Planeswalkers Ruined Magic

This is either bate, or OP is a glorious faggot.

They ruined the story but there fine in the game, it's just a new way for decks to attack and defend themselves. Just adapt or play a different format.

Of course it's bait, but when does that stop us? We're all trolls role-playing trolls trolling role-playing trolls.

>and you could see decks built around largely all DnD encompassed

...

The real problem with Planeswalker is the rarity. They should include more planeswalkers, at rare rarity (even uncommon if possible) and more per edition. Make it feel like a real card type, not a special snowflake thingy.

And more cards that interract with them of course.

But 'Walkers are meant to be rare.

If everyone is a Planeswalker, what's the point?

that would fuck up limited and be a nightmare to design. Creatures, burn spells, oblivion ring effects, kill spells, there are plenty of ways to interact with them.

As long as the current team is in charge that'll never happen. Planeswalkers at anything but mythic means limited becomes "who gets the most on color walkers" which they will never allow.

Just another reason why limited is shit.

Well, everyone playing the game is already a planeswalker, and you're likely to see them also calling in other planeswalkers every match too...

The actual problems that slowly drag MtG down are Mythic Rarity and the NWO.

Rare was rare enough on all accounts for the longest time. All it did was introduce another level to chase rares which, in the end, resulted in another level of chase rares in form of Treasures, Masterworks and their ilk. The rarity does absolutely nothing for Limited, there have and always will be bombs that completely wreck if you pull and draw them. All that Mythic did is make some of those bombs rarer.

NWO is just using "complexity" as an excuse to castrate the Common and Uncommon slots.

Limited is pointed to as the bad guy, but it's really just an excuse used by Wizards to justify their shitty practices. Limited players don't want garbage cards any more than constructed players do. High powered formats have always been amongst the most fun limited environments and WotC has demonstrated time and time again that they are completely incompetent at crafting Limited.

You're the first person to post "NWO" I've seen that was actually talking about the NWO and not some delusional "le tappening XD" nonsense.

I would argue that the root cause below all root causes is that the defacto standard format is extremely small. Don't bother counting the cards in sets, constructed viability narrows down standard formats to less than a hundred cards. The result is a fragile format that doesn't have the card pool in needs to survive a few cards being overachievers.

A card like gideon AoZ would have never been a problem in many other standard eras. The sets are just getting smaller and constructed viability rates are going down. What wizards is doing is the equivalent of putting a large shark in a tiny aquarium and then being surprised when it eats everything and shits so much that it poisons the water and dies in its own filth.

Cards like thraben inspector should not be abberations. Wotc badly needs to relearn that simple can also be impactful.

The fundamental issue is that TCG do not work. Being modular and balanced work against each other. The less modular the game is, the harder it is to build a working deck from random cards. The more modular the game is, the more things development has to account for.

>prove me wrong
Why do trolls always announce when they're going to troll people?

The problem with MtG is that rarity signifies power level rather than uniqueness. It unbalances the game.

Planeswalkers are shit because they basically say "Gain X life and the opponent has Y turns to deal X damage or else you win".

If your deck folds that hard to walkers why don't you fix your deck or add some sideboard cards?

I'm not a magic player, but are you saying that they have a limited set for that format and they release overpowered shit for it?
I thought the point was to release balanced nerfed shit so every card would see play at a good frequency.

I wouldn't mind different occurences of the same walker in one extension. The name rule would be enough. Also that's nothing but a cheap explanation by WotC. Just re-use older walkers instead of creating tons of new ones.
Add more of cards able to interract with them instead of lazy "burn spell with the new keyword" and "draw spell with the new keyword" etc.
They wanted a new cardtype, they should work on it.

I would rather more planeswalkers work like Vraska, in being weird utilities that aren't necessarily crazy good. Put them in a supportive role design wise, not a core one.

That said, that's just my two cents on the matter. I think they're fine, but I do wish they had actually came out during Future Sight when they were scheduled to.

Cardfight vanguard tried to slay the modular sacred cow and give individual "colors" powerful things to do, knowing they wouldn't have to worry about degenerate mixing. The reception has been very mixed in the states. It turns out people can be very attached to the illusion of freedom.

It is because of the terrible anime esthetic.
I would love to play the game if it had generic looking anime art (and I could find a tolerable person to play with)

it all depends on your areas meta and the format. In mine there are almost never any planeswalkers played

everyone hates seeing the same walkers over and over again and I think wizards is finally getting that they just make their sets so far ahead buy the time the figured it out they had already made a few blocks. Why do you need more ways to interact with them? There are already plenty and things that just deal with walkers would be shitty super narrow cards that nobody would play anyways.

