8th army selection is up on warhammer community:

Well they mentioned that you can only use one per phase and they can be used for certain rerolls or making a unit attack out of combat in the fight phase. So there's that. Since we don't have all the rules for any phase until they actually release the book it's the same level as everything else they've released.

>Formations gone
>Flyers are their own unit type
>2 Flyers max in CAD-equivalents
>No Lord of War or Fortification in CAD-equivalents
good

>0 command benefit from Patrol Detachement
what's even the point in respecting the limitations then, might as well play unbound

I wouldn't be surprised if they did something at least close, as a sort of council + bodyguard deal. They'll likely have SOMETHING for caster-heavy teams, won't they?

Alternatively, you could take 4 Patrols to bring 8 HQ and 4 troops? No CP, though. I'd like to see a Command Cadre detachment.

>If your army is built using Formations right now, you’re going to be fine. In their place are a dozen new game-wide Detachments that are available to all factions. These are flexible enough that all of your current forces can be fit into them to form a Battle-forged army.

>all

Idk, the big thing they keep repeating is that if you can use it now, you can use it in 8th. It was a big thing for models getting rules, including forgeworld, and they seem adamant about not making anyone's army unfieldable by rules. Keep hope, brother, except for pink horror spam but I wouldn't be able to field that without feeling like I'm scat bike spamming.

They've stated that ALL armies must be battle-forged. Unbound isn't a thing anymore.

We can now see that this was likely so they could do exactly this, have the baseline power level be low so they can build up from there without worrying about having to immediately balance against people just taking whatever they want.

do Flyrants count as flyers or HQ?

The use of terms like brigade and battalion triggers me. There should be FAR more soldiers slots if you were truly use something like a battalion or, gods help us, a brigade.

Yeah, I don't really care about the summoning spam - don't even care if my army gets nerfed into the ground. I just want to be able to actually play it.

> I take it that flyers wont be playing a huge role in 8th?

Good.

Did they just poop all over my dreadmob?

They have open play as an out. Nothing is forbidden in open play. No matter what you're using now it will be legal in open play. You'll note that they NEVER promised that everything would be usable in matched play.

There will probably be a chart focused on heavy support and fast attack respectively. Im calling it.

>might as well play unbound
I do that anyways lol, do these changes affect me at all?

We might get a big-guns detachment for things like that.

Could be ether

Wonder if valkyries will still be squadrons of 1-3

Hopefully things like that will be in the codex equivalent. For example Ahriman's Exiles is a single HQ choice in the thousand sons book

And that's a big focus, they're trying to make damn sure they don't make someone's dudes illegal. The new psychic rules should be nice, it means that all your other sorcerers won't be warp charge points for someone else, everyone gets to magic.

Are you saying there should be a bonus to a detachment that lets you take two fliers and two heavy support while only requiring one hq and one troop? The core concept to command points is that you get more of them if you don't try to make cheesy lists with a bunch of smaller, more flexible detachment. The closer you get to looking like an unbound army the less points you get to spend in the game.

My prediction is that we may get more "specialist" detachments, IE a bunch of one type of unit with a little bit of token HQ/Troop tax at most, but that such detachments will get few if any command points. So you'll be able to run them, but they'd be better as part of a larger army where they'd be part of a more well-rounded force.

>BATTLE-FORGED ARMY
Read that again, user, because they did.

And dang, I might need to get more troops to be able to play a Brigade.

Also interesting that Elites are given more slots than FA/HS in the latter two FOCs, whereas in our typical CAD they're treated equally.

Flyer squadrons will still probably be a thing so it could be possible to have 6 flyers in 2 slots

>we have 14 generic FOCs for everyone to even the playing field!
>until the first Codex releases and factions get unique FOCs of varrying power levels between their equivalents!

Unbound is just called open play now.

Surely AdMech is getting more HQ alternatives, right? Forming a Battallion and only having Tech-Priests, Enginseers and Cawl is prety limited.
Not that Priests aren't fucking amazing HQ choices, but still.

From previous rumors:
>The Rules: Containing your prophesized 12 pages of core rules, plus outlines for open play and the 14 universal FoC, ranging from 1 HQ and 1 Troop choice 1 command point allies to massive 20+ slot charts that grants a fist full of command. The new force org charts are pitched as a great way customize your army, one of them is a big guns esqu 1 troop/HQ 5+ Heavy support, but really they’re just designed to scale command points to game size.

bloodofkittens.com/blog/2017/04/26/warhammer-40k-8th-edition-leak-compilation/

>Are you saying there should be a bonus to a detachment that lets you take two fliers and two heavy support while only requiring one hq and one troop?
as you take 1HQ+1Troop tax (vs. playing unbound where you can do the same shit without paying this tax): yes, I do. Even if it's symbolic, like a single command point.

