/4eg/ Fourth Edition Dungeons and Dragons General

It should say, "For Levels 1-3" or something like that. Make sure you get your players up to level 2 before you let them quit.

Also, this game is pretty difficult to play without the character generator. You'll also need the books to learn the rules. And you will also need miniatures, (Preferably a LOT of minis) the more variety you have the less you will have substitute them for other official monsters.

If nothing else, buy miniatures you'll need to run the first module. Oh, also you need a playmat. Get the biggest one they have, and make sure to get "DRY-ERASE" markers. Oh, and dice, lots of dice.

>Also, this game is pretty difficult to play without the character generator.

The link to the character generator is up above. Remember to read the instructions.

I know all of this sounds incredibly tedious, but it all adds to the game, once you know how to use it right.

So, to chalk it up, to play this game you need, at the very least -

Dungeon Masters Guide
Players Handbook
Monster Manual
Dungeon Module (levels 1-3)
Dice
Pencils
Map
Minuatures (20+ try and buy them individually)
Photocopies of a the chacter sheets

By now, you are probably thinking, "What an asshole, thats like 300 bucks worth of stuff!" Yeah, but think about what you're getting! Its basically a computer program that runs without a computer! Its actually an amazing design, you only have to handle unexpected exceptions or user error.

It basically teaches your brain how to program! Its amazing! It doesn't really give you any discipline or motivation, so you kind of have to handle that on your own.

DESU, its not any less complicated than Pathfinder is. Pathfinder is actually more difficult to learn all the ins and outs of, so is 3.5.

>so you kind of have to handle that on your own.
well, fuck.

When playing 4e online, I tend to just stick to IRC like I do for most RPG's, only loading up R20 when we need a tabletop.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Take improved monk unarmed strike for 1d12 fists

Halfling rogue with fighter multiclass, scrappy, small warrior defense, versatile duelist and bastard sword proficiency

>53118111
Wow, any game that dares make you bring shit like dice, pencils, and character sheets should fuck right off, am I right?

Its like if filling out paperwork were fun. Somehow, its just exciting when you do do it this way.

just use the character generator already

I wish I could fill out my job application like it were a character sheet. It would make me feel less shitty for never having to work a day in my life.

No job can require prior experience to be a prerequisite, because that is inherently asinine as no new candidates would ever be hired. Yet that's the law. We are required, by law, to fill that sheet out, and it drives us nuts.

Its like handed someone a "Fuck you, were not hiring" placard.

Do you understand how hard it is for a highly functioning autistic to fill that sheet out? Do you? It makes absolutely no sense!

The only qualifications I could have for this job would be if I'd already HAD this job, in which case, why would I be applying for the exact same position which I have now?

Its ridiculous!

Why do you need to be forced to lie in order to get a job? Its so your employer has the right to deny you your entitlement! If he states that you lied on your application to his superior, he can have you fired! Yet its REQUIRED to lie on the application!

Why do they make you do this? Why do they make only US do this?

>standard polearm build

Yawn.

If your employer has the rights and the means to deny you sustenance, then he is your master! It is a conspiracy of dunces, I tell you!

Your employer should be able to take one look at you, ask a handful of question, and decide right then and there whether or not to hire you on the spot. It should be quick, it should be painless. But its not. Its this long drawn out process of begging, pleading and placating your bosses ego, cause HES been there the longest, therefore HE knows what he is doing. The idiocy of seniority. Hes been doing it the longest, so he is the senior idiot!

>just wanted to see some cool character concepts
>get this instead

Well, besides my Barbarian Bugbear and my Halfling monk, thats the only optimized build I have. Except for my wizard. And my wizard is completely busted cause I leveled him up from level 1 all the way to 11 manually and didn't have the gift of foresight as to what would be the optimal build at that level.

t. Brainlets

Maybe get a degree first, you gotta start as a junior position and work to a senior position, then change to a smaller company that can afford to pay seniors, but not afford to train juniors.

