Infinity is a 28mm scale futuristic skirmish game by Corvus Belli where hip and rebellious knights live in jungles and drive fast cars onto the battlefield.
How the fuck does holo1 interact with hacking. There are scenarios where you need to know if the hackable trait is open info, but can't premeasure hacking area to confirm.
Relevant rules: -"However, in Holoprojector L1 state the Hackable Characteristic is considered Open Information when the trooper is inside the Hacking Area of an enemy." -Equipment is private info on Holo1, so being a hacker is not open even in hacking area, as hackers don't have the hackable trait (unless it is a HI hacker)
Logan Ortiz
Hackers are hackable. How else would a KHD killer hack hackers?
Cameron Turner
Whether or not the model is hackable is not private information, regardless of if it's in the holoecho l1 state or not.
The perfidious Interventor Morgana gets an ARO when an Order Sergeant model enters her Zone of Control. Morgana asks if that trooper has the Hackable Characteristic, and surprisingly she gets a "yes" as reply. With evil satisfaction, the Interventor declares a Hacking ARO against that model. Morgana succeeds at the roll only to realize much to her chagrin that it was just a Holoecho and not a real trooper. However, now she knows some of the other Order Sergeants are a Holy Sepulchre Knight bearing a Holoprojector L2. The game has just started.
The enemy hacker would declare a hacking attempt, you'd say he's not hackable (especially seeing as he'd use a program only usable against HI, and Kanren is not HI), and the order would be wasted.
At least, I think I'm reading the situation right.
Jordan Gonzalez
Hackers do not necessarily have the Hackable trait. KHD programs state in its requirements that the target has to be a Hacker. Other programs specifically state that the program works on models with the hackable characteristic.
Check Oblivion versus Spotlight and Brain Blast.
Joseph Perez
The hackable trait and being a hacker are 2 different things. You do not need to be "hackable" to be the target of a hacking attack. See many programs. "The target must be an enemy with the Hackable Characteristic (HI, TAG, REM...) or an enemy Hacker."
"However, in Holoprojector L1 state the Hackable Characteristic is considered Open Information when the trooper is inside the Hacking Area of an enemy." When not in the hacking area, it is not open information.
The problem arises from when a hacker declares a hacking attack from too far away.
"Is this model hackable?" *clearly 16 inches away* Yes, it is (showing as zuyong), hacking attack is clearly out of range, wasted.
"is this model hackable?" *in limbo between 7 and 9 inches* There is no correct response. Either you are lieing or you give away free information the opponent should not have. You are not allowed to pre-measure the 8".
Jason Davis
Then the problem arises where your opponent declares an order that is illegal, but they should have known wasn't illegal. You can't revert back to the aro since now you have information that it is within 8", so then you can change your second short skill to shotgun the hacker for example. The problem lies in the fact you can not measure until the order is resolving.
Hunter Gomez
Hacking Devices and Hacking Programs: Characteristics Hacking Devices and their suite of Hacking Programs obey a series of general rules:
They act in Zone of Control, be it the Hacker's or a Repeater's if the specific Hacking Program allows hacking in Hacking Area. Their target need not be within the Hacker's LoF, unless otherwise specified by the Hacking Program's rules. >They automatically identify whether a figure—but not a Marker—inside the Hacker's Hacking Area is targetable by a specific Hacking Program. They allow the player to enlist REMs in his Army List.
My personal interpretation is that if they don't have a hacker within ZoC, you just show them the courtesy list, which would show that it has the hackable trait. As soon as you enter ZoC, they have the option of asking if it is "targetable by a specific hacking program", where you have to say whether the REAL model is actually hackable or not by that program.
Kanren KHD disguised as Zuyong. I move within an unconfirmed range 7.5"-8.5"
"Is it targetable by this program" I respond with "I am not within your hacking area" you choose to shoot, I shoot back with a shotgun, we check ranges and I'm within 8"! Did I lie? No, I thought I was outside 8". There's no way this can be considered cheating either, it just seems like bullshit.
There is no way to tell until order resolution, you can not premeasure.
In the case where the Kanren KHD is within 8" clearly, then the response is "no". Hacking devices can't magically see through holo1, even though you as the player know what is going on. I am a non-hackable trooper in ZoC. I am not a legal target for any of your hacking programs.
Brayden Wright
Q: In the reactive turn, when can you measure the Zone of Control? A: Following the steps of the Order Expenditure Sequence: you declare a ZoC ARO, and in the step of resolution, is when the players take measurements. So, is troop is in the ZoC, resolve his ARO, but if not, the ARO is lost.
