Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Damn straight, load them up with flamers in addition to melta bombs. They're twin-linked, which means they re-roll to wound, which is useful against marines and hilariously good against Xenoforms of life. In addition, you retain the ability to meltabomb shit. All in all, a highly effective but dangerously close-ranged unit. Excellent choice for 30K on a budget, you can convert the dudes and convert the bikes to look good, especially if you get a good deal on eBay/FLGS - I've got a fuckugly pile of 12 I'll be converting into jetbikes/hoverbikes, and use biker/outrider stats for.

What's the onomatopeia for lascannons, now that CHOOM was taken by volkite?
Because BS5 Tank Hunters -1 to cover is nice. You get what you pay for...and you're getting a lot. An user said he blew up a Knight before it could reach his line, that they were expensive but could make up their points back in a few turns.

What I'm hearing is, buy more than one unit for redundancy, and plan accordingly. I'm going to run MSU and fill my heavy support slots with them, the only problem is instamoulding enough heavy bolters/lascannon barrels. 30K on a budget is always fun, but it can be incredibly time consuming.

A sort of humming noise as the cannon is charging/loaded, followed by a deafening *CRACK*ing noise when fired.

I've always liked the idea of them as a powerfist delivery unit for punchin' tanks, when I can't think where else to put a centurion because all the rhinos are full.
>centurion with powerfist on bike
>sergeant with powerfist on bike
>marine with power maul on bike
>marine on bike (designated bullet sponge)
Never actually tried it though, mainly because it would need 4 bikes when forgeworld sells them in 3s.

It's hard to see how BA won't get sanguinary guard, seeing as they get mentioned in the fluff all the fucking time. Here's hoping FW do decent models for them. Other than that, I can see them getting some terminators as a space hulk shoutout.

My only relevant prediction for White Scars is that we'll get Targutai Yesugei as a special character as well. And/or possibly Qing Xa, but Targutai is an altogether better option, since there's only 1 other loyalist pysker right now.

is FREEM! taken?

OMG the Dodekatheon plays warhammer with D10s and the Trierarchs really have applied Nuln Oil to their armours

Primarch archetypes:

Lion: Knight
Fulgrim: Artist
Perturabo: Logistician
Khan: Hunter
Russ: Warrior
Dorn: Soldier
Curze: Vigilante
Sanguinius: Angel
Ferrus: Engineer
Angron: Gladiator
Gulliman: Administrator
Mortarion: dunno
Magnus: Sorcerer
Horus: Leader
Lorgar: Demagogue
Vulkan: Blacksmith
Corax: Partisan
AlphariusOmegon: Spy

Honestly without a different source of psykers short of Daemon allies, it wouldn't do them much good. Looks like the vast majority of their dice goes to Lorgar or Zardu Layak, because you'll only have six tops. That's enough for a couple one or two dice buffs and one big spell channeling Psychic Maelstrom or Summoning or something, which is a nice buff, but given 1KSons get ML3 leaders, ML1 troops and ML2 Termies, plus immunity to perils and 3+ casting, possibly asking a few less points for Dark Channeling and Burning Lore might be nice, plus tossing Artificer Armour and a little point cut on the Ashen Circle and making the Mhara Ghal better or way less expensive.They're not too bad as they come, they've just been power-creeped out of existence save Tzeench allies cheese, and fucking Militia and Cults does that better with no real tax for allies and just as many psykers, plus cheap as chips mini Daemonettes with true Fearless and hordes, and shooty armoured support.

Dear god, no wonder so many people play Iron Warriors, they're actual Iron Warriors posting on tg.

FREEM, of course. Old news.

Hello, everybody. I have stopped by to inform you that the Emperor's Children's arts and crafts department is now open for business.

Perturbo should probably be Architect.

They really are getting creative with their work. I think Fulgrim himself made this.

Mortarion is farmer.

