/WFG/ Warhammer Fantasy General

>& BarDONG

I just want to take the time to remind everyone of the importance of reading comprehension.
A 6 is not an 8.

Bump

Noob here, recently got into WH because of the Total War game. Anyways I was reading the Liber Chaotica and I read stuff like pi related, does that mean that fantasy and 40k are in the same universe?

This picture sums up my feelings rather well...

My favorite Warhammer Fantasy faction is the Chaos Dwarfs...

Just end the suffering...

I feel bad for the dozen or so Chaos Dwarf fans. You never got much love.

It's a touchy subject. At one point they certainly were as equipment came though, then they seemed to drift apart and towards the end they made it seem as though the warp and realm of chaos were the same thing in both settings again.

Short answer is it's down to your personal opinion. I like to think they are joined by the warp but not in the same universe as the warp is an extra dimensional phenomenon.

We didn't really need a bump did we? We drop to P8 at the maximum.

Would any of the Imperial Knighthood orders take a sellsword from the border princes on as a squire? On of my PCs want to be a knight, maybe of the Blazing Sun

Blazing Sun might if you were a Myrmidian.

>Nothing telling me not to bring up end times
So guys, what did you like best about the end times?

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I liked the build up leading to the return of Nagash. Everything after that not so much.

There are a few orders who recruit on merit over social standing but they are few and far between.

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I like the regiments and the little artwork that came with them. They were barebones as fuck, but it provided a lot of good ideas for forces and how they could relate to lords or deities or what have you, and even gave Bretonnia some flavorful options that otherwise they wouldn't have had.

The 40k Galaxy is in a crystal ball in the vaults of the Celestial College in Altdorf. Warhammer fantasy is a planet in 40k cutoff from the rest of the galaxy by Warp storms. Both of these things are true.

I liked Vlad sacrificing himself to free Isabella from Nurgle, and I liked the imagery of Neferata, Isabella and their retinues of savage vampire knights standing guard over the last remaining refugees of Altdorf as they waited for the world to end.

Black, per what I've seen

they ended

>does that mean that fantasy and 40k are in the same universe?

It started like that, but then it became more ambiguous, and they stopped referencing eachother as heavily, and then it was officially stated at some point that they are entirely separate, especially when they felt a need to make 40k something other than "Warhammer Fantasy in space", but then they started making veiled cross-references again, even up to and including End Times.

Personally, I like the idea, just like I liked it better when things were a lot more unstated or unclear, and people were fully aware of the value of the unreliable narration the setting(s) depended upon, before GW started increasingly "clarifying" things that inevitably contradicted other things that had previously been "clarified" in objective sources.

Basically everything up to and including Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Ed. is kept within the realm of plausible deniability and unreliable narration, and even some of the most objective sources on the nature of the universe is written from an in-universe manner, making the true nature of things entirely debatable.

So there's no obvious, clear answer, but if you want some muh opinions, I feel like the vast majority of fans of Warhammer Fantasy that are actually into the lore of the Warhammer Fantasy setting itself have no issues accepting the idea that Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k exists in the same "universe" or at least "multiverse".

Had GW actually established End Times/Age of Smegmar as a separate continuity instead of trying to force it's rubbish into a pre-existing setting that they purposefully and categorically tried to ruin - only to end up fully establishing the End Times/Age of Sigmar as a separate setting anyway - I don't think most fans would've had issues with cross-references regarding that, either.

At one point, Khornite Champions could get bolters from Khorne. He gave zero fucks.

>the dozen or so Chaos Dwarf fans

I dunno, man. It's funny, because I think that basically everyone I play WFRP2 with loves the Chaos Dwarfs.

They had a ton of potential. Like so much else, they didn't just get poor support, but they veered completely off-course towards the end, as that particular piece of art you posted shows.

It's nice and everything, but it doesn't really capture the mesopotamian/babylonian/sumerian feel the chaos dwarfs should have, and a lot of later stuff also lost the fact that they were pretty much the only industrialized faction.

They could've been a centralized but major chaos faction, but they were relegated to a support role.

I was interested in getting cairn wraiths and banshees for my VC army, but I really don't like the fact that GW's models only come in one pose, and $15 is way too much for a standard sized mini.