Curious to see if Command Points will be used to buy 'charges' for the bonus you want before the game begins and will effectively be part of your army list or if you have all bonuses available and buy whatever you currently need mid-game.

You could previously play Unbound vs Battle Forged. You don't play Open vs Matched, they use fundamentally different rules. The points is that you either are or are not running a game with FOC limitations.

I can see playing patrols to learn the game, having too many units on the field while trying to learn all the new rules can lead to messing up. My group also plays aos so most of these rules and tactics arent new to us but for someone that has never played either game its easier to start small

Same boat.

>gorkanauts are garbage, should have been lords of war, still run formation because robots.
>hope 8th makes them better
>8th rolls around, forces mandatory troops on you as tax that will just die, gorks upgraded to bad LoW choice, now cant run list at all.

Fuck that.

I wonder if we're allowed to stack FOCs. I wouldn't be surprised if we got some Imperial Command bonus that needs 3 Patrols from different factions and gives you some very powerful special ability.

AdM will have the Imperium Faction, which means they can take any HQ using the Imperium keyword.

>get Assault FOC with some kind of charge range or melee attack re-roll
>it uses HQ + 3+ FA units
>Black Templars can't use the Assault bonus for Crusader squads and need to run Assault Squads
I can already see it coming.

Mork/Gorkanauts aren't LoW.

They absolutely won't. If Blood Angels are even their own entire faction still, while just being a different flavor of Space Marine, then AdMech will not be part of Imperium, nor will Imperium be a secondary faction between a bunch of imperial armies.

Imperium will most likely include the "Imperial Agents" roster minus Grey Knights and SoB.

Could you try to rephrase what your point is? You can do anything in unbound. Battle-forged is about balance, so why would they give you token shit for the smallest thing?

If you're playing unbound no one gets command points for their detachments because they don't have any, the tax is so that you don't bring fully random shit and still have some rules to follow. You don't add symbolic shit to game balance, that's just dumb.

Unless you have some point that you haven't managed to convey.

You realize that at most you've seen 1/4 of the detachments available at launch, right?

Hopefully they avoid such bullshit like faction specific force org, that would pretty much be formations which they say are gone.

They are definitely adding those. Giving unique FOCs to the factions is one of the msin things to add in the Codices.

The whole point of Imperial Agents was to allow you to attach them to other Imperium armies. They won't go back on that now.

1 or maybe 2 troops/hq does not seem like a particularly onerous tax.

For all we know taking a Mech Boy HQ will let you grab some type of dread as a troop or elite

Still true. Note that they said that some open armies may still use the new detachments, and thus get command points. It just happens under the purview of open play rather than matched play. This duplicates the kind of friendly unbound vs. battle forged games that happened in 7th.

You say that, but lots of thematic builds are weakened by troop tax being a thing.

"My army is the Ravenwing, a horde of speedy black and white fuckers leading blistering lightning strikes! Also these five green dudes who somehow managed to keep up with them."

"This is the destroyer cult of Amechotep, and also 10 random warriors who are there because I dunno."

"My stealth and ambush infiltration force consists of 40 stealth suits, 3 Ghostkeels, 6 remora drones, a Y'vahra, 10 sniper drones and 20 pathfinders. Also for some reason a cadre Fireblade and some strikers because the FOC said I had to have troops and an HQ."

It's really neat to lose free formation benefits, but the list building flexibility was really nice.

There's a "1 HQ/Troop, 5+ HS" detachment. They don't even need that.

Ravenwing are almost always the ones who are accompanying the rest of the regular companies.

Sounds like you were part of the problem.

Here's hoping basic troops are actually useful and not just a command point tax.

>the list building flexibility was really nice.
If they decided to give you what you wanted in some white dwarf or whatever. As DE it was basically Realspace Raiders or bust.

Look it's a codex wiping edition change. I don't think some minor adjustments to hyper specialized armies are too much an ask.

Literally the best thing I've heard about 8th so far.

>"My stealth and ambush infiltration force consists of 40 stealth suits, 3 Ghostkeels, 6 remora drones, a Y'vahra, 10 sniper drones and 20 pathfinders. Also for some reason a cadre Fireblade and some strikers because the FOC said I had to have troops and an HQ."

If you want people to sympathize with your point don't bring up a player using 3 Ghostkeels and a Yvahra.

I don't think they promised that you could use all your models with zero army composition changes.

>Is my army still valid?
I.e. your faction is not squatted.

>Can I still use all my models?
I.e. all models are still supported with rules.

I suspect you will be able to mix and match your Imperial units in on army. Other keywords they do not share will prevent their special rules from mixing well, though. They've specifically mentioned this kind of thing.