I think

White Scars:
Keshig
Some special bikers/jet bikers
Qin Xa
Targutai

Blood Angels:
Sanguinary Guard with Azkaellon
Lamentii Terminators
Azkaellon
Raldoron

Dark Angels:
Death Wing Terminators
Black knights (not necessarily on bikes)
Corswain
Alajos

Definitely, given how Burning Lore costs 30pts and regular Mastery levels cost 25. So, the path they should follow is a more army-support oriented one instead of upgrading what they have? For example Diabolists being able to get up to ML2 and people who have Burning lore becoming daemons?
Perhaps they should add extra dice for each unit with the Daemon rule.

Give that thing rules.

Here's what I got for it so far.
>Ring made out of Eldar embryo
>gives fear to the model wearing it

Is it odd that I'm finding the embryo one (after a quick google) kind of the least creepy of these?

You get a lot of "spares" from IVF (success rates aren't great), and there's not too many options, assuming you're not going to make every single one an attempt at a kid - you've got putting them up for adoption or science, destroying them, or, if you can't stomach those, just paying freezer fees forever.

Just no-one tell Fabulous Bill

And like that you managed to make me laugh at something so terrible. Have a picture of Saint Sava.

Yeah, that works well. Although probably also make their mandatory chaplain better, since the WB aren't exactly wanting for morale or sources of Fear. The baseline isn't bad, they just need to be cheaper and better. Price cuts, Artificer Armour Ashen Circle, buffs to daemonology casting and a decent RoW would go a long way. Maybe something that allows you to take Heralds and Troop daemons in your primary, and have them deepstrike in from reserves? Just so every Daemon you take doesn't have to be allies or a token Summoning.

Guthix be praised someone talking about not-fetus-jewelry

Has BL made any new books lately? Any new models released?

>guthix

Get out cuckfag, this is a saradomin-only board

>>Possible Glaive nerfs

I think artificer armor ashen circle would be a bit much. They would be totally transformed for me with the option to replace hand flamers with volkite serpentas and the option to take full flamers or melta guns for 1 in 5. St5 Volkite serpentas + st5 hammer of wrath + ws5 st5 attacks with their axe-rakes = a fuck ton of st 5 attacks.

Ashen Circle are priced like the formerly overexpensive Assault squads, and their UM counterpart has artificer and power weapons, so either the Ashen get better gubbins or a massive price reduction.
And become available to loyalists :^)

I know now I want to see an IW objective marker that's a strategy/wargaming table.

Is it a battlemap that the Siege Master or Master of Signals (or Warsmith, but they don't really benefit) and his HW unit are objective camping, or is it games table?

I mean, I like the idea of strategy tables as an objective anyway - like pic related - but the fact that it might just be an IW game table is extra fun

Dark Angels
>Cataphractii squad that leans shooty
>Knightly infantry squad with Artificer armor and sword/shield
>Ravenwing Knights with corvus hammers and ability to take plasma repeaters and/or grenade launchers
>Terranic Greatswords get rending

Well the guys there were arguing on how to predict movement for the Hrud pieces on the map, so they could make a strategy against them.
It's silly of how little use Siege Masters can be to IWs, as their dedicated shooty squads already have either Tank Hunters or the very situational Wrecker. A MoS may look silly among termies, so joining a Tac Support squad seems more feasible.
A Warsmith could camp in the back lines, since they can have Battlesmith + Servo arm to fix artillery, but I can't really think of any use for their Cortex controllers. I don't think there's any IW list that has Cortex controllers, besides Praevians.

>>Knightly infantry squad with Artificer armor and sword/shield
Tactical squads may exchange their bolt pistols for combat shields
I'm not sure if their Tacticals and Assault marines should be able to swap their chainswords for power swords for 5pts, since that would legitimize the SW cheap power weapon despoiler's shittery.

I asked in the previous thread to no response: if I converted it with an appropriate nozzle, do you think I could use plasma guns to make volkite culverins/chargers?

>Tactical squads may exchange their bolt pistols for combat shields
Because we need even less reason for people to take Breachers.

I did consider breachers for a second. Then I thought to myself
>"Ah, fuck'em :^)"
Breachers are a failed squad, fit only for ZM. At best. Only UM power breachers and maaaaybe IFs are decent. IHs are merely stuck with them.

