Pathfinder General /pfg/

1.5x a modifier to damage shouldn't belong on Dexterity, but that's just my opinion.

Not usually, because all the non-magical effects you could use, they are still immune to those.

Saving two feats (remember, Weapon Finesse for free is just a houserule), STR is easier to boost than DEX is, and your AC getting improved can be bought with money (just get better armor) rather than through your starting point-buy. Your initiative can also be mollified by a trait, rather than needing a 14 in DEX.

>'Well you killed Robbie, but no hard feelings.'
Can a legend like The Rotten truly die?

isn't there some black seraph thing I can use?

I have to agree with
There is only one reason to go strength, and that is superior damage.

>As for weregild that doesn't fix their dead friend unless they can squeeze the party for 25k gp since the party dumped the body in a river so that no one would be able to find it later. Even the finding someone who can cast true res is essentially impossible.
Neither does beating them up, and while revenge is sweet, gold lasts longer.

Friendly reminder that in basically ALL /pfg/ games, Weapon Finesse is free.

Everyone gets an elven curve blade with that one wayfinder + ioun stone and then goes to town because they have to take only Deadly Agility after that.

You save feats and aren't stuck with Piranha Strike and its no benefits for 2H unless Dexguy had 13 STR to get it instead.

>talks about pfg standards
>casually mentions to use an item that'd cost 100% of WBL for a level 3 character, the level that most of those same pfg games start at
s h i t b u i l d

Remind me again why I want Power Attack when I don't want to miss, because my hits deal like +2d6 energy damage from Elemental Flux Stance? And I can take Discipline Focus for +2 damage and +2 DCs?
You ARE in Elemental Flux Stance after the errata, right?

DUDE
GREENHOUSES
LMAO

One cancer didn't kill him and another shan't finish the job either.

Why are you missing with PA?

Not like you have much else to spend it on, eh? Mulebacks are only 1k.

>Friendly reminder that in basically ALL /pfg/ games, Weapon Finesse is free.
And an asshole's reminder to you that /pfg/ games are NOT what people balance around when it comes to creating rules, and that we're a minority in the Pathfinder pool of design. What we like and what other people like/want are very different things; did you know that a lot of people don't like Legendary Vigilantes? I know, weird right?

Because the GM is putting you against overCRed fights just to keep up with Path of War.

It's 100% of WBL at 3rd, so that elven curved blade you want to use, the armor you'd wear or literally anything besides the one ioun stone you couldn't buy. How useful is an EWP if you can't even afford the weapon itself?

Seems legit.

Actually fuck off m8

Got a list of shit from the Adventurer's Guide here. Don't be too surprised if you recognize a *lot* of it.

>Archetypes
Aldori Defender (Fighter)
Argent Voice (Bard)
Armiger (Fighter)
Bellflower Harvester (Vigilante)
Bellflower Irrigator (Rogue)
Blossoming Light (Cleric)
Brazen Deceiver (Bard)
Brazen Disciple (Monk/Unchained Monk)
Crimson Chymist (Alchemist)
Curator (Occultist)
Dashing Thief (Swasbuckler)
Devil Binder (Unchained Summoner)
Enlightened Bloodrager (Bloodrager)
Geminate Invoker (Barbarian)
Giant Stalker (Barbarian)
Involutionist (Spiritualist)
Halcyon Druid (Druid)
Lantern Lighter (Ranger)
Lore Warden (Fighter)
Magaambyan Initiate (Arcanist)
Magic Warrior (Magus)
Mantis Zealot (Warpriest)
Masked Maiden (Vigilante)
Name-Keeper (Shaman)
Qadiran Horselord (Cavalier)
Raven Master (Ranger)
Ringleader (Bard)
Rostland Bravo (Swashbuckler)
Runesage (Wizard)
Scion of Talmandor (Paladin)
Sigilius (Magus)
Sister-in-Arms (Cavalier)
Storm Dreamer (Medium)
Sunrider (Druid)
Tempest Druid (Druid)
Totem-Bonded (Hunter)
Toxic Talon (Rogue)
Winding Path Renegade (Brawler)

