How can one man be so based?

This. How can you say he's a shitty father when he didn't actually meet his sons until they were adults? All parenting is gone at that point.

Just who the hell do you think I am?

Well he could have like, not humiliated Lorgar publically and pushed him towards Chaos. But what do I know ?

Well for one he didn't do what was best for their sons, he just took em, slapped em into their legions (their best interests be damned) and told them to do shit in his name. He also never bothered to actually help them beyond what was needed on the Great Crusade, nor did he show them any sort of affection, he was as much of a father to them as a fucking brick could be.

He was grown ass man passing around his shitty fanfic and fucking up the Emperor's No worship rule. He's not a goddamn child who needs to be coddled. If he does stupid shit, he has to pay the consequences.

He is meant to be majorly flawed, like literally everything else in the universe.

I'm amazed people can fall for in universe Propaganda.

He isnt, though.

He's not a great scientist, he wasnt responsible for any of mankinds greatest tech, his crowning achievment is begging chaos to make something for him.

He isnt a great strategist, his only strategy was 'if current dudes are insufficiently punchy, make punchier dudes and try again". A large part of why the IoM has such dumb tactics and tech is that the Emperor never really grasped war beyond WW1 and really greatly prefered when things were easy for him to understand and people just used swords.

He certainly wasnt a great leader. He mismanaged everything, ignored every warning or advice he was ever given, and left mankind at the mercy of the admech rather than put in the effort to replace them.

He was an above average psyker with feats placing him below Alpha+. Thats it. He just has a cult of people who never met him telling you how awesome he was.

Didn't he only refer to them by their numbers ? Like he wouldn't call him Lion El'Johnson, just number one or some shit ?

I still think fucking razing a whole planet (which mind you was the pride of he word bearers) into the ground and telling his son he and everything he had done had no worth and worse of all making him and his legion kneel before the ultramarines is pretty overkill for worshipping him.

...

No matter how much you shill, no-one but Carnac will ever consider your shifty fanfics canon, ADB.

The worship shit did no actual damage and could likley be reversed. Explain to Lorgar the dangers Chaos faces and direct him to spread the Imperial Truth. He's in charge of a 10,000+ Army of Supersoldiers which weren't even taken off him. Emps was a fucking idiot for thinking his 'discipline' would end well.

And on that note, explain the dangers of Chaos to Magnus and have him work on the Golden Throne of his own will knowing its importance instead of planning to just jam him in it.

Go to bed Abaddon

> Is year 2017
> Still worshipping the corpse emperor
Fucking loyalists

Too bad your opinion cannot change what's canon or not.

>He was an above average psyker
if by that you mean the strongest psyker in the universe then yes.

How about watching your kids instead of getting drunk and beating up the family dog.

Keep up the good work.

KAMINAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>nor did he show them any sort of affection

Affection is for faggots, Primarchs were supposed to be better than that.

>average psyker
>blasted Horus so hard his fucking soul was annihilated

hmm

By being intentionally designed to embody all of humanity's greatest virtues and our worst faults.

>mfw the entire Heresy was caused by Horus being upset his daddy left and never came back

Well, isn't he technically a bunch of old timey druids melded together? Does that count as "one man"?

>Kidnaps Angron, lets all of his friends die, gives the people who enslaved and lobotomized him dominion over their planet. All of this for... no reason?
>Sees Perturabo, who's obviously going bonkers over being denied any recognition or respect, and puts his legion on inglorious garrison duty, plus only assigns penal legions to work with him.
>Watches Magnus, who's flagrantly playing with the powers of the warp without knowing about the dangers of chaos in the slightest, for YEARs without doing anything, then tells him 'psykers are bad, mmmmmkay?' without explaining shit. Proceeds to send Leman Russ to arrest him after he tries to warn him about Horus instead of, I don't know, using an astropath or his own ungodly psychic might to have a conversation with him?
>Doesn't even fucking bother to get to know Alpharius at all. 'It's cool, I met your twin.' In contrast to months or years worth of getting to know his other sons and bringing them up to speed on his plans.
>Doesn't even attempt to help Konrad Curze, who's been openly insane since the Emperor met him due to his uncontrolled psychic prescience. Again, despite being the most knowledgeable psyker in the galaxy.