I don't see why not, so long as it's noticeable, or at least pointed out to your opponent. I did something similar with Blasters for my Dark Eldar, and I never heard anyone criticize.

Fagadomin can't compete. Guthix is love, Guthix is life.

No. when someone tells you that a unit is good but probably over expensive that doesn't mean buy two of them. The only way I would recommend running a squad with lacannoms is as a small squad withina bastion/other fortification so you can give them ammo reserves and protect them. Especially if you are bringing Kyr Vhalen since he can buff the AV.

Lascannon havocs are awesome
For their ability to delete something but will almost be a guaranteed first target for your enemy as the other user said. If you want to bring lascannon havocs I recommend either build a list around protecting them like above or try sprinkling some in a squad (iron havocs do not all have to take the same gun. I really like having 2-3 lascannons in my full missile squad. They either overkill a target or greatly increase the odds of penning AV).

Thats what I wad thinking. Both have a row of coils, and aside from being slightly boxier as a whole, volkites just have a rectangular nozzle in contrast to the rounded plasma head. What I'd use I'm still thinking about, but I'd rather try converting first before dishing out for FW shipping.

Interesting idea, the only problem is that I hate how SM missile launchers look. Maybe I'll convert some?

For now though, I'm happy with bending over for 3 minimum units with lascannons just because they look great and help my list deal with armour/MC.

I wouldn't notice.

Eh, the IH ones are the best for Breachers. The only problem I have is that they don't 'do' anything well, which is the issue with Breachers as a whole

Yeah, I guess you could put a Siege Master with laser/graviton rapiers?

IW can't get the artillery robots, I bet that makes them sad

You'd think a massive shield would do more for your survivability than having a medic nearby.

Same guy who's been talking about IW Havocs and flamer-bikes. Fluffy, not-at-all superduper competitive list for Iron Warriors used to probe enemy defences and capitalize on weaknesses:

HQ:
Legion Centurion, volkite charger, artificer armour
- 70 points
Legion Centurion, Praevian Consul, 2x Castellax Battle-Automata with Darkfire Cannon, boltgun on Consul
- 337 points
Elites:
Legion Terminator Squad, 10x Cataphractii Terminators, lightning claw on Sergeant, 2x Terminators w. heavy flamer & single lightning claw, 7x pairs of lightning claws
- 465 points
Apothecarion Detachment, 2x Apothecary
- 90 points
Troops:
Legion Tactical Squad, 20x Legionnaires
- 225 points
Legion Tactical Squad, 20x Legionnaires
- 225 points
Legion Tactical Support Squad, 5x plasma gun
- 175 points
Legion Tactical Support Squad, 5x melta gun
- 175 points
Fast Attack:
Legion Outrider Squad, 3x bikers, melta bombs, 3x twin-linked flamers
- 150 points
Legion Outrider Squad, 3x bikers, melta bombs, 3x twin-linked flamers
- 150 points
Legion Outrider Squad, 3x bikers, melta bombs, 3x twin-linked flamers
- 150 points
Heavy Support:
Iron Havoc Support Squad, 5x lascannon
- 260 points
Iron Havoc Support Squad, 5x lascannon
- 260 points
Iron Havoc Support Squad, 5x lascannon
- 260 points
2992 points total. Haven't got everything yet and in the future I'll be adding recon dudes, a vigilator and a chaplain to really grind that WW1-raiding-the-enemy feel. The lack of artillery is because I just dislike having artillery on the field, I might get some vindicators in the future though as line-breakers.

>Calth
>Have one job: Destroy the Ultramarine's capability to reinforce the Loyalists and capture their fuckheug fleet for the Warmaster
>Fail to destroy the Ultramarines muster
>Fail to capture the Ultramarine's fleet
>Lose the bulk of your fleet assets
>Have to abandon a big chunk of your legion on the surface and lose them too
>Fail to assassinate or corrupt Guilliman, despite disobeying your own god's instructions and attempting it. Twice.
>Theatre commander gets his primary heart ripped out

This is what the XVIIth considers a ""success""?

