the old times the Baneblade was classified as a light scout tank.
please stop saying this, it's never been the case

>fun fact, the Baneblade was actually a design recovered in a STC. In the old times the Baneblade was classified as a light scout tank.
That's just a Veeky Forums maymay, same as Leman Russes being converted tractors. There has never been a source for either of those claims.

Nigger what. Please no spoilers because I have yet to read the books, but does it actually contradict >pic related? Because as far as I understood it, the Pylons were a thing related to Cadia and the Eye of Chaos, not a galaxy wide protection again Chaos itself.

>Nigger what. Please no spoilers because I have yet to read the books, but does it actually contradict >pic related? Because as far as I understood it, the Pylons were a thing related to Cadia and the Eye of Chaos, not a galaxy wide protection again Chaos itself.

It might be retconned or the Emperor is working in tandem with the Pylons.

As things stand, the pylon network in the galaxy are the only thing preventing the galaxy from sinking into the Warp and there aren't many of them left which is way the galaxy ended up the way it is. A few more destroyed Pylons and it's over.

Not that I don't believe you, but have you read this yourself or just heard it on Veeky Forums? Because imo Veeky Forums is notorious for telling halftruths that fit their bias more.
Because as far as I understood (haven't read much into Necrons, so idk how accurate it is), the pylons around Cadia were the target of Abaddon in an attempt to allow the Eye of Chaos spread further into the galaxy, ultimately making a path to Terra.
Another fluff pic about the Emperor protecting the galaxy.

This is the Tier list for technological powers. (Does not include doing things through 100% warp-fuckery, but does count some warp-manipulating technologies like D-cannons and warp-drives. Tyranids left out intentionally.)

1: Necrons
- Time manipulation, memory uploading, replicators, teleportation, twisting dimensions in hand-held devices, and their basic troops have a gun that can kill anything and doesn't need reloading. The Necrons are held back by alot of issues, chiefly that their leaders all have some kind of brain damage, but pure power is not one.

2. Best Imperium Tech
- The best mechanicus bullshit is completely ridiculous. As a single example, they halted the Tau third sphere expansion by setting fire to the entire Damocles Gulf nebula. Their issues are that almost none of it can be replicated easily (or sometimes at all), but for shear number of different doomsday-devices none can beat them.

3. Dark Eldar
- A surprise entrant for many, as the Dark Eldar love CC too much to show it off very often. But the Haemonculi have conquered death, and others have demonstrated truly ridiculous abilities: black holes in boxes, extinguished suns, captured suns, turning people to glass, as well as a mastery of dark-matter based technology. The webway provides them with an unmatched strategic and logistical advantage.

4. Craftworld Eldar
- Most of the Eldar advantages are in warp-based powers, but their generic armoury should never be sniffed at. The ability to grow weapons and ammo from nothing using wraithbone is a distinct advantage, and the universality of anti-grav tech provides a strong baseline. Their space-craft are second only to Necrons in being terrifyingly OP, and they're one of only two groups to use hand-held D-cannons.

5. Tau
- The Tau can't blow-up planets, and have absolutely woeful warp-tech, but their speed in adapting to new circumstances is second to none. They are tiny in comparison to the other factions (avoiding the logisitical nightmares the others often worry about), but their ability to quick-build a new high-tech colony puts any other (non-necron) faction to shame. Communism means a plasma gun for everyone.

6. Average Imperium Tech
- The Imperium has a vast range of tech levels, but the average is includes starch-rations that turn the dead into food, tanks that can run on wood, and starships being maintained by peasants. And the occasional plasma weapon over-tuned to kill anything (as well as the firer).

5. Orks
Despite their low posting here, do not underestimate them. Orks meks can build a functioning army from scrap and squigs, and some of their tech (teleportation, tractor-beams, shock-attack guns) is second only to the Necrons. Their stuff may look like walking junk piles but it is incredibly hard to break, and survives exposure to the warp better than any other.

7. Low Imperium Tech
- Many worlds are defended with nothing but regiments armed with Lasguns and chainmail.

Yes, I have read it. Fall of Cadia makes it clear that Pylons are what makes the galaxy existing a thing.

