Tau Marine renegade faction

There was once a Tau thread discussing all the various elements of the Tau empire in which there were a few mentions of Astartes that willingly joined the legions of the greater good. I propose a thread wherein we discuss further the possibilities of such a faction.

I had made mention of the general qualities of the Astartes serving under the Tau. Their leader is old. Really old. Not old enough to have met a primarch or anything, but old enough, like the vast majority of their numbers to become tired of it all. Tired of the constant service to an emperor who hears not their prayers, tired of the unending centuries of war, wrapping up one campaign against a faceless, nameless enemy, only to be shipped to another planet, another war, another exterminatus.

He had grown weary some time ago, and when his ship was destroyed on the way to yet another battle, he awakened from his Sus-An sleep to find himself amongst none but the dead. Knowing not who had attacked, or how, he knew only that his brothers were dead all around him, the ship devoid of power, his hope-devoid heart accepting reality, that here, in the black of the abyss, was where it ended. And then the ship arrived.

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Xenos in origin, its very nature an abomination in his eyes, and to further compound the blasphemy, it was crewed mostly by human hands. They brought him aboard, upon condition of the surrender of his weapons, gave him a wide berth, and a choice. He could sieze command of the vessel, pilot it back to imperium space, where, if the crew were not already dead by his hand, they would certainly be killed for heresy and treason; he could go wherever he wanted, the ship could take him anywhere in known space he could desire, given enough time; or he could join them, and experience more freedom in the next year as a nameless insignificant man, than he had experienced in ten average lifetimes of imperial service.

Thus he surrendered his armor and identity as an astartes and was taken to a gue'vasa world, where he breathed his first truly free breath. No empire to order him, no weight of armor to restrain him, no weaponblade or gun to remind him. He took up the simple joy of farming, no authority, or responsibility, no victory to aspire to, no failure to be dissapointed by. Thus a year had passed.

And then they came.

Word came in late winter upon his world of friends and neighbors that a tyranid splinter was moving his way, orbital defense cannons would slow, and diminish it, but it WOULD make planetfall, and it would seek to consume all on the speck of rock he had come to call home. The Xenos that governed his world had called for reinforcements. They would arrive a day after the nemesis. 39 hours of planetary revolution would see no opposition save his human allies, their local masters, and the man himself.

The governor informed him of this and one further development: In advance of reinforcements had arrived an old friend. The capsule opened and revealed what he had once considered his very hand and will. An old friend indeed, his armor and armaments had kept him alive through countless fights, scarred, battered, but intact. Returned to him now, studied for a year by their finest scientists, repair and retrofit with their finest technologies. He would lead the fight against the menace. He would hold his speck in space. His endless war had ended, he intended to see it remain so.

Thus it was that he came to fight for what was once an insignificant faction, overlooked or butchered given the mood of the administratum on any given day. He had become the defender of his world, standing shoulder to shoulder with a new family of brothers. scavenging what relics found in the wreckage of his former caste, recovering any left for dead by the imperium.
Most chose to die rather than betray the values they held sacred. One in a thousand would choose to join him in defending those the empire, and emporer had shunned. A ruined dreadnoght rebuild into a riptide. A terminator that survived his termination. countless thousands of bodies yielded hundreds of survivors yielded dozens of the old, like he, the tired, the presumed dead who wished more than presumption, but accepted the cause of defending humanity yet more, albeit among strange and despised bedfellows.

Interesting premise but utterly lore breaking with the whole indoctrination thing Astartes go through. Also mentioning some who survived being executed is stupid because they'd rip their geneseed out and there'd be no chance in hell they'd let them live.

This. Even renegade astartes don't like xenos. Hell, even chaos space marines hate xenos. A well meaning space marine chapter can hate the Imperium (it goes against the Emperor's vision aftee all), but then they'd try to reform it. Which still means a hardline stance against humanity being under rule from any other species.

I had envisioned them as yet xenophobic, but not outright murderous upon sight. The "emperor's bastards", chapter as I envisioned them, would garrison themselves on guevasa worlds primarily home to human former imperial citizens, their maintenance performed by their charges. They are given access to the technologies of the tau, whatever is scavenged by space wreckage, and whatever is found on the worlds they claim, as most Tau consider imperium tech too backwards for their use. Whatever damage is inflicted upon their equipment or persons are healed and repaired with imperium scavenged tech where available, and Tau components where required.

