Should a shield be considered a weapon, or armor?

weaponized armor

It is a weapon that is designed to block.

It depends on what system you are using, and what type of shield you are talking about.

A big old old chainmail and shieldwall-era shield, or ancient greek deep-dished hoplite shield is more like a piece of cover that you hold up between yourself/your mates and your opponent, stopping them from effectively striking at your body.

A buckler on the other hand is more like a weapon, that has the added benefit of blocking your opponents line of sight when you get in his face with it, preventing him from effectively defending himself against your next strike.

Neither one is simulated well in most rpgs.

If you want to give it a go, give a shield a passive number for how much of you it covers when held normally (relevant against arrows and random wild hits) and another stat line that's more in line with a weapon, for use with parrying or attacking.

Most rpgs are shit at abstracting armour, defense and injury anyway, so you are wasting your time.

How about one asks the old masters which dual welded side swords?
wiktenauer.com/wiki/Giacomo_di_Grassi

>OF THE SWORD AND BUCKLER
>Forasmuch as the Buckler is a weapon very commodious and much used, it is reason that I handle it next after the Cloak. For my purpose is, to reason of those weapons first which men do most ordinarily use, then of those that are extraordinary and less accustomed, discoursing upon each of them, as much as is requisite when I come unto them. Therefore I will first consider of the Buckler, therewith proceeding orderly.
>First his form, as much as appertains to this Art. Next the manner how to use it, giving to every man to understand that the Buckler and other weapons (which are said to be weapons only of warding) may also be of striking, as I will declare in his proper place.

>OF THE SWORD AND TARGET, CALLED THE SQUARE TARGET
>From whence it has come to pass, (because it seemed convenient unto the Professors of this Art) that this weapon was very commodious and profitable, aswell for his fashion, as for it is a mean or middle weapon, between the buckler and the round Target: That they have framed a special kind of play therewith, although it differs from the other two weapons in no other thing then fashion.

>OF THE SWORD AND ROUND TARGET.
>And considering only that thing, in the round Target, among all weapons which may profit or hurt in the handling thereof, I say, that the said round Target has been diversely held, borne and used, by diverse men in diverse ages, aswell as the other square Target, and other weapons of defense, as well as of offense. And there want not also men in our time, who to the intent they be not wearied, bear it leaning on their thigh as though that in this exercise (in which only travail and pains are available) a man should only care for rest and quietness.

>Learn how to use your damned swords and shields
>Don't forget you can hit the bastard with your shield
>Who the hell cares what shape it is so long as it stops people stabbing you and you can smash people with it
>Keep your FUCKING GUARD UP you cocksuckers if this was a fucking battle you'd die in three seconds I don't care if your arm hurts this is a battle you little shit
I like this guy.

>Should a shield be considered a weapon, or armor?
yes

Let me shill for a recent /v/idya here which is one of the only games I've played where shields have felt useful.

A while back there was a game called Expeditions: Conquistador. It had an interesting setting and marriage of types of gameplay but it was very much an unpolished gem. Fast forward to now and we have Expeditions: Viking which has greatly expanded the RPG and character customisation elements.

In Vikings the primary way your character will attack is with weapon skills. You put points into some different weapon types: Sword, Axe, Dane-axe, Knife, Spear, Bow, Sling, Unarmed, Throwing and SHIELD. Now in Conquistador these didn't exist and shields just gave you a random block % chance vs. attacks.

In Vikings you have a flat block % when you equip a shield. Shields as a skill are governed by a character's endurance, when you put points into shields your block chance increases in line with your endurance. Each shield has a set durability that increases with better quality shields: blocking melee attacks damages shields, blocking ranged attacks doesn't. There are 5 ranks to each weapon: 1, 3 and 5 also give you an active ability: rank 1 of shields gives you Brace, an ability which lets you fully restore your shield's durability 1/battle. Rank 3 gives you Defend, a stance you can take where your shield can't be damaged at all. Rank 5 gives you Shield Bash, an attack that knocks the enemy back and has a chance to make them fall over.

