/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

Any good videos to watch or articles to read for playing Protrctorate well?

I'm getting shit on every game. I have Reznik 1 and Malekus. I'm looking at switching to Severius 2 or another faction all together.

I feel like all my jacks are slow and weak if I don't pick the right buffs with the choir.

Related, does anyone have a list of good Youtube channels for Warmahordes battle reports? Especially ones which aren't wholly focused on super-competitive tournament lists.

In terms of entertaining casual play, there's Guerrilla Miniature Games youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzrPO7KIAtwWPjG4brAwQf1CXFEaMNNNL

They fuck up some rules occasionally and whenever a new book or something releases go through it for 10 minutes before the battlereport starts. Just ignore or fast forward that.

>I feel like all my jacks are slow and weak if I don't pick the right buffs with the choir.

This is kinda how Protectorate works.

They're not about having the stronkest units. They're about buffing up their stuff while denying their enemy's strengths.

I'll check them out, thanks.

curious is the trapmaker's art.

I personally like Arcane Assist:
youtube.com/channel/UCj82452S8n3YCMZYXGy9_OQ

There's also Advanced Maneuvers, which has a tendency to take itself both more seriously and run less strictly competitive lists I have found (ex. Xekaar Rhinodon spam vs Skarre1 30 pre-CID Bane Knights)
youtube.com/user/Taodark

>Going in for the assassination against Denny1 Ghost Fleet
>Give Mordikaar and Cyclops Raider eyeless sight
>Raider needs 11 on 3d6 to hit, misses
>Void Spirit charges a dude to attempt to teleport behind Denny
>Needs a 7 on 2d6 to hit, misses
>Puppet Master a Ferox
>It jumps behind Denny, need an 8 on 2d6 to hit with the bite, misses
>Puppet Master it
>Misses
>Second initial
>Misses
>Mordikaar is up last
>Essence Blast the Ferox, boost the hit
>Finally fucking hit her
>3d6-1, get 6 damage on her because Denny had 1 focus
>10 boxes left
>Pop a shot at her
>Hit
>Boost damage
>Need 11 on 3d6 to kill
>Fail it
MY FUCKING GOD THE ODDS WERE SO STACKED IN MY FAVOUR JESUS FUCK WHY DID EVERYTHING MISS THAT FUCKING BITCH SHIT STAIN CASTER AND THAT FUCKING BITCH SHIT STAIN BROKEN AS FUCK LIST RRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Have you looked at Amon? He turns his jacks into rocketships with Pathfinder, and has Synergy to boot.

>counting on every model in your army for assassination instead of switching to attrition when it starts to go south
>complete lack of understanding of probability for final dice roll

I wasn't counting on every model hitting. 5 things missed, and she survived on like 2-3 boxes. If a single other thing had connected, she was dead. It's not like I was aiming for 11 on 2d6 or something.

Also you haven't played against Ghost Fleet if you think it's possible to play attrition against it. What, should I focus on trying to Revive some Ferox? Meanwhile my opponent can just Crippling Grasp them from anywhere because of arc nodes, then fire a dozen ghost shots at my now 11/15 cavalry. It is quite literally impossible to play an attrition game against Denny1 Ghost Fleet. You either kill Denny, or you lose.

Ever had a Mammoth dropped down to ARM13 and killed by half a dozen small based infantry from 100%? I have.

missing 3 50/50s isn't exactly unlucky tho

Mord's gun damage was 50/50, the Raider's shot was 50/50, the Void Spirit's attack was 50/50, and the Ferox's three attacks were ~40/60. The chance of success was very high. I wouldn't care so much if the Ghost Fleet theme wasn't so fucking retarded on top of Denny1 being possibly the strongest caster in the game.

but that chance isn't high at all?

looks like a coin flip assassination.
you lost the coin flip.

0.5*0.5*0.5*0.6*0.6*0.6 = 2.7% chance to whiff the things I did.

Seriously though when is that theme list getting nerfed?

When little bitches git gud and quit basing their whole plan on long-shot assassinations

My plan wasn't the not-so-long assassination, my plan was to just play a normal game. Unfortunately Denny1 can trade up so hard while playing a RIDICULOUS attrition game that I was forced to try to assassinate. Are you aware that Ghost Fleet is currently stomping tournaments?

Sounds like you should pack some more magic weapons

Come at me bro!

I don't think that's how probability works, my Skorne brother

I was testing my ADR list and took out an Archidon for a 2nd Soulward as well as a pair of PGMTs. Ghost Fleet just can't be beaten without either 1) ridiculous skewing, or 2) assassination.

Remember when the theme first came out and everyone said it was shit?

95% of the forum-think knee jerk reactions in this community are hilariously wrong and off-base

>bringing a colossal against Cryx/Denny 1
You're going to have a bad time, regardless of theme. Killing one giant thing trivially via stacking debuffs has always been Cryx's strong suit.

They also never really play the game. I've now played against Denny1 Ghost Fleet 5 times and haven't once felt like I could win without assassination.

>what is scenario?

It's how Ghost Fleet wins if they can't be bothered assassinating.

wtf i know the guy who painted this model

OP u play in NoVA?