>"Hate the alien as you hate the heretic, as you hate the unbeliever. For what right have they to live, they who are other?"
-Kor Phaeron, Black Cardinal of the Word Bearers

Space Marines do not join xenos. They hate xenos. They kill xenos. They were literally created with the sole purpose of wiping out everything in the galaxy that isn't human. Even selling your soul to daemon gods isn't enough to get rid of that hatred.

In other words, get purged.

Its a hell of a lot more plausible than space marines going to, you know, Chaos. These guys are only slightly askew from regular marines, whereas most CSM are completely so.

And before you say "well Chaos is supernaturaly seductive," the Chaos codex makes it clear that in many cases, a CSM became perverted, shiftless, self serving, etc. long before Chaos showed up.

Word Bearers aren't the standard of all renegades. Its kind of a minor fluff thing, only mentioned for a few renegade SM, and mostly Veeky Forums headcanon.

>implying.

Iskandor Khayon viewed a Dark Eldar Scourge as his blood sister. He loved her as kin. When she was assassinated by Dark Eldar Kabal, his grief was so much that it moved abaddon to launch a crusade on the Dark City to destroy the Kabal that took her from him.

Pretty much every CSM PoV I can recall in a Black Library novel treats xenos with absolute contempt.

Read Talon of Horus then.

Exactly. Furthermore, the Tau and Imperium have a strange relationship. If one stays in its proper place then the other will not strike, and furthermore they have aided each other numerous times.

I envisioned these marines as being a clandestine order, spoken of only in rumors, and never directly combating the empire, and leaving no witnesses to their deeds.

The level of surprise anyone should have that CSM don't like much of... anything should approach 0%.

Guilliman-Tau alliance is coming. You know it.

I'd be down. The emperor's bastards could use a primarch.

I'm pretty sure the Emperor allowed xenos that presented no threat in his Imperium as protectorates. The whole kill all xenos doctrine was adopted later, a perversion of the original orders.

Nope. See the Iron Hands and Emperor's Children wiping out the Disaporax. Only the human members were offered a chance of living in the Imperium, the aliens got nothing. When they refused, the Space Marines killed them all.

Name an example.

The Great Crusade was explicitly made to unite mankind and kill the alien that had abused humanity in its darkest times, this idea that the imperium was once a nice place full of tolerance is fucking retarded and false.

I like it, keep writing more if you're up for it

Chaos is a darkening of the soul. It grows and feeds upon emotion and human nature in general. Astartes indoctrination slows it more than say, an average Guardsman, but it literally uses you against you. No living thing with a soul is immune to it and it is not remotely the same as an ideology or philosophical shift.

There plenty of canon instances of marines leaving the Imperium without turning to Chaos, so this seems quite feasible.

They did, indeed, genocide dangerous xenos and those that refused to bent the knee. However, I'm sure the Kill All Xenos is a later policy.

So name an example.

The opening of Fulgrim involves the crusade command staff talking about maybe making the Laer a protectorate of the Imperium to save the resources that would be involved in crushing them, which implies that the option exists to be considered? Not that user but other than that idk.

Eldar.

Sure, why not?

The emperor's bastards serve only in the capacity of defending human civilians. They respect the concept of the greater good to the extent that they will accept superior armaments, allies willing to fight alongside them, and ships/facilities necessary to carry out their newly assumed duties. These duties, on the other hand, are not endless, and they enjoy a fair bit of social time. It is not at all uncommon for them to set down their weapons at the day's end, and enjoy a slice of pie with the grateful citizens of whatever planet they're on. Unlike the people of the imperium, who view the astartes as the will of god made flesh, or the hand of the inquisition waiting to happen, gue'vasa see these men as just that - men. In need of the love and support of the people whom they support and love. There are no serfs among them, no fledglings. The youngest of their number is nearing his second century, their eldest (Brother August, the riptide-nought) nears his first millenium. They do not hail from any one chapter, they are individuals, be they the abandoned, who were left behind when too badly injured to continue, the weary, like their leader, or the disgraced. Blackshields make a large number of them. The wealth of knowledge and experience among them is their greatest attribute. Between a squad there are few if any situations one of them has not encountered, and so very few surprises ever await them. The vast majority of plans are formed between them starting with the words "remember the battle of _____?" and goes from there. Naturally they all have some wonderful war stories to tell around campfire, which they gladly share with the people they protect.

I'm liking it.

Yeah sure, indoctrination whatever. Recall just how many space marine chapters there are out there and ask yourself if it's really impossible that 300 or so of then over a thousand years walked off to farm on a xeno planet somewhere.

