Horus Heresy General /hhg/

inb4 adb hateposting

inb4 hate adbposting

So I'm redesigning that list without the second Templar squad, and with the extra 90 or so points I put some power weapons in my vet squads. Is this a good idea? Power swords/axes make a as a good charge deterrent as anything, but at the same time I doubt it'll be all that effective. Ideas?

inb4 posting adbhate

It's simple. Nothing bad ever happened in 30k when it was just resin, ergo everything bad came to it because of plastic 30k kits.

All the robutts are resin tho

GOSH DO I HATE ADB.

Doesn't matter, there's plastic 30k Marines, so 30k is shit now.

A hidden (i.e. not on the sergeant) axe or two can help, but you may be overspending on them, with combiweapons & powerweapons and so on when you don't even have full squads. Don't forget, 10 IF marksmen vets with just bolters are still pretty darn effective. Most people only put combiweapons on every model when they intend the unit as a suicide team (drop in, kill something costing more than them, die). So, what role do you actually have in mind for those two squads?

I blame ADB.

As are quad-mortars and Spartans, which I would argue are considerably less fun than the tac blob lists that Calth and Prospero encourage

Also, why are boops considered cancer? They have very little dakka or choppy for cost, honestly, and they're predictable and easily tarpitted since they can't Sweeping advance. I play Reductor, but the Vorax I like to use tend to be gunned down fairly easily.

>PotL lists that Calth and Prospero encourage

FTFY

>Chosen Duty lists that Calth and Prospero encourage

FTFY

Joking aside, I don't think plastic marines are the main cause of vet spam, I honestly think the red book is. Vets are so damn economical for what you get, and tacs are so pants at anything not standing on an objective getting shot in the face, that it's not a surprise people swap out their tacs for vets.

ADB A SHIT

>Presumably IW and IH, but who else?
Kek. IW Legion Inductees gives nothing to the bots, since they're already Fearless and lack meltabombs. It's weird how Narik Dreygur functions better as a Sallie mind-slave than as a regular IW legionnaire.
Best robbuts is like asking for best LA rules. Not only it's asking what is the best combination of ranged, melee and positioning, but it's more about what you want. If you want "best" then play Memestodes or something like that.

My thought with the vets was to either give them sniper/tank hunters based off what I'm going against,

For the combiguns, I just figured melta would be good, though plasma/flamer could be fun too (that sillyass sniper-flame thing is hilarious imo). IDK of maybe it's better to do all power weapons with a few combis, or all combis with a few weapons, or just base, or somewhere in between

Well, that is what you can get out of the box, but I don't think making it possible to get lots of marines cheaply is going to exactly discourage the builds that use lots of Marines. Vets are just too good for cost.

>I honestly think the red book is. Vets are so damn economical for what you get, and tacs are so pants at anything not standing on an objective getting shot in the face, that it's not a surprise people swap out their tacs for vets.
Agreed. Tacticals aren't even the best at holding points, that's a job mortals do better (36" Lasrifles of rerollable Ld10, 50 Stubborn/Fearless Levies or Fearless+FnP+Revival thralls). Bolters just don't cut it, despoilers are pretty much assault marines on foot, and the biggest offender is that the only squads that matter, 20-man ones, need an attached Elites/Fast/Heavy option to be viable, lest they're shot off the squad by the AP3+ artillery the Ispace Gstartes are known for.

Meanwhile, Veterans are tacticals that only cost +15pts when compared to a similarly equipped tactical squad, swap Fury of the Legion for Sniper & Outflank / Machine killers and have access to power and special weapons, and don't need a huge transport or apothecary to be able to reach the enemy.

Who wouldn't want them?
This is FW's fault, and they will NEVER fix it. Not even 8E will, mark my words.

EC-dude here. I've been working mostly with Calth sets because MkIV marines, but I was able to pick up a box of Tartaros termies for $40. Should I go full lightning claw with them, or kit them out slightly different?

>If you want "best" then play Memestodes or something like that.
That's a fair point - I think Bio-Corrosive Vorax would be cool in DG - don't know if it'd be all that good, but I can never resist an opportunity for chem/bio weapons

Going by the cool factor, now that's something I can comment on. DG really up the biochem scope of their weaponry.
Battle Automata gain a FnP against poison on top of their rerolling of poison damage. Bio-corrosive rounds will mean you can only shoot prior to the assault, but Vorax' Scout is a good complement to the slow DG in the Reaping. Give the Praevian rad grenades and Vorax S6 will scythe the enemy.

Also also, you can stick an apothecary with a vet squad and still fit them in a rhino, if you want objective campers.

Why does Hvarl Red-Blade have a heavy bolter if he's in tartaros armour?

Why does Polux have a storm shield when he's in power armour?
Special characters do what they will and generics suffer what they must.