"Is the [HEl1] targetable by Trinity?" "I don't think you're in ZoC" "I'll measure" "You're not in ZoC, so you lose the ARO."
That's all I can think of. Who knows what happens in the active turn.
The problem is that the 'automatically identify' rule is written poorly. It wouldn't be a problem if this was a pre-measuring game, but this isn't Warmahordes.
Cooper Miller
...
Liam Anderson
The mythical design of PanO's LGL+combi rifle. Feels like seeing an unicorn.
Caleb Jackson
We'll probably get a unicorn model in Infinity sooner than a PanO Combi + LGL one.
Charles Russell
Hey, we still need a [s]Fast Panda repack[/s] Regular hacker.
Jacob Flores
I just noticed the old Montesa is Combi + LGL. It's also one of the few units where this loadout is preferable I reckon.
Actually, how do you run Montesa Duos? Somehow I tend to think of LGL and LRL as the optimal choices.
Josiah Peterson
>I just noticed the old Montesa is Combi + LGL Look again.
Nicholas Garcia
Do we know what New Vatican looks like? I was thinking of making cobblestone bases for my MO list to contrast between their high tech nature and old traditionalist values.
Aaron Ross
I can't wait until I'm finally able to get mad about Regulars. It's going to be so much fun bitching about CB's bad choices.
Spitfire+LGL and spitfire+LRL are my favourites. I like having the lieutenant option and high burst killy gun. I could see LGL+LRL working though.
Matthew Taylor
Something like this.
Dominic Morris
So who has used the Unknown Ranger?
I am curious what you all think of the profiles?
I like the idea of the rifle one, but with not protections, I am not sure he will survive long enough to get to use scavenger. The molotok seems so pricey.
What you all think?
Aaron Taylor
Well, he's got mimetism, Kinematika L1, NBW and ARM 4, that's pretty well protected overall. The issue I have with him is his point cost; even for the CoC one, 41 points is a LOT to pay for that package.
Colton Green
Hows this for a non-ITS kill-fest? I enjoy Lieutenant shenanigans
Never ran rifle version because it's incredibly overpriced and basically pointless. Molotok is a beast, though. Just be careful when engaging in CC, you won't be able to use scavenger if you turn your enemy into a mush, so choose your weapons wisely: knife against NVI/dogged troops, pistol against light infantry, T2 CCW against HI.
Leo Robinson
>Just be careful when engaging in CC, you won't be able to use scavenger if you turn your enemy into a mush, so choose your weapons wisely: knife against NVI/dogged troops, pistol against light infantry, T2 CCW against HI. You can't avoid mushing 1 wound troops that don't have shock immunity or remote presence. T2 CCW does 2 damage which instakills them, and both the heavy pistol and knife are shock. You pretty much have to rely on lucky shooting.
Chase Gonzalez
Damn, I didn't notice that heavy pistol has Shock. Well, it's only shooting then.
Anthony White
1 wound models in CC range of an Unknown Ranger are probably going to be CC-oriented themselves though, like warbands. Guys with HMGs like Intruders will want to keep away from him. It's more useful against a Swiss Guard or something, shanking him, taking his HMG or AHD.
What's your opinion on Govads in Haqq? Are they worth it or should I just go for Djanbazan if I want MSVs?
Aiden Thompson
Govads are a hard call outside HB. Djanbazans cover the MSV role pretty strongly (espcially being level 2 instead of 1). Though if wanting to maximize on orders sometimes taking the cheaper Govad can squeeze in that extra Daylami or something.
Jonathan Howard
I personally only play QK, not vanilla, so I love me some Djannies, but the Govads are nice--very slightly cheaper, veteran L1 is nothing to frown at (especially with REligious Troop). Djanbazan have Regeneration and Multiterrain, which is nice too, but salvaging a LOL situation can save games.
Govads also have a few more profile options (though no doctor plus option) and move faster, though aren't as tough against foes targetting BTS.
I say they're worth it, personally, but despite both being good-BS MSV troops they hae different tactical applications, so go with what your list needs more.
Jace Lee
They're sort of like the Grenzer to the Djanbazan's Intruder. Decent for the ML profile, but other than that I'd just skip straight to the Djan. Govads are more of a sectorial thing.
Oliver Torres
Even in HB, they've got a lot of tough competition. Muyibs are one of the best elite links in the game, and now that we've got Leila Sharif, a full Ghulam link is cheaper and offers the same weapon loadouts. Unless you really need MSV1, they feel a little hard to justify.