Read the parts with Cawl in them.

sweet nothingness

And now: the problems of adapting their tech:
>Necrons
the stuff mostly disappears with it's users after thye are killed, or whenever they teleport out. Just getting a piece to study that doesn't awaken a tomb world or try to kill the idiot mechanicus is a near impossibility.
>Best imperium Tech
We can't rebuild it... we no longer have the tools to make the tools that made the tools that made this stuff. Maybe with an STC, we get lucky, and can fabricate a knockoff or a 3rd generation copy, but, barring the emperor's return, were never getting back there.
>Dark Eldar
50% chaos, 50% psychic shenanigans, 100% poisonous because of insane hedonism. Also: they prefer CC, and most of their ranged weapons are inherently self-destructive.
>Craftword Eldar
Made out of a psychoactive bone material that may or may not randomly grow impaling spike protrusions while being used. Pass.
>Tau
*pfft* heheheheh noo. no. no.
There are fewer Tau in the whole galaxy than there are imperial citizens on some hive worlds. They might be good for some small-scale engagements, but tau tech is pathetic when it comes to the mass destruction every other faction can pull off.
>Average Imperium Tech
We're here now.
>Orks
Quite a lot of their gear stops working once it's far enough away from the Wauuugh. Those Choppahs which could formerly carve through ceramite are little more than blunt hunks of bolted-together steel.

I would put the Dark Eldar above the best Imperium Stuff. They're just a shadow of what they once were, but they still think stealing suns and mining black holes is pretty much everday stuff.

>The Tau can't blow-up planets

Yes, they can. Farsight blew up Ork worlds during his reclamation effort (source 3th ED Tau codex). Also their Star Burst technology blows up stars.

>There are fewer Tau in the whole galaxy than there are imperial citizens on some hive worlds. They might be good for some small-scale engagements,

What a none point. They being a minority doesn't make their technology any less. In fact, a single Tau city on a sept world can sustain billions of lives living in comfortable conditions. The Tau are incredibly populace and prosperous. In fact number 2, the Tau are considered among the major factions in the setting with both Imperials and Eldar name dropping them as potential allies against the menace of Chaos and the Tyranids.

The Admech had been assaulting Tau worlds for their technological wonders ever since Damocles round 1. The Admech that came to Damocles round 2 were only interested in Tau technology and nothing else. Rail technology, suit technology, energy technology, etc they are all of interest to the Admech who would got out of their way and piss off the Ordos Xenos in their attempts to capture as much Tau tech as they can.

the superior predator.

Dont put answers beyond this point.
Op clearly knows nothing about 40k and this thread is not worth discussing.

>Those Choppahs which could formerly carve through ceramite are little more than blunt hunks of bolted-together steel.
Depends on the choppa. If it's a Chain-choppa, yeah, it's pretty much a fancy-looking club if it's too far from the WAAAAGH!! field.

The standard fuckhuge axe/butcher knife choppas though? Those could still probably carve through ceramite if the wielder is stronger enough. In the hands of a guardsman, a 'knife choppa' is pretty much a claymore, meant for smashing first, cutting second. In the hands of a Space Marine or Ogryn? You'd get similar results to when Orks use them.

>just maille

FTFY

Probably closer to a decade than 10,000 years

Do you have evidence that Romans adopted those things from the enemy, or that they just came to the same conclusions/technology on their own? Or that the change was made during a war.

I mean, the concept of an assault rifle was being worked by several militaries on their own, through their own observations. They just approached it from different directions. The likes of US wanted rifles with automatic fire capability while Germans and Soviets wanted an SMG that fired more potent rounds.

Lasgun is a perfectly potent weapon as a standard infantry firearm, even if it's only S3 on the table. In fluff it can blow off limbs and fist sized chunks from reinforced concrete. It also had penetration equal to a bolter (-1 to armour save).

There's also logistics to consider. You don't go developing a totally new weapon system for the standard soldier in the middle of a war, unless you have a very good reason for it. It's expensive and puts a massive strain on logistics. Adopting systems that complement the existing weaponry is another thing, but what good is a gauss flayer or a pulse rifle per squad, when it's basically just an infantry weapon? You could give that trooper an existing Imperial weapon that's already being made and they already know how to use.

>You don't go developing a totally new weapon system for the standard soldier in the middle of a war, unless you have a very good reason for it.

In the fluff, and in the more detailed roleplayee game implementations, there are literally dozens of versions of the humble lasgun, all with slight adjustments for range or stopping power or rate of fire or reliability or some other such trade off. Nearly all united by their ability to interchange power packs, which means it's still very logistics friendly.

Many of these variant patterns have some patch of fluff that makes an allusion to some specific threat or tactical challenge the pattern was developed to tackle

>FTL that didn't require the warp
sources pls

How much of a problem would it be if a guardsmen picked up a pulse rifle?

Depends if a Commissar can see him. I'd imagine they'd have some kind of user detection but who knows.

Shuriken catapults are better against power armour than any other standard infantry rifle, including bolters

Have you actually read dark eldar lore at all? Their gear is the opposite of everything you just said

As for Tau, they don't have weapons of mass destruction listed because that isn't their bag. Most of their guns are better than Imperial equivalents in just about every way. They just lack the manpower.

Age of Strife actually happened partially due to warp storms blocking travel.
wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Technology

It's an imaginary made up game, there aren't actual military strategists deciding what to do
Just because you seem to be a bit confused, you know