If it's not being a shitty parent to act like this towards your adult children, it's just being a shitty person. Emps was a regular-ass human with inhuman power and knowledge, but a flawed human nonetheless. Imperiumaboos are annoying, stop insisting the Emperor didn't have flaws already.

>traitors dindu nuffin
>imperiumboos
adb go back to bolter and cucksword

>/pol/ memes
>'any criticism of my fictional character, no matter how slight, makes you a shill for a fictional faction and a shitty fanfic enthusiast'

If you'd only added a pepe you'd have scored an autism hat trick.

Sure, but he never exploded a planet with his mind or mind controlled all of the inhabitants of 2 dozen star systems at once.

Stuff other psykers have done in canon, and if Emps could do would mean he never needed primarchs or marines in the first place.

Dont blame me, blame GW. Emps wasnt the strongest, he just has the best PR.

>any criticism
>gives the most biased and misleading possible accounts of events, intentionally omitting some information while overblowing other
>muh /pol/ boogeyman

He unleashed an attack described as more powerful then an exploding star in a dying state. He's also powering the fucking astronomican while in a state of living death.

Perturabo had a fetish for abusing and throwing away his men, so why give them actually good IA auxiliaries?

is right.

Emps, being who he was - an umpteen-thousand-year-old clusterfuck of suicidal shamans from the ancient world - did not understand people. Like, at all. That alone was his downfall.

>adb and carnac still assblasted by the Emperor's mere existence
How can the Emperor be so based?

Congratulation, that's exactly the kind of reasoning that caused the doom of the Imperium.
By looking at the entire history of mankind at this point, we can easily conclude that your statement is "fucking wrong, you fucking retard"

By being 7 based men at the same time.

>tfw when someone saves a post you made, typo and all

>And on that note, explain the dangers of Chaos to Magnus
I thought he did do that, though. He explicitly said shit like "hey, these are weird and potentially nasty xenos things, don't get too close" to all the Primarchs, and then half of them went and did the exact opposite.

He does that while Arkhan Land is present.

He doesn't do that all the time though.

It's easy, you just put pins through his legs.

But he is good, so he don't want to mind control and don't want to explode planets. He just wants people to voluntarily choose to lead good lives.

And by 'voluntarily choose', you mean "anyone who doesn't bend the knee to me within hours of finding out that I exist is getting their planet fucked from orbit and whoever survives gets to embrace the honor of joining my Imperium".

There was no negotiation with the Great Crusade. An Imperial fleet serving some giant golden warlord showed up in orbit of your planet and said you belonged to them now. If you disagreed on this, they started killing people and dismantling your planet until you had a change of heart. Voluntarily, of course.

It worked, and under the time constraints it was the most efficient method of uniting humankind.
Reminder that good=/=nice

They were literally built to lead the crusade though. They all knew that.

Doesn't mean they liked it.

Tough shit. That is the only reason they exist. The only thing that got in the way was their ego's.

It was never about what they "like" or not, it was about humankind's fate, of which they were part of.

Except it leaves a massive number of people who'd go Chaos as soon as they had a chance.

Also why didn't he do anything during the dark ages of technology? He seems to just cease to exist between late antiquity until the age of strife. I can fully understand the nature of the golden path being one of intense pain and suffering for everyone (himself included) but Leto II didn't sit around on his ass for 34 thousand years doing diddly squat. He started hugging sandtrout and becoming a giant tentacle as soon as he was a teenager.

The conflict between Emps intentions and the Primarchs personalities is what allows a story to take place. If the Emperor was perfect and all his subordinates were robots who executed their purpose perfectly it would be incredibly dull.