Jose Cox
Oh, and forgot one thing. I haven't tried it, but in theory the killer hacker should be a pretty good combat specialist as MSV+KHD+boarding shotgun is a potent toolkit for skullfucking infiltrators.
Alexander Smith
I do find myself shelving Govads for Muyibs, even without Leila considered. Though recently been doing a lot of Muyib core with a Asawira haris with a smoke Muyib and Leila. It's been pretty effective.
John Reyes
which model could represent ivanka and baron trump the best?
Daniel Lewis
Nisses or Joan with a headswap and a Jotum, obviously.
I have a O-12 comissar painted as Trump. Just greenstuff some hair and it's done.
Dominic Carter
>O-12 commissar >Concilium finally becomes sick of everyone breaking their conventions
In my language "commissar" and "commissioner" are the same word so I can see how someone can make that mistake
Isaac Lopez
that is the old trump, I need a model of Baron Trump. I think I'll take the head from joan and the body of the shotgun foxtrot, she has the perfect pose, as if spiting on you. Judging you with her deep slavic eyes. I have to joans which head you think would be better the mobility armor or the old classic? I could buff any of them with green stuff.
Henry Moore
>I need a model of Baron Trump. Yeah, a Jotum. The kid hasn't even hit puberty and he's like 6 fucking feet tall.
Jeremiah Jones
>which head you think would be better No idea.
I was more thinking that he seems to like tractors, but that's also true.
Ryan Ramirez
I thought about using the dire foes yu jing guy for him and the new Giraldes with a head swamp for the God Emperor himself. we have a yu jing player tha tis very anti trump, and he hates that americans move troops in to our country. I want to troll him as hard as possible.
Angel Morales
Paint some rainbow troops, too.
Ayden Clark
If Nomads are worried about Aleph, why don’t they simply fly their ships to some remote corner of space?
Eli Cooper
Without aleph protection they would die out. They are a bit like that sister everyone has that decided to go in to gender studies. Crazy, hit parents and siblings, but when she runs out of cash she always either does porn or asks parents.
Brayden Ramirez
The universe is huuuge.
The odds of running into something as nasty as Aleph or Combined Army are astronomicaly low and surviving or even growing isn’t difficult as long as their ships have factories that would allow them to process raw materials which can be found in great quantities around most stars.
Alexander Rivera
They need the rest of the human sphere to survive, you can´t just cut from the planets and pretend to hace resources from nothing.
Bentley Adams
>resources from nothing
There are chunks of metal and enormous balls of rocket fuel floating through space waiting for somebody to pick them up
Julian Powell
yes. and unending fields of space spargles and star whales to feed on.
Kayden Perry
Thankfully there are plenty of ways to turn minerals into food.
Elijah Stewart
Hi Noel
Asher Ward
that is not how agriculture works.
Chase Myers
Not her actually! It's easy to figure out who else I am from that thread though. This format for discussion is much better desu, you don't have smart-asses who play by house rules going "Haha that's not how it works ;)" when they encounter a situation that does not have an objectively correct solution.
Nathan Moore
My katyusha killed knauf, on his first try.
Julian Stewart
>Kanren KHD >not hackable you what
Oliver Miller
Talking about the TRAIT hackable. Not if it is able to be affected by hacking or not. The trait is the green square by HI/REM/TAG profiles.
Mason Gonzalez
HOw do people use the heavier TAGs and things? I play Ariadna, so maybe it's just me being odd, but I have trouble imagining being able to fit 100-odd points for a single model--I have trouble enough fitting in Mirage-5 to a good portion of my lips, and it's 69 points for two models!
Benjamin Turner
You see that gun? It mulches people.
You see that MOV value? Gets you to mulching range fast
You see that ARM? Helps shrug off most common weapons.
TAGs are for hurting people. Big beatsticks.
I can bring a Squalo, hacker support,REMs and a core link at 300pts
I get where you are coming from, since most Ariadnan units are (way too) good and pretty cheap
Adam Long
But for the price of that tag, surely you could bring two to four other models, that not only provide their own specialties but also add double to quadruple the orders to your total pool?
Jason Harris
That's what we call 'dragon syndrome' locally. Basically, as cool as that huge dragon model is, for it's price I could also include a hundred more archers. There's a place for either, but I still have some trouble with adhering to that.
Brayden Taylor
However, you must also pay the price $$$ for those 100 archers. Dragon may be literally cheaper.