I already know how to run the game and everything. I know that if I found players, I could easily run a 4e game. The thing is there's a large difference, for me, between running a game and playing a game. I work like 50+ hours a week and run two other games already. One game is completely honebrewed, and the other is 5e (we're doing a module). Pair with work and those games a plethora of other things, I don't have enough energy to run a third game. Additionally, all of my games are online cause the local groups all play 3.pf. God help me, I hate 3.pf.

If you don't understand the inherent paradox of requiring experience that can only be obtained after you obtain the job in order to be hired for it, then you are probably one of them.

If any sort of prior experience applied to a junior level job that could be obtained outside of a school or work environment, that experience should be listed as required.

I am not going to impress anybody with my 4 year and "Mowed my uncles lawn all summer" references.

Same person. I'm just wondering if there's a place other than roll20 to find people online to play with that isn't post by post. My experiences with roll20 have all been mostly good (only met a few horrible players out of the 50+ I've played with), but goddammit, I can never find a game that plays during a feasible time slot for me.

There are only three types of places to run a game outside your home, a hobby shop, a convention, or a college campus.

What the fuck is going on in this thread?

is I banned?

If I had to pick one thing 4e did well it's gnomes, god I miss 4e gnomes and chippy.

Pic related, get yourself a real gnome.

This actually reminds me of a problem we ran into while working on races for a potential 4e inspired game.

We liked the idea of adding races based on the four classical elementals- Sylph, Undyne, Salamander... And Gnome.

The question was, whether to rename and partition off D&D Gnomes as their own thing, since they're very different from their mythic originator, or to reunify them with the classical elemental?

It worked for secret of mana

Fuck this cancerous game, I was stuck playing it for 2 years because it was the only thing my group wanted to play. I have to keep track of spells and shit as a fighter? FUck that. The maneuvers are basically spells anyway.And half of them are the same. Why not just discard the lower-level powers as you level up so I don't have to fucking deal with them anymore. And please explain to me why the fuck my fighter can do crack the shell or rain of steel once per day? It's not a fucking spell. Also why does my fighter KNOW he can only use it once per day? He quite literally knows "oh, that was a sick ass maneuver I pulled there, too bad I won't be able to do that until tomorrow."

Explain how my fighter knows that he can only do his super-cool disarm maneuver once per day.

>m-m-muh situational usage

Except he can use it whenever he wants, as long as he hasn't used it for that day. Situation doesn't matter.

>m-m-muh he's tired

Then why doesn't he get extra uses of it for a high Constitution? It would make sense a high-Con character would get more uses of something based on vigor and energy.

>m-m-muh action movie

There are plenty of instances of action movie characters doing the same kind of maneuver twice in the same scene, let alone the same movie. This logic doesn't work either.

Cool story bro.

It's a narrative, abstract mechanic.

stale pasta

you have to let people grognard a bit after a new edition. Let them complain about all their old stuff being useless, give them time to get used to a new set.

I really wanted to go last week but was feeling super shitty, like not wanting to be out in the sunlight shitty.

>There are plenty of instances of action movie characters doing the same kind of maneuver twice in the same scene, let alone the same movie.

We call those "bad" movies. We like them ironically cause they use recycled footage.

you ever see Jet Li's "The One"? You remember when you were a kid and used to think that shit was badass?

My grandpa used to watch those in vietnam while he was burning villages. He'd get stoned and laugh his ass off

But, then, you know, they had to go and ruin it by giving teenagers and pregnant women assault rifles.

You misunderstand the action movie thing through taking it too literally. Then again, it seems like you're misunderstanding almost everything by taking it too literally.

point is, I'm not my dad.

Also, I love low level monsters. I love thinking of new ways to make them scary. You have no idea how creepy and animated skeleton can be until you've seen bones outside a museum. You can feel a chill run through you spine when you see them, its really weird.

I understand that you think we are competing for the same player base when we are not. "Mathhammer" type players are fundamentally different from theater groups.