Its even worse than that.

Emps plan is so mind numbingly fucking stupid that he created literally the single best conceivable society for farming chaos cults.

"Hey, lets create a population of incredibly unhappy and desperate people who have no hope or prospects, and drill it into their heads to always follow orders and never think for themselves. While we are at it, lets make sure none of them know that chaos is a thing, so that only a handful of people recognize the signs of a chaos cult and no one knows that making deals with Chaos will fuck you and your planet 100% of the time. I'm TOTALLY SURE this won't result in a ton of people who don't know the risks involved accepting help from what appears to be a higher power to make their incredibly shitty lives less shitty."

He should have steped in and stopped petubro

>his crowning achievment is begging chaos to make something for him.
Literately what.

He could have explode a planet if he wanted to.
there is a reason extermius is reare

don't ask ot he'll start sperging again

>>blasted Horus so hard his fucking soul was annihilated

>Confirmed by authors that the final fight will get retconned
>anons still use William King's version

The Emperor couldn't banish one fucking daemon that was barely sentient.

The mistake with chaos becomes justifiable when the emperor is presented as believing that belief or worship of chaos causes chaos, not emotions. If you tell people such a thing as chaos exists and that you cannot worship them or you will endanger yourself and others, it will cause maladjusted and evil people to pursue worship of chaos for their own ends.

But doing so then leads to the emperor being far from omniscient (then again not being able to tell Horus was betraying him among other things already establishes that) and shows a real flaw and limitation in his knowledge.

Though after I mention the golden path you could extrapolate, if a real cheap stretch, that the emperor intended for this horseshit to happen with the horus heresy and imperium's decline to strengthen or forge the spirit of man. Had man just continued on the dark ages of technology trajectory they might have ended up poorly suited for what the universe would throw at them. Rather dubious proposition though

The family dog went back in time and fucked up thanksgiving for all time.

Everybody who claims that emps was flawless is a retard. Everyone who thinks he was some massive fuck up failure is a double retard. He did what he had to do to stop humanity from going extinct and he fucked up a decent bit because after all he is only human. Shit happened not because emperor fucked everything up but because chaos fucked it up. And even so thanks to emps mankind is the leading force in the galaxy

Actually.....see what Laurie Goulding has to say.

After spending THE MOST TIME with daddy of all the sons. The poor twins..

... emps plan was to make chaos go away because he thought they needed worship to exist. He didnt create a shitton of unhappy people. Living in the imperium during crusade wasnt bad. Fucking horus is responsible for the imperium as it is today.

>lets fight chaos
>by not telling anyone about chaos
>wtf half my sons fell to chaos

>‘I know, Ra. I take no umbrage at your questions. Think on this, then. I prepared them all, this pantheon of proud godlings that insist they are my heirs. I warned them of the warp’s perils. Coupled with this, they knew of those dangers themselves. The Imperium has relied on Navigators to sail the stars and astropaths to communicate between worlds since the empire’s very first breath. The Imperium itself is only possible because of those enduring souls. No void sailor or psychically touched soul can help but know of the warp’s insidious predation. Ships have always been lost during their unstable journeys. Astropaths have always suffered for their powers. Navigators have always seen horrors swimming through those strange tides. I commanded the cessation of Legion Librarius divisions as a warning against the unrestrained use of psychic power. One of our most precious technologies, the Geller field, exists to shield vessels from the warp’s corrosive touch. These are not secrets, Ra, nor mystical lore known only to a select few. Even possession by warp-wrought beings is not unknown. The Sixteenth witnessed it with his own eyes long before he convinced his kindred to walk a traitor’s path with him. That which we call the warp is a universe alongside our own, seething with limitless, alien hostility. The primarchs have always known this. What difference would it have made had I labelled the warp’s entities “daemons” or “dark gods”?’

-Emperor of Mankind

They were dumbasses. They knew enough.

