Are people that play traditional games "artists"?

It wasn't even that funny.

That's not art, that's a hobby or diversion. Art is an observation of nature submitted for diverse interpretation.

Games themselves are not art, but the players can create an artful experience with them. They may create actual art if they can find a compelling way to communicate those experiences.

Yes but as an artist in training I can say that doesn't make give them any justifiable right to be respected.
>Not all art is good art
>Not all art is meant to be shared
>Not all art is valuable in any monetary sense
Some art is just momentary and meant to be enjoyed as a simple, fleeting, personal experience. That's what a good game is like.

Yes, art does need to be shared in some way or there is no potential for irony. If it's just for yourself, that's just a thing that makes you feel good.

Veeky Forums is not full of hate mongers.
We are hate stylists.
We are hate artists!

Art
noun
noun: art; plural noun: arts; plural noun: the arts

1.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
"the art of the Renaissance"
synonyms: fine art, artwork, creative activity
"he studied art"
works produced by human creative skill and imagination.
"his collection of modern art"
synonyms: fine art, artwork, creative activity
"he studied art"
creative activity resulting in the production of paintings, drawings, or sculpture.
"she's good at art"
2.
the various branches of creative activity, such as painting, music, literature, and dance.
"the visual arts"
3.
subjects of study primarily concerned with human creativity and social life, such as languages, literature, and history (as contrasted with scientific or technical subjects).
"the belief that the arts and sciences were incompatible"
4.
a skill at doing a specified thing, typically one acquired through practice.
"the art of conversation"
synonyms: skill, craft, technique; More
aptitude, talent, flair, gift, genius, knack, facility, ability, capability, competence;
artistry, mastery, dexterity, dexterousness, craftsmanship, expertness, expertise, proficiency, skilfulness, adroitness, adeptness, deftness, cleverness, ingenuity, virtuosity;
informalknow-how
"the art of writing"

By basically all of the above definitions; yes

False.

But that quote is wrong, because the preparation of food is considered an art form. Sex has been used in countless forms of art across the years, and theres a reason it's called martial "arts"

>theres a reason it's called martial "arts"
The fact that they're mainly for prancing homos and useless in a fight?

i was gonna say no, but all these faggots showed up first.

i've been to junior artist exhibitions before.

yes, it's paint on a canvas.

no, it's not art.

you'd need to be the very best to even ask to qualify

...

Shut up you fat fuck, the only thing you've had to fight is diabetes.

You know, I had this whole thing brewing up about how I'm an artist, carefully and skillfully crafting adventures, events, scenarios, and characters, and that I'm actually more of a modern artist because the undeveloped artistic minds of my audience cannot always grasp their brilliance, but that picture sums everything up way more eloquently than I can manage.

more artistic than the guy in your pic

As is a fry-cook at denny's

Honestly what he has there wouldn't make a half-bad mountain range. Then he would just need to brush in some greenery, maybe add a waterfall or two and a medieval village and BAM! Instant comfy

"No"

That's just artist in British

this is a good post

We're as much artists as your random hack fantasy author.

/thread

cnet.com/news/Veeky Forums-screenshot-sells-for-90k-on-ebay/

Is it a creative effort? Yes.
Does it allow someone to glean messages from the creator/about the world the creator inhabits? Yes.
Does it fuel creative works in it's own right? Yes.

I mean, why wouldn't Veeky Forums be art? The meme of self deprecation and/or snobbery?

You heard it here first folks, sucking dick is creative expression

I disagree: your definition precludes music, as it is not reliant on the observation of the natural world.

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Depending on the game and how much of a fag you are someone who plays traditional games could see themselves as an artist.
>Assembling, converting, and painting miniatures is like being a sculptor and painter
>Playing a character in an RPG is similar to improv
>Running an RPG is like being a writer
Granted as I said it depends on how much of a fag you are, if someone who converts miniatures told me he is a sculptor I would laugh at him, and if a potential DM described himself as a writer without having actually written anything I would probably abandon the game before session one since he is probably an autist that would sperg out if I mess with his super special story.

It fits, it's metaphorical or an abstraction. You could argue that evoking an idea can be a form of observation through replication as well.

Provide counter argument.

A statement provided without proof does not need proof to be refuted.

The *preparation* of food is art, and my definition does not preclude it. There are foods in this world that do not need to be prepared, and can be consumed for artless survival. Artless reproductive sex exists, and is immensely dissatisfying, Martial "arts" are the practice, not the application. All three are arts, but they are not the most base, which is artless.

Yes, it does. Otherwise, your immediate gainsaying is just contrarianism. I reference the Monty Python Argument Clinic.

>LAWL sky is green
>No it's not retard
>PROOOOOOVE IT!
>I mean, everyone know's it's not
>Not an argument I win I'M SO SMART LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWL

You're such a cool guy.

>You could argue that evoking an idea can be a form of observation
Then using that logic I disagree with your assertion that games aren't art because games can evoke ideas.

If proving the sky is blue (or that the premise is flawed/irrelevant) is a difficult task for you, you're not great at argument.

>prove Sky is not green
>nearly everyone has a fucking camera on their phone right now.
>Extend camera in the direction of the nearest window.
>With blinds open
>Snap photo.
"Behold. The sky is black. because it is fucking nighttime.

You're either on top of your troll game or on top of the spectrum.

It's like you don't even try.

You going for all things that are, thus music, are necessarily representational/given thus observation of nature via synthesis? I haven't read the third critique yet

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Yes, yes.