>Cavalier Order
Order of the Asp

>Equipment
Aldori Dueling Sword (20 gp)
Anderos Salve and Mulibrous Tincture (5 gp)
Applecheek (10 gp)
Boniface Paint (15 gp)
Branding Iron (2 gp (common), 10 gp (custom shape))
Breath of the Mantis God (1,500 gp)
Caparison (2 gp)
Cooking Powder (2 gp)
Elven Leafblade (40 gp)
Elven Thornblade (60 gp)
Gray Maiden Plate (1,500 gp)
Hellknight Barding (varies)
Hellknight Half-Plate (850 gp)
Hellknight Leather (30 gp)
Hellknight Plate (2,000 gp)
Lantern Honey (150 gp)
Mithral Horseshoes (550 gp)
Nostalgia Oil (80 gp)
Pathfinder Chronicle (50 gp)
Phantom Ash (10 gp)
Sawtooth Sabre (35 gp)
Scarsalve (10 gp)
Signifier Mask (75 gp)
Sparkle Smoke (25 gp)
Spices (varies)
Sunblock Kohl (10 gp)
Tiller's Gum (100 gp)

Why use Strength over Dexterity other than carry capacity reasons?

I need you, /pfg/.

I never got to play a game, so I don't know how that much damage sounds to you.

Level 3, expended 2 Feats, requires a charge attack and expending psionic focus.

3d4+STR+1 +3d6+ STR + 1

Can be improved by two feats later for

5d4+STR+2 +5d6+ STR + 2

Fair buy or trash?

Level 3 WBL is 3k mate.

>Feats
Agile Maiden (Combat)
Al-Zabriti-Trained Horse [Animal Companion]
Aldori Artistry (Combat)
Aldori Dueling Disciple (Combat)
Aldori Dueling Mastery (Combat)
Aldori Style (Combat, Style)
Aldori Style Aegis (Combat, Style)
Aldori Style Conquest (Combat, Style)
Armored Ride
Aspis Partner
Cold Celerity
Cypher Magic
Cypher Script
Devil Sense
Diva Advance (Combat)
Diva Strike (Combat)
Diva Style (Combat, Style)
Duelist of the Roaring Falls (Combat)
Duelist of the Shrouded Lake (Combat)
Eagle's Resolve
Expert Boarder
Extra Spontaneous Spell Mastery
Falcon's Cry
Falling Water Gambit (Combat)
Fanged Crown Massacre
Forceful Charge [Animal Companion]
Garen's Discipline (Combat)
Gray Maiden Initiate
Horse Whisperer
Improved Forceful Charge [Animal Companion]
Improved Horse Whisperer
Improved Mounted Archery
Legionnaire's Inspiration
Mask Focus
Masked by Fear
Masked Intent
Mounted Blade
Mounted Onslaught
Nameless One
Perfect Style (Combat, Style)
Purifying Channel
Redistributed Might (Combat)
Ritual Mask
Rugged Northerner
Scarlet Rose Devotion
Scholar
Sinister Reputation
Siran's Masterstroke (Combat)
Sisterhood Dedication (Combat)
Sisterhood Rampart (Combat)
Sisterhood Style (Combat, Style)
Spirit Beacon
Spirit Rebuke
Spirit Sight
Storm-Lashed
Tag-Team Interrogation (Teamwork)
Tribal Hunter (Combat, Teamwork)
Tribal Scars
Twilight Tattoo
Unblinking Flame Feint (Combat)
Unblinking Flame Fist (Combat)
Unbreakable (Combat)
Unfolding Wind Rush (Combat)
Unfolding Wind Strike (Combat)
Untwisting Iron Skin (Combat)
Untwisting Iron Strength (Combat)

>Focused Arcane School
Deception (Illusion)

>Investigator Talents
Chronicler's Insight
Didactic Strike

>Ioun Stone Resonant Powers
Clear Spindle
Dark Blue Rhomboid
Deep Red Sphere
Dull Gray (Burnt Out)
Dusty Rose Prism
Incandescent Blue Sphere
Iridescent Spindle
Lavender and Green Ellipsoid
Orange Prism
Pale Blue Rhomboid
Pale Green Prism
Pale Lavender Ellipsoid
Pearly White Spindle
Pink and Green Sphere
Pink Rhomboid
Scarlet and Blue Sphere
Vibrant Purple Prism

>Legendary Medium Spirit
The Twice-Damned Prince (Trickster)