Its even dumber than that!

"Hey, I know that alien cultures and even some human worlds out there have already fallen to chaos, so my armies will most definitely run into chaos powers, demons, and chaos tainted artifacts eventually. Probably while I am not around, too."

"Should I tell anyone... nah, I'm sure that leaving my incredibly powerful sons totally ignorant of the true dangers here and the corrupting nature of such artifacts won't result in the collapse of everything I have built."

>They knew enough
Except for Fulgrim and his perfectly normal sword

Here is the passage that explains why the Emperor really hated religion. I have no idea why nobody brings this up. Highlighted the important parts but you should read it all.

Religion in 40K (and some would argue in real life as well) is inherently bad.

Sounds potato. Getting rid of the navigators I understand. But a decent bit of space marines could have been more than warriors. The thousand sons were all educated nerds and often thought that they can do diffrent things than war. Lorgar wasnt a fighter ( by primarch standarts) and they would stay for a long time in the planets they took to rebuild them (in a bad waynmaking everyone think emps is god) fulgrims legion had plenty of artists etc. The thunder warriors neede to be killed of because they were too aggresive and unstable space marines werent like that. Also is this implying that emps actually wanted the primarchs scattered? Thats just stupid. The primarchs werent only build for war they could have just been leaders. I know this is just my opinion but the whole post just seems silly

He doesn't mention what actually screwed the Legions over, the gradual corruption that was unnoticeable on the surface and fostered amoung the Warriir Lodges.

The difference is that the lesson that most directly comes from that information is "hyperspace is dangerous", not "these powerful beings cannot be trusted and will destroy your mind in insidious ways if you are not careful and vigilant against their specific brands of corruption, which I have specifically told you nothing about".

Not all of the primarchs fell due to personal faults or straying from the path. Fulgrim's great sin was not knowing what a chaos possessed weapon was, and having no one else around him who knew either and could intervene before it was too late.

Fulgrim fell, and Ferrus Manus died, 100% as a result of the fact that the primarchs knew nothing about Chaos or how it worked.

>Also is this implying that emps actually wanted the primarchs scattered?

This is built from "Vengeful Spirit" where the Emperor made a deal with the Chaos Gods to grant him the power to create the Primarchs.

The Chaos Gods asked nothing in return except that they at some point scatter the Primarchs across the galaxy.

More like lets reunite humanity and make chaos go away by ignoring ut because I think that they need worshippers to exist

Because he's flawed as fuck and still tries to make life better for this people

>muh tyrants

Angron did not choose Khorne, Lorgar made the choice for him.

(checked)
And you think Angron would have choose differently?

Yes. The nails were slowly killing him. He would have rather killed the Emperor after asking him why he treated him the way he did. And then resigned himself to death. Dying free and true to himself.

He would have never chosen slavery to Khorne but Lorgar ascended him to daemonhood partly to save his life.

I uhh idk. I havent read all the heresy series yet only the first 15 books or so. I remmeber that in one of them some word bearers got sent back in time by a daemon and were tricked into destroying the gellar fields protecting the still unfinished primarchs that got scattered and emps said something like "pls no" when it happened

Just read First Heretic after putting it off cause of all the other Legions I like-
It was horus going "pls no", cause it was his own sent back in time vision from one of the first three books

From Vengeful Spirit and the First Heretic, it looks more like the Emperor tricked the Chaos Gods/ didn't live up to his end of the deal which pissed the Chaos Gods off. That's coming from daemons tho

>This is built from "Vengeful Spirit" where the Emperor made a deal with the Chaos Gods to grant him the power to create the Primarchs.
Oh good lord what.

Could someone give me a quick rundown on the situation in these post. I'm pretty new to 40k lore, so who is adb and Carnac?

I wonder if Angron hated him for that. I mean, he killed all his sorcerers after noticing them trying to block lorgar's magic, and yet he was prepared to die on that field. Did brotherly love balance that out, or what?