Now them all joining the Tau, a basically insignificant minor faction? I mean, I guess...


Take my opinion with a handful of salt. I'm one of those people who wants to see Ork refugee districts in Imperial hives.

As mentioned, their facilities, transports, and equipment are either provided by the Tau, scavenged from wreckage, or battlefields picked clean in their wake, but their maintenance, repairs, upgrades, and upkeep are all handled by human hands, though they are closely observed by the Tau governors of whatever world they happen to be visiting. In battle, they tend to stick close to the nearest battlesuit, providing close to mid range combat support. This allows them to fill a pivotal role on the battlefield: Their Tau allies are more experienced with the superior ranged weapons provided to them, but when bolter shells run out and fusion cannons are overrun by whatever godforsaken monstrosity the 'nids have birthed this time, they are prepared to bring swords to bear.

My main objection isn't so much whether marines could act like this, but rather whether the Tau would tolerate them running around unsupervised in their space.

okay, but you got the order of operation wrong: the CSM codex is very clear about how usually they go to Chaos as a result of degenerating into immoral freakjobs, rather than the reverse.

Its "normal" for space marines to respect tau. Its not normal for space marines to become shiftless, amoral douchebags, yet tons and tons of SM become that on the way to becoming CSM. The CSM codex is clear about how they tend to go to the Chaos Gods as one final thrill etc.

The distance from SM to CSM is about a trillion types farther than this guy's taumarines. Not that I approve int he slightest of Donut Steel shit like Riptide-Dreadnoughts.

>I'm one of those people who wants to see Ork refugee districts in Imperial hives.

That doesn't strike me as more freakishly unnatural than, say, the Opposite Day nature of Diggerpersons and The Beast's Ork Diplomats, and more interesting than (no offense) another SM chapter.

Are these ironic political commentary refugees or...?

>not that orks aren't used for ironic political commentary

They are closely watched and never leave Tau space. Any world with a human population that is the target of an attack will hear from them shortly afterward. Of course the Tau keep a close eye on them, they provide all of the chapter's ships, ammunition, upgrade components, and train the people who install it. Brother August suspects there isn't a single component outside his sarcophagus that isn't lojacked.

>who were left behind when too badly injured to continue

Given the Emperor's Mercy and geneseed reclaimed from their corpse

>The weary

Purged for heresy since Astartes are now watched closely since the whole Horus Heresy thing.

>Or the disgraced

Removed from active service and shoved into clerical work if not just outright geneseed removal and converted to a servitor.

>Yeah sure, indoctrination whatever. Recall just how many space marine chapters there are out there and ask yourself if it's really impossible that 300 or so of then over a thousand years walked off to farm on a xeno planet somewhere.

Yeah because the first hint of such behavior would be seen as heresy and either sent for reconditioning or purged in one manner or another.


Learn the way things actually work with the Astartes before trying to bastardize the lore for a neat idea. Trying to present this to anyone these are the things you'll have to explain and debate, learn to do it instead of just hand waving it.

The Imperium has literally no mechanism to watch Astartes that closely. So...

>Learn the way things actually work with the Astartes before trying to bastardize the lore for a neat idea.

Eh, It's just a break from the usual grimdark of it all. Besides, like this user said,

> Recall just how many space marine chapters there are out there and ask yourself if it's really impossible that 300 or so of then over a thousand years walked off to farm on a xeno planet somewhere.


There are trillions of humans. Of those, millions become astartes, on a yearly basis across imperium space. Of those, hundreds of thousands die on a year by year. Of those presumed dead, you think it's absolutely impossible for hundreds to have survived and just gotten sick of it over the centuries? Conditioning or not, every man has his breaking point, not every man turns to chaos, and the Tau are generally seen as optimistic fools by most in the universe that consider them for more than two seconds.

>What are chaplains
>What is indocrtonation of everyone around you who would report you
>What is the Inquisition

Please, it's a cool idea but the reasons these people have joined are going to get you nothing but scorn and laughed at.

You have to take into account a more solid reason than scenarios that would literally play out in the Marines death and their geneseed being reclaimed.

Yeah, nobody watches astartes. It isn't like fellow space marines watch each other because they know about chaos. And there isn't the Minotaurs which is exclusively used against renegage astartes groups. And the inquisition and grey knights never watch space marines for signs of heresy, nor do the admech watch them due to their techmarine plants to ensure tech heresy never becomes a thing.