>Prestige Classes
Aldori Swordlord
Argent Dramaturge
Asavir
Aspis Agent
Bellflower Tiller
Cyphermage
Death Slayer
Golden Legionnaire
Gray Corsair
Hellknight
Hellknight Signifier
Lantern Bearer
Magaambyan Arcanist
Mammoth Rider
Pathfinder Delver
Pathfinder Savant
Red Mantis Assassin
Rivethun Emissary
Sanguine Angel
Steel Falcon
Storm Kindler
Student of Perfection
Student of War
Twilight Talon
Westcrown Devil

>Psychic Discipline
Rivethun

>Rogue Talents
Aspexia's Mysticism
Careful Stab
Hairpin Trick
Knockout Queen
Silencing Strike

>Rogue Talents (Advanced)
Founder's Blessing
Shrinewalk

>Shaman Spirit
Mammoth

>Vigilante Talent
Team Player

>Wizard Specialization
Thassilonian Wizard

To avoid a petty GM who puts a million STR checks everywhere that are designed simply to waste time.

> STR is easier to boost than DEX is
No it's not.

Urban Barbarian Exists and mutagens can boost dex. We only use those things to boost strength because it had some niche protection.

This pretty much takes away the only incentive to be a strength based character. "Muh two feats" does not cut it, especially since you're most likely going to be a Path of War martial with this feat and those don't really need feats to work.

There's also a bunch of spells and items which are, again, reprints. Or at least some of the items are, the spells might be new.

are these like, erratas?

like lore warden?

>Aldori styles
Aaaaaaaa
>Aldori feats
AAAAAAA
>New and improved Aldori PrC
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

smash from the air
strength drain more common than dex drain
CMB

>smash from the air
Busted feat you can't capitalize on well because no dex
>strength drain more common than dex drain
Trivial
>CMB
Trivial

It is, Str has a much higher upper limit for non casters because of Strength of the Beast and Power of Giants.

>Masked Maiden Vigilante

Oooh, what's this?

Enlarge Person is a better buffing spell than Reduce Person is.

Also, have a bit of a moment that can be taken multiple ways.

And this is why I'm going to revert the Elephant in the room feat tax on Weapon Finesse in games I run, if Deadly Agility grants 1.5x Dex to Damage. That, and let my players pick up some kind of feat that lets them use STR/CON in place of Dexterity for Reflex, Initiative, and AC (1/2 STR/CON mod for the first pick, full STR/CON mod for the second pick), and let the first iteration stack with Brutal Slayer so they still have an edge over others. That's fair, in my view.

Is Valeriya gonna have to change her archetype?

paizo.com/products/btpy9sjo/discuss&page=18?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Adventurers-Guide#880

Reminder that Augunas nerfed the Lore Warden fighter.

Reminder that Augunas also nerfed the wayfinder resonance thingy, ESPECIALLY the clear spindle resonance.

Is Pathfinder getting killed by foxes?

>two situational buff spells you're not even guaranteed
So if you're playing ithPath fo War and want to be strength based pray you play with a vancian caster that specializes in buffing you and will take those specific spells.

That seems REALLY goddamn flimsy.

Those aren't spells those are bloodline powers through eldritch heritage. Look up what you want to disagree with before posting.

>Opalescent White Pyramid escapes nerfs
How's it feel that you can STILL get cheap Weapon Focus, eh?

Yes, and so is the proficiency stone.
So at level 3, you either have the weapon or the proficiency to use it.

I'm sorry every fucking Strength Build is going to need to take a VMC or waste a feat chain on Eldritch Fucking Heritage to justify existing now.

So how much of this book is basically nerfs and errata?

1.5k for the stone.

Jessica Price is a filthy old hag!

I wouldn't want unsubtle /pol/iticle bullshit on my boards either.

You can just admit you started shit posting before knowing what you were talking about.

Every fighter should do this by the way. It's part of the path to 60 Str.

OK, so you're spending your first three levels and a feat getting an EWP. And yeah, three levels of full casting to get a single weapon proficiency for your martial class really's going to work out great.

I will admit that if you're doing Gestalt that does make reasonable sense.