Theater groups want the outcome of the die to affect the story in random ways so they are forced to adapt.

Mathhammer players just want to geek out and play math games during highly packed action sequences with occasional intermissions of dialogue.

TL:DR 5th Ed and 4th ed playerbase are almost completely separate

And if I told you that was a ludicrous false dichotomy? And that acting as if those two things are mutually exclusive isn't only stupid, but a fundamental misunderstanding of D&D?

>And if I told you that was a ludicrous false dichotomy?
Wrong. Its an entirely accurate dichotomy that sums up the problem quite neatly.

>And that acting as if those two things are mutually exclusive isn't only stupid, but a fundamental misunderstanding of D&D?
The irony is palpable

>meme build

Ranger/Monk.
Your offhand weapon is FIST. Be the ultimate dirty fighter: slashing, stabbing, kicking, punching.

So, because you're not flexible enough to engage in roleplay while also enjoying a mechanically engaging system, nobody else is capable of it?

Sure, that makes sense.

>It's a narrative, abstract mechanic.

So it's bullshit.

>We call those "bad" movies. We like them ironically cause they use recycled footage.

No one said it's recycled footage, dumbass. A character can use a trick more than once in a combat. Explain why my fighter can use Rain of Steel only once per day.

Miniature wargames tell a story only incidentally, if not occidentally.

The rules aren't there to facilitate a story or resolve disputes. They are there because it fundamentally a math game involving statistics and probabilities.

4e is a permissive system, the assumption is that when you are playing them you are playing a board game, i.e., you can't take out bank loans in monopoly. You have to stick to the rails and let them guide you.

Narrative focused games are designed to be played theatrically, only resorting to dice when absolutely necessary.

I'm saying that in real roleplay, people are going to want to do things that may make others uncomfortable, because they are acting out their fantasies and not being trained to emote or project.

Improv is a fundamentally different beast than table top gaming.

Because as part of the structure of a fight scene, they pace how much impact a blow will have.

Most of the time, it'll be an exchange of more simple blows without much immediate impact, with a few strong, potent or effective manoeuvres used during the scene.

And, not necessarily in every fight scene, there are those huge, spectacle moments where someone pulls off something awesome.

That's your daily. It's the big, badass finishing attack that the hero holds off on until the end of the episode, because that's the time it's appropriate to use it.

And, if you're the type to dislike abstract, narrative mechanics like , you'll probably agree with their assessment. But that doesn't stop the mechanic making sense in its own context and working exactly as intended.

And that is relevant to anything at all, how exactly?

You really need to read more games, if you think those lines are definite boundaries. They barely exist at all, with how many things cross and blur them these days.

>4e is a permissive system, the assumption is that when you are playing them you are playing a board game, i.e., you can't take out bank loans in monopoly. You have to stick to the rails and let them guide you.

So you have no knowledge or understanding of D&D. Got it.

(Yes, some groups play that way. No, that is not the 'right' way, not the way all groups play, probably not even the way most groups play.)

It really does help control the pacing. If you're players blow their wad of dailies they are going to be stuck whiffing and using their at-wills when they have to fight a solo monster and its minions. Same thing if they never use them, if they don't use their dailies before they hit the milestone they will only get to use them once and that session will be much more grindy.

It teaches you how to conserve your powers and use them only during the best opportunity.

>So you have no knowledge or understanding of D&D. Got it.
>(Yes, some groups play that way. No, that is not the 'right' way, not the way all groups play, probably not even the way most groups play.)

I'm talking about 4e.
You're talking about 5e.

5e is a narrative focused game that has occasional board game elements to make fight scenes more interesting. (Because oral traditions don't have the visual spectacle of movies for their action scenes, this is necessary)

5e is about a narrative construct that centered around the myth of the heroes journey, the idea is to take someone out of their element and into a strange and mysterious place. Its meant to evoke a sense of wonder by challenging ones own pretensions of what is or what could be.