I'm not sure about "ruined," there were a lot of factors that led to Magic going down the shitter. Planeswalkers are objectively bad design though. They're uninteractive, unintuitive, have an incredibly narrow design space compared to all other permanent types, dilute the concept of the Planeswalker as player, and encourage the constant shilling of the same group of characters no one likes. Gerrard, for as long as his run was, only had one creature card. Jace and Chandra have something like ten planeswalkers.

>implying casual isn't the most fun and completely busted format

Am I missing something? I honestly saw more emrakul being played in the pro tour than I saw any planeswalkers. Are they seriously getting to be that common to the point where they are becoming a problem?

This is a troll thread

emrakul and planeswalkers are all terrible. ban all pay to win cards desu

I was gonna write you a blog but basically just git gud.

MtG is just planning to win and if one card fucks your plan that badly, you did not plan well.

What decks even play planeswalker as a 4 of besides Jund? I don't play standard so I guess it's probably worse there with Gideon Tribal.

This

Creatures have their tribe, and the game is built around them. Planeswalkers are utility that could be built into creatures.

The only planeswalker in standard is gideon aoz. Everybody else just might make a cameo from time to time.

lotv is the only planeswalker in modern until they unban jtms. A very distant second is jace beleren in timewalk deck.

mardu vehicles, or more appropriately, gideon + heart of kiran, 1cmc white creatures, and then splashing red/black for unlicensed disintegration and scrapheap scrounger.

Also, modern has a legit gideon tribal deck that's solidly tier 2 as it shuts down a couple archetypes and can be a pain in the ass for a large number of others to deal with.

Otherwise, yes, most decks run planeswalkers as 1 to 3-ofs.

Even when I was christian, I fucking hated that side of the bible, where they glorified stupidity by going "Ohh, look at those fucking greeks who have "philosophers" and "science", well what use will their "logic" and "reason" be in HELL?"

Planeswalkers are fine.
WotC's resistance to printing reasonable Planeswalker removal is not fine.

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>What wizards is doing is the equivalent of putting a large shark in a tiny aquarium and then being surprised when it eats everything and shits so much that it poisons the water and dies in its own filth.

That was the most beautiful thing I have ever read here.

If you have to replan your whole deck just because of one card then something is wrong.

Hm. This intrigues me.

My problem with Magic is every set after that Japanese one. I like creatures being creatures and spells being spells. Just old fashioned that way. Then there was a glut of creatures that were shit except for spell effects, and spells that spawned creature tokens.

I like the cards, I love the worldbuilding, but Planeswalkers can suck a cock and so can the actual gameplay.

A backburner daydream of mine is to run a MTG roleplaying game, where the party quests for mana and recruits creatures and combat is resolved with MTG rules, but that's very hard to do with everydamnthing is just there to be tapped for some effect that makes no in-universe sense outside of the game.

So. Commons are simpler again? Do tell.

I've been thinking of making a Hexen mod based on the flavor of the pre-revision era, just because I can't get my fix for the kind of fantasy MTG used to represent anywhere else, and I'm certainly not interested in the SuperTeens Planar Themepark Power Hour they've been pushing for the last decade. I've been buying up the old non-canon pre revision books to get inspiration and it's amazing how the quality of writing and worldbuilding has changed over time.

Rest in Peace nigga

I don't know about that. Much of the lore was pretty hamfisted when it wasn't paraphrasing DnD source/campaign books.
The whole thing revolving around Urza and the Weatherlight was decent for the most part, if questionable at other times.

I think the thing that annoys me the most about the whole superhero squad shit they're trying to pull isn't just that the plots develop in an extremely linear and predictable manner, that the core five are 'stupid good' (sans liliana, who fills the 'bad girl' trope to a T), in the sense they kill and instigate large-scale destruction while still claiming to be good, but that they never change. There's no character development.
The plot of magic has devolved into superhero bad-guy-of-the-week levels of storytelling.

>There's no character development.
What's especially sad about that is that, up until Origins, they were actually doing pretty well at having arcs for the various planeswalkers.

Sarkhan had a pretty good fall from Vol to The Mad, was seen trying to reconnect with his ideals in Dragonspeaker, and then came to a kind of epiphany in Unbroken which got completely gutted in the subsequent stories for DTK, but DTK was a clusterfuck in general.

Elspeth was shown as defending her adoptive home in Knight-Errant, crusading against the threat that haunted her childhood in Tirel, and seeking some kind of higher purpose in Sun's Champion. Each chapter of her story was another step in her decline, as she grew more and more disillusioned.

Hell, even Jace grew over his various appearances, from a blackmailing street mage to something vaguely resembling a responsible adult.

It's actually pretty disappointing how much the Gatewatch chicanery involved them dropping everything in order to ape comic book storytelling, especially given that comic books have the advantage of multiple imprints. If I don't want to read about Thor this month, I can read about the X-Men instead. But Magic only has one line of releases, so everything follows the Jacetice League.