Looks like about half. If someone wants to poke through the full list and map out how much is a reprint, that'd be interesting to see.

paizo.com/products/btpy9sjo/discuss&page=19?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Adventurers-Guide#938

I made a mistake. Sue me. That still doesn't justify strength existing since now you're centralizing builds AND making being strength require more fucking feats and MADness.

I thought fighters wanted high CON now these days, for Item Mastery?

I like being able to, you know, use Acrobatics and Stealth.

Not every challenge is combat, which Strfags are obsessed with.

How is that political bullshit? The guy's taking a popular phrase and adding a spin to it.

This is like getting bitchy because someone said "Stay Calm and Rock On" instead of "Stay Calm and Carry On."

No see it's okay because a Dexterity character has to spend just as many feats!

You're that faggot who made the really overloaded str feats yesterday, aren't you?

I don't really understand the Str/Dex hostility.

Dex does have too many things under its banner. The only things Strength has for it is carrying capacity (something made irrelevant by cheap magic items) and damage. The new deadly agility makes dex nearly a direct replacement to strength with nothing but upsides. Even for skills Str is woefully underrepresented, and worse has essentially no "apply str to this skill" traits. One of the only ones that does it is a fucking feat.

Str needs to be thrown a bone, one besides Big Numbies for damage and Cut from the Air.

And strfags still think damage is the king. When the wizard invalidates combats in one round, how will your swim checks contribute out of combat?

Here's a simplier STR feat

With your mighty thews you are able to deflect even magical touch attacks because you're so fucking manly

Strength calculates AC if it is higher than Dexterity.

Bam.

It needs the same thing as dex has when it comes to STR based rolls: Feats, features and what not that allow you to replace dex mods with str.

The creature starting these arguments has regeneration 5 (acid or fire).

I am, and I'm reworking them for my own home games.

Personally I think the PoW change to Deadly Agility makes sense if looked at from the context where you insert PoW into a standard PFS-style ruleset instead of a feat tax ruleset.

So there seems to be a lot of Strength/Dex discussion again today. Some of my thoughts on it are the following:

Combat Statistics:
>Strength -> Initiative
This would be called Muscle Memory and be a single feat. We have a precedent from Noble Scion that replacing a stat for initiative is one feat. It would require 13 Str and in exchange for no bonus on knowledge skills it could be taken any level.
>Strength -> Fort Saves
This one is harder to pin down as feats such as Steadfast Personality, which only gives Cha to Will against mind-affecting effects. However, mind-affecting effects make up a majority of all will saves. I would say similar coverage should be under one feat. You need to decide some gap. Fatigue, Exhaustion, Sicken, Nauseated, Disease, Poison, Dazed, Stunned, Deafened, Paralyzed, and Petrified all are sometimes Fort saves. If I were to choose the gap I would leave out Petrification and one other, probably Paralyzed. Call it Strength of Body.
>Strength -> Natural Armor
This one I would be much more willing to make a two feat chain. The first would be a feat similar to Dodge, one that gives a +2 Natural Armor bonus. This would be +2 as opposed to Dodge's +1 as Natural Armor doesn't apply to Touch AC. The next would give 1/2 Strength bonus to Natural Armor. They would be called "Shielding Bulk" and "Toughened Muscle".
>Strength -> Spell Casting
This one is honestly something I simply want because I think it's cool. It would be a subdomain of Strength and replace your casting stat with strength.
>Strength -> Reflex Saves
This is another that would come down to feats, similar to Steadfast Personality. The question however is what should it apply to. The problem is that reflex saving throws are almost entirely based around damage. This is one of the things I would be more inclined to lock behind a class feature rather than merely feats.

(1/2)

No

I think the deadly agility changes are better for the game in all areas, other than the cucking of twf. All I need now is feats for muscle memory from brutal slayer and I'd call the two stats equal.

Dying to 2 hits from a shadow or something instead of 5+ isn't really trivial.

Muh two feats does cut it if you want to play anything other than human or want to hold off on dipping fighter. Being effective with 1-2 feats is always going to be more preferable that being effective with 3-4 feats when bonus feats are scarce or restrictive.

Skills:
For skills I would mostly make them as traits. The problem with this however is that traits are a hot commodity due to limited selection within categories. That makes someone who wants to take Extra Traits to get more Str based skills essentially constricted of choosing only a few from the columns. Honestly in a perfect world Extra Traits would not have the same restriction normal trait selection does. That would be my fix.

