Magical Girls & Mahou Shoujo

There has "Always" been dark stuff in Magic Girl media

Sailor Moon is filled with people dying and going insane

It just Usagi is Hax and can fix it

Watching the genre evolve from its magical "shrine maiden" beginnings is something people should be forced to see in order to avoid making the assumption the moeshit we have today is representative of the genre.

>moeshit

Does this count as magical girl?

Exactly. I'm the most incorrect person in this thread, so all posts are going to be targeted at me instead of screaming at OP for being a Weeb.

Seeing post such as these make me sad because it reminds me of how many normalfags have invaded Veeky Forums lately.

>Using weeb like if it were some sort of insult
Sad.

user everyone in this thread has watched or read magic girl stuff

None of us are going to complain about someone being a Weeb

It counts as shit. Had great ideas but horrible clichéd execution, and almost all the characters sucked. But the actual premise and conflicts were quite interesting and the Hundreds chick (can't remember her name, the MTF) was really cool.

Anyway... it's more like toku than magical girl. Close enough to count as inspiration though.

I'd definitely like to play/run a 'fixed' Gatchaman Crowds.

Well, in that case I'm the idiot, the jester that everyone laughs at to lighten the mood.

Also Flip Flappers was a goddamn treasure. Would've liked to see an episode or two that mimicked the ending credits song. Loved that Grimm's fairy tale aesthetic.

Oh and it has Iwasaki music which is dope. I loved the art style and music.

Uh, I'm actually looking to get into magical girls. I'm into Kamen Rider and it looks like a fun relative of the genre, and I have some prospective players who like magical girls, so it might be fun to run a magical girl campaign for them. Any recommendations?

I have Flip Flappers and Madoka on my list. I know some Precure is good but I don't know which are best for inspiration.

Thanks!

Precure is tricky, and opinions are heavily divided on which seasons are good and which ones are not. You should be familiar with how this works considering you watch Rider. Which Riders do you like or what do you like in Rider? Serious? Comedic? Something else? I could tell you which Precure seasons are the most like them.

Card Captor Sakura and Nanoha are obligatory, as is Sailor Moon.

I'd personally recommend Mahou Shoujo Ikusei Keikaku that while most people decry as a dark and edgy mahou shoujo with no substance and a Madoka rip-off, the series heavily improves after the first arc, which was the one adapted into the anime, the rest are just light novels so I'm not sure if that would be to your taste. Furthermore, every arc deals with a diferent story, for example the first arc is a survival battle royale, the second is a murder mystery, the third is something like 24, a capture mission that spans in that timeframe, the fourth is full on horror and politics and the 5/6 are more politics and pretty much an all out civil war. Very varied powers and a very colorful cast as well.

What do you consider the genre's origins?

The sex-and-social-commentary-heavy Majokko Megu-chan?

The shounen fanservice Cutey Honey?

Himitsu no Akko-chan?

Sally the Witch?

Bewitched?

Or are you one of those idiots that thinks that Sailor Moon popped out of nowhere and came up with everything?

It's good, but I'd like to see more Mahou Ossan

Ah yeah I definitely understand. Here are my favorite seasons:

W, Fourze, Gaim, Drive, Ex-Aid

I also liked Power Rangers RPM for the odd but perfect mix of post apocalypic drama and comedy with fun characters and knowing genre winks.

I definitely like a good mix of light-hearted fun alongside the drama; but going entirely in one direction or the other isn't bad either.

Your recommendation sounds cool, I'll definitely look into it.

I remember liking Card Captor as a kid, and I can't believe I forgot Nanoha.

Speaking of, man, I've been really wanting to run a Kamen Rider campaign too. I think a 'Rider war' story like Gaim or Ex-Aid would be really well-suited to a campaign I think.

For something light-hearted and SoL-ish I'd recommend Maho. For comedy I'd recommend Smile. For something all-round I'd recommend GoPri and HC. If you want /u/ then watch Suite or Doki. If you want romance then watch Yes! 5+GoGo.

>I definitely like a good mix of light-hearted fun alongside the drama; but going entirely in one direction or the other isn't bad either.
If so then go with HC. It doesn't lean too heavily to either side.

>Your recommendation sounds cool, I'll definitely look into it.
Fair warning, if you ever decide to bother the novels read them from here:
reddit.com/r/mgrp/comments/5z9st6/translation/

As for why, there was a total fiasco where the guy who was supposedly translating the novels originally was discovered to be a fraud whose "translations" were inaccurate, had minstranslations all over, sentences and details completely omitted and last but not least the "translator" had the gall to actually make-up events and details that were not in the original novel and insert them on his "translation". The place I linked is the place where two dudes are re-translating everything are using to keep track of their work.

Have fun user.