I'm delighted by how NECESSARY shields are in this game. A tanky character with a shield and a high block is really fucking effective! And archers in this game are ferocious, but shields are the most effective method of defense/action denial to archers. So you actually want pretty much everyone carrying a shield at the start of battle, even if they won't use it to attack. They're a highly defensive weapon and I'd love to see them as effective as this in a PnP.

Should a parrying dagger be considered a weapon, or armor?

Neither, it's an accessory.

Arms and armour.
Arms are what you hold, armour what you wear.

If a shield isn't a weapon explain this.

Fantasy

Are those frying pans?

It does depend partially on the shield - some shields simply aren't meant to be used as a weapon. They're too heavy to be easily swung at a guy, or they're too light - some ancient shields were wicker shields meant to block arrows, not to smack someone with.

I don't think shields are handled realistic in D&D.

Shields can break, or stuck enemy weapons on it, apart from also being used as a weapon. A bonus to AC is shit mechanics.

Neither.

Well, for the "break" there is the whole sunder mechanics.
Shield ar decent in D&D, you can stun, bullrush, daze, increase AC and all sort of stuff.
Just, the increase in AC often do not make them worthy compared to 2WF or 2HF.

You hold it in your hand rather than wearing it so I'd say it's more "Weapon" than "Armor", considering maybe some game distinguishes such and then you have arguments about weather you can have a shield with a two-handed weapon or wield two weapons while having a shield because "it's ARMOR", better to categorize things as mutually exclusive wargear option than have to hardcode in limitations as special rules.

I think they are

Absolutely.
Notice how his pauldron is a furnace door, and his codpiece is a shovel.

Even when 'bolds fuck around they don't fuck around.

And an oven door. And shovels.

Shields are more of an augmentation to active defense than passive defense. Not armor.
Shields are shields.

weaponized frying pans

>Browse through that wiki
>Find this
fucking christ

the sword cracks me up

>MB
I like how both of their faces communicate the 'Oh God this was a bad idea I don't wanna die!"

Nice frying pans, nerd

Well...this in a nutshell.

Think of shields as offering an OBSCENE bonus to parry to the point that you can plausibly just duck behind your shield all day and be fine under most circumstances.

Oddly enough it was the Smaller shields that were the most offensive. Not saying that 22 lbs of steel and wood wouldn't hurt but a small steel buckler was way easier to score hits with.

Are those...frying pans on his wrists?

Hang on, are those shovels on his waist?

Wait a sec, are those Shields on his leg?

Is This A Ladle I See Before Me?

He has a shovel on his dick. what a badass

>Wait a sec, are those Shields on his leg?
Shoulderpads actually.

Go to the PDF share thread, download Mythras. That is how shields work.

The shovel is protecting his utensils, including sharp ended forks, tongs, and knives.
Which are unfortunately placed next to his genitals.
Mistakes.

>Exposed toes. For what.

EXTRA GRIP

They can be deadly

It should be considered a shield. What do I win?

Larger image.

So I have some actually experience with this topic

Shields are absolutely weapons, now most people, when I say this think of using it as a straight on push/bullrush with the shield held defensively in front. But guess what faggots, the hard, reinforced edge of a shield is fucking dangerous, slam that motherfucker into the face of anyone & it'll ring their bell. Using a shield is so much more than turtling behind it & swinging around it. You can hold your shield perpendicular to your chest, & hold it out from you to deny most of your opponent's attacks from the side, swivel it up & to the side like a table to block an over head blow while thrusting up with your weapon hidden, etc. Tons of possibilities.

Shields should be weapons with a defensive bonus to parry & a bonus as cover versus ranged attacks when actively defending. WFRPG 2nd did shields well

Keep your shield busy & don't be afraid to bash them with the side of your shield.

it's a shield

>when I say this think of using it as a straight on push/bullrush with the shield held defensively in front.
No, I don't. I think of someone on the floor, and then the shield user raises his shield and hits the guy on the floor right on the face with the shield's borders, decapitating him instantly.

>WFRPG 2nd
post pdf

Shit, that was supposed to say "most people think"

But good job user, that is good shield use

Check the warhammer fantasy general.

>Verily, surf's up, brethren.