Do you even know anything about 40k lore? Chaos corruption is vastly more reasonable to happen than marines joining xenos. As shown before, 99% of the time even chaos hates them and renegage chapters as well.

Because chaos will prey on normal things to slowly bring you to their side and corrupt you slowly until you wake up one day and realize you became a pawn and went down a bad path.

To join the Tau means rejecting pretty much everything and is a far more radical shift. Because then you aren't fighting for human supremacy, your own, or even misguided in thinking the chaos gods are good and fighting for them. You're basically going "yeah, I'll be a vassal to a xenos species, one which is tinier than a single sector of imperial space". Nobody would fucking do that. Even the Tau have to sterilize and brainwash regular humans in their space and avoid putting them on fronts with other humans to keep them under control, but a space marine would willingly bow down? Lol, Jesus fucking Christ.

Tau fanboyism at its finest here. And mixed with spess marine fanboy autism. This is some high octane stupidity.

>Of those presumed dead, you think it's absolutely impossible for hundreds to have survived

With the every chapter being overly anal about reclaiming geneseed there are few to no scenarios where they wouldn't search the battlefield for every last one.

The few there are means they lost and everyone left is fucked.

I like the idea but you guys need to make it more iron clad and have slightly better reasoning on how they came to the Tau.

Skeptical about the marines commonly tattling people to the Inquisition.

>but the reasons these people have joined are going to get you nothing but scorn and laughed at.

No idea why you think I'd care whether you think OP's probable-troll post will get him hypothetical-laughter-and-scorn. I'm just here to heap my own laughter-and-scorn at the notion of marines... what? Tattling to the Inquisition's space telephone hotline?

I suppose that's plausible (need to get at the astropaths for that though, that's probably why the librarian tends to be the weak spot, but could be a good justification for why Chaos renegades are the most common type), but keep in mind I was responding to a goofy ass post about how "the Imperium watches space marines carefully."

They don't have any means of "watching space marines carefully," better than through a fucking telescope.

Diasporax. Perfectly harmless human and alien space nomads. The Imperium offered to resettle the humans if they cut ties with their alien buddies. When they said no, all were killed.

There is no mercy for the xenos scum.

Don't bother. The thought process that went into this was essentially:

>Hmmmmm. I'm a big weeb and anime fan, but I also have homoerotic fantasies about big muscle men in armor. If only there was a way to combine my love of anime and my love of big space marine cock...

Daily reminder that Eldar didn't seek to wipe out non-Eldar life in the galaxy. Eldar best galactic rulers. Tens of millions of years of success before faltering. Humans have 10,000 years of limping and barely holding shit together. Shameful.

Dude, there's no point in arguing. The Tau are a faction for 40k players who don't like 40k.

Well, all those precautions demonstrably don't prevent some marines from defecting to Chaos, so why not xenos too? It's entirely within the realm of possibility.

>Yeah, nobody watches astartes.

The Imperium sure as hell doesn't, and I'm laughing at the idea. Any sort of "watching" the Imperium performs on space marines is going to almost certainly be a one-off Inquisition gizmo or ploy.

The closest it gets is... the Imperium can watch the Space Marines through the Admech through the Techmarines. So... virtually impossible.

>Do you even know anything about 40k lore

More than the idiot who thought "the Imperium watches Space Marines closely." Even to say "the Imperium watches Space Marines" is a stretch. The closest you can say is "the Imperium can, in a very clumsy, uncomfortable way, arrange for Space Marines to be watched, through several degrees of separation."

>Because chaos will prey on normal things to slowly bring you to their side and corrupt you slowly until you wake up one day and realize you became a pawn and went down a bad path.

Space Marines become feckless amoral hedonists and raiders all the time without benefit of Chaos, and that is an order of magnitude greater radical shift than them deciding to work for Xenos.

Then again, most Xenos are not remotely silver tongued or diplomatic (Tau are), most Xenos are not inclined to recruit (Tau are), most Xenos are not well supplied or gizmo-inclined enough to help support Astartes (Tau are), most Xenos are not remotely respectable enough that Astartes would vouch for their honor (Tau are), and most Xenos do not share both a totally compatible ethos as well as a directly analogous social caste to astarte (Tau do).

>or even misguided in thinking the chaos gods are good and fighting for them.

It is very rare for anything, even written from the Chaos point of view, to suggest that the CSM think that Chaos is "good" for humans. They may think its "good" for... themselves, but generally CSM totally reject even the faintest shred of their former beliefs.

