/anrg/ - Android Netrunner General

I wanted new bad pub options... looks like they're coming. While I'm glad, Mining Accident looks like quite some power creep to me at first sight compared with Activist Support and Frame Job.

The multiplication of powerful Virtual cards (here Caldera and to a lesser extent Dummy Box) will hopefully give Foxfire its short time to shine before rotation.

Severnius looks like a lot of fun, but I need to mess around with it a bit more. Haven't had the chance yet because I'm too busy experimenting with Smoke, my current flavor of runner.

Thank you user. Once Earth's Scion hits shelves, I'm going to make a fast advance weyland deck based around good ol' Anson Rose and Red Planet Couriers. And the agenda I'll be trying to score is government takeover. I am very excited to try and make it work.

A pity Caldera is months away. It would be nice for crims to get their feedback filter sooner rather then later.

So giving it a bit more thought... first, a good thing is that, this hitting right on the edge of rotation the power creep isn't going to plague the old cards in any significant manner.

That being said, things I don't like with Mining Accident:
- First, the lack of a downside. Frame Job demanded an agenda sacrifice. Activist Support demanded that you tag yourself. So did Perrault (not to mention the black/grayop requirement). Leverage to have any chance to work as bad pub dishing needed you to bluff a kill for the corp. A successful central run is a lot less, being something you're bound to do anyway.
- Then the escalation. AS (which is my comparison point, the cards being closest I think) was something you could counter from zero credits if needed by going take credit -> take credit -> trash a tagged runner's resource - basically passing your turn. Here you can't do that - the corp needs to be sitting on 5+ credits, not only do you lose more, you have less margins.
- Last both choices can only really be in the runner's favor (compare with SYN Attack).

Now that being said, is there an argument for a meta with more volatile Bad Pub?

Anyone that played dedicated BP decks knows that, in spite of the difficulties, they're incredibly powerful when they work.
With the more-or-less recent asset spam woes, making bad pub dishing easier actually offers a pretty interesting answer.

But then you have to do it in ways that will not also destroy the running econ balance.

We've seen already how ICE transaction value seems to have been deemed too low for a while. Too much BP would only magnify that.
So then, not only would you need a similar raise in BP removal (and post rotation I think we only have Exposé, Sacrifice, and The All Seeing I left) you would need even more power creep in ICE or upgrades than the farily controlled one we've seen so far. And I don't know that we want that long term.

I'm not digging the card much to be honest. Would have been more interesting had it not been so incredibly close to Feedback Filter, design wise.

Like I don't know, let's crazy, reverse the polarity:

Prevent one net damage: the corp may win 3 credits.
Prevent one brain damage: the corp may draw up to two cards.

You may only use Caldera once per damage source.

(Not saying it's good design, but at least it would have expanded the game instead of looking a bit stale)

From a fluff standpoint, we already have that mutually helpful (hopefully at the worst time) back-and forth between Jinteki and Crims since H&P. I think it would fit.

I keep thinking naming the card Mining "Accident" with quotation marks would have made for funny yet creepy undertones, what with not knowing whoever it is of runner or corp the implication is targeting.

Another possibility is what some players have been advocating for for a while now: positive effects that can only be used once you're past a certain level of of bad publicity.

Say, a Weyland operation that could do more damage the more BP you have would be an interesting proposition in such a meta. ICE that is more aggressive the more BP you have (well, more than Ireress). Cards working like the Seven Wonders for BP - if you have more than a certain amount, an alternative effect is resolved.

The idea of Corps going "fuck it" and dishing it all out past a certain point has both some fluff and mechanical appeal.

Gotta be careful around that one though.

Threat Level Alpha is weird. I can only wonder what kind of deck could make use of it, considering Big Brother does something similar for a much MUCH lesser cost and doesn't see use. Not needing a run is pretty strong though.

Breached Dome is great, I don't know why they thought Shock needed the second card boost though.

MCA Austerity feels like a HB Public Support, with a much stronger effect for the higher investment cost. Hitting centrals for any 5/3s stray agendas is probably a good idea if you can't get in the server for this. I also find an MCA card in HB to be interesting, and that Helium Deposit gets a mention is hilarious.

If Mining Accident becomes prevalent, I atleast hope either BP removal or positive BP effects become more varied as well. A Weyland 0 cost SEA Source you can only play with 2 - 3 bad pub would be nice, though Aaron is still a thing. "The runner is considered tagged until the end of the turn"?

Gonna agree with the user above for being too similar to Feedback Filter; it's nice, but dull. Notably almost cripplingly strong against brain damage though.

Dummy Box is interesting since it protects everything, and gives dead draws an extra use. Could be good especially in a Skorpios meta, though it does add more tech against an ID that can already be teched well against.

TLA is a SEA source that doesn't need any run involved, which can be good if the corp is rich enough to make sure the runner gets a tag (the duplication of tags like big brother is a bonus really), and immediately do something after (CA, EoI, ASE, et al).

Good to combo with MCA over 2 turns if Mr Marron is lurking about.

How much jank is too much jank

Skorpios Jank Systems

Skorpios Defense Systems: Persuasive Power

Agenda (14)
1x Graft
3x Hostile Takeover
3x Illicit Sales
3x Evidence Collection
1x Priority Requisition
3x Private Security Force

Asset (7)
1x Ghost Branch ●
1x Investigator Inez Delgado
2x Marilyn Campaign ●●
3x Mr. Stone

Upgrade (5)
2x Black Level Clearance ●●●●● ●●●●●
3x K. P. Lynn

Operation (12)
3x Beanstalk Royalties
3x Hedge Fund
1x Hunter Seeker
2x Scorched Earth
1x SEA Source ●●
2x Shipment from Kaguya

Barrier (8)
2x Hailstorm
3x Ice Wall
3x Wall of Static

Code Gate (6)
3x Enigma
3x Hortum

Sentry (7)
1x Archer
2x Colossus
2x Hunter
2x Shadow

15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
24 agenda points (between 24 and 25)
59 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Terminal Directive

When you can't see the jank, it's probably too much jank.

Ghost Branch and Colossus with Mr. Stone only deals one damage each by the way, since it's per instance of given tags, not per tag.

It's an almost certainly terrible deck built around giving the runner a million tags then scorched earth/private security forcing them to death. Added funtimes of BLC + KD Lang in the same server.

I think you can work out something usable by trimming the fat, I'm working in something similar, though not in a Core42 format. Also, I'd value Mason over Black Level Clearance so that they wouldn't have the clicks to remove tags.

(44 cards)
Skorpios Defense Systems: Persuasive Power
-- agenda (8 cards)
3 Corporate Sales Team
2 Global Food Initiative **
3 Oaktown Renovation
-- asset (4 cards)
1 Elizabeth Mills
2 GRNDL Refinery
1 Zealous Judge
-- ice (16 cards)
3 Bailiff
2 Bloodletter
2 Data Raven ****
3 IP Block ***
3 Mausolus
1 Sapper
2 Weir
-- operation (11 cards)
1 BOOM!
2 Friends in High Places **
2 Hedge Fund
2 IPO
2 Preemptive Action
2 Scorched Earth
-- upgrade (5 cards)
1 Caprice Nisei ****
2 K. P. Lynn
2 Prisec

There's Traffic Accident as well, which everyone know was unfortunate for the poor victims and no way definitely caused by anyone.

>2 Preemptive Action
How are you finding Preemtive compared to our Lord and Saviour?

Considering I don't often try and dump agendas for a reshuffle and mostly target money and Friends, they're fair, though depending on the timing you can still do that too. I'm tempted to either go down to one or lose them for more econ though, they pop up early very often and don't do anything in hand.

Jinteki's back up

Fair, I guess having only 8 agendas helps there.

How's IP block? Seems a bit meh at first glance and I can't really see how it fits in your list, though I appreciate it's cheap as chips

Really? I always liked it. AI hate barrier with etr if runner is tagged (bit hard with Aaron around, but good in tagstorm). Cheap for 4 strength 2 subs.

To be honest I haven't tested it yet and I kinda feel the same way, I've forgotten what persuaded me to use it too. You could see it as a slightly weaker Barrier-type Hunter, and if an AI is on the table (which kinda feels like there's less these days) the unconditional tag is pretty good. If I replace Caprice with Mason though I'd probably take out one for either a 3rd Raven or a HHN.

Interesting, from a symbolic standpoint that Red Dust ends the cycle. We weren't expecting the status quo to change, so Free Mars not being last doesn't surprise, but finishing with the insane transhuman religious terrorist group makes for a grim send off.

(Wouldn't it be funny that /anrg ends up right about the cycle's Shaper being a member of it too)

One good thing I guess is Mining Accident and Vamp only coexisting for a month.

>When you can't see the jank, it's probably too much jank.

No such thing.

>Breached Dome is great, I don't know why they thought Shock needed the second card boost though.

I'm finding the zero-to-trash cost makes the trade off not totally unfair.
Also fairly interested in the recent apparition in meat damage for Jinteki. Something to look out for there.

How likely do you think it is that this cycle's HB ID ends up being a dedicated click manipulation one?

I don't think they'd do that - click manipulation is VERY strong, and HB IDs historically...aren't

But it is interesting to see how there's more of it coming out, with pic related (a He3 target!) and load testing

I would like to see a shaper be part of Crimson Dust, they're far too goody-goody as a faction

We knew the pack names ahead of time, so knew the G-modded terrorists were coming, but I agree that with stuff like mining accident it looks like they're not shying away from the nasty side of it

Have to say, not a huge fan of the way this is multi-use and non-unique (especially in resource-heavy decks) - the same type limitation is cool though

Technically we already have an ID that rewards click manipulation in Seidr. Maybe brain damage focus? Would explain why Caldera is a thing.

The good news is that it and DLR are only going to have to coexist for a month, so we're not going to have to suffer the cries of anguish of some for too long.

But yeah, it does look potentially scary. I'm thinking it's really not bad when looking at the post-rotation card pool, but it does reduce the margin of error for the designers.

Guys is Crimson Dust the last pack before rotation ?

We have an id that does brain damage focus in Cybernetics Division, maybe card trashing focus? Would explain dummy box.

Yup. Rotation hits at the first pack of next cycle.

Oh yeah, big disregard from me, Seidr is definitely that, even if not what I had in mind.

What would it being unique change that you find so significant?

Because being non-unique means a pair of dummy boxes can protect each other.

Though I don't know, maybe one can protect itself

Thanks finally I can jump ship for L5R ! Great times !

>maybe one can protect itself

I would think so. It *is* an installed card like any other, and active until effectively trashed.

Very dishonorabru

Have fun, see you if/when you get back.

I so much like that card design-wise. Sad it sees so little play.

I want to include 2 Liz Mills in my decks,then I can rez her, get rid of 1,and play that to get rid of 2 bp more.
Amazing in GRNDL.

I've done that. You feel smug.

Technically Cybernetics isn't pure brain damage, just messes with hand size, even if the synergy is there. I can see a case for card trashing though.

>tfw it's about ice ala Foundry

*IF* you can manage for tags to stick, could see Threat Level Alpha be an interesting enabler for bigger Psychography.

Honestly, there is a distinct lack of crazed/very Sane scientists for the Shapers, considering how they are just the sort of fellows that would happily mess with Things Men Should Not Know.

A pity The Collective have to stay in the shadows.

>ala Foundry
Or NEXT
Or the non-ETF HB megacorp IDs

Sounds fun

GRNDL, score Hostile, score pic related for 9 and then Restore Face with Mills seems amusing

Also very thematic, seeing GRNDL was sponsored in Weyland by Mills, so her getting publicly taken down after they do shady shit fits really well

I'm just thinking what cardpool/meta conditions would foster it being played

BP being a threat.
Execs/Sysops you want to play but can afford to lose (and maybe that don't have a trash ability?)

Huh, was going to say it working on clones didn't make much sense - they're not people, they have no honour, really.

But then I recalled most (well, 2/3 as of now) clone cards are "lines" - they're offing the entire offending gene-line to restore face.
Dark

Did she get 'retired' in that novella?

Rather surprised she wasn't the face of Big W in New Angeles.

Quite the contrary, if anything.

We actually learned she sits on The Board.

Nice rotation send off.

No, but the GRNDL boss did name her to Reina, so there's a target on her back now

Weyland doesn't have a face, just executives and spokespeople.

Funnily enough, she's not even mentioned in Quorum as being in the room - Yale is, but the leader of the delegation is actually the head of Argus, Magnus Swan (guess Slee is just the head of the head-kickers)

Reminds me of pic related.
How good would expose have to be for it to be worth it?

I don't think it gets mentioned very often that Jintkei is a zaibatsu, though I know that's basically synonymous with "megacorp" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaibatsu

So I love how there's suddenly all this discussion about Bad Pub removal now but when people were discussing Blackmail close to no one could be assed to look at any of these cards, and the all of two people who did encourage exploring those options were shot down mercilessly. Now suddenly it's "Oh, look at all the design space for exploring building around bad pub removal. It's such a shame none of these things got played before."

When the only serious contender for gaining bad pub was either corp side or Val, I can see why removal isn't as necessary (and why people just grit their teeth over Blackmail instead of slotting silver bullets). Plus Blackmail is a pretty touchy card to discuss I imagine.

But taking time and cards to think about bad pub detracts from your pure efficiency, the pros don't do it, and besides BP is only relevant against one niche runner who will probably never win worlds anyway

Still, mining accident puts new value on pic related, which is cool (apparently it's a crash site memorial, still looks weirdly familiar though)

>still looks weirdly familiar though
Yeah, almost like Home

I actually played Clone retirement both to counter Val and for the easy point.
It could go horribly wrong, but most games I kept the advantage.

But here's the thing: People are *still* hopping on the Skorpios bandwagon and just insisting that Runners should have to tech for it to compensate when they weren't willing to do that on the other hand.

On top of that you had *fucking Mills* that entire time since people bring her up now. She could easily slot into decks. She shuts off Blackmail if you're really that scared of it and in the matchups where you don't have to worry about Blackmail she had the utility of being able to bulldoze things like NACH, Slums, etc. So it's not like her *only* purpose would be to stop Blackmail if you teched her in a deck.

That said it's much less about Blackmail interactions and more about the fact that these things were all options before and the people who tried to get people to look at them before were just straight up rejected.

I use her for NACH, basically lost a game the other day because I waited to use her (siphon crim)

I don't remember the discussion you're talking about, but I think that besides arguing the worth of slotting a silver bullet for a ID you may not meet, or that you may not even need it to win being a factor to it, there's also the fact that the BP removal cards are too specific and underwhelming to slot in.

Rex Campaign takes three turns, and its alternate use is getting 4 credits.

Broadcast Square has great synergy with corp BP cards, but costs 3 influence out of faction besides being useless against Val.

Expose (not sure how to do the weird e) can potentially remove a lot and has instant speed, but requires additional clicks after the install.

Mills is arguably the most useful thanks to the trash ability hitting a lot of good Runner cards.

Both Restoring Face and Witness Tampering are relatively expensive, but decent for removing two bad pub if you can get that high.

Sacrifice has little worth outside Jemison.

You don't want The All-Seeing I for bad pub removal.

If BP becomes a lot more prevalent I imagine the cards will get better looked at, regardless of how people viewed it before. In the current meta though, people value removal a lot less, and usually would rather the bad pub stick over slotting and searching for a card with a ~1/49 chance of finding solely to remove it.

Can't say I don't disagree about teching against Skorpios is a necessity, but it is very a flavour of the month thing. Once the lockout experiments are over we'll probably see it a lot less, and players will go back to hyperefficient builds.

What site do you guys use for printing proxies?

I don't, with each pack at 14€ printing proxies would be more expensive than just buying the pack