Rule of cool.
Also maybe a reference to the 3rd Edition wolf codex where Wolf Guard Battle Leaders could take heavy weapons.

Full Lightning Claw is certainly going to make a dent in something with all those attacks, but you may want to include some fists to prevent them from getting bogged down by dreadnoughts and the like.

The man speaks truth, although I'll admit we Mech generics have it better than most.

they traitors right?

How does three claws and two chainfists together with flamer and plasma blaster sound?

So maybe 3 2xLC 2 PF? I'm planning on using my Tartaros more for infantry CC mulching, while I have my Cataphractii outfitted with chainfists for armor killing (2nd squad being built, 5 powerfists so I can mix and match the two).

Also, is it worthwhile giving one of the Tartaros an autocannon, or should I stick to combi-bolters?

Besides Scoria, your characters (all three :^)) give up something, so no not really.
Satarael has a Djinn Skein and is an Archimandrite but with a worse-than-Angron save of 3+ and no real invuln. Even Kastellans have a better invuln than him.
Decima get his scrapcode scream and EW, but has shit stats and can't get a 3++ like generic characters, and corrupted his force with his anger despite lacking a Djinn-skein. He's only good for suicide drops and the Droplites are better at it.
And Draykavac's former job was to be a Scoria, so now nobody even thinks of him.

Only loyalists here my dude.

When you think the death guard will be slow, but then their asshole captain scouts out of fucking nowhere (did mortarion teach him that) with his fucking bug robots and now you're going down in a hail of radiation and bio-acid bullets

From now on you're the Honour of your Legion. Carry that with you wherever you go.

F
Never Forget Isstvan

you the guy with the tumbler?

whats with all the loyalist EC doesnt anyone want to seek perfection through ecstacy
>all hail slaanesh/fulgrim
also Ideas for traitor marines like conversions i've added some flayed skin to some marines what else would show they are traitors

>Carry that with you wherever you go.
First stop, Isstvan III. Future tour dates cancelled.

Ah, fair point. I'm trying to decide whether Xander uses the rules of a generic Archimandrite or Satarael. Archimandrite is tougher and doesn't waste points on Cybernetica bonuses, but Satarael is more on theme with his teleport trick and lets me bring those bane-mask bio-Castellax as an honour guard.

>whats with all the loyalist EC doesnt anyone want to seek perfection through ecstacy
GLORY IS LOYALTY PERFECTED
One thing is the completely understandable pursuit of perfection, and other is the unhealthy obsession with it. Ideals may deal in absolutes, but execution must never deal in extremes.
>Ideas for traitor marines
For ECs? Grills, faces, xenos blades (even if they're not traitors). Medals stitched on flayed skin.

You're only allowed 1 special weapon, unless you're going for a 10-man squad.
Or did you mean a Combi-flamer?

something like that yes, the fists are purely there to kill stuff that's too hard for your LCs.

yeah good idea. I may be the only Traitor EC cause no one likes depraved perfectionists or slaanesh in general, but I think the themes are a beautiful drama and I love fulgrim.

I love this bit of lore.

are you?

Wew my bad I should sleep more. I meant a heavy flamer and the sergeant carrying a volkite charger

Traitor is always best.

That'll work, sounds like a plan.

I'd say there are more traitor EC than loyalist out there. Lots of people love being able to run Fulgrim, Eidolon, and/or Kakophoni. Loyalists just show up a lot here in /hhg/ because I've been posting my very slow poor-fag army building process, and I don't hesitate to rep my colors.

loved the audio dramas expanding the Massacre
youtube.com/watch?v=VUhIGp08XYE
youtube.com/watch?v=4r-e8miAn68&list=PLL9EzFPYdLAMk1xV-5IqTZdo7BkNDPeGQ
Traitor Legion Loyalists still the most tragic tho

I don't know, man, sometimes it seems like there are more loyalist armies from traitor legions than there are traitor armies.

I like being the Traitor EC around here makes me feel like a special snowflake. i've always loved the darker and more dramatic armies like dark eldar and eldar. I had been playing 40k EC for a while with daemonette allies. but I for some reason started to find HH really interesting and filled with sad Drama. btw do you have apic of your whole army I just started HH and only have a 10 man of mk III marines but i'm planning on getting betrayal at carth

Has anyone ever played traitors from loyalist legions?

Those guys don't exist. It's only Loyalists fro traitor legions, traitors and everloyalists.
I could easily help fluffing them if someone claims "that's hard", but I myself am not really interested in those.

No. Because the only justification that can be given for loyalist going traitor is "I'm too stupid and/or scared" there's no Freudian neglect dynamic in play and people are naturally inclined to side with authority over rebellion unless the authority treated them like shit.