While we have from a kinda-reliable source that the Emperor made a deal with the Chaos Gods while on Molech, the deal about helping create the primarchs was from a daemon in another book, so could be lies

aaron dembski-bowden, or ADB, is a once promising Black Library writer that sadly let his own personal issues and fanboyism get in the way of his writing, and thus ended up making several large retcons in favour of Chaos/Abaddon and character assassinating the Emperor.
He also has a stop liking what I don't like mentality which tends to annoy people who don't benefit from his writing.

Carnac is a well known autistic chaos fanboy, infamous for white knighting for Abaddon, never backing down even when blatantly wrong, taking disagreement as a personal insult, and having an encyclopedic knowledge of lore in his favour combined with a nasty habit of "forgetting" anything that contradicts it. he also worships the ground ADB walks on, to the point of people either thinking he is actually ADB, or is a deep cover agent who hates him and is using reverse psychology
And when I say autistic, I'm not memeing. At face value the guy is almost certainly on the spectrum

He is a tau fanboy.

>But a decent bit of space marines could have been more than warriors.
I still prefer the concept that the Primarchs were intended for other things after the Crusade was done, but the Emperor, in his characteristic "they don't need to know yet, we still got a lot of conquering to do and they need to be focused on that" mode of thought, never got around to telling them.

Horus would be Warmaster and watch over the lot of them.

Roboute would be a bureaucrat and statesman.

Rogal Dorn would build things.

Ferrus and Vulkan were for AdMech connections and technology development.

Russ was for the open police.

Magnus was for powering the Throne and freeing the Emperor to not have to sit on it all the time while the Webway stuff got finished.

Alpharius/Omegon were for secret police actions, undercover work, etc.

Curze is for delivering terror to those who would rebel.

Fulgrim and Sanguinius are for propaganda, to look good on the picts.

Lorgar was for developing the Imperial Truth and propagating it.

And so on down the list.

He had that brief moment of existence absent the rage of the Nails when he ascended, and he was suddenly at peace.

Then Khorne's rage kicked in and he was not very happy any more. He'd have chosen death.

Fulgrim was more for the arts and humanities. Basically the cultural stuff and idealizing the human side of it. The Emperor didn't want a stale and robotic world.

The Primarchs are packed with concentrated Warp energy inside them, like how when Ferrus dies a localised warp storm erupts. Consider them sort of like Greater Daemons of the Emperor in spirit, clothed in flesh. Probably much stronger than Greater Daemons too, with all sorts of other benefits.

Thing is, creating them takes a massive investment of power. The Emperor could do it, sure. We know he HAS his immense power before he creates them, such as when he fought Void Dragon or in various other stories. But why should he risk diminishing himself that way when he can instead go into the Warp, fight/learn/acquire a massive chunk of Warp energy, and then take that and put it into his Primarch Project instead?

Daemons and so on claim that the Emperor made a deal and then went back on it, but given that the Emperor walked out of that warpgate looking like he'd been in a fight, my theory is that he didn't so much cut a deal as he fought his way to whatever the wellspring was, stole it, and hightailed it out of there. It'd be just like a daemon too, to speak in half-truths and omission. They refer to him as the Anathema, after all. He's their opposite, not their equivalent.

And he was overconfident.

>Living in the imperium during crusade wasnt bad.

While I believe the situation is more complex than 'Emprah a dumb' (he wasn't dumb, he was just a dime-a-dozen dictator with too much power), this is false. The Emperor's Imperium explicitly put in place systems where entire planets were essentially transformed into slave labour camps, not as punishment or anything, but because it was convenient. They even did this with populations that could be more useful in others ways, simply because they had been exposed to non-hostile xenos and Big E could stand the idea of that knowledge spreading.

The Emperor's Imperium was pretty damn evil.

This seems the appropriate place to ask.

I've just bought stellaris and planning a campaign as the Emperor of man.

Advice/thoughts?