I hate modern art so much. I don't give a shit about internal expression, just give me the shit that shows practical skill even a layman can admire.

The problem is in most fields that's too limiting. Too many people can do that so that's why you begin analyzing it beyond mechanical skill alone. The problem is when years later people forget why they were doing it in the first place and thus start placing sole importance on expression, symbolism, metaphor, etc.

Both should be important. If a work genuinely succeeds in one though then who cares. Music is one of the easiest places to see this. You probably like plenty of songs that aren't hard to play.

Somewhat.

I'd argue worldbuilders or "active" players—you know, the non-deadweight—are creating things for others to witness.

Passive players receive descriptions and make up what they will for their mind's eye. Without any substantial roleplaying or worldbuilding contributions, their psychological creations are purely personal.

Maybe define it like intiMATE. "Super special friends"

Baka gaijin, everyone knows the sky is green.

Honestly, I do go back and forth on whether games, themselves, qualify as art or not. It's just more comfortable for me to focus on the output as having merit because you have better defined creative and audience parties.

A GM creating a world and presenting a story is definitely a personal observations or worldview and they are sharing it. The players form a deverse audience who can interpret the presentation freely, despite the fact they're taking part. I guess I'll go back on what I said before about the gameplay being artful, but not art. The game itself though, I'm just not clever or post-modern enough to make that call.

>Defacating is an art by your definition.

Allrghty then.

My definition of art would be:

A crafted subject where the author/maker is competent within a certain area related to the art-piece such as penmanship, painting, sculpting, stonemasonry, metalworking etc.

So no. Splashig walls with paint isn't art since it doesn't require any sort of competence.

we can attempt to define art as any medium that conveys emotions

so, while often at a minimal level, many are

I dunno, I would say taking a shit is ultimately for my own protection

...

Why do we even continue?

Kek

Depends on the setting.

As someone who knows he's a bit of a ponce, I do try to create something akin to art when running a campaign. My goal is always to stir stong feelings within my players and add a memorable experience to their lives. In that respect I feel I have succeeded often enough to be proud of that mission.

It's such a wonderful thing to have someone thank you for a campaign that's affected them in some way, whither it's just from the sheer joy of the experience or the emotional roller-coaster you put them on. I understand this sounds pretentious as fuck and probably is but it's how I feel.

This was rather funny though.

So unlike the mess of inane comments following this post I'm going to attempt to actually argue something.

Counterpoint:
Art is largely done as a business and has been for a very long time. One of the functions for producing art, which you have pointed out, is to monetize it. If you are gaining some monetary or other material benefit from something, 3 of the things you are likely using that money for is food, courting a lover, and creating an environment in which you are safe. Commission artists on the Internet do this, movie makers do this, novelists do this, painters used to live at a patron's expense so long as they painted things for them.

Second counterpoint:
Primitive art was (and is if you look at some modern primitive cultures) considered pivotal to the act of hunting. In other words, in order to hunt for food, someone has to make art first.

Gameplaying is a form of art, or at least storytelling, but unless you're gaming on a professional level, taking on the title of "artist" exaggerates your role in the community.

I fixed the drain on my sink the other day, but I'm not a "plumber."

Well, yeah, obviously. They're doing collaborative storytelling. They might be doing it well, or very badly, but they're definitely doing it, performing to entertain themselves and each other.

There's not really a quality floor on being an artist, and "artist" doesn't mean what you're doing is any good. If you draw a wobbly smiley face vomiting shit, well, you still drew a thing. If you and your friends make up a boring story about hit points and attack rolls, you still made up a story together.

>I fixed the drain on my sink the other day, but I'm not a "plumber."

I mean, you are, because you did some plumbing. You're just an amateur at plumbing, so telling someone you were a plumber would be misleading because it implied you were professional level.

If you drive a car, you ARE a driver. If you tell someone you're "a driver," though, they'll assume you work for Uber or something, so you don't say that. But it doesn't mean you're not a driver.

Are be talking about miniature painters? Once you go past a certain level of quality and style, yes. In fact there is a whole proffesion around miniature art, going from sculpting, painting to CAD design etc.

Or are you talking about RPGs and shit?

I feel like deck construction is an art in a way. But really though, is pretty much true.

>A crafted subject

art can also be an idea user

They could be. It depends heavily on what type of game they are playing. Just as literature, film, and t.v. are considered art, any form of story telling is art. So a story heavy game that tells good and complete stories is art, and therefore those that are helping move the story forward, artists. A hack and slash combat crawl that has no explanation as to why the characters are doing what they do, and no deeper plot other than, "kill things, get loot" may not be art. Especially if this combat crawl is taken to the extreme resulting in a sort of war game like Risk. The game Risk is art, but players of Risk are not artists, they tell no story (unless they chose too) they are effectively running a data input and analysis program as they play. X happened so I should Y, player 3 did S so I'll A, my overall plan will be to acquire L.

I'm not even sure what is an "artist".

I'll say this though: I find that traditional games are the closest to the oral traditions of storytelling.

Each table remakes the long journey of good ideas and loose associations that made countless mythologies and folklore. There is no canon but what pleases your audience, incredible feats and vulgarities go along, heroes and tragedies abound.

capped for lulz

cap this in case you need some ideas for the future

Looks high as fuck

if they want to view themselves as such, sure. hope they don't expect many to share their view though.

put me in the screencap

fun toys are fun, faggot

>but that's green, prove me wrong