Joshua King
TAGs are the best way to run amok when there is an opening for it. A Jotum has Arm 13 in cover and a weapon for each range band to ensure high probability of success with 3 fuck ups before you lose. In Ariadna, a lot of your choices are throw away models that serve to give you orders and maybe a lucky shot ARO.
You can still jam in a lot of orders even before an expensive TAG to do all the things you need. And then you got a fucking monster Rambo and in the right spot, they can be devastating. The trouble is they are susceptible to hackers and other nonsense. So it is an all or nothing thing.
Michael Adams
Once you have your ten orders to fuel the TAG with you should be good. Anything beyond that is either redundancy or shenanigans, because, realistically-speaking, when you build for a TAG your plan begins and ends with that TAG.
Hunter Green
anyone messed around with ALIVE yet, in whole or parts? How do they play?
Justin Peterson
They're basically cheating
William Wood
Oh? More details, please, I'm curious.
Jack Ward
Imagine you're playing Nomads, and your toughest attack piece is an HMG Intruder. Intruder has one wound and dies instantly to a single crit. Now, I could run 2 Intruders for the price of a [Nomad TAG], but if I spend three orders to move my Intruder into place before it dies, I have to spend another three orders to move my backup Intruder into place (plus higher SWC).
Alternatively, I can take a Szalamandra. It has more armor out of cover than the Intruder has in cover, but it doesn't have Camo, and it has a penalty to dodge. This means that the Szalamandra is much worse in the reactive turn, but much better in the active turn. It also has 6-4 movement compared to 4-2, so if it took 3 orders to move-move the Intruder, I can do that in two orders, or even move-move and move-shoot.
Now, because it has 3 wounds, if I fail an armor roll, I'm not immediately screwed. I can fall back and hide so he doesn't die on the reactive turn, and I have the option to heal it with an Engineer.
TAGs are just extremely order-efficient attack pieces. If you're even slightly lucky, you can easily clear 30-40pt models without losing a wound or risking the loss of a model. You just need to be able to keep it alive for turn 2.
Jeremiah Jones
Factions in Infinity have been traditionally balanced by several things, one of those being Hacking access. The Hackers that ALIVE provides are basically minmaxed: they don't sag points for the service you want them to provide (Hacking).
Ariadna and Tohaa, two current top-tier factions, benefit the most from the ALIVE hackers, whereas the addition of ALIVE to a faction like Yu Jing or Haqqislam isn't as pronounced. So, they tilt the potential favor towards two already highly-favoured factions. ALEPH doesn't necessarily need them, but they are cheap units hackers nonetheless. Switch's rules also cause some headscratching, as you have seen above.
ITS winner faction will get the ALIVE group permanently, so it's pretty much guaranteed a tourneyfag faction like Ariadna or ALEPH is going to get the ALIVE group.
Also, Combined Army players still don't have a KHD unit, and are pretty salty about that.
Justin Miller
What do I use this guy for now? He doesnt exactly fit with the new models.
Jace Barnes
Good Hunzakut
Ryan Scott
>ITS winner faction will get the ALIVE group permanently I thought the ITS winner got to choose where the ALIVE group went.
Christopher Clark
I'm so mad. They seem to have nerfed the Regular to lose the Fastpanda. What kind of stealth crap is this? That Fastpanda was cool and gave the Regulars flavor.
Xavier Morales
What?
Joseph Cruz
Ah, I see. There's a bug where the printed list doesn't have Fastpanda listed. Thought it was a Stealth Nerf.
Aaron Watson
Hey, how does the disaster that crashed the global economy and turned North America into a nanite/robot-infested Mad Max wasteland of bandits/nanite clouds/both compare to Eclipse Phase's Fall or the ME3 Reaper Invasion? Obviously, it wasn't so bad that it forced everyone off the planet and murdered billions, but I've been writing up some Donut Steels and I've been finding I've been using "pre-Fall" in some of their backgrounds.
Chase Cooper
It's really nowhere near as bad
Firstly, it was two separate events that took down the US from the world's premiere superpower
And secondly, it actually is more akin to a post-soviet eastern european shithole
The failure of the dawn mission crashed the economy and created a depression that allowed PanO to gain power, then they went to war, and nanites ate most of the west coast, making it pretty wastelandy, but the east coast and the midwest are actually unharmed if a bit impoverished by infinity standards
I would say the standard of living is comparable to the one we currently have, which is terrible compared to the rest of the universe, where even the totalitarian communistic yu jing makes its workers slave for 20ish hours a week doing minimal labor for reasonable pay
Logan Russell
I know about the nanite disaster (was it just nanites? I swear there was other shit involved in the vein of Eclipse Phase being everything the TITANs could toss at humanity), what was the other one?