I dig it
Not sure if I would ever put it in a campaign though.
Not even sure how I would.
Dropped potential: the anime.
Heartcatch Precure is a great entry point for Tokufags.
That is what got me into the genre.

Magical girls seem like the kind of thing that would be hard to integrate in a campaign not focused on them.

shit

Jesus it is so obvious that the only Mahou Shoujo you ever touched is Meduca Meguca and Sailor moon.

Why is it that Veeky Forums works like a red cape on a bull when it comes to people who dont know shit what about what they are talking about but still feel the need to share their opinions about it?

Do you even friendship?

Sailor Moon

Not him, but either Cutey Honey or Himitsu no Akko-chan. It's hard to say, especially since Princess Knight existed almost a decade before any of those popped up.
That said, I don't particularly disagree with the guy.

If you want to examine the term "mahou shoujo", examine it in the vein you would examine the term "cyberpunk".

"Mahou" refers to flashy magic with obvious graphical effects, copious amount of bling, explosions, flashing imagery etc. Basically, the WoW variety of magic - "if it's special, then it glows". This basically defines the undercurrent of almost every mahou shoujo anime and/or manga, like the transformation sequences, the "magic is flashy, so we have to try our best to conceal it and divide our lives into the public and secret parts!" conflict etc.

"Shoujo" refers to the main characters, and therefore, main values of the characters, main conflicts they find important. "Shoujo" is explicitly about young girls, who are naive, inexperienced, who care about what others think about them, who socialize and generally act, like, well, normal girls of their age.

The problem I see is that the "shoujo" part of the "mahou shoujo" basically drastically limits the amount of interesting topics and makes the whole affair (like the main conflicts and such) rather shallow from the viewpoint of an adult.
Adult people don't believe in abstract concepts of "justice" and "right" - they believe in very real justice and very real right that they have experienced on their own skins. Adults are not infantile. They don't throw a tantrum and don't go into a breakdown mode when something happens that clashes with their worldview, which is a very, very popular topic in mahou shoujo - you know, the whole dark mahou shoujo bullshit and all.

Anyway, I can ramble incessantly about this literally forever, and it's getting pretty late, so if you want us to discuss this topic - be my guest and indicate your interest in any way.

bullets is the most cost effective spell

Shoujo doesn't mean the message of the story has to reflect the beliefs of the main character, no? You can tell stories about growing up and becoming an adult - with adult worldviews and beliefs.

By that grounds, then most shounen have very strong limits, too, since the characters they deal with are young boys with different viewpoints. (Which would be a valid opinion - I'm just wondering if that's what you're implying.)

I can fully agree that the standard adult protagonist has a different view of love, hope, righteousness, and many defining factors that drive magical girl anime. But that's not a limit at all. In fact, having a protagonist with room to expand and develop their worldview is bounds for some really interesting twists and turns, and some conflicts with people who don't fit into it. If anything, that gives more room to explore interesting topics. And that whole growth thing happens all the time, especially in the 60s/70s mahou shojou tales.

And if you want, you can say it started with Princess Knight. Can't believe I forgot that.

That's true, but it still limits the characters worldview.

The characters of the mahou shoujo stories are inherently childish. Whether they grow up or not depends on the direction of the story, but it still limits the topics you can bring up - you can't start a story as if the characters were already adult in their worldviews, because that isn't mahou shoujo.
And the "growing up" story, to be honest, deserves of a separate lengthy post to discuss it. I mean, if we're talking anime, Tatami Galaxy is basically a story about someone growing up, and it's fucking brilliant - I can talk about it at lengths about how it nailed all the right parts.

I think of it as limiting, because you have to first go through the "growing up" phase of the story, as if this was some sort of bullshit Naruto training arc. That doesn't mean it makes mahou shoujo inherently bad - it just makes it rather limited in its approach to storytelling.

I'd rather do a magical-girl type character in a supers game or something (where the character is literally a fan of the genre and tries to embody it with their powers, to various comedic, dramatic, or tragic results depending on the game's tone)

Ahhhh I see what you mean. Definitely understandable then, dude. You definitely have to appreciate its niche then, yeah. And there is still variety in what kind of childish worldview they hold, how developed they begin, etc. Not all young women believe the same things or have the same morals and so on.

E.g. while Kamen Rider isn't about young kids, it still is made for them, and the protagonists often hold naive beliefs. But they still are very different, confront different problems and grow in different ways, you know? They end up with unique senses of justice and what is right.

I'd elaborate more but I'm on my phone. Hopefully you're around later cuz I'd like to continue this in more detail. Great points you bring up.

Growing up can be done in more ways than a training arc. Like you said, it can be done well. But the way I see it, if you don't have growth in a character by the end, they what you have is a very static character - one who hasn't changed since the beginning, or learned any lessons.