I just took it from the WMH painting FB group. Sorry user, I'm not the user you're looking for.

It's really fucking beautiful though, so if you know him, give him the props of a faceless internet nobody.

o kk

was flummoxed 4 un segundo - thought i missed a secret user in the midsts ov our grewp esp. w/ the Advanced Maneuvers mention above (they play w/ our guys a decent amount of the time)

Skorne, right? Play Hexy1 and just win on attrition

If you want to beat cryx you have to bring shit that kills infantry, Boo fucking hoo.

That's gonna be gone in sr2017 sadly :(

ghost fleets problem isn't that it swarms the board w/ infantry (it doesn't - it fields 27 models in units and 3-4 high-value solos) but that A. it skews w/ specialized defensive tech on nearly every model (insanely consistent and efficacious recursion with 2-4 regenerating Revenant Crew models every turn including the WAs from 3 units and Incorporeal on every other piece barring Denny and bonejacks) which pigeonholes answer lists and forces out-of-tier options in response, effectively costing opponents 12-15 points of equitable option select in regular circumstances, and B. it leverages consistent damage-output guns which ignore LoS and most defensive tech (Pistol Wraiths, Hellslinger Phantom, Rev. WAs) via pDenny who still reigns supreme as the -4/-4 Swing Queen irrespective of her hobbled control measures w/ the nerf-equalization of Withering.

its stock will only rise in conjunction w/ the wraith engine buffs in CID (although the removal of global blast immunity for Blackbanes/Hellsinger Phantom kinda fucks it over vs. Khador Jaws builds w/ Forgeseer marshaled Destroyers now desu) and Cryx's own theme list diversity will contend w/ Khador's in terms of valuable/viable configurations when the Bane theme/alterations go live.

It's also strange how the Foreseer received lukewarm receptions in time for him to be a vital model for Khador.

Its like Khador Christmas Every Day!

Pretty lucky in that regard.

An Ossyan list that kills warjacks kills infantry just as hard.

I've been playing Rahn into Ghost Fleet recently, though, purely for assassination practice. It's also extremely fun.

well, he does look like santa claus

Is your Rahn list secret tech, or vanilla Forges of War spam?

Its a strong list no doubt but its main stength is noone is teching against it yet. Rfp helps, being able to kill a whole unit really helps, and ranged RFP fucks it over.

I'm playing around with different stuff at the moment. Tried Forges of War, and it's gud, but Rahn really misses his nasty high-damage solos like Narn and the MHAs.

It'll be better when those Shyeel arcanist troops get released, I reckon.

I used to play in NOVA with him all the time. His Ret is gorgeous.

Since objectives get selected after list selection now, blowing the Wraith Engine/Blackbanes off the table will be more consistent if needed.

I want to capture Elara and take her out for a romantic dinner in Free Llael before walking her home.

Don't forget to bring flowers and a stab resistant vest!

How does that work for their Colossal then?

It seems pretty stacked on it's own and I heard it was one of the better ones in Mk II.

I heard there is some images from NQ 72 floating around, anyone have them? I know one is of a Venator, but the other is of a paladin?

Hell, no. The good colossal isn't even on the release schedule yet, two plus years later. The Judicator is total crap now. The loss of the choir buff to hit killed the stupid short flamethrowers, and the Redeemer puts out better firepower for the points. Plus the nicely costed character jacks put out more melee damage for the price. It's just bad.

So how is Cryx in MK3?

Broken as fuck, according to this guy:
But really it's fine. Cryx is just balanced differently in MK3, discouraging bane spam, but likes it's infantry. People bitch because they can't just faceroll to win with them anymore.

I heard they also toned down all Thrall spam in general.

Always wondered if it was an attempt at making people play the pirate stuff more.

Awesome in theme, bad out of theme.

Broken, but they only have two lists.

>Infernal Machines just got buffed indirectly through buffs to Mechanithralls
>Mechanithrall spam is a legit option now

>bane thralls are getting buffed in CID
>bane theme is just spam as a legit option

Cryx is functionally just built around spam now. You either spam undead pirates, spam banes or spam thralls.

Haha no but seriously, that theme list is grotesquely overpowered in the hands of Denny1.

Maybe its almost like Denny1 is a Grotesquly designed Tumor on the whole faction of Cryx.

She's like the Crusader Equivalent of a Warcaster "No Thrills just do one thing amazingly well" which can be alright with Jacks because your paying points for them anyway, but awful with casters because you either answer or you don't.

What if PP gave her a rule saying she can't channel spells?

I don't know! Give her a redesign or something.

Like at least the Choir can be taken with every Warcaster. You can't take Denny 1 With Every Warcaster! Its the Iron Flesh Problem all over again.

But I prefer this new spam to the old Spam.

Like the Incorporeal models SUCK, but they don't do everything. Ye Olden Bane spam was "You got an answer to stealth? No? Then die". They killed everything and in turn were hard as balls to remove.

The incorporeal models now are annoying ranged killers but they are not jack smashers for instance. Even with Denny Buffs the pirate zombies do that better.