Actually, the thought process was that I find 40k to be very depressing, the Tau being the least depressing aspect of it, and I could see anyone living in such a setting to simply grow tired of it, especially after centuries of monotonous battles. I imagined that any marine who joined up as a child to serve his people and his emperor as a youth would find himself resenting them, and his eternal hell of a life, given enough time.

>the lure that chaos holds over an individual, a psychic race, and descendents of an arguably very warp based creation (primarchs) is comparable to the temptations of the Tau

Okay, so this is basically more Tau fanwank of the highest order. And in total ignorance of how 40k works.

(con't)

>Even the Tau have to sterilize and brainwash regular humans in their space

You're citing third party canon and bitching about other people's perspective on 40k? C'mon.

>You're basically going "yeah, I'll be a vassal to a xenos species, one which is tinier than a single sector of imperial space". Nobody would fucking do that.

They're still huge in comparison to the amount of SM around, of course, and have plenty of resources to offer. These guys have fuckin' rad tech.

>This is some high octane stupidity.

Sorry that people are triggering you.

Space Marines are plenty anime as is.

Except your entire point falls apart because space marines watch other space marines. And parent chapters often watch the chapters that split off from them. Space marines may be separate from the Imperium at large, but not to each other. And guess where 99% of space marine loyalty lies? To the Emperor above all, and then the Imperium. Guess who's gonna know if a chapter or marine goes rogue?

Furthermore, "vassal to a xenos species" comes with no standard daily chapter rituals, prayers etc, you may or may not go back to being a simple farmer when you're at peace, and are granted virtual autonomy by the government.

Daily reminder: There is no inquisition or even a similar organization among the Tau.

You've made your opinion clear and can move on now, user. You won't enjoy this thread and its premise much so there is no need for you to stay.

>Except your entire point falls apart because space marines watch other space marines

Not at all. I'm just calling bullshit on the idea that the Imperium "watches" space marines. Internally is another story.

I don't really know what the point of these guys is mechanically, since if they have riptide dreadnoughts, they're going to be more like tau mechanically than SM.

So if I wanted humans with tau tech, I would simply have a tau ethereal doing a limited, highly supervised, field test of gue'vesa with fancier gear than they usually have. Even a human using a riptide is plausible, even if and especially you have a low view of tau, due to the fact that riptides give you cancer.

Tau tech is not comparable to space marine tech. The Tau are advanced, but the admech has forgotten more than the Tau know. The maintenance of a space marine both on a genetic level and tech level would be all but impossible. It is so complex that space marines need techmarines and chaplains who handle all of this shit and have to always be on alert for issues with the technology, geneseed mutations, and various other shit. Space marine upkeep isn't easy. It's a genetically and technologically altered superhuman made using tech that nobody since Corax has had access to, not even the Imperium. The Tau can barely comprehend the warp, but you want them to maintain fucking space marines.

>The laser focus on one point

It's funny you think you had a point, the problem is the chapters tattle to their superiors and handle shit in house when ever possible. Other chapters might tattle to the Inquisition because they have no authority over the other chapter.

Then there's the whole Inquisition watches people and chapters tend to be something worth watching for corruption. Keep trying eventually you'll figure out how to not be retarded.

Also

SMs only know those things. You think they'd run off to plow a field when their entire biology is built around war? He can never have a family, he'd outlive any normal humans/Tau by centuries, etc. He could never go off and have a normal life.

A corpse in a sarcophagus doesn't care about cancer at that point.

The main mechanical function they would service would be to have SM with superior ranged capabilities, albeit with less accuracy the further out you get, dreadnoughts with similar features, or you could think of them as Tau foot soldiers with enhanced armor.

>The Tau are advanced, but the admech has forgotten more than the Tau know.

Sure, but I'm mostly talking about put dirt into box->receive gun, and the tau have to put restrictors on their DirtGunBoxes when they give to human helpers. So obviously that stuff is pretty rad.

As the guy has an interest in stuff that replaces your stat line anyway I don't see much point. On the other hand, raving hobos in the wilderness seem to be able to maintain space marines, so who knows.

That's why the numbers of a chapter serving Tau would dwindle over time, and after some centuries would consist mostly of non altered human recruits with maybe a handful of veterans training them. It would force them to adapt their tactics and equipment, probably using more Tau auxiliary tech.

...which is why Space Wolves are being kept on a short leash and are not borderline heretical at all?