>because they look great
Doing it right.

But, to put another idea out there, one of the advantages of havocs is you can mix weapons within the unit, so you can have some cheap ("cheap") missile launcher or autocannon dudes to act as ablative wounds for the lascannon dudes, while still helping out by occasionally pinging off a hullpoint.

I've been saving and was going to by my first tactical squad soon, but now I'm wondering how 40k transfering to 8th ed, which looks like a big change, is going to effect 30k and whether I'd be better off waiting rather than shelling out £90 straight away.

Has there been any official word on this? All I can find is a bunch of rumour and conjecture.

If your tactical squad is built with all bolters you can use it in both systems tho? Minus Mark 7-8 fuckery (unless individual bits/sets explained as artificer/experimental armour or armour from some remote forge world).

Basically, all problems solve themselves if you're willing to get creative with modelling and forge the narrative.

>I guess you could put a Siege Master with laser/graviton rapiers?
Many think of this, but Art of Destruction affects only Heavy weapons wielded by infantry models, not Ordnance carried by Artillery.

Wow, that's a lot of firepower. Could be interesting! Target priority will be a tough thing for the other player to decide.

Attack bikes can take heavy flamers, right? They might be worth a look, mostly because they get 2W.

late for dick sucking faggot sucky men and their ass fucking two wounds of shitsftain fame

I see your point, but for removing heavy threats lascannons are efficient enough to win out over missile launchers and autocannons, just as heavy bolters are better at hunting infantry than the two middling weapons. Focused units are key here, so that they can win back their points and create something of a buffert zone for you to stuff full of fluffy/attractive units and models with disappointing or inefficient rules. At least, that's how I try to build by lists, regardless of size. Bonus points if your efficient guys are also fluffy in their turn.

you forgot

losing the following war against ultramar only to leave and lose again at terra

The only official word has been that 30k isn't switching to 8th edition immediately. That could mean a switchover in six months, two years, or never. We don't know.

I'd hesitate to buy the red books because they're just rules. But go ahead any buy anything else. Even without an edition change, the game occasionally gets rebalanced so there's always a risk that you buy something and it becomes uncompetitive later. You will always have a use for bolter dudes so go ahead and buy them.

But do ask yourself if you aren't better off with a Betrayal at Calth or Burning of Prospero box. I personally think the FW tactical marine sets give you way more upgrade parts than you really need. Tell us what you intend to build and we'll try to help.

Hard to say, though today's reveal suggests spamming fliers may not be good future-proofing, but I assume as IW you weren't going to do that anyway.

I guess one thing might be to magnetise your sergeants in case the meta shifts over what's best there. I have a sneaky suspicion that the humble power sword may make a bit of a comeback, but we'll see.

Didn't they destroy something like 80% of the UM muster? Or was it more like 60%.

It definitely wasn't better than a phyrric victory.

Roughly 50% of the UM, WB losses seem to have been somewhere in the region of 30%. Ok, but not fanastic given they had total surprise and the loyalists were ordered not to return fire for the first part of the battle.

Half of the UMs died, lots of worlds destroyed, lots of wounded, crippled the mortal armies defending the worlds, but in the end they held.
Still, Lorgar only needed to throw a stone towards Guilliman's ship and cast the Ruinstorm to keep the UMs away from Terra.
Thus Lorgar completed his mission, and anything else was a bonus. And then Terra didn't fall as fast as required and Horus got himself killed by Emps, but he managed to mortally wound Him so chaos daemons won forever, while the traitors lost, the Imperium sort of tied, the Mechanicum lost as well and nobody rushed the Tau town center so they advanced age.