It's not the incorporeal models I care about. The sheer fact that d3+1 models in each unit come back every turn forces me to either have a way to wipe out entire units quickly, or lose the attrition war as Denny debuffs me into the dirt. The only Skorne caster who could possibly deal with the list properly is Hexeris2, who is literal hot garbage right now. Any conventional list in my faction cannot deal with Ghost Fleet.

Quick question: If you had to just kill 1d3 Models every turn would that suddenly turn the tides into reasonableville?

I have a shifty feeling that People just didn't play pirates last edition and after some bloke played Ghost fleet with Denny one time, suddenly he realized how good they were with her.

Our Skorne guy has hated cryx pirates all mk3, for what it's worth.

I feel this is Dennys Fault more than the lists. It's not an OP Theme. It's a shitty obnoxious caster.

Some people point to Sorcha, but she's in a faction with no Arcnodes and it can be shaken, and mainly hurts infantry.

Hexy1 stomps the list. It's likely the most one sided match for ghost fleet in the game.

Morg2 makes the list so sad it's not funny, his feat is a huge problem for infantry lists.

Any caster who can run the hydra well can delete entire units from the table with all those attacks and sprays.

Hexy2 is simply off meta, and the fact that he plays well into a big bad tier list(as well as into more conventional cryx as well) means he's got a pretty good purpose.

Hah I forgot Hexxy even had a feat. Doesn't negate that Skorne's best casters into it are some of our worst offerings for everything else.

Non-character Dire Troll with reach when

When the sun goes supernova, then collapses into itself and forms a black hole sucking the solar system into it

I just have to puke seeing Cygnar palyers flaunting around with their op Stormwalls. I wish the Judicator had some cool shit but its reasonable ability has changed to future sight.

I really hope the Judicator goes under CID someday. It's a cool model but the Revelator is just better.

>Non-character dire troll that costs less than 15 when
>Non-character dire troll that has 17 P+S when
>Non-character dire troll with arm 19 when

Morg 3 would also be an effective option. Blind makes key units real sad and you can just feat and go for denny herself, if you feel the need.

Do people complaining about Revenants realize that if you RFP the Quartermaster, the unit can't replenish anymore?

Yes, because RFP is a common ability to have across all faction and definitely worth teching for.

Warmachine is quite simple, really. You just need to come up with a list pairing that can handle Harkevich and Amon's Jackskew, doesn't get mowed down by Winter Guard Rocketeers, isn't spell-assassinated on turn 2 by Rahn, can in some way midigate Wurmwoods feat, have a way to remove buffs from Stormlances and prevent recursion shenanigans.

Oh and you somehow have to find a way to beat Convergence, who are secretly the best faction in the game, but nobody knows why or how, except for the three people playing them.

Trolls aren't about heavy beasts. Use their deadly light beasts and ranged infantry!

Tbh axer and bouncer are golden standard for lights. Elementals are beyond hope for ever being good though. Impaler needs a revamp to be purely ranged, like losing set defence but gaining powerful attack and rof2. If that is too much he could lose crit slam for that as well.

Swapping the crit effect for Powerful Attack and going down to 9 points would be dez.

I suppose the real issue is that no matter how good the troll's lights are, at the end of the day they are still lights.
>Elementals are beyond hope for ever being good though
If you give the Slag Troll back it's old animus and give the Pyre Troll the ability to cast it's animus on others again, they'll start seeing play.

On that note, why is the Impaler so expensive?
It's one of the most expensive non character lights in the game, and for the life of me I don't understand why.
Maybe there was some synergy they used during testing that we still don't know about?

It's combined arms, so it pays that tax. It has a boostable gun with a crit effect and it's a warbeast so it ignores a whole host of effects that a warjack would get wrecked by, like crippled systems for instance. It fits a similar role as the Charger but pays a bit more for being both more flexible and having the ability to buff the damage on its gun with simple strength buffs. I could see it being rof2 or even reload[1] though easy.

You are forgetting that it needs to boost attack to hit a heavy and boost damage to kill a solo. It can't cripple one system of a light jack with that tootpick even when fully boosted.

Because Ragnor has 30 warbeast points and battleboxes must be 0 points

I'm considering starting Skorne now that they aren't outright unplayable, and I really like the model for Zaadesh2. The only problem is I can't really figure out for the life of me how to build a list around him.

Is Zaadesh just crap? Or is that Skorne in general are still crap?

Zaadesh2 is one of Skorne's most competitive casters.

>Titan Sentries having Defensive Strike, Retaliatory Strike, and Countercharge simultaneously
>all at MAT8 P+S18
>crap

Zaadesh is a pretty great warlock. He's practically impossible to shoot off the board and has one of the game's few defensive feats that can't be easily countered.

>it's a "/tg Is Bad at Warmahordes" episode

Tbf, "no conversions" is a rule in Steamroller as you may not convert any model in a way that uses any IP that isn't explicitly owned by PP which does indeed include your own. No one would enforce that, but it's there.

Is Chain Attack worth going premium for?

I'm really curious about their new Fyanna2 episode, but not $20 curious just for it.

Who else haunts warmachine related forums to read about models and fluff but hasn't played in years and probably won't ever play again?

Not me, friend.

I've followed the game since Hordes MKI, have never played a single game.