Also, doesn't PanO/Yu Jing/Haqqislam still have a vested presence on Earth, even if most of their assets and treasures have been moved to new worlds? Like, I doubt Haqqislam would let Mecca and other holy sites like it that easily, nor would the more hardcore nationalists leave their countries (I could see anti-Yu Jing Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Tibetan/etc nationalists stay), on top of MUH PROPERTY bogans and rednecks in A-NZ/US.
Ariadnan CIA effort to reclaim the US as a mission and Mad Max bandits when?
Nolan Bennett
Haqq doesn't own Mecca, they just pray to it. There may be Muslim countries on Earth that are majority-Haqq in terms of religion, but the actual state of Haqqislam doesn't own anything much down there.
PanO owns a huge chunk of Earth. Australia, Indonesia, India, Europe, a lot of South America, and probably other bits of South/Southeast Asia.
Yu Jing has China and the surrounding East Asian states, maybe some of Southeast Asia too.
Mason Gonzalez
Yu Jing also owns all of Russia, IIRC?
Brody Ross
Nah, Russia's still its own country. It's not as big as it once was, but it's working on that.
Ryder Nguyen
Wonder how they view the Russians on Ariadna.
Jonathan Green
Much the same as they view the Americans
Ariadnans felt betrayed when the wormhole closed, since they believed they were abandoned
Doubly so after their "first contact" afterward with PanO was basically "oh yeah, by the way, gimme all your shit because I technically own it"
Nathaniel Hernandez
So, basically, Russia vs. the Ukraine vs. the European Union, if the Ukraine was more hostile to the EU?
Jeremiah Martinez
This would be pretty cool justifications for some skirmishes - Haqqislam versus old-school ultrafundamentalist Islamist countries (like maybe doing PanO a favor by destroying a Moro terrorist group bothering SE-Asia PanO), PanO versus butthurt EU remnants, Space Russia vs. Old Russia.
Chase Roberts
There are some Russian colonies floating about the Sol system. Don't know if they still pay heed to Russia, though, or if they do their own thing.
Ayden Sanchez
Didn't PanO and Haqqislam absorb a lot of American refugees? I know Haqqislam took in a lot of NASA personnel as thanks for the colonization mapping efforts.
James Howard
That is what they did, as far as they can without completely cutting themselves off from the rest of the Sphere. IIRC the Nomad ships cannot travel wormholes, so they have an uneasy truce with ALEPH on those. But if they found a habitable, empty planet they would probably settle down on it immediately and build their own, ALEPH free colony.
Jaxson Reyes
Those orders have to fuel *something*. PanO can't survive on Fusiliers alone, it needs some beatstick like a TAG or a Swiss.
Gabriel Parker
The difference is the dragon does not die to a simple artillery blast, while a hundred archers do. Also usually can fly.
Isaac Ramirez
>Yu Jing has China and the surrounding East Asian states, maybe some of Southeast Asia too. And the Moon.
Colton Smith
Nobody has the moon, the only proper inhabited place on it is the Free City of Tycho, which the Nomads support but everybody else is suspicious of because it's full of people hiding from the law. The rest of the place is full of abandoned colony installations that are used as pirate hideaways, counterculture dens, and military training grounds whenever PanO and YJ decide they need some low-G/vacuum combat training.
Hudson Perez
How popular is this game compared to say warmahordes or malifaux?
Andrew Morris
>that is not how agriculture works.
First you transform the minerals into a form plants can directly utilise, then you use hydroponics.
The first step might be relatively energy intentisive, so the ships might need some extra reactors.
Grayson Walker
you do know that you always put in more then you get out of it? even if all nomads were *spit* vegans the ratio is still more stuff put in the form of soil, fertilizers etc, then the stuff you take out of it. Even if you somehow had plants that you use up in 100%, the colony would still be in a perpetual state of being on the brink of starving. One broken agri block, some vegis going bad, or some sort of disease attacking it, and you would have a dead space ship, followed by riots and canibalism. nomads survive in space only by the grace of aleph.
Chase Long
Popular in europe. In my country there are groups of 15-20+ people in every larger city. And in big cities like Warsaw there is even more. I imagine it is not doing very well in GWlandia.
Michael Young
How is Poland's memeta doing? Did they came up with some brand new cheese?