Reminder that the Word Bearers who took part in Calth were literally too retarded to be trusted with anything else at all in the heresy

I was just going to suggest that: If you just buy BaC or BoP you can "guard" against edition changes by choosing to assemble your tacticals as 3x10 bolter squads. You can then deploy them as 2x15 marines (expecially if you make one of the sergeants a baldy or differentiate him some other way - it'll be fairly clear he's the sarge when he's leading his own squad, and equally clear he's just a slightly different legionnaire when he's part of a combined unit) or 3x10 guys (for the Legion-specific RoW). You'll get some terminators, two HQ choices and either an ugly-ass contemptor even I, the magnificent user, failed to make suck less or some really sweet Sisters of Silence and Custodes. Some people say that the BoP HQs are difficult to convert, but I didn't have any problems making a guy from Geigor (pic related). Just cut/scratch off the SW parts of the legs, smooth out the inconsistencies with some watered-down liquid greenstuff, and use bits to taste. I used a slightly modified Mk IV torso from BaC, a BoP Mk III helm, some CSM shoulder pads+back pack, and a plume from a CSM chainsword on the backpack and knife (because why not?). The arms are separate in the kit so it isn't at all hard to slap on other weapons. If you want you can even cut off the knife blade and stick something else there - I can see how he'd make a really cool lightning claw/power fist sergeant for assault marines (or units with jumppacks).

Ok I really need help with something here.

If sisters of silence need to take an HQ for every three units, how the fuck do you run a full army of them without breaching the AoD FOC?

Isn't it a rule that the specifics of each force/army list supersede the general rules? If so, Sisters of Silence would have as many HQ:s as they need, probably capping at 1 HQ per 3 units you buy.

Like, if you bought 11 SoS units, you'd buy 3 HQs, if you bought 12, you'd buy 4. That's my interpretation anyway, Forge World haven't released a FAQ?

I heard that someone found out through a friend that his second cousin's wife's sister's friend asked Alan Bligh at the Weekender and he said that you could max out your FoC slots as long as you had three HQs.

But if you max out your squads and transports, you can hit 3000 points with 3 HQs and 9 non-HQ squads. It may be difficult to reach 3500, but I'm punching numbers into my calculator and getting at least 3100 with a Centura, two of those HQ sisters squads, 3 elite squads, 3 troops, 2 of the beast squads, and the HS squad, all with lots of options and acquisitors.

>t. adb

You'd need 4 HQs for 11 non-HQ SoS units

>chaos daemons won forever

I didn't know ADB posted here!

I don't think you can with them. I think if you want to max out FoC you need Cuckstodes.

>carnac
>ADB
Pick both.

I'm not so sure. Do you need to take a HQ for every three units, or can you buy three units for each HQ?

Depending on the wording (don't have the scan on my laptop) you should be able to have 3 HQs for 11 units, because every third unit bought forces the HQ tax. 3 units, then HQ. 6 units, 2 HQ. 9 units, 3 HQ. And then two more, before you trigger the tax. By this interpretation, you could get 1-2 "free" units of SoS in a Talons army dominated by Custodes.

The other way of interpreting the rule is that every HQ bought "frees" 3 slots of SoS units, and while that is arguably how they should be interpreted (makes more sense to force a minimum of 1 HQ for any SoS units, from what I remember of the general wording of the SoS rules), I honestly wouldn't push too hard one way or the other. Except, of course, if I brought 11 units with 3 HQ lol

>Cadre Structure: In order to field any units with the Company-Cadre special rule using the Talons of the Emperor army list, at least one HQ unit with this special rule must be part of the Detachment for every three non-HQunits with the Company-Cadre special rule in the same Detachment. For example, one HQ with Company-Cadre is required to field up to three other units, two HQs to field between four and six units, and so on.

Let's don't trigger his autism. Have an old political cartoon.

It's not something I like either, but until Cawl collected the Void Dragonballs and wished Guilliman back to life that was the case. Only the Emperor could make the Imperial Webway a reality and He's gone.
As in, throw a stone, cut the telegraph cords to Terra and Guilliman will assume the Emperor is dead within the hour, guaranteed.

>Void Dragonballs
Kek.

Underrated reminder

>Not Krilliman
Dammit I missed it.

Yeah, I'm just saying that 9 non-HQ SoS units plus the requisite HQs is enough for 3,000+ points.

Beyond that, SoS may be as illegal as Space Wolves.