Some Spoilers
One of the Garro audiobooks has a bunch of White Khans that sided with Horus tho
Also in White Scars a lot of the hierarchy was pro Horus and even killed some brothers while trying to contact him (Khan was on Prospero at the time)

Yeah, but no one plays white scars

It must be because the Emperor was right in everything He did.

Don't you try to turn me into ADB

>Those guys don't exist
There are some after the Heresy, like the Red Corsairs, but that's a different matter.

What I want to see, though I know there's no such thing and why, is Loyalist Word Bearers.

I mean it as in, the guys that would play traitors from loyalist legions don't exist. Except that elusive traitor RG I've heard of.
>It must be because the Emperor was right in everything He did.
He did make the yiffs :^)

A curse on FW for pricing bikes even more horrendously than everything else they sell, and also for making their jetbikes look the shittiest way possible.

>He did make the yiffs
Friendly reminder that the Vlka Fenryka are automatically in the top 9 legions no matter what anyone says about them.

bjorn plot armor duh

Sorry user, there are only three legions that can be said to be better than the others.

He's saying top 9 because they remained loyalists, user.
I love this pic. But man, last thread was savage on SJWs.

I agree completely.
Basically there are four tiers.
>defenders of Terra
>loyalist but poor at time management
>traitor shits
>word bearers

I know what you did there user and to answer your unasked question:
Yes, Word Bearers are the best

Ultramarines, Ultramarines and Ultramarines

I really want to read nuScouring, and Dorn disowning his Ultrabrother.
>You.Weren't.There

Nah. Dorn failed his dad and he knows it. He's too dutiful to blame others.

Nice try bucko.

Are you Dorn? Because you appear to not be listening.
Never said he didn't fail the Emperor. He blames himself more than any other on the Imperium, even more than Horus.
But that doesn't mean he's not angry at his brother for not bothering for showing up, especially after Sanguinius did arrive and gave his life for the Emperor.
And Dorn is prone to disowning stuff, just ask his First Captain.

>
hypocritical faggots like radio faggotry intensifies are the problem - answering every list question with "take sniper vets" "take drop pods"

Me too. Anyone got the Unspoken short story, or the Shattered Legions collection?
It's about a Salamanders squad left trapped on Isstvan V, sequel to Unforged from Meduson.

>answering every list question with "take sniper vets" "take drop pods"
A truly balanced rulebook would not have those problems. FW doesn't have the excuse of not knowing what it wants to do of the heresy anymore. Fix when?

40kscale marines as primarchs in the HH Boardgame, good idea?

no game except Chess is balanced, never gonna happen.
It comes down to the players and encouraging people to play the broken shit just makes things worse

Every Legion had traitors, just like every Legion had loyalists.

We're talking about players

>no game except Chess is balanced
White is OP in chess.

...

> Numbers within 4% of each other
>Uses poorly proportioned chart to make it seem one sided
>Pretends that it's unbalanced

Nice try, newfag

52:48 is still more balanced than the vast majority of miniature wargames. I think it's impossible to make a perfectly 50:50 game, since one side always have to start, and that side decides what happens later in the game.

Then we could try for a less "Vet as Troops" approach. Because there's little incentive for using tacticals. Again, even mortals hold points better than them, and they're overshadowed by almost everything in their codex.

that's why both players get equal games playing white/black...
typical Veeky Forums retards once again showing their mental prowess

>Typical "Typical Veeky Forums retards" typicalling a Veeky Forums retard for all of Veeky Forums
Typical.

Clearly then, to balance 30k we just need to institute a second game where both players fight with each others armies.
Hell, this works for 40k too.
40k and 30k are now balanced, and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

Life is unfair, let's cry about it while also promoting murder and corruption...
Good idea retards, keep blaming FW instead of the retards and hypocrites on all the podcasts and FB groups

I find to get the very most out of my vets is to keep em focused. Combi meltas, two missile launchers and machine killers means st9 spam, will usually take down some heavy stuff. Combi plasma with marksmen to outflank and delete heavy infantry and light vehicles. Combi flamers with marksmen to outflank and delete meqs with rending flamers.

Bonus points with alpha legion. Infiltrate from mutible tactics, combi meltas, bane strike ammo, and machine killers. You've got a squad that can now blast vehicles with st9 ap1 shots and blast meqs with ap3 rending from banestrike to make up for not having marksmen. If you really need to take down vehicles up close, give them tank hunters with mutible tactics. 10 st 9 ap1 shots that refill armor pen. Brutal.

Makes headhunters look expensive and useless.

Looks like the recent rise is podcast hate claims a trips.
Have you considered, y'know, not listening to them?

It's simply wrong to blame podcasts as the promotors of the meta when any fag with a spreadsheet and the rulesbook will reach the same conclusion, regardless of whatever podcastfags may blabber about.

good idea. make it so