Warhammer 40k General /40kg/

I'm excited for fun boat gun boats, yes. That is one of the big aesthetics that drew me into deldar besides the wych cults.

nth for shitposting

my dudes > your dudes

StormTroopers when?!

Mhm, the idea of Nurgle is the will to avoid change and death. There's a reason people call him Papa Nurgle. They're rotting apart but they don't feel anything, they don't struggle or suffer anymore. His minions thrive on being content with their situation, and for a chaos god he's one of the least chaotic beings in existence. Everything is a cycle where the future is almost guaranteed.

Axe S+1 AP-2
Sword S- AP-3
Maul/Staff S+2 AP-1
Out of the new power weapons which do you think will be the new 'best'?

Also, I modeled some of my guys with power lances, now what?

Any else feel like flamers are going to suck at doing their job this edition?

>Pros
get full effectiveness from max range (buff)
autohit (no change)
easier to use en mass (buff)
still good for overwatch? (overwatch rules unknown)

>Cons
No ap, even 6+'s get their saves (nerf)
No longer ignores cover (nerf)
Less hits (3.5) on average than you could probably get before (nerf)
No shooting out of transports (nerf)

Sure you could rack up hits against a large target where you couldn't before, but in every other way they seem way worse. I'm struggling to think of a good reason to be excited for burna boyz.

It's honestly pretty damn awesome when I realized that. And it made sense too how they kept talking about giving Nurgle's Blessings to an empire starved of mercy, talking about how the Imperium just refuses to outright die and give in to the death and decay around them. It feels pretty dramatic in a thematic way and makes me appreciate Nurgle alot more than I used to.

Do we have a confirmation on those stats?

Death always has the last laugh, and all things decay. Papa nurgle will wait for you even if you fight it.

Those are the force weapon ones. Stands to reason power weapons will be similar if not the same.

>no shooting out of transports

This meme needs to die. I can't wait until this meme is btfo.

Is it not true? I had honestly heard it so much I assumed it was. I'll be a lot happier if I know I can shoot out of trukks.

I thought nurgles part was fear (of death) and entropy

it works with the 4 main emotion types in 40k - anger, fear, greed and lust

Yep, Nurgle is my top chaos god, followed by Slaanesh. At least the ones I'd give in to. For Slaanesh it's pretty similar, extremes in everything to where pain and pleasure are barely even different, overloading the senses with a blur of bliss. Very different approaches but the mindsets seem pretty similar.

We have constant info flowing out of GW, but they spam that idea from a rumor site. It's never been confirmed.

Considering the way toughness vs strength works now, maul will be the horde masher while sword will be to slice through elite units armour.

Axe seems like a middle of the road option that will end up not doing either very well, not enough strength to wound anything reliably and not enough AP to take down elite units, a "master of none" weapon.

Emperor's Children When

Nurgle's more about acceptance of your fate. Yeah, you'll die. Everyone does. Don't worry about it.

Ive been wondering the same thing. But considering the amount of pain flamers have caused me compared to losing my 1 unit of burnas. It might be worth it. Just more room for rokkit spam amirite?

>>Cons
>No ap, even 6+'s get their saves (nerf)
Does this really count when EVERY weapon got nerfed in the AP department? 6+ get their saves against Bolters, Pulse Rifles, Shuriken weapons, it's not restricted to Flamers.

>No longer ignores cover (nerf)
Cover itself was nerfed, though. Before it was generally a flat 4+, now hordes of 6+ save guys will probably only be getting a 5+.

>Less hits (3.5) on average than you could probably get before (nerf)
Yeah, no. The only reason anyone could get lots of hits with a flamer before was because of drop pods.

>No shooting out of transports (nerf)
Has not been confirmed, and the rumour list that was leaked with that info has been straight up wrong about more than one thing already - I'm guessing if it wasn't completely made up, it was an older version of playtest rules that has seen changes since then.

It's a faeit/nafka rumor, so you know it's 100% true. It's all based on how AoS did transports with nuDorfs.