Being static isn't a bad thing. But it's a thing tons of characters through fiction go through, and it's no less fresh either time. Being a child or an adult doesn't change the fact that the main character can be a different person by the end of the story. To say otherwise is to be overestimating the average maturity level of adults in anime.

>There will never be a mahou shoujo anime about jaded Christmas Cakes with their own definition of justice

I feel just slightly bitter. I had been playing a jaded, shellshocked magical girl as early as back in 2005 in City of Heroes and imagined a whole 'dark magical girl' thing for her.

And then Madoka got published first.

I wish Madoka had never existed just so that you faggots whining about Madoka and muh dark mahou shoujo that Madoka invented and crap like that would disappear forever.

>>There will never be a mahou shoujo anime about jaded Christmas Cakes with their own definition of justice

Feels bad man.

My fellow enlightened cake-lovers.

Madoka's cute

I wonder who's behind this post.

Have any of you guys tried the Tokyo Heroes system?

>Also everything is lesbians. Everything.
Pic related but I feel like I have to bite. Put yourself in the girl's shoes for a minute.

You're probably an early teenager, maybe high school age at best. Your body is changing, your mind is occupied by all manner of weird things, and a few nights a week you traipse all across town to kill monsters only you can see that will eat your friends if you ever lose focus. All the while you have to keep the entire affair secret because no one would believe you.
And then you meet another girl. She knows what you have to deal with, what you hide from everyone, what sacrifices you make to keep the people you love safe. She may be the only other person who can know these things, and she probably uses you to keep a hold on her humanity just as much as you use her. Is it a surprise to ANYONE that the two of you become deeply emotionally invested with each other?

You know why former soldiers tend to stick with their battle buddies long after the war's over? They're the only other people who know the hell you endured. It's the same principle here.

homu pls

Meanwhile Usagi is laughing her ass off

I mean she'd stop eventually and help because thats the kind of person she is but she'd still laugh at first

Which makes me wonder how other magic girls would react to Sailor Moon

I disagree that mahou shoujo should be limited to little, and teenage girls. The genre has overgrown it's own initial name and expanded further. Furthermore, being an "adult" does not mean a person still does not have potential for "growth" or "development". Stories can be about much other different things as well, even if they originally were about that theme in specific, the themes on which magical girls can be used have also broadened through the years. You could even say the magical girl has become a character archetype instead of uniquely being a genre.

>Revolutionary Girl Utena
>Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
>Arjuna
>Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt
>Kill La Kill

Of all those only Nanoha is a legit magical girl series.

Magical Girl does not mean any female character which has supernatural powers of any sort.

It's still about immature people, though. The immaturity of the characters and belief in abstract ideals is a staple of mahou shoujo genre, just the same as it is a staple of shounen genre.

There are two different kinds of personality growth I personally see - the "upwards" growth and the "sideways" growth.
Mahou shoujo almost exclusively deals with the "upwards" growth (if you want an example of what I consider "sideways" growth, think something along the lines of Space Brothers).

> (if you want an example of what I consider "sideways" growth, think something along the lines of Space Brothers).
I've not watched that. Could you explain what you mean with this?

Having the magical girls be magical women instead would definitely make it less creepy if you insist on keeping all the fanservice and sex shit in it.

I'd argue for Kill la Kill, the main differences being the focus on a solo main character (mostly) and alien powered pseudo-magic science instead of simply magic.

It's hard to put into words, honestly.
Basically, the "sideways" doesn't change the character's worldview drastically - it doesn't change his ideals. Instead, it exposes the character to different experiences, different cultures and different people, allowing him to grow as a human, but still not making him any more mature than he already is.

Also, I strongly recommend watching Space Brothers if you didn't already, because it's one of the better anime of the decade.

>He doesn't sexualize his magical girls no matter the age
Get a load of this guy.

I define Magical Girl as follows:
>female protagonists
>protagonists transform to do battle
>“monster”-of-the-week rhythm (generally)
>focus on growth and interpersonal relationships outside of battle
>optional: cute fluffy companion
The only anime on my list that doesn't quite fulfill all four criteria is Earth Maiden Arjuna. Nanoha, Utena, and P&SwG even have the obligatory fluffy companion.

All in all, Magical Girl is a very wide and all-encompassing genre. Trying to limit it to an arbitrary definition nowadays is nothing but foolishness.

>Magical Girl is a very wide and all-encompassing genre
I disagree strongly. In my opinion, merely (ab)using the mahou shoujo conventions doesn't qualify you for being called a mahou shoujo story.

If I add:
>recurring rival who features and develops prominently enough to be a protagonist him/herself
it still holds, except for Arjuna (whose inclusion might really have been a stretch).

Get a load of this seat.