>implying the people who play casual play it to be able to use whatever cards they want and not to throw together literal piles of cards that couldn't even beat a precon

>ruined the story
This seems to imply it was good at some point.

Big problem I see is wizards are making cards sets so far in advance from now, years even. So when something sucks and goes wrong, they can't fix it in "the next set" because they are a year out or more and we have to stic with the shit sets until it hits their set 4 sets from now... meaning if something fails, they can't change things ever.
Shit WOTC just said they were gunna bring back old PW and new ones over the 50 PW's that gideon and tow have collectively... Weren't we sick of that a while ago?

And this is caused because the game requires so much testing, which is because it's too modular, which is because people want to be sold the illusion that they are smart enough to "invent" a new deck type.

I actually usually don't lose to them in my playgroup. They are simply annoying in general because they fuck up game tempo and there isn't a very good precedent in place to make them less impactful. My issue was more with mythic rares simply being flat out better than uncommons, like the same card for lower cmc. It is an obvious ploy for more money

The idea of NWO in and of itself isn't a problem. After all, it came about when they found out people were having trouble due to how much shit there was to track at any one point because of the stuff at common. You can have very strong cards at common AND have them not be complicated - Lightning Bolt is exceedingly uncomplicated and common-worthy according to NWO. And it shouldn't affect any other rarity at all, beyond making uncommon a bit MORE complicated, according to the initial statements about it.
The problem is that Development keeps trying to play stuff safe and nerfs everything and is afraid of power in general, so the few things they miss/do push get out of control. We're not allowed to have fucking doom blades - again, perfectly reasonable, uncomplicated common card - at all because Development thinks we need to have less removal in general.
Fuckers have their heads up their asses and have no idea what they're doing.

>And this is caused because the game requires so much testing
No. It's caused by the printing and distribution of the game. The problem is literally the opposite of what what you said. By the time a set is released the next one is already at the printers and can't be changed no matter how much WotC realizes they made a mistake in the first one.

>All that Mythic did is make some of those bombs rarer.
You're just as likely to pull a specific mythic today as you were in pulling a specific rare in old sets. Normal rares only became more common.

One of the things ruining magic are Mythics where the only thing "Mythic" about them is a CMC 2 lower than it would have been if it were printed at another rarity.

>Waaaaaa, this children's game that I used to play as a child is less fun as an adult.

Protip: it has nothing to do with adding planeswalkers and everything to do with the fact that you got old.

mythic rare is only an issue from a cost of entry standpoint. The Mythic rare cards being printed at the same rate as regular rare cards wouldn't affect that actual playability of contructed formats and would only make drafting worse with the balancing issues.

Wizards have a better idea about what it takes to make Magic successful than you or I do.

>Wizards have a better idea about what it takes to make Magic successful than you or I do.
Which is exactly why they rolled back on rotation speed and are bringing back core sets because of declining sales.

Mythics are fine I don't know what you're talking about.

>everybody keeps saying the power level of new cards is too low
>each new set has cards played in modern or legacy

>Using pushed mythic rare creatures and design mistakes as examples of why modern Magic is perfectly healthy

>make a set of 200+ dogshit filler cards
>carefully make a few good mythic cards and push the power of them far beyond the mana cost
>one of those cards is good enough per set to be played in other formats

Wow, dude, I take it back! WotC is back baby!

Maybe mythics shouldn't be designed as "better cards" and then they wouldn't fucking affect limited formats

This isn't that hard of an idea

You either increase the power of commons or decrease the power of the rares or both. Putting Mythics on a pedestal and saying oh it's okay for this card to be a complete house in limited because its rare dude gives me cancer. Ever play a kaladesh draft where the opponent curves into Green Gearhulk or the Consul Flagship? You probably lose on the spot about 99% of those games.

It's just plain bad design from WotC

...

Yup. I cracked Arlinn Kord at Eldritch Moon prerelease.
Also drew a 2cmc mana dork werewolf.

Was able to windmill slam her down turn 3 with the dork, on the play.

Was a good game.

what makes magic stupid is how they refuse to print good commons anymore.

there used to be a time when you had 1 or 2 commons every set that could hold there own against rares easily.

>Eldrazi Winter was probably the worst Magic has been recently
nah, cat combo was easily worse

Agreed.
Fuck 5cmc 3/3 flying creatures.
Fuck 4cmc 4/3 vanilla's

ESPECIALLY when there's a strictly better card in the same set at higher rarity. Shit is so frustrating.
In kaladesh, you have Smugglers Copter, a rare. You also have Sky Skiff. Google both those cards. Tell me it isnt bullshit.