>Brings a Titan formation to a "narrative" game
>T 20
>W 50
>SV 2+
>each
>Opponent sends fabious bile into combat with them
>he hits first due to assaulting
>hits
>wounds on 6+ (because everything can do that in 8th
>I fail my save
>His weapon is Instant Death
>Remove Titan from the field
>Remove other 2 Titans after failing battle shock

Going to l-love 8th.

>rokkit spam
I'm holding off on getting excited for that until I see the d# for rokkits. I'm guessing and hoping for something like S8 AP-2 Dd3

Axe was already statistically proven to be the best in a large variety of cases, the fuck are you talking about?

It would completely neuter some already mediocre armys like dark eldar and wagon/trukk boyz. I seriously doubt it

heres your (You) now no other retards respond to this shit

...

On the bright side, kombi-scorchaz are now fucking ridiculous if they similar stats to last edition, since that'd pretty much mean you get a heavy flamer that is always firing a shoota.

Sorry gut, I've got fresh research that statistically proves that the sword is superior to all other choice.

Glad I'm not a waac fag that didn't avoid putting swords on models!

...

>Giving him (You)s in the first place

Here's your (You)

Everytiem.

Well, you'll be Snap-shotting with the Shoota, but it does mean you can basically load a Heavy flamer onto any model that can take them.

It almost makes me want to start Orks so I can have Burna Boyz and Skorcha Nobz and just light everything on fire.

I need to save that batman gif for battleshock, not sure why I haven't.

I really like this image.

>Sorry gut, I've got fresh research that statistically proves that the sword is superior to all other choice.
Math called, it says you're fucking shit at it.

Axe is better against MEQ and several other things as well.

Despite the fact that this is bait, I'm still going to illuminate all the things wrong with it for people who are just joining us and have no idea what the rules in 8th are:

>Brings a Titan formation to a "narrative" game
Formations no longer exist, and narrative games don't mean "unbalanced games where you can do whatever you want", that's Open games

>Opponent sends fabious bile into combat with them
>he hits first due to assaulting
>hits
>wounds on 6+ (because everything can do that in 8th
We don't know everything Wounds on a 6+, it could be like SWA where you need to roll a 6 and then the 6's need a second roll of 4+ or more to stick.

>His weapon is Instant Death
No longer a thing, weapons can deal multiple Wounds per hit or even Mortal Wounds which ignore saves and don't need to roll to Wound, but you'll never be removing a 10+ Wounds model in one hit with anything.

>Remove other 2 Titans after failing battle shock
Not even remotely how battleshock works. Titans aren't going to be squadroned together and even if they were they're not going to have a Leadership lower than 7.

you mean the one from dark knight rises where that guy falls even though he wasnt punched

>MEQs
>ever being hard to kill
Tell me more.

I don't know which one it's from, newer batman all looks the same to me. But yeah. Even though I'm relatively okay with battleshock I find it hilarious as a representation.

N-nani?!

>Does this really count when EVERY weapon got nerfed in the AP department?
It kinda counts still in my mind because the point of flamers was to walk up and fuck somebody who thinks they're otherwise safe in cover. Now I could jump 10 burnas out of trukk and fail to do the damage that needs to be done to justify their points.

I guess it all depends on the points costs and other rules and such. I just don't see this as a good start for a very burna-themed army.

I am kinda excited at the prospect of forcing a ton of auto-hits on a MC, but at D1 I'm very doubtful that that niche would justify the points costs unless GW is very, very generous. I do, however, think that the multi-use combi-skorchas are going to be fun to put on my mega armored nobz.

>moving goalposts because he can't do some basic multiplication
Go back to school you mongoloid.

It's like 2% better against MEQ.

>Only 5 fire points

Fucking
Gay

...

Combi-skorchas are going to be fucking hilarious, but I think you're underestimating burnas. You have to get close but they're far more multi-purpose. They don't want a weapon that is based on the amount of time you spend measuring your units to keep them as far apart as possible.

Yeah and even more % better against most other targets. T8 for example, which is a lot of things now that vehicles are moving to Toughness.