>Get a load
I thinks she already does.

>calling PSG mahou shoujo
Really, nigga?

Utena is also not mahou shoujo (even though technically it is), it's just Ikuharashit (for the lack of better definition), just like Penguindrum is - the underlying topics definitely have little with classic mahou shoujo.
It's like calling Evangelion mecha - you are technically right, but also missing the point entirely.

Speaking of mecha and magical girls, how is Rayearth?

P&SwG has two teenage girl protagonists who transform to fight monsters with magic every week, who have a “cute” companion fluffball, and Panty has a bit of a character development arc at the end.
Sounds like a Mahou Shoujo to me! Nobody said the magical girls had to be pure.

Utena is definitely MS, albeit a very mature take on the genre (in terms of characters, aesthetics, etc.).

I only read the manga, but the manga was good.

I found it to be unbelievably boring. I forced myself to keep at it because of the mecha and it was not worth it at all.

>Sounds like a Mahou Shoujo to me!
Next thing you tell me The Powerpuff Girls is mahou shoujo now that I think of it, it probably is. Okay, okay, you got me.

Utena is definitely not mahou shoujo, though, no matter how you slice it.

Is... that a magical trap?
What is that from? Google can't return source, and I'm genuinely curious that magical trap is a genre.

>I'm genuinely curious that magical trap is a genre
Are you not aware of the last decade in anime or something?
There was that Twintail Narimasu anime, there was the magical boys anime about a year ago, there was Korean Zombie Desk Car etc.

Somehow all this passed me by. I know of twintails but that's not exactly magical trap.
Is there such a thing? And I'm still waiting on sauce for whatever that thing was.

Isn't there a PPG anime even?

It's pretty clearly an OC

Kind of proves my point then. Magical trap as a genre seems criminally underexploited, but I'm impressed by the level of work that's been put into that image. I'd be down with it.

>Nobody said the magical girls had to be pure.
I'm pretty sure that's the last thing he was thinking about when telling you that P&S was not mahou shoujo.

Pretty sure that's just someone's OC donut steel. Best I could find was this. More like traps they are just magical boys, effeminate fruity faggy boys though.

warosu.org/tg/thread/38978376#p38978447
Go nuts. Enjoy your fap.

>There was that Twintail Narimasu anime
That's gender-bending.

>there was Korean Zombie Desk Car etc.
That's crossdressing, not a trap.

Get your terms right.

I picked them up from a character art thread, no idea of their origin beyond that

>Veeky Forums has better discussions about anime than /a/
Somehow, I'm not even surprised.

>Magical trap as a genre seems criminally underexploited
Picrelated.

...

Fuck off homos, we only like cute girls here

>Utena is definitely not mahou shoujo, though, no matter how you slice it.
A girl is granted magical transformation powers to fight almost every episode. Most interactions are between her and another literally magical girl (and their cute pet), with some lesbian undertones. They both grow together and learn to deal with difficult emotions and personal dilemmas throughout the series.
There are other girls (rivals initially) who can likewise transform and fight, and who too go through their own character development arcs where they deal with love, loss, and other issues.
Also all the boys are handsome and make girl hearts go doki doki.
M A H O US H O U J O

Can it, faglord. We're having a thread.

this

>Also all the boys are handsome and make girl hearts go doki doki.
Terrible.

Magical Girls should only love their fellow Magical Girls.

They do that too!

They get even more intimate in the film!

yeah PPGZ, and its magical (science) girls where three girls can transform into Hyper Blossom, Rolling Bubbles, and Powered Buttercup. its worth a look for funsies.

Are you serious? Utena is like one of the most famous examples of lesbianism in anime... or at least it was when I got into anime.

>posting S2's worst girl
shiggy

I can't really think of any worst girl from S1

>Veeky Forums has better discussions about anime than /a/

Fuck yeah we do! Veeky Forums has a penchant for doing the jobs of threads with shitty communities. Usually through a lense of rpg mechanics and tropes that often lends itself to new views and discussions.

What's a good Magical Girl System?

Don't say Magical Burst or Accidental Magical Girl.

Mutants and Masterminds
FATE
Strike!

Huh, no Savage Worlds? You might not be Strikefag.

Might as well try Kamigakari. That system can do just about anything.

Big Eyes Small Mouth? Isn't that one that's suggested?

...

That system certainly looks super fun at a glance. How would you do magical girl in it?

i was thinking monster hearts might be an idea, just replace monsters with magical girls and brew some stuff. has dealing with dual lives and darkest self can be despair mode if we are going full meduka meguca.

If you're doing PBTA, then Masks is way better suited to it.

I know D&D isn't popular, but when 5e was brand new folks were talking about how the warlock lent itself to being a very viable magical girl class, especially with the chain pact familiar.