I was looking at Reaper's website and their "harvester" models look promising, but would they be the right scale for Warhammer? I'm especially concerned that if I were to get some of their Banshee alternative models, they might look out of place among all the heroic-scale minis.

I like to think that the warp is hypothetically a bridge between the Fantasy Battle and 40k universes, which is why chaos exist in both.

but Chaos is different in both.

No it's not.

yes it is. They have similarities but for all intents and purposes they are different entities.

Someone who says they are the same is just plain dumb.

>for all intents and purposes they are different entities.

How so?

different origin story, different Characterisations.

>different origin story

The Chaos Gods don't have an origin story in Fantasy.

>different Characterisations.

Their characters are the same.

The only difference between WHFB and 40k chaos was that daemons in 40k exist only temporarily by meaning the world is less magical.

Daemons in Fantasy can only take shape when the winds blow strong enough or powerful Sorcerors bind them in the materium.

thread killed by Archaon the ever sue

It might be worth noting that we just completed Ashes of Middenheim and the PC's have gained fame and recognition for stopping the civil war and the cult of the Crimson Skull.

About to move on to Spires of Altdorf, it seems very intrigue heavy. I think I am familiar enough with the material to run it though.

Also is Roadwarden the best starting career? you get a riding horse and a friggin pistol from the get go

Actually to add on to this are there any must-have splatbooks for WRRP 2nd Edition? It seems like such a shame that they went in such a totally different direction for what they labelled 3rd edition.

As for all this End Times malarky I think the major reason why I didnt like it was that they just kinda took this incredibly rich Fantasy setting and blew it up in favor of random battles on multiverse plains or whatever the shit. I have not seen a single other RPG setting that scratches the same sort of gritty pulpy and deadly fantasy RPG stuff that the Old World does, and it has some Renaissance tech like flintlock firearms and cannons to boot. My group has fucking loved it so far and most of them were not terribly familiar with Warhammer Fantasy before we started playing.

Lehendary lord Krok-Gar was announced.

>Legendary
Fuck me.

As to what constitutes the gods is different, which could be considered "origin", such as the gods being physical individuals with all that entails, rather than metaphorical or immaterial gestalts made manifest, and the characters are very different. The End Times/Age of Sigmar really drives home the flanderization of the Chaos Gods to the point where they ditched Slaanesh because he was nothing but dicks and titties, and Khorne is nothing but rip and tear.

that anatomy makes it look like it's about to BRAAAAAAP

Looking at that map you can kind of guess that their enemies will largely be Ogres, Goblins and Undead, with the obligatory mirror match's against rival Chaos Dwarf warlords.

Don't suppose anyone has a scan or a copy of this beast that they could scan?

That thing is awesome.

I get the impression a few people on here have large un finished projects?

Would anyone be up for a bi-monthly project review? Every two weeks we post our progress either at building or painting? Kind of like an exclusive Fantasy WIP?

Second this!

I honestly dislike the connection personally, but I didn't mind it in the state of deniability. My main issue with it is that the Fantasy Universe is just relegated to the "another random planet destroyed by orks/chaos/the inquisition" status of importance if it is in the same universe.

is dat sum /twg/ memery?

I'm calling it now, Tyranids will end up like Demons, they'll be able to be used in 40K and age of smeg through some warp bullshit.

Reminder that the empire has the best political system in the world.

>tanks chaos with it's face
>helps dorfbros out all the time.
>makes money and wears floppy hats.

Can anyone tell me what Age of Sigmar'so map/world is supposed to look like? Cause all I've seen is a bunch of God planes & fighting in Asgardian type Realms. Fuck that shit I just want my Not!Europe back

Tbh the High Elves are probably better, but in the old world the Empire is the best.

>Clusterfuck that is Tilea
>Estalia is meh, your average real world feudal society
>"Protection racket" horsefuckers
>Frozen ass serfs with a decent levy system, but not much else
>Border who now?

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I disagree about the high elf part.
Their government and society is far more dependent upon the protection and well being of the everqueen. Malekith nearly destroyed the high elves by assassinating the everqueen and invading ulthuan at the same time and that was with finubar being safe and sound.