*blocks your path*

Eldrazi was MUCH more oppressive in modern

The only reason Cat Combo was even bad is because of how fucking weak standard is now

ya but who actually cares about modern? 90% of players cant even afford to play that dog shit format because wizards refuses to reprint worthwhile cards. they should unban that deck and let everyone in that shit format suffer forever

They keep reprinting them though

Playing devil's advocate.

You can't have draft vanillas be viable in constructed without having an extremely weak standard, and that results in even worse problems. It's important to let hill giant and grizzly bears have their niche and not blame them for the sins of the developers.

On the other hand, when only 5-10 commons out of a set see any play, that's a problem. WotC desperately needs to marry simplicity with impact so that sets are less anemic.

Modern isn't that expensive

If you keep up with standard for whole year I guarantee you'll spend more then a medium price modern deck

It's so cancerous keeping up with the new pushed cards

>oh that Gideon is completely busted I guess I'll shell out 120 for a playset so I can live in standard
>Oh Emrakul is kinda dominant I'll need a few of those
>Torrential gearhulk? Well if blue is good I guess Ill drop another 100+ on that too

Now if you play zombies you need a 100+ dollar playset of hey a mythic 2 drop zombie and you wanna play Marvel you'll need to drop another 100 dollars on some Ulamogs.

I don't know why people put themselves through that to play such a bad format

they reprint like 10 expensive cards like every two years and it barely dents the price of modern. the fact that you cant play modern for less than like 700 bucks on average kills the formats viability completely. give it another 5 years and modern will be dead along with legacy

>700 bucks

You mean the price of say two standard decks? Wow...how insane..literally nobody can afford that

>Modern isn't that expensive
nigga what? for the price of a single modern deck i could buy the zombies deck that just won the pro tour 6 times over and still have enough money left over for a bag of coke and a hooker

modern is ridiculously expensive and too prohibitive for 90% of the player base to play

mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-mono-black-zombies#online

except that isnt true

>#online

Wow, if you go to paper it's about...$357? Sounds like almost half of say 700 dollars right?

an what i you want to play jund? or deaths shadow? or any of the other top tier decks? unless only one to play so shit like affinity or burn yous looking at spending double

>zombies deck that just won the pro tour 6 times over

That deck isn't as cheap as you think it is you fucking retard

You realize that only like 10% of the playerbase plays any sort of sanctioned format at all, right? Something like 90% of players are pure casual.

Let's see both Affinity and Eldrazi Tron are about 700 and they are tier 1. Storm and Dredge is under 500 and starting to pick up results. Still for around 700 you could also try Titanshift, Ad Nauseam, UW control, Burn, Merfolk etc.

>b-but I can't play Jund and that's all that matters

k

Have fun buying your 350$ mono black zombies deck that will be worth half of that in a few months.

a large amount of people who dont compete in sanctioned events only dont because they cant afford to play those events. if money was no object id be playing legacy every chance i got at tourneys

>[citation needed]

This. Development is the actual cause of magic's cancer (that and the jacetice league but hopefully the fallout from that decision will lead to a change for the better). How the fuck can you have a group of former "pros" testing a format for two years and miss felidar combo, but need everything remotely resembling reasonable answers into the fucking ground?

>Legacy
You're poor, but at least you have patrician taste. I hope that you find a way to enjoy magic that you can afford and have a blast doing it.

I was only pretending to be retarded-
NANI???

>How the fuck can you have a group of former "pros" testing a format for two years and miss felidar combo
Because they don't test the same format for two years. Cards are constantly changed, removed from, and added to their playtest file.

this

>Have fun buying your 350$ mono black zombies deck that will be worth half of that in a few months.

Not him but as much as i want to play Legacy/Modern i don't have that money to pay upfront.

>Planeswalkers are objectively bad design though.

Daily reminder that even Richard Garfield disliked Planeswalkers and said that they were way too complex.

That they have narrow design space is hilarious due to how they work.

>Fuck 5cmc 3/3 flying creatures.
>Fuck 4cmc 4/3 vanilla's
So tired of seeing these cards.

They're always just that. No additional abilities or just abilities that are completely fucking irrelevant.

There was that 4CMC 3/3 that gets ETB {E} and you pay {E} to give it flying. Between both Kaladesh sets every fucking color except Black got a Hill Giant that had some stupid {E} keyword ability.

Amonkhet is the worst set of them all. It's a fucking Core Set. Look at those fucking cards they've printed. They are the most generic shit on the planet.

Let me be completely fair here, Innistrad 1.0 was just as fucking useless as Amonkhet is now. Yes, the Limited was good and so was the flavor but otherwise it was a completely bankrupt set as far as complexity goes. Avacyn Restored was all that except significantly worse.

I believe MaRo when he says they start with a set skeleton and fill in the details. Except now I realize they're not filling in any of the fucking details.