Strength -> Intimidate (already a thing, but moved down to a trait)
Strength -> Crafting (Only metal called Hammerer)
Strength -> Heal (Called Bone Setter)
Strength -> UMD (Called Forceful Activation)
Strength -> Handle Animal (Called Stern Discipline)
Strength -> Escape Artist (It breaks what ever you escape from, called Shackle Breaker)
Strength -> Disable Device (Breaks what ever you're disabling, called Trap Smasher)
Strength -> Ride (Called Forceful Rider)
Strength -> Acrobatic (Called Strong Leaper)
Strength -> Perform (but only Act/Dance/Percussion called Mighty Performance)
Strength -> Fly (called Powerful Wings)
Strength -> Diplomacy (Only for humanoids of savage cultures and non-humanoids, called Impressive Physique)
Strength -> Profession (Called 'Hard Day's Labor', only applies to certain professions such as Farmer, Miner, Miller, Soldier, Woodcutter, etc.)

Besides these I don't really see a lot of others making easy sense as we don't want to end up with a Wisdom of the Flesh scenario, which I consider just a poorly made trait.

Oh come now, user! We both know muscles are not only unsightly, they get in the way of being effective in movement or being a slender, attractive low-wis character!

I'd go a step farther, and argue the two should never meet. They're different ways of making martials better. You don't need both. PoW characters should have to pay their taxes.

Oh yeah because 90% of campaigns are going to include those.

I have posted these lists before, but has since added a few things to them.

Either way these are hard to balance as stat switches are almost always hard to balance. For skills they are much easier, but derived combat stats, such as Initiative, AC, Damage, Saving Throws, etc. make life hard. There isn't really a good answer for this other than redesigning how stats work at their base.

The distribution of skills and derived stats beed to be fixed with more importance placed on some than others.

app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/77276/pilgrimage-to-the-demonlands

Since nobody posted it in this thread yet

I hope the PLD cast have fun today

Shadows target touch AC.

Strfags suck at touch AC.

>Strength -> Fort Saves
Eh. That's something that would just be a basic part of the system if you were going to make a new modern game based on d20. There's little reason for Strength and Constitution to be different ability scores.

Honestly, if the only way to get 1.5 dex was through that one swashbuckler archetype, I would be perfectly fine with that. With so many things scaling off dex, why would anyone want dex to do even MORE damage?

So is this Final Fantasy X or Tales of Symphonia?

Can I be Colette, pretty please? Everyone loves Colette.

I literally have not played any of the Tales games.

also

>Colette

THIS TRIGGERS ME

>colette
Literally worst girl

Since when did Deadly Agility change?

I'll be upset if there's no pure messiah archetypical character or a noblesse oblige princely type.

Today.

What's wrong with Colette?

I would disagree.

Let us look at the six ability scores and their, at base, derived statistics:

>Strength
Melee Damage, Melee Hit, Carrying Capacity
>Dexterity
Armor, Initiative, Reflex Saving Throws, Ranged Hit
>Constitution
Fortitude Saves, Health
>Intelligence
Skill Ranks
>Wisdom
Will Saving Throws
>Charisma
None

Now with minimal investment these get added to certain groups:
>Dexterity
Melee Hit, Melee Damage
>Charisma
Some Will Saving Throws, Initiative
>Wisdom
Melee Hit

These are through weapon enchantments and feats, rather than class features. Charisma, for having nothing at base has by far the best class feature support.

Now, how would one distribute these to make it fair? One idea is the 5e route and making more saving throws. One is 4e and making it "the best of two" saving throws. Initiative, as it is done now, makes it hard to move around, along with AC, and thus has stayed in place.

One of the biggest offenders in my opinion are skills and skill ranks. Being dumb means you don't know how to climb a tree, due to a lack of skill ranks. It has always struck me as odd that Int governs the total and not instead each gives you ranks for skills governed by that stat.

Through 5e's way of consolidating skills and making it proficiency numbers based on class, not by Int score, does help solve this issue as well.

All in all, Pathfinder is a mess. I think this explantation got away from me.

>throwing weapon user

WATER
BALLOON
FIGHTER

Give me a link, senpai. Did the errata finally come out?