Meanwhile the empire had the skaven plague, destruction of sylvania and boris goldgather's rule in the span of a generation and rebounded back because it was decentralized enough and didn't have autistic rules about rulership.
Sigmar for better or worse created a system that is open for change far more than the high elven one and yet keeps the legitimacy of the emperor and the empire in the heart of it's people.

Plus the empire has far more fighting going on in it than in ulthuan.

post more memeballs.

>magic tricks such as put dat phat ass on muh elf dik.
bretonnia seems to be a sad joke tbph.

I have more memes, just none in ball format

I have all the spurdles.

True, but at the same time there is a lot less infighting compared to the empire, and they are more efficient in regards to taxation, levying, and "witch hunting", so it is kind of a trade off. On top of that, I am pretty sure high elf armies answer directly to the Phoenix King, while Empire armies amswer to the elector count/minor lord that pays for them.

nope, high elf armies answer to their lords who answer to the phoenix king. They are organized in a far more bretonnian system than the imperial one.

>rulers have to do a specific job to be the phoenix king/king.
>have a class divide that is similar to bretonnia but is not 100% monty python tier.

The elves also benefit from being nearly completely free from magical corruption and being taught by the old ones how to use magic.
Meanwhile the empire has had the colleges of magic for a fraction of it's history and humans are both prone to corruption and live in large swathes of land that have a shitload of beastmen and other nasty things.

did you know sega was an american company that japan bought out?

I know now.
fucking gooks.

Also true. I think high elf "peasants" are basically free men in a medieval sense though, and not bound to the land. I believe the majority, if not all, of the empire's citizenry are free men as well, though there are tenants that work the nobility's fields.

while there isn't an ironclad institute of serfdom in elven lands, it might be more to do with the nature of elves themselves. Their lands are completely free of any invaders, they live long healthy lives and their lords don't bother them for wars all that much so they never felt the need to leave the lands anyway.

The empire pretty much has huge cities adjacent to the grey mountains and the vault ranging from marienburg to nuln. Cities mean more burghers and centralized pools of manpower for armies, something the elves or bretonnians don't have.

I may not like the Lady's actual identity, but at least it helps make her distinct from the Wood Elves. It's interesting to hear them call her a 'watery harlot' and 'the queen of the silver spire' in Total Warhammer.

Would have been cooler if she was actually a human goddess formed through belief and faith, but of course that's somehow impossible.

Yeah, the former is pretty much what I figured as well. In general though, country life in the empire I feel has never been properly explored, even in the WHRPG.

>Altdorf has a staggering population of "100,000"
>surrounding countryside barely has any population at all (you know, what would be needed to work the fields and all that)
>Averheim, in the count with the best farmland in the empire, only has a population of 8,000

I really like Vermintide's approach to it though, especially Stromdorf in the new DLC. It's basically an average Medieval town, in comparison to the metropolis that is Ubershreik. Also Wheat and Chaff + the docks from Engine of War are comfy af.

warhammer total war is not set in the end times. stopping bring shit smegma lore into it

also the feet enchantress is clearly a human and not an elf

Swap Norsca with Bretonnia and you have an accurate depiction of the old world.

youre a filthy nigger triggered trying too hard to be edgy

>boo hoo chads protected us from being raped by goatmen and demons but they are proud of themselves for doing it which makes them worse than demons actually!

it makes sense that people would try and live in larger cities rather than countrysides because of beasties in the woods. The reik would make transporting food to altdorf extremely easy. Averheim being a small city would be pretty neat because a farming population means that they would be far more dispersed with Averheim largely being a glorified granary and food transport center.

Myrmidia already fulfills the role and is far more badass than the lady since her religion seems to focus on building a better future for mankind rather than being a meatshield for her special wood elf autists.

Your picture didn't have the border princes pointing to Norsca and Estalia, so I had to make due.

>Also you have a worse navy than Norsca, enjoy being gang raped by DE witch elves.