You seem a bit confused. Nobody is denying space marines can watch space marines for badness. The weak point in the storyline is indeed space marines, from who would stop it (space marines), to the fact that these people being space marines is so superfluous due to tau tech that the only point of adding space marines to tau stuff is probably to troll.

>the whole Inquisition watches people and chapters

Ok, but any Inquisition monitoring of an Astartes chapter is pretty much a unique gimmick or gizmo.

>It is very rare for anything, even written from the Chaos point of view, to suggest that the CSM think that Chaos is "good" for humans.

>retarded Tau cunt talks shit
>one single image blows him out

Toppest of keks. Did everyone forget the fucking heresy was started exactly because Lorgar saw them as the true gods?

Of course. Because Tau fans are ignorant weeb who know fuck all about the lore besides OMG JAPANESE BIG HUGE MECHS! Cunts.

Yeah, the Word Bearers are a bit of an odd duck in that and many other ways, including that I have seen them touted as the only Legion that works as a coherent thing anymore.

Even so, Word Bearers making any case that Chaos is "good" for humanity is still pretty uncommon, and tends to be borderline nonexistent for other CSM.

1 legion very VERY rarely thinking that Chaos is genuinely best for humanity doesn't disprove the fact that its very rare for CSM to even pretend Chaos is best for humans, and certainly doesn't blow anything out.

Yet are still fiercely loyal to the Emperor funny isn't it, also interesting to note how other chapters watch them because they fear they will go full chaos. Hell some are chomping at the bit to put them down.

>Entire organizations job is watching for corruption
>Unique gimmick or gizmo

There's are reasons the chapters hate the Inquisition, mostly because the Inquisition sticks its nose into chapter business whenever they feel like it. Which is a big no no in the eyes of the chapters.

Also this rolls back to the indoctrination to fanatic levels of brain washing. You can have one or two start to question, but anyone notices and it's off to have a talk and be saved one way or another.

Either way been fun enjoy your guy's Tau wank fantasy, hopefully you come up with solid reasons.

>Tau fags aren't happy with their own op shit
>Want to steal the op shit from other species too

Can't wait for some Necron lychguard to recognise the inherent superiority of the Greater Good too!

>>Entire organizations job is watching for corruption

That's their job (watching the whole Imperium for corruption) but the best the Inquisition has for monitoring SM for corruption is:

1. Geneseed (shit tier)
2. Hope there's a whistleblower (shit tier)
3. Go through the Admech (the Techmarine and his contacts in the Admech can probably figure out it out the same without them, so shit tier).

All of the methods the Inquisition has for monitoring the space marines are fucking terrible and depend on, basically, marines doing their job on their own.

> hopefully you come up with solid reasons.

Ok. SM don't need things like "reasons" to do a 180 on their entire personality (selfless servant to totally amoral space pirate that eventually winds up with Chaos), and his reasons certainly make at least an average amount of sense.

You lost. Click on /gif/, observe a hotglue thread, have a wank, and go to bed.

youtube.com/watch?v=NxlrGDuk50o

>word bearers kick off the heresy and sre the embodiment of chaos undivided

>all nurgle factions think chaos is best due to life being shit and it all has to die so it is best for all life

>tzeentch followers believe chaos is best due to knowledge and magic, but can be backstabbers

>slaaneshi cultists think it's best to pursue perfection and extremes

>khornate cultists see it as best for survival of the fittest

>omg chaos doesnt think chaos is best

You can feel free to fuck off and go read the lore at any time. Even if you want to say that the god specific factions don't think chaos is best for humanity, all of chaos undivided sure does. Even Abaddon since he wants to rule over a chaos imperium.

At least you tried, bro.

>You can feel free to fuck off and go read the lore at any time.

I don't suppose you can find *any* fluff for the Death Guard, Thousand Sons (other than Ahriman, who is openly defiant against Tzeentch), and the Emperor's Children claiming that what they do to people is good in any way? Mister "go read the lore," why don't you start.

Its a fine ASSUMPTION to think that CSM think they are somehow justified, but most Chaos quotes paint them as knowingly having no moral justification, even from their perspective.

>Even Abaddon since he wants to rule over a chaos imperium.

Its unclear at best what Abbadon wants. From the Black Legion supplement, based off the vision he receives of the future, he seems to want all humanity to die/be tortured forever and know perfectly well that Chaos is objectively bad for humans, and be working towards the destruction of his own species.

He's a rare bird in that he knows fully well submitting to Chaos is terrible *and that's why he doesn't want to do it*. He seemingly has no problem seeing all mankind exterminated, though perhaps he plans a double cross at the last minute.