The idea isn't to grind through 30 orcs for XP, the idea is to make orcs scary. Have the party get captured or show them torturing somebody.

5e is a fundamentally different game than 4e. Its simpler, more streamlined, easier to play and more conductive to narrative style of play.

Nothing about 5e makes it more conducive to narrative play than 4e. There is not a single mechanic that exists in either game that makes them more or less appropriate, and I would challenge you to point one out.

>5e is a narrative focused game

Oh my god, please go post that whenever a storygame thread pops up. They'll laugh you out of there so fast, it'll be fucking hysterical.

Well then you tell me, what is 5e then?

What is d&d all about?

Are you kidding?
Do you know how much more simple the mechanics of 5th ed are compared to 3.5/pf/4e?

So they're simpler.

How does that make it more conducive to narrative play? (Hint- It doesn't.)

Scroll up. You'll find a pretty solid definition of D&D in general.

>So they're simpler.
>How does that make it more conducive to narrative play? (Hint- It doesn't.)

I'm just going to let you sit there and think about what you just said.

So you don't actually have a point to make? Awesome, glad to know you realised you were being dumb.

>Why not just discard the lower-level powers as you level up so I don't have to fucking deal with them anymore.

you've never actually played 4e, have you?

If I have to explain why simpler mechanics make for better narrative, then I feel like I would be wasting my breath talking to you further.

I could argue all day and you would insist that the sky is purple, because you aren't interested in action or discussion, only arguing.

I'm not even sure you'd be content to have the last word. You would just sit there in your silence, vaguely ill at ease and wishing for something to vent your anger out on.

dammit.

You can't actually argue it, because it doesn't exist.

It's a fundamental misunderstanding of rules light narrative games like PbtA. People assume that, because they're light, it means they're narrativist. But the actual quantity of mechanics is entirely irrelevant- It's what you do with them that matters.

Although they're less common, mechanically complex narrativist games like Legends of the Wulin exists, and despite the somewhat sorry state of the release in that case, it proves the existence of that design space and fundamentally torpedoes your point.

D&D 5e is no more 'narrativist' than 4e. It's arguably less, since the whole Powers structure makes most sense as a narrative mechanic.

I actually found the disjointed clusterfuck of 5e rules harder to navigate than 4e. More rules, and more rules interaction, but you knew that if you looked it up it would be perfectly clarified.
(Except the stealth rules, maybe)

4e has the advantage of clear layouts and some of the best user facing book design of any RPG ever. Sadly 5e retreated back to the familiar old obfuscation and stupid stuff like ordering things alphabetically rather than by level.

I was disappointed too, user. 4e is the only edition I'll bother to DM because it's not actually a giant fucking chore to do so.

Questions about the Character Builder
>Does it lack any of the released 4e content?
>Is there a way to enter custom/homebrew content?

Here's a challenge for you all: two or more character builds that aren't mind-blowing on their own but are meme-level when combined.

The best one I've got (which admittedly is probably on the low end of things) is Pursuit Avenger, Assault Swordmage, Tactician Warlord.

Avenger moves next to an enemy, Warlord stands behind Avenger, Swordmage marks that enemy and moves away. The enemy can then either take an attack from Swordmage by attacking someone else or it can follow Swordmage, giving Avenger a damage bonus. Warlord then uses either Commander's Strike or Direct the Strike to let the Avenger make another attack with the same damage bonus, potentially + Warlord's Int. Bonus points if Avenger uses an action point that turn for Tactical Presence.

But I'm not very good at this so I'm sure there are better ones.

Such a group combination requires far too much setup for relatively little payoff. Remember that it takes some work for a swordmage to move up to an enemy, Aegis that enemy, and then move away from that enemy all in one turn.

A much simpler tag-team duo is nothing more than a generic Intelligence warlord paired with an Essentials basic-attack-spamming striker, such as a fighter (slayer), a rogue (thief), or the infamous assassin (executioner)|warlock.