When were the goalposts "Best weapon for killing marines"?
I'm asking what the best weapon is overall, no one is impressed by your ability to wipe away rank and file troops.

And worse against t6-7. It evens out.

>Not recognising the counter-pasta

MEQs are the most common unit in the game, if you're looking for the best weapon overall it's going to be the one that deals with those most effectively on top of still having other utilities.

Another thing to consider it that Burnas still might have their ability to function as power swords in close combat, so you can always charge the horde afterwards and ignore their cover and armor, since they'll also probably remove that dumb rule of not being able to use it twice in the same turn.

>responding at all

A power weapon is an investment, unless you're going to list tailor you're going to want a general use weapon that will give you the best over odds when fighting anything from MEQs to the infamous 8th ed titan legions.

The sword isn't that much worse than the axe, wounds of 4s vs MEQs and 5-7 on 5s while reducing power armour to a 6+ save giving MEQs only a 1/6 chance to save compared to the 1/3 of the axe.

Why do you think the axe is better?

If you respond to bait at all, you are the cancer that is killing this entire website.

But user, people who say shit like that are the losers who derail everything and take bait seriously, therefor being real problems.

>better against T4, T5, T8, T9, or absolutely anything with a 5+ save, or anything with an invuln 2 higher than its save
>worse against T6, T7
>those even out
Nah.

I think that statistically the +1 Str makes it win out in the end. But only by a small margin.

Personally still going for swords, because I hate allowing my opponents any kind of save.

>they'll also probably remove that dumb rule of not being able to use it twice in the same turn.
if they remove that rule then I'll take back everything I've said and throw burnas into every unit. ~3.5 auto-hits at S4 AP- followed up with 2/3(?) S4 AP-2/3(?) attacks hitting on 3+(?) and striking first in combat is worth a heck of a lot more than I think GW will cost them.

planning on getting one of my last games of 7th in tomorrow and came across the victrix strike force. does this detachment give an ultramarine army 7 doctrines? 3 for being ultramarines 1 from the demi company and 3 more from perfect doctrine,am i reading this correct?

>Ogryns are now viable

Abhuman regiment here I go!.

Well I mean, they already cost 10 extra points, and a Power sword equivilent on them already wasn't amazing due to the low strength and initiative.

That said, I also can't see them keeping any sort of rule like that around. Ruins the simplicity if you can't torch someone then run in to keep burning.

Being better against dreads and transports is a pretty big deal. They're also the same against guard and better against tau and sisters.

...

Why are they viable now?

I have a ton of fantasy ogres I wanted to convert, and never found the time.

Yeah they're pretty shit now , but so is everything in this edition

Not ignoring cover makes no sense as that's their entire purpose.

D6 hits is way too swingy as well.

On the bright side a unit of ten burna boys can now melt a land raider more cheaply and efficiently than ten fire dragons , so maybe their new purpose is anti tank?

a mob of 10 against a model that is T7 with 2+, assuming the "powersword" is S-user AP-3 D1, gets an extra ~4.5 wounds on the charge after ~2 from shooting for 6.5 wounds on a relative large MC.

Against T8 they start to suffer, but T6-7 they would perform very well with the new to-wound-rolls. Drop that save down to a 3+ and you're getting ~9.5 wounds on the target.

I'd say getting to use it on the charge after shooting is a pretty big deal.

>melt a land raider more cheaply and efficiently than ten fire dragons
doubtful. If landraider is T8 then the burna sucks. If it's T7 then we're in business.

Well, Burnas were always fluffed as cutting apart tanks and vehicles with them, so I certainly wouldn't mind

>Not ignoring cover makes no sense as that's their entire purpose.

That WAS their entire purpose. Every single unit is being remade from the ground up, so their purpose may change. Accept it and you'll feel better, user.

I think it's causing problems because that was their purpose in real life. Even if they end up being good at MC hunting it will feel odd/uncomfortable.

> shoot a gun at a bush. Bullets go through bush.
> shoot a flamethrower at a bush. Flames stop at bush.