Due to shitty writing. The entire fucking ideology behind chaos undivided is exclusively based on Lorgar's writings about how chaos was the true pantheon of gods after he became disillusioned when the Emperor punished him and he set off on that spirit journey to find the truth. And that what humans saw as chaos is actually good, and the only reason the Eldar and other species fell is for not being enlightened enough to accept them.

And even in your own example The Thousand Sons sure think they're in the right. Death Guard too, if only because, as I said, they think life is suffering and basically became militant Buddhists except with no reincarnation. As for Slaanesh, they do see chaos as best because that was why Fulgrim joined at all. He saw the pursuit of perfection as best. Maybe now his legion is a bunch of egotistical hedonists who put the DE to shame, but their original reason for fighting was to become more and more perfect.

>Due to shitty writing.

Sort of, but even that's not clear. Many people go "Oh, well 40k is just WHFB in space," but CSM and CW, despite aesthetic similarities, aren't all that analogous -- the two coexisted briefly (1e and 2e), and even CW without obvious mutations are fucking weird altogether; they don't seem to need sustenance, and more importantly, forget their former existences (or at least some lore claims that). They also are tremendously tough compared to a normal person, while CSM don't seem implied to be that physically changed from SM at all. Kinda more like Chaos Marauder analogs to SM.

>millions become astartes, on a yearly basis across imperium space. Of those, hundreds of thousands die on a year by year
The traditional estimate is a thousand chapters of a thousand marines.

That rather ignores the fact that the entire Astartes world view is about serving the Emperor by battling humanity's enemies. It's not an "eternal hell" to them, it's their life's work.

>he awakened from his Sus-An sleep to find himself amongst none but the dead

Can only be done by an apothecary. They don't auto-revive from that.

>No empire to order him, no weight of armor to restrain him, no weaponblade or gun to remind him. He took up the simple joy of farming, no authority, or responsibility, no victory to aspire to, no failure to be dissapointed by. Thus a year had passed.

Astartes are brainwashed as shit. Even Chaos marines still live essentially monastic lifestyles dedicated to war. When the first Emperor's Children fell to Slaanesh and became hedonists, while all the mortals around them were fucking or mutilating themselves, the Children just started slaughtering everything around them because they have no other emotional outlet.

All they're capable of anymore is warfare, everything else is stripped from them, particularly post-Heresy marines who are even more brainwashed than the pre-Heresy ones. Astartes are about as capable of retiring to start a farm as a Earthshaker cannon is.

While there is no shortage of renegade marines in general, Tau and the Imperium only interact on a few narrow fronts in small part of the galaxy. Which greatly limits the chances of conversion.

The most likely way space marines could work for/with Tau as an organized unit is if an entire detachment changed sides at once. For example after being put into a no-win situation by their superiors - which is how many renegade warbands get their start.

They would also be priority targets for the Deathwatch, no matter if they wanted to fight the Imperium or not.

So basically if Huron Blackheart can have hundreds of renegades then Tau might have a few dozen at most.


And on a related note: would mindshackle scarabs work on astartes?

>mostly Veeky Forums headcanon
Don't beat around the bush, it's entirely Veeky Forums headcanon.

Renegade space marines are all about their own freedom from the shackles of an empire that used them as weapons. Having them go right into supporting and working for another exploitative empire is backwards. The fact that the empire in question is an alien one makes it all the more ridiculous a concept.

>And on a related note: would mindshackle scarabs work on astartes?
yep

Forcible control like that is the only way to really get marines working under aliens. There are scattered examples of extreme parasitic infection also working, though the name of the species escapes me right now.

>would mindshackle scarabs work on astartes?

Yeah, from the crunch and fluff-wise, they're basically nanites directly interfacing with the victim's nervous system to control them like a puppet.

Against less advanced nano-tech, the marine's immune system might be able to kill the nanites eventually but I reckon living metal can take whatever super-white blood cells throw at it.

No. Just no.

Fuck off.

A few dozen Space Marines would also mean a complete lack of infrastructure to maintain their equipment.

So after a few months of combat, those Space Marines would just end up as really tall bulky humans.

Because they'd no longer have bolters, chainswords and CERTAINLY no power armour.