There is nothing quite like letting an Essentials striker's supercharged basic attack occur multiple times in one round, with damage bonuses on top of that, thanks to a warlord's attack-enabling.

If you are looking into catch-22s involving defenders, you can accomplish that with a single character, such as a paladin|warlock right from level 1. A more elaborate, paragon-tier defender catch-22 would be a White Lotus Master Riposte half-elf fighter (knight).

Half-elf essentials shenanigans are quite fun indeed.

Especially with the Hunter's AoE.

I'm partial to artificers or warlords dumping a gigantic bonus to attack rolls on a melee ranger, right before the melee ranger does is 10+ attack nova round

Warlord+Slayer.

Any type of warlord, any type of slayer. All warlords are great at giving MBAs+boosts (especially for charges), all Slayers are great at MBAs (especially charging).

I mean warlords are pretty damn great in any given situation but I didn't find Slayers shining without people giving them excuses to charge shit.

Crap nevermind, I should read more.

Uhhhh, I built a pal/sorc->PMCsorc that was essentially a ranged defender. Just standing behind the group's strikers, hitting with all those implement attacks, and forcing the enemy to either wade past the front line (eating AoOs) or get blasted with supercharged Cha-based punishment and interrupts.

Was a bit of series build in its own right, but it REALLY shone with a solid frontline covering it's ass.

The strange thing is that, what you are describing, is not at all what 5e does. What you are describing is 4e done right. 4e done right is a game where you play the protagonists of a fantasy novel, in a largely diceless freeform game that just so happens to have a hard fast and well balanced board-game for when the fantasy novel "zooms into" combat mode.

In 5e you play people trying to go into dangerous situations (frequently dungeons) to make money collect items, hoping to survive long enough to retire before the existential horrors of the dungeonverse consume them.

4e is about playing HEROES. 5e is about playing ADVENTURERS.

>5e is about playing ADVENTURERS.

5e is quite schizophrenic about this, I find. I mean, that's what it implies it does, but it also does (and implies) quite a lot of the first.

Is it possible to transform a random object into a somatic component for spellcasting?
Like the gauntlet of an armor?

I do not understand the question in the context of 4e.

4e doesn1t really "do" the whole somatic component things. You could refluff an implement as a gauntlet, sure (as long as you don't expect to use that hand for much else in combat).

4e doesn't? well that simplifies things, thank you

What are you planning to do?

Don't-fall-of-the-board-before-I-get-home- bump

I use the Help Action.

Look up shadow of the demon lord gnomes. They are similar to DnD svirfneblin but moving more towards the earth spirit side.

If I were to try to base races on their mythical progenitors, I'd make gnomes the tough earth people and dwarves the magical tricksters.

Off-hand? How about both hands? You're basically going full Hokuto no Ken at that point, too.

Flail-using Fighter (or any Defender, really); Longtooth Shifter Ranger|Cleric/Moonstalker with two Heavy Blades, Headsman's Chop and Gauntlets of Brutality (or whichever is the one that gives +5 damage when the opppnent is prone).

+2d6+10+Wisdom bonus on prone enemies by level 16 per attack. A Level 16 Ranger|Cleric's nova has like 6 attacks at worst (more around 10 attacks). That shit piles up quickly. And that's without any external bonuses, too.

Now for less meme-y matters, I've been thinking about making a Githzerao Avenger PMC Rogue. Should be really mobile and excel at crit-fishing, and at low levels you can do Surprising Charge on Power of Skill shenanigans, before slowly switching out for better Rogue powers like Low Slash and Knockout. Can even go Rapier+Short Sword if you're in for the dual-wielding fun.

why the fuck is cleric in there?

AC+Sohei theme with recharge. With Cleric you don't need to have consistently high Dexterity for decent AC, it just gives you Defender-level AC for free. Which means you can buff Wisdom which helps this build.

user, why people hybrid Cleric is not really rocket surgery.