It's alright.

Iron hand breachers, especially immortals with volkite, are amazing at crushing non meqs in shooting. Solar auxilia, mechanicum, militia/cults. They're also a tough objective holder. Other than that they're meh.

They're not even melta-bomb delivery systems, since you can only use 1 bomb per unit.

Thanks for the replies, sounds like I'll be pretty future-proof if I'm mainly getting tac squads to start with, which was my plan.

I'd looked at the boxed sets, they're definately better in terms of mode/money ratio, but the Iron Warriors conversion sets are a big part of the appeal to me, pic related was kind of the first thing from 30k I saw/read and inspired me. The idea of Astartes being rushed into deployments and treated more like 'poor bloody infantry' than epic heroes appeals to me, I also found Perturabo replacing his honorguard with robots pretty funny.

I'd prefer to slowly build an army that looks exactly how I want it, rather than go with the more sensible option and build one quickly. Muh autism I guess.

Fair enough: 4 HQs for 12 units it is. Thanks for posting the rules instead of freaking out, the response you can expect is difficult to gauge sometimes.

Here is another thing: White Scars fielding lots of Cataphractii, heavy tanks/artillery and dreadnoughts. Last time I saw the subject raised it was by a guy asking if WS dreadnoughts were fluffy, and I'd argue they could be, depending on the situation, fluff you invent and at which point in time the list is supposed to hail from. Pre-Jaghatai, the White Scars were (much like pre-Corax Raven Guard) basically Luna Wolves light, right? The term "Heavy, crushing and sustained assault" comes to mind, though I think I'm mashing two or three sentences together.

These early Scars haven't adopted the Khan's modus operandi and like to stay and fight, meaning they'd have a different appreciation/need for terminators, breachers, heavy tanks and transports etc, and they wouldn't see anything wrong with it either. Actually, given that they weren't ever a very large Legion it might make little sense for them to maintain their own train of dedicated artillery, but I'd argue the rest holds true.

In other words, the reason post-Jaghatai WS don't use these less mobile tactics isn't because they can't, it's because they won't.

Specifically, about their dreads:
The size of the WS is, as far as I know, not know when the Heresy breaks out, but I think I remember someone say it was about 7 000 of them. Let's assume that their numbers are larger than ever, what with having a Primarch supply fresh geneseed and taking less losses with their fluid tactics. Compared to the pre-Primarch Legion, they mmmight recover losses slower, if they only recruit from one world (did they? Or was it just the DG who recruited from a single world?) with a population lower than Terra and probably whatever other worlds they recruited from in the early Crusade. Let's say maybe 200 marines got turned into dreadnoughts before Jaghatai was recovered, and a few more after that before the practise lost favour. A number of these would have died before they found their Primarch, and finding him cut of the supply, as it were. The number keeps shrinking as they take losses. By the time the Heresy kicks off, almost none remain, and what with so few people outside of the Legion having any understanding of the Scars, the misconception that they don't have dreads spreads.

Aah I dunno man, I think that there could be other ways to squeeze them in if you wanted to. I just really dislike people saying "this faction never never ever field this". They could, they're a Legion for goodness sake.

Thoughts on heretical narrative-forging?

>if WS dreadnoughts were fluffy
Only if they're riding those new Custodes vehicles.

I don't know if this has been nerfed, but their rules say "The entire squad may take melta bombs" for 5 points per model

Well it was nerfed, since squads can only use a single meltabomb per turn. Now they're just tactical support squads on bikes, and that's expensive.

Yes, they may take them for the entire squad, but current 40k rulebook FAQ (same rules 30k uses) says that only one model per unit can use grenades (inc. melta-bombs) in any phase. So pay all you want for those bombs, you're only getting to use one in the assault phase.

Good thing I modeled my Outriders with close combat weapons. Didn't want to use them for anti-tank work anyway!

So should I only bother giving them one melta bomb, or still give 'em to the whole team? Also, is giving them plasma guns an effective, if expensive, way of fucking up infantry?

Play them as command squad on bike. Bikes with 2+ and WS5.