I could see the arguement of why you think the jump from SM to CSM is extreem, but your forgetting that every human in the galaxy firmly believe in the superiority of humanity and will only team up with Xenos if its a no win situation and teaming up with xenos is the only option for survival

im sorry but i just got trigger by "Susan sleep"

>Getting upset over the Susan membrane

I bet Lionel Johnson and Eldar calling you a monkey upsets you too.

>raving hobos in the wilderness seem to be able to maintain space marines
?

Even if you ignore the problems with the mechanical, biomechanical and organic upkeep of Space Marines...
>no more chaplain preaching daily
>no more psychoconditioning
>no more librarian checking their mind regularly

Yeah, that's asking for Chaos to fuck you in the ass.

Don't renegade marines generally fall to chaos because they find themselves without another influence but themselves? It's not a stretch to think a renegade marine surrounded by another xenos species "accepting" enough like the Tau to give them an alternate purpose would actually accept it.

Life is full of suffering. You work, can raise an ungrateful family, the wife can nag, the neighbors can be cunts and all that jazz but so long as its for a purpose, people can handle it. It's only when there's no purpose does suffering turn into despair.

Marines may be far removed from being ordinary humans, but it's a trait intrinsic to humanity. Even the Emperor and the Primarchs suffered from rage, jealousy, arrogance, pride and all that. So a marine can theoretically be saved from despair/turning to chaos by being given an alternate purpose. Not everyone who gets bullied decides to shoot up a school. Some become counselors to help others who experience it.

Don't think I could see a chapter go full on serving the greater good, but I could see one trading with tau for their tech or knowledge especially if that chapter was one that loves technology. Maybe an iron hands successor.

The problem isn't just with the marines joining tau because their marine sensibilities wouldn't allow it. It's also a problem of the tau accepting marines as allies for the long term. Short term allies maybe. I just don't see the tau being able to stomach the marine's brutal nature. Maybe in desperate battles they would ally, but I don't think the tau would allow it.

That isn't even looking it from the marine's perspective on things. The tau are generally pretty controlling of their allies and I doubt the marines who betray the imperium are in for that kind of servitude too.

Kroot eat their own dead, I doubt the Tau would have an issue with marines simply due to their warlike natures.

i do get very mad

>People still don't grasp the concept of Your Dudes
Hell, there could be a SM who got brain damage while fighting Orks and joined them. The Orks find it funny how this now green painted Marine tries to be as orky as he can.

Renegade Marines fall to Chaos because there's no one keeping the voices of Chaos away.

Ever since the Horus Heresy began, Chaos is trying to convert EVERY Space Marine to Chaos.

That's why Space Marines have all those checks and balances in place to prevent them from going renegade, heretic or traitor.

Did you REALLY think Chaos would just ~stop~ trying to recruit a renegade Space Marine because he's working with Tau now? If only, it would only make it easier, because the Tau have no concept of Chaos or the Warp!

>what's with the eight-pointed star?
>oh, that's just something i made up myself. it looks cool right?

>dear diary, the space marine is integrating very well into the greater good! he's even begun repainting his armour in creative new ways!

You have a point but I maintain that a purpose is fairly universal. Chaos seduces with promises of power, belonging, vengeance etc. Faith in what you believe in has been proven to keep you from going rogue. Eldar in their Craftworldy beliefs. Tau in the Greater Good, Imperials in the Creed so on and so forth. Why is it difficult to entertain the idea that a marine (let's say f.ex from one of the legions that protects civilian life) would see the Imperium consistently betray that belief and gains respect and belief in the Tau philosophy because they actually do try and protect as oppose to leave their own guys for dead?

>Why is it difficult to entertain the idea that a marine (let's say f.ex from one of the legions that protects civilian life) would see the Imperium consistently betray that belief and gains respect and belief in the Tau philosophy because they actually do try and protect as oppose to leave their own guys for dead?
Because Space Marines don't fight for the Imperium.

They fight for the Emperor.

Remember, Space Marines aren't part of the Imperium. They're an independent military force that operates only under command of the Emperor. Given how the Emperor is comatose, that means they do their own thing.

This.

Reminder that people are okay with Space Marines joining a force that is actively attempting, at this very moment, to wipe out the Imperium of Man and this is totally fine despite the indoctrination, the hatred, etc..
Meanwhile Marines joining a force that is NOT attempting, at this very moment, to wipe out the Imperium of Man is insanity and makes no sense because a Marine would never go against the Imperium like that.

Actually, Chaos wants to keep the Imperium of Man intact. They just want to exchange the Emperor with Horus.

The Horus Heresy was a civil war, you fucking mongoloid.