>protected.
>this is what bretonnians tell themselves.

are you retarded? why even get into arguments like this if you know nothing about lore

bretonnia has one of the most powerful navies in the setting. maybe 3rd after helves and delves

empires literally built great ships in response to seeing how badass bretonnian ships are and the great ships are still smaller and less powerful

fuck off you dumb faggot. people who get triggered by paladins are the same that hate bretonnia. its too much for you to see a straight white male presented as a hero

It isn't set in the End Times, no - but it's clear from dialogue and voice lines between Bretonnia and the Wood Elves that the Lady is considered a distinct entity separate from anything the Wood Elves worship.

If you like the End Times lore, you could call her Lileath. But she's never referred to as such - only with insults as mentioned, and 'the Lady of the Silver Spire' - which is a mountain considered sacred to the Lady of the Lake. This was something set up before the End Times, with a Wood Elf battle pre-Bretonnian unification taking place near the Silver Spire and Orion sensing an unfamiliar divine presence.

The empire's biggest port is effectively outside their control, thus making their requirement for a navy moot. Empire artillery is magnitudes more advanced than bretonnian bombards on ships

The guy has quite the package down there. Let's hope that codpiece holds.

There was also a point where Orion would say 'if it weren't for the friendship between your Lady and Ariel...' or something along those lines - making it clear they're distinct, but again not identifying her.

Compared to some of the pre-End Times theories, it at least helps make things make sense - one of the ones I remember was that Bretonnians had mistaken Ariel as a deity. But why fight with the Wood Elves if Ariel was the Lady, and she could manipulate them as she willed?

That's old fluff from when Bretonnia was a very different beast.

he says "The friendship between our ladies grants you passage to athel loren - nothing more."

the only thing that bretonnia has is old fluff. unless total warhammer actually has ship units next game

>but then they started making veiled cross-references again, even up to and including End Times.

that wasn't Draigo that araloth met, it was a stormcast.

Eh, you have to keep in mind Averheim is its own elector count with its own political concerns. I doubt the elector counts' first concern is structuring their entire province to feed some reiklander peasants.

>its too much for you to see a straight white male presented as a hero

Sorry, but even Tilean whores don't ride dick as much as your knights do.

>faction based off of countries that ruled the world through their powerful navies
>vs factions based off of snow niggers in rafts

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. I don't give a fuck who has the strongest navy but don't take Breonnia Man O' War shit at face value when it's from 1993.

thats a strange way of saying youre wrong

shouldnt you be in the smegma thread?

So is the m00t. A province that supplies grain to half the empire would be well protected and would enjoy the support of the current emperor any day of the week. Averland doesn't need to be something else when it is already the breadbasket of the empire.

Also, I personally don't take the WHRPG figures at face value, mostly because I believe that imperial miles =/= English miles, and are in fact considerably longer than them

My personal headcanon is that the major cites of the reik river system (Averheim, Nuln, Altdorf, Marienburg, Talbecheim, and formerly Mordheim) all have populations of about 1,000,000+, with "major" cities away from the reik having 150-500,000+ (Ubershreik, Wolfenburg, Middenheim, ect.) The reason why such large populations could be supported would be because the area of farmland along the major river systems is increased dramatically. However, this would spread out the population at the same time, ensuring there is a "healthy" rural society.

Of course, this then means that the forests of the Empire are also expanded..... to a staggering degree really, making them all the more dangerous. I find that this seems to fit all my personal niches.

that map is amazing is there one for every province?

yeah, that makes sense. One of these days I am going to open pfm and reduce movement speed of all units to 1/3rd. The map feels tiny as it is.

No, as far as I know of. I actually found the picture in this thread, so I wouldn't know where to look.

What else are we supposed to base it off of, though? Almost nothing else has been written about the Bretonnian navy. It's not as if there's some big retcon that's being stubbornly ignored. With most factions, you still have to base their naval lore on Man O' War because almost nothing else has been written on the subject.

Well you can assume that their navy fits the rest of their technological level, so medieval.

You can also assume that if Bretonnia was such a naval superpower Estilea and the Empire would not have colonies in Lustria.

we can base it off their society?
Bretonnia somehow has giant huge ships that require a lot of sophisticated infrastructure that the empire cannot compete with despite having better technology in every way.
Bretonnian ships are armed with cannons but bretonnians don't use gunpowder on land AT ALL but have the metallurgical skill to make shipborne cannons.