And just like that, renegades and heretics was destroyed. Im sad bros

>If you want people to sympathize with your point don't bring up a player using 3 Ghostkeels and a Yvahra.

In an edition where the vehicle/monstrous creature gap has been closed and weapons can do multi-wounds? Where big things degrade in quality as they're wounded?

I don't see the problem. This hypothetical four tau monstrous creature player is likely to be much easier to deal with now.

Rolled 42, 94 = 136 (2d100)

The factions are called out on Warhammer40000.com

For example: Blood Angels have their own entry, Skitarii do not.

Gotta admit you have a point, still gonna hate them for that first turn or two before they start taking wounds though.

yeah I'd say we are. Theybtalking anojt matched play having some optional rules to limit the number of detatchments.
so i assume default is many/unlimited detatchments stillm

If purity of fluff and narrative is your primary concern then open and narrative play are a thing. Battle Forged is primarily for matched play and the competitive side.

I guess I understand what you're saying and I agree that is a feel bad for some current players. But I think the upside of not being tied to old formations, even in a little way, for the competitive portion of the game is worth the downsides you're mentioning.

How so?

There will probably detachment that is like 1 HQ up to 10 troops, so don't despair too hard user.

thank god.

They've said that Skitarii still exist as their own faction, they are just not on the site because it's just lore for the masses and they fit under AdM.

With the extra troops tax we are getting, I'm hoping that more units get moved to troops. Bring back BA assault squuad spam!

If true that's incredibly stupid.

This, fuck the codex astartes, I want my army of jump packers back

What are you on about mate? Forgeworld has said they'll put out rules.

the warhammer40000 site is narative focused, nothing to do with rules.

>If purity of fluff and narrative is your primary concern then open and narrative play are a thing

We both know that isn't the case. The number of people using unbound in 7th or open/narrative in AoS is beyond microscopic.

And honestly for good reason, even with broken shit everywhere throwing out the least pretence at balance still makes things worse.

My nigger, Devestators and Assault marines should be troops alongside Tacs

Star Phantoms represent

Blood Angels will have Imperium, Space Marine and Blood Angel keywords.

Ad Mech will have Ad Mech And Imperium, likely also Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus keywords.

Hopefully both
>May purchase Wings, which makes your Hive Tyrant take up both an HQ and a Flier slot. May not purchase without an open Flier slot.

AOSers, aren't "mixed" units in AOS count as both (a hero on a dragon would count as both a Lord and a Monster in terms of Org Chart)

No I'm saying it's incredibly stupid to not finally integrate them, not stupid that the site doesn't match it.

For pickup games yes. Point still stands. That's a fluff argument directed at a competitive play mode.

Hopefully they do it soon. And maybe fix some of the shit wrong with them. Dont you want to see him smile user?

Wont be as good. On the brightside they might make a detachment with 8+ heavy supports and I can finally field my renegade tank battalion

the'll be integrated in that all imperial stuff can be taken together.
You'll be able to build a mixed army and (for now at least) they'll all be in a single book.

Your whole force will be usable not your current allocations. You might have to move around some units under new commanders or add a second or third HQ to squeeze everyone in or add more Troops.

Rules for all available models will be released on launch, that was confirmed a while back. Fielding the armies you already had as battle-forged confirmed today.

What are you on about?

Fw rules might take some time i feel

Let's be honest, Thousand Sons are far more likely to get better than worse. They're so close to the bottom right now (ignoring Magnus shenanigans) that it's just more likely.

I don't, they're all supposed to be in the book that comes out on launch, in the Q&A everything available at launch is something they were adamant about.

That looks really good. It makes it very hard to min-max because you have to take a certain number of HQs and troops, but unlike the Decurion-style formations it doesn't make it really awkward to use the units you want.

The fact that all of their psychers are all gonna be able to cast every turn will give them a pretty good bump I think.

I'm so looking forward to seeing actual psyker-heavy armies again, ones that aren't all just a deathstar-battery. Grey Knights, Tyranids, Thousand Sons and Tzeentch Daemons, Craftworlds, lobbing waves of unreality at each other.

>play csm
>pretty much all formations are shit tier if you are not DG

I won't shed a tear when every army has to choose from the same army formation list

Some units might get different unit types. What was once an hq might become an elite or something.

Yeah. But I don't know what do I'll do with all these extra exalted sorcerers.

Guess we'll need to wait and see the other detachments. Maybe there will be a 'retinue' one or perhaps Thousand Sons will get to count three sorcerers as one HQ slot like some things used to.

KSons may get a "Seer Council" style unit as an HQ choice like Eldar did in older editions.

Yes, that is correct. Great eye my dude.