Flamethrowers were good at 2 things, clearing out buildings and killing tanks. They keep the "get to shoot at unit inside a building" and they're set.

A unit of ten Burna Boyz can lay down, on average, 35 S4 auto-hits at 8" range. That is absolutely nothing to sneeze at.

People are really overreacting. I mean, really, how many times would you run a unit of ten Burna Boyz against an opponent who didn't fan everything out to the maximum 2" coherency the instant your Boyz looked at their half of the board, and how many times did you get to dump your Boyz directly into the face of a horde unit from 2" away?

>put 4+ save unit in building
>get +2 to save from cover
>flamer no longer ignores cover
>4+ save unit becomes 2+ save unit
not so great at clearing buildings anymore

No, Intuitively and in real life combat situations as well as the lore flame throwers are used to drive people out of cover.

While im aware this is hardly a simulationist game it does seem bizarre to remove things that are intuitive, especially when trying to appeal to new players and make things simple.

This would be like them deciding mortars now exist only as anti-air and can't hit ground targets or decide that lascannons are now multishot weapons for killing massed light infantry. . I.e. make no fucking sense.

If you put the unit in the building you shoot the building not the unit. That's were no escape came in.

In "real life" flamethrowers aren't being fired at people whose armor is tougher than the cover. Do you really think a flamethrower is going to force somebody wearing Terminator armor out of cover? How is that "intuitive"?

The random d6 shots is neither here or there. They already introduced this rule in the citydight rules back in like 01 because templates were a pain in the arse to use with loads of city terrain , and nobody blinked though it didn't get adopted into the wider rules set. I find them not ignoring cover anymore my main grievance.

The random d6 shots is neither here or there. They already introduced this rule in the cityfight rules back in like 01 because templates were a pain in the arse to use with loads of city terrain , and nobody blinked though it didn't get adopted into the wider rules set. I find them not ignoring cover anymore my main grievance.

Not blown out buildings, but those are less buildings and more walls with a few balconies on one side.

Flamethrowers were used to roast bunkers, pillboxes, and tanks. In 40k those don't provide a cover save, and in fact are vulnerable to flamethrower attacks.

With the mass shots at close range I can still get the flavor of it, and leaning directly against a wall that isn't an enclosed building still puts something between you and the flames.

I'm fine with them not ignoring all cover, but No Escape really fit with the concept, at least in buildings.

>no escape
I don't see any rules about that on the new weapon profile. It's d6 hits S4 AP- and thus can no longer do shit to clear units in a building.

against even basic guardsmen in a building, assuming +2 to save from cover, 10 burnas will kill 7.5 guardsmen on average.

Is nobody going to talk about how much the battlecannon absolutely sucks now? I have to assume that there is some kind of rule everyone is missing because the current mathhammer on it is terrible. It will kill less than one space marine per turn or about one wound on a 16-wound morkanaut per turn. If we consider 7ed points, a 140+ point model will average killing a 14-point model per turn. WTF.

Already represented , at least in the current rules set , by the fact a terminator is almost always going to have a better save via his armour than any cover could give him.

Flamers are for killing hunkered up blob squads in cover and units like eldar rangers with buffs to cover saves who do benefit.

If we're talking intuitive, just because you're hosing down a ruined wall with a flamethrower doesn't mean that it's automatically going to kill people on the other side. Like says, flamethrowers in WWII were primarily used to roast defenders in enclosed spaces. Flamethrowers are a jet of flame, not a magic death wand.

I do agree that I'd quite like for them to continue having special rules for attacking emplacements, but that does seem unlikely.

The points are very likely to change, or it may have a special rule which we've not yet seen. Calm down and wait for the full rules before you panic.

Buildings in 7e didn't give cover bonuses, they worked like transports.

Rip Leman Cuck. Hope you used magnets for your Russ and kept some alternatives . Games workshop sure as fuck will be releasing new ones.

okay, how do you suppose they'll work in 8th edition? If they work like cover then the flamethrower is fucked because it doesn't ignore cover. If they work like transports then the flamethrower is fucked because it